Alison Sutherland has moved through nearly every seat at the MDT table — CPS investigator, forensic interviewer, victim advocate, juvenile court liaison, Children's Advocacy Center educator, and founder of the prevention organization Prevention Starts with Parents. She and Robert dig into her earliest days as a Georgia DFCS investigator, the sensory core memories that never fade, and the situational-awareness lessons — meth pipes, an unexpected shotgun — that came from learning on the job. They also unpack how minimal facts interviewing actually works, why so much CPS training misses the mark, and why the systemic problems of the 1980s still look a lot like 2026. Also: a Jesus juke, a live AI-generated banter question, and Alison's lasting grudge against a two-day training called Verbal Judo.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of child sexual abuse, incest, sibling-on-sibling sexual abuse, child abuse and neglect, substance abuse, and exposure to firearms in the home.

Key moments

• 0:00 — Cold open and introducing Alison Sutherland

• 05:30 — The courtroom sentencing that became a core memory

• 08:10 — What drew her into child protection work

• 13:10 — The hardest part of CPS: the limits of your power

• 21:20 — The "dirty house" story: pot-bellied pigs, Pack 'n Plays, and a career-defining moment

• 32:40 — Guns, meth, and the situational-awareness lesson that stuck

• 37:10 — Why CPS training doesn't prepare workers for the job

• 50:10 — Why the problems of the 1980s look identical to 2026

• 54:20 — The backyard moment that led to Prevention Starts with Parents

• 59:40 — Sibling-on-sibling abuse and the limits of "just investigate"

• 1:07:10 — Minimal facts interviewing, explained

Want to learn more?

• Explore Alison's free resources at Prevention Starts with Parents, including guides on sextortion prevention and talking with your child about disclosure.

• For more training, our free Justice in 30 webinars, and CaseReady MDT simulations, visit coursingjustice.com.

Full transcript and show notes available at coursingjustice.com/podcast. Note: transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors.

Debbie Garner spent eight years as Special Agent in Charge of the GBI's Child Exploitation and Computer Crimes Unit and Georgia ICAC Task Force commander, with 2,500+ arrests to her name. In this emergency episode, she joins Robert to unpack the Seventh Circuit's Anderegg decision, holding that private possession of AI-generated CSAM is protected by the First Amendment. They trace the doctrine through Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition and New York v. Ferber, and explain why the "market substitute" theory misreads offender psychology and ignores new evidence that CSAM has entered AI training data. Also: an AI-generated Dr. Seuss send-up of Ashcroft, a defense of the "nerd cop," and a closing Lord of the Rings quote.

Content note: This episode discusses child sexual abuse material (CSAM), AI-generated CSAM, child sexual exploitation, and grooming, in more depth than our regular programming. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Key moments

• 0:00 — Cold open and introducing Debbie Garner

• 3:00 — Meet Debbie Garner: former GBI ICAC Task Force commander, 2,500+ arrests

• 8:00 — Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition strikes down the ban on "virtual" child pornography

• 13:00 — The Anderegg decision: why this is about possession, not production

• 15:00 — Debbie corrects the misleading headlines about the ruling

• 18:00 — Justice Thomas's 2002 warning: "that day may have arrived"

• 22:00 — Taking apart the "market for CSAM" argument at the center of Ashcroft

• 26:00 — Debbie: real CSAM "is becoming more violent, the victims are becoming younger" — and so is the AI-generated kind

• 32:00 — CSAM found inside AI training datasets, and the "no real child" assumption

• 43:00 — Thorn and Save the Children data on minor-on-minor AI-generated abuse

• 57:00 — Robert's closing argument: "Liberty doesn't require naivete"

Want to learn more?

• Follow Hexordia, where Robert and Debbie both instruct.

• For more training, our free Justice in 30 webinars, and CaseReady MDT simulations, visit coursingjustice.com.

Full transcript and episode resources at coursingjustice.com/podcast. Note: transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors.

Hannah Fordice has worked victim advocacy from nearly every angle — a domestic violence crisis line, victim witness coordination in the courts, and training faith communities on intimate partner violence. She joins Robert to talk about who's cut out for advocacy work and who isn't, the boundaries that keep advocates from burning out, and why domestic violence cases are so often under-investigated and under-prosecuted. Also: savior complexes, nonprofit board dysfunction, and what it's like to be an advocate married to a cop.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of domestic violence, intimate partner violence, child abuse, sexual assault, and spiritual abuse.

Key moments

• 0:00 — Cold open and introducing Hannah Fordice

• 03:40 — How a crisis line internship changed Hannah's career trajectory

• 13:30 — Who's cut out for advocacy work, and who isn't

• 22:10 — Boundaries: what advocates need to avoid

• 29:30 — Codependency, savior complex, and the advocate who has to be the helper

• 36:30 — Unhealthy nonprofit environments, funding competition, and burnout

• 49:50 — Advocacy and law enforcement: different training, different mandates

• 55:40 — Why DV cases are under-investigated and under-prosecuted

• 1:00:30 — The "press charges" myth, recantation, and no-drop policies

• 1:08:40 — Autonomy vs. accountability

Want to learn more?

• Take Hannah's course, Godly Response to Intimate Partner Violence.

• For more training, our free Justice in 30 webinars, and CaseReady MDT simulations, visit coursingjustice.com.

Full transcript and episode resources at coursingjustice.com/podcast. Note: transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors.

Detective Brandon Poor has spent 20 years in law enforcement, including a decade-plus investigating crimes against children and building his department's ICAC unit. He joins Robert to talk about integrity as the foundation of police work, why CSAM cases are wrongly treated as victimless, what he wishes other MDT members understood about the detective's role, and the two-minute decision that proved a child was telling the truth. Also: opera, jujitsu, and a live reaction to an AI-generated theme song.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of child sexual abuse, child sexual abuse material, child exploitation, child death and homicide investigations, and suicide.

Key moments

• 0:00 — Cold open and introducing Detective Brandon Poor

• 05:30 — Integrity as the core ingredient

• 12:50 — Following evidence toward the powerful, and the case a DA wouldn't charge

• 14:50 — Standing on shoulders: mentors, giants, and the people no one knows about

• 19:50 — Law enforcement as a vocation: "if you can do anything else, you should"

• 28:40 — Probation for CSAM offenders, and the myth of the victimless crime

• 40:00 — Why Catfish Cops started: taking the prey away from the predator

• 46:30 — Compartmentalization, humor, and the line before repression

• 53:40 — What detectives want other MDT members to know

• 1:06:00 — There's always a crime scene: the dumpster photo

• 1:10:30 — Faith, prevention, and why "risk mitigation is not prevention"

Want to learn more?

• Explore our training catalog for courses on child abuse investigation and prosecution.

• For more training, our free Justice in 30 webinars, and CaseReady MDT simulations, visit coursingjustice.com.

Full transcript and episode resources at coursingjustice.com/podcast. Note: transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors.