Summary

We don’t lose innovation because we lack tools; we lose it when we rush strategy and skip the human conversations that change everything.

In this episode of the Courageous Leadership podcast, Jane Clay, Principal and Strategy Director at Gensler London and a globally respected workplace strategist, shares how to use workplace strategy, communication and storytelling to transform projects rather than just deliver them.

You’ll hear how Jane:

• Treats strategy as “the job before the job” to shape briefs that genuinely support culture, performance and wellbeing.
• Diagnoses ambiguous client asks and pattern‑matches cultural, financial and spatial challenges into a clear, living vision.
• Uses deep engagement, playful experimentation and thoughtful change management to turn resistance into ownership.

This is perfect for architects, designers, workplace strategists and clients who:

• Are tired of “safe, normal” projects that deliver average results.
• Want better ways to pull clients back from “I want this product” to the deeper why.
• Suspect compressing the strategy phase is costing them innovation, trust and real impact.

Key insights:

• Why admitting “I don’t have all the answers” is a powerful leadership move.
• How poor communication and hidden assumptions quietly derail projects.
• Practical tactics for designing communication into your process from day one.
• What happens when you blow up and repack a brief, and keep strategy alive through delivery . . . .
• How story, soul, chaos and personality can be curated to unlock creativity in teams.

Chapters:
00:00 – Communication as a core leadership superpower
02:22 – Vulnerability and asking for help in leadership
03:13 – The design strategist’s role as “the job before the job”
04:54 – Continuous learning, unlearning and strategic rethinking
06:22 – Innovation through blowing up and repacking ideas
07:39 – Drawing, storytelling and visual communication in design
10:06 – McCann case study: flexible office, subcultures and narrative
12:15 – Inclusive, story‑driven client engagement
17:13 – Designing process deliberately in creative projects
22:12 – Navigating conflict and resistance through better conversations
30:29 – Setting expectations and aligning assumptions early
33:11 – Curating strategy and trust over long‑term projects
41:33 – Avoiding process‑driven, soulless design
44:21 – Harnessing chaos and personality for innovation
46:04 – Leadership as a blend of strategy, storytelling, chaos and communication

Workplace strategy, leadership communication, design process, change management, innovation in architecture, client engagement, narrative‑driven design, future of work, culture‑led projects, creative team leadership.

Useful links

Gensler Workplace Strategy

https://www.gensler.com/research-topic-work-and-the-workplace

Jane Clay - LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-clay-a1b65816/

In this episode, Caroline Harper shares her career journey from geography student to urban regeneration leader and managing director at Be First, the London Borough of Barking & Dagenham’s urban regeneration agency. Her dreams of building a city and her determination to end homelessness. Highlighting the importance of persistence, finding allies, strategic thinking, managing expectations, avoiding micro-management at all costs and pursuing open doors - because you don’t know whether you'll get those opportunities again. 

Key Topics

Career milestones to rise to managing director

The role of social value in city planning

Building effective public-private partnerships

Bringing people with you

Innovative approaches to affordable housing

Shaping a new part of London

Planning long-term in market unpredictability

Key Insights

Leadership involves empowering teams and trusting professionals.

Strategic partnerships are essential for large-scale regeneration.

Dealing with market challenges

Innovation in housing requires bold policy and financial incentives.

Bold urban regeneration needs new business models

Resilience and adaptability are key to career success.

Chapters

00:00

Humble Beginnings: Career Milestones

06:18

Persistence and Relentlessness in Leadership

12:09

Navigating Academia and Corporate Worlds

19:06

Transitioning to B-First: Building a City

25:05

Leadership Style: Coaching and Directness

32:25

Introduction to B First and Its Unique Model

35:20

Transitioning to a New Business Model

39:56

Dealing with the Current Market Challenges

43:48

Placemaking and Community Engagement

49:08

Industry Insights and Future Changes

55:49

Courage and Risk in Leadership

In this conversation, Tania Ihlenfeld speaks with Abb-d Taiyo, a creative strategist and co-founder of DriftTime, about the complexities of progress, the importance of resilience, and the ethical responsibilities of design. 

"Progress is messy. It's painful. It's difficult."

We discuss Abb-d’s career twists and turns, from musician to founder of DriftTime, an impact-first design agency. We discuss the challenges of working with clients to create meaningful impact, the need for emotional investment in projects, the significance of building strong client relationships, and why failure is the path to progress.  

Abb-d highlights the importance of building trust and credibility in campaigns, as well as the evolution of the Design Declares movement, which aims to address climate emergencies through design. We also explore how to drive impact by diving into some of his most successful campaigns, the challenges of sustainable design, the role of AI in enhancing creative processes, and the need for greater access and recognition within the design industry. 

Key insights

Progress is inherently messy and requires resilience.

Emotional investment in projects is crucial for success.

Failure is a necessary part of the creative process.

Building trust with clients is essential for impactful work.

Design should serve a greater purpose beyond aesthetics.

Navigating bureaucracy can hinder project progress.

Incremental improvements can lead to significant change.

Selecting the right clients is vital for ethical design.

Collaboration and partnership enhance project outcomes.

Creative expression should not be misrepresented as evidence.

Rapid execution of branding and web presence can lead to significant traction.

Bringing polarised communities together requires understanding and empathy.

Sustainable design education is crucial for the future of the industry.

AI can enhance design processes, but should be used intentionally and ethically.

Values alignment is key to successful client-agency relationships.

True impact metrics should focus on real-world outcomes, not just financial valuations.

Difficult conversations are necessary for progress in sustainable design.

Resilience and conviction are vital for aspiring change-makers.

Chapters

00:00

The Messy Nature of Progress

01:58

The Journey of Abdi Tayo

05:48

Navigating Career Pivots

09:57

The Birth of DriftTime

17:04

Defining Impact and Purpose

24:05

Building Relationships with Clients

30:06

Challenges and Successes in Impact Projects

37:09

Building Trust and Credibility in Campaigns

42:10

The Evolution of Design Declares

46:29

Navigating the Challenges of Sustainable Design

52:15

The Role of AI in Design

56:50

Envisioning Change in the Design Industry

01:07:11

Advice for Aspiring Change-Makers

Courage Shorts are designed to give you short, sharp courage and inspiration boosts.

Because we all need a boat from time to time.

Tania Ihlenfeld shares her journey from a shy background to leading large teams and now her own business, emphasising the importance of perspective and leadership evolution.

You’ll also hear the mission behind the podcast and hopefully be inspired to engage with the incredible leaders interviewed in the show.

Key insights

The importance of perspective and inspiration

Supporting emerging leaders and creating impact

Shyness is not an obstacle.

Leadership is a journey of continuous evolution.

Inspiring others and creating impact.

Chapters

00:00

Introduction to Courageous Leadership Podcast

01:58

The Mission Behind the Podcast

06:19

Leadership is a journey of continuous evolution.

By hearing real stories and scenarios of how and when awe-inspiring leaders have applied courage. So we can see what’s possible for ourselves in our specific corner of the built environment. Be inspired to take bold action to move yourself and our industry forward.

In this conversation, Danna Walker, an award-winning electrician-turned-architect and founder of Built by Us, discusses the lack of leadership training in the construction industry and the imperative of diversity and inclusion in the built environment. She shares her experiences with microaggressions and the challenges faced by underrepresented groups. The conversation highlights the need for systemic change and the role of architecture in social justice. Danna emphasises the importance of mentorship, advocacy, and organisational support in fostering an inclusive environment and the game-changing effects of adopting new leadership styles. We also explore workplace dynamics, how to navigate challenging conversations, finding allies and the courage required for personal growth.

Key insights

An inclusive leadership style can transform the industry.

Change makers are essential for driving progress.

Diversity and inclusion are crucial for productivity.

Built by Us aims to connect untapped talent to careers.

The architecture industry has a long way to go in terms of diversity.

Microaggressions can significantly impact individuals in the workplace.

Socioeconomic background influences career opportunities.

Architecture can play a vital role in social change.

Finding ways to influence change outside traditional practices is important. 

Change makers within practice can nudge things forward.

Support for individuals returning to work is crucial.

COVID-19 has shifted conversations around flexible working.

Diversity discussions often become diluted and need depth.

Inclusive management training is lacking in the industry.

Challenging conversations are essential for progress.

Understanding communication styles is key to influence.

Mentorship can transform individuals and organisations.

Chapters

00:00

The Need for Leadership Training in Construction

03:13

Dana Walker's Journey and the Birth of Built by Us

06:07

Challenges in the Built Environment: Diversity and Inclusion

09:00

Navigating the Architecture Industry: A Personal Perspective

11:46

From Trade to Architecture: Breaking Barriers

15:07

Experiences of Isolation and Microaggressions

17:59

The Impact of Socioeconomic Background on Career Paths

21:11

The Role of Architecture in Social Change

24:04

Transitioning from Education to Practice

26:57

Finding Influence Outside Traditional Practice

32:10

Navigating Change in Practice

33:53

Building Supportive Programs for Career Returnees

35:46

The Impact of COVID-19 on Workplace Conversations

39:05

Adapting Communication for Inclusive Leadership

41:27

The Need for Inclusive Management Training

44:16

The Importance of Challenging Conversations

53:39

Courage and Personal Growth in Leadership

01:01:11

Facilitating Change and Connection

In this conversation, Amar Hanspal, co-founder and CEO of Motif, speaks about his leadership journey at Autodesk, where he rose to co-CEO, and about initiating the next generation of AEC startups. We discuss the challenges of transforming company culture, the importance of learning from failure, and the role of AI in the future of the built environment. Amar shares insights on driving change and the significance of strategy, simplicity, and effective team building. We explore why and where leaders should be prioritising their time and surrounding themselves with supportive and experienced individuals. i.e., choose your friends carefully!

Key insights

Large companies operate like battleships, turning slowly.

Surround yourself with supportive and experienced individuals.

Wisdom is rare; seek genuine insights.

Empathy is crucial in leadership and management.

Failure often teaches more than success.

Small wins are essential for driving big changes.

Urgency is key in large organisations.

Knowledge encoding is the next leap in design.

AI should augment human capabilities, not replace them.

Impact is the primary motivation for ambitious projects. 

Strategy is crucial when transitioning from corporate to startup.

Simplicity accelerates speed and scalability in business.

Customer feedback is essential for product improvement.

Building effective teams requires understanding individual strengths.

Culture is shaped by the people you hire and their actions.

AI is revolutionising industries and lowering barriers to entry.

Listening and synthesising feedback are vital skills for leaders.

Sales can be challenging, especially for those from non-sales backgrounds.

Creating a positive work culture involves aligning actions with values.

Courageous leadership is supported by a strong network of advisors.

Chapters

00:00

Navigating Large Organizations

02:53

The Journey of Leadership

05:49

Transforming Company Culture

09:05

Lessons from Failure

11:55

Driving Change in Large Companies

14:47

Building New Businesses

18:07

The Startup Mindset

20:52

Innovating in the Building Industry

24:11

The Role of AI in Architecture

27:03

Leadership Lessons and Future Vision

33:05

Translating Corporate Lessons to Startups

36:46

Building Effective Teams and Culture

41:52

The Importance of Customer Feedback

47:37

Navigating Sales and Customer Relationships

51:56

Creating a Positive Company Culture

55:46

The Role of AI in the Future of Industry

01:03:42

Courageous Leadership and Building Networks

In this conversation, Chris Williamson, RIBA president, discusses the importance of curiosity and finding people who will help you get to the next level. We explore how curiosity drives personal and professional growth, the influence of early life experiences, and the challenges of running an architecture practice. Chris emphasises the need for collaboration, the relentless pursuit of success, and the role of courageous leadership in navigating the industry's complexities. We also touch on the significance of lifelong learning, adapting to the evolving landscape of architecture and his vision for the future. Chris speaks passionately about the need for regulation of architectural functions rather than titles, and the value of diverse backgrounds and routes into the profession. 

Key insights

Curiosity is essential for lifelong learning and growth.

You owe it to yourself to have a go.

You can become good at anything; you learn from everything you do.

Find 5 people who can help you elevate.

Setbacks can lead to new opportunities if approached with curiosity.

Early life influences shape our perspectives.

Courageous leadership is necessary for effective management.

Building relationships and networks is vital for success.

Balancing design and business is a constant challenge.

The title of architect should also come with regulated functions.

We need to open up different avenues for entering the profession.

Architects should be able to transfer skills across borders.

Women bring a unique perspective to architecture. 

Good architecture can significantly impact mental and physical health.

Courage and passion are key attributes to being a business leader.

Chapters

00:00

The Journey of Curiosity and Growth

02:47

The Importance of Mentorship and Support

06:07

Curiosity as a Driving Force

08:58

Influences from Childhood and Early Life

11:56

Navigating the Architecture Profession

14:58

The Role of Collaboration in Success

18:04

The Challenges of Running a Practice

20:55

Learning from Setbacks and Opportunities

23:49

The Relentless Pursuit of Success

26:58

Courageous Leadership in Architecture

30:01

Building Relationships and Networks

32:56

The Balance of Design and Business

35:50

The Future of Architecture and Lifelong Learning

43:25

Embracing Urgency and Optimism

44:15

The Architect's Title and Its Implications

45:12

Campaigning for Change in Architecture

46:39

Lifelong Learning and Professional Development

51:05

Regulating Function Over Title

54:37

Diversity in Architectural Backgrounds

57:39

Transferring Skills Across Borders

01:00:02

The Importance of Lifelong Learning

01:01:50

The Role of Women in Architecture

01:04:42

Personal Projects and Community Impact

01:06:39

The Built Environment's Influence on Wellbeing

01:09:56

Optimism for the Future of Architecture

01:13:15

Courage and Passion in Architecture