Crazy Wisdom

In this episode of the Crazy Wisdom Podcast, host Stewart Alsop sits down with Daniel Segundo to discuss why today's social networks have evolved into entertainment networks and how Daniel is building Bien, a social app focused on depth over breadth. Daniel shares his journey from trading commodities to creating a platform designed to keep users genuinely connected to their inner circle, inspired by insights gained while meditating in caves in India. The conversation covers everything from the problems with the "like button" and algorithmic feeds to Daniel's contrarian approach of removing public-facing engagement metrics and using voice notes as the primary interaction method. They also explore the challenges of building consumer social products, the impact of AI on development, and Daniel's philosophy drawn from Eastern mysticism and his study of Ramana Maharshi. To learn more about Bien, visit bien.social or follow Daniel on Twitter at @DanielPSegundo.

Timestamps

00:00 Daniel introduces Bien as a real social network, contrasting entertainment networks disguised as social platforms
05:00 Building with AI tools allowed bootstrapping the app before hiring a five-person team for professional development
10:00 Social networks evolved into entertainment networks optimized for engagement and advertising rather than genuine connection
15:00 The advertising model incentivizes dopamine delivery and algorithmic content over posts from actual friends
20:00 Removing the like button and public comments forces deeper interaction through private voice notes instead
25:00 Social graphs become stale over time because unfriending feels awkward, so people curate for weakest relationships
30:00 Matrix and Nostr protocols enable interoperable messaging, suggesting a Cambrian explosion of new social apps
35:00 Depth matters more than metrics—success means users actually feel closer to their inner circle
40:00 Voice notes combined with photo sharing mimics natural storytelling behavior when friends gather in person
45:00 Meditation in Ramana Maharshi's caves in India inspired reflections on silence, self-inquiry, and building products mindfully

Key Insights

1. Daniel Segundo was inspired to create Bien after recognizing that existing social networks excel at breadth but fail at depth of connections. While meditating in caves in South India, he went through his phone contacts and realized only about 5 percent of his 1,700 contacts were people he actually wanted to stay close to, with the remaining 95 percent being noise. He saw that tools like Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp have solved the problem of maintaining surface-level relationships across broad networks of people, but there was no good tool for maintaining deep connections with your inner circle beyond basic messaging apps like iMessage or WhatsApp, which still suffer from having too many contacts with access.
2. The fundamental problem with current social networks is that they have become entertainment networks rather than true social networks, driven by the advertising business model. Instagram only shows content from your actual friends about 7 percent of the time, with the rest being algorithmically suggested content designed to maximize engagement and ad revenue. The like button, while useful for maintaining broad social graphs and understanding your status in larger groups, reduces complex human relationships to superficial interactions. This creates what Segundo calls a circus-like experience where you are constantly bombarded with entertaining content rather than meaningful updates from people you care about, and the advertising model incentivizes this transformation because the product is ultimately about delivering dopamine to keep people scrolling.
3. Bien removes traditional social media features like public likes and comments, replacing them with private voice note responses capped at 60 seconds. The theory is that hearing three voice notes from close friends provides more genuine connection than receiving 300 likes on a post. This design choice stems from recognizing that while the like button serves a useful function for breadth-first social networks where people want quick validation from large peer groups, it is completely inadequate for depth-first relationships. By forcing more intimate and effortful interaction through voice, Bien attempts to upgrade the quality of connection rather than the quantity, building off existing habits like sending voice notes to close friends rather than trying to create entirely new behaviors.
4. The traditional follower-following model creates stale social graphs because people are uncomfortable unfriending or unfollowing others as relationships naturally evolve over time. Instead of this model, Bien uses a system where each user maintains a private list of people they want to stay close to, and if two people have each other on their lists, they see each other's content. This eliminates the social awkwardness of unfriending someone while allowing social graphs to naturally evolve. The current model forces people to curate their sharing based on the weakest relationship in their network because they do not want to offend distant connections or go through the work of managing close friends lists, which results in less authentic sharing overall.
5. Segundo is building Bien on a paid subscription model rather than an advertising model to align incentives directly with users. He believes no one can build a compelling social network on the advertising model anymore because it creates conflicting incentives where the company must serve both advertisers and users, ultimately degrading the product into what he calls slop. The straightforward deal with customers is that if the product cannot provide value equivalent to the price of a cup of coffee per month through premium features, then there is no justification for the business to exist. This allows Bien to focus solely on whether users feel closer to their inner circle after using the product rather than optimizing for maximum scrolling time.
6. Segundo bootstrapped the initial development of Bien using AI coding tools like Replit before hiring a team of five people to develop it professionally. He notes that with current AI tooling, if you can think clearly and understand the problems you are trying to solve, you can build solutions much more cheaply than even five or ten years ago. He eventually hired a designer and iOS and web developers to do things properly with a do it right or do not do it at all mindset. The app is currently iOS-only, built in Swift for a premium experience, with plans to potentially build a React Native version for Android if there are stronger signs of product market fit.
7. Segundo's background in trading commodities and futures, along with his deep interest in Eastern philosophy and self-inquiry practices, significantly influences his approach to building Bien. He spent time studying Ramana Maharshi and practicing meditation in caves at Tiruvannamalai in South India, which he says has a profound impact not just on spiritual practice but on thinking about product development and participating in markets. His experience with a major trading drawdown in 2025 after running up a small account 25 times led him to this period of reflection that ultimately resulted in the conception of Bien, demonstrating how his various interests in trading, philosophy, and technology intersect in his approach to building a depth-first social network.

In this episode of the Crazy Wisdom Podcast, host Stewart Alsop sits down with TJ Marbois, founder of Tobiko, for a wide-ranging conversation that spans LLMs, data sovereignty, knowledge management tools like Obsidian, and Terence McKenna's ideas about an increasingly weird future. They explore how AI is simultaneously centralizing power through data control while decentralizing software development capabilities, allowing more people to build their own tools and escape big tech ecosystems. Drawing on his experience at Apple's special projects group (the team that built the iPod and later iPhones), TJ discusses his vision for personal AI assistants—what he calls the "R2-D2 belongs to you" principle—where advanced technology serves individuals rather than corporations. The conversation touches on everything from quantum encryption and local manufacturing with ESP32 microcontrollers to the economics of future society, biometric data unions, and why distributed trust matters more than ever as we approach what both describe as an increasingly strange technological inflection point. Visit Tobiko's site at tobiko-pbc.ghost.io


Timestamps

00:00 Stewart introduces TJ Marbois from Tobiko, discussing LLMs, data sovereignty, knowledge management, and the tension between centralization and decentralization in AI
05:00 TJ explains the R2-D2 belongs to you concept and why personal AI assistants need maternal alignment, caring about humans like mothers care for children
10:05 Discussion of how LLMs will shrink and improve while emphasizing the sentient loop concept for building loyal personal AI agents rather than corporate controlled systems
15:00 Exploring digital nervous systems for humanity, social networks as infrastructure, and humans as cavemen with iPhones navigating unprecedented technological complexity
20:00 TJ discusses data unions for sovereign data ownership, inverting insurance models where AI helps extend healthspan, and maximizing truth seeking through collective data
25:30 Money as social construct, crypto enabling value system reengineering, and working toward Star Trek's post scarcity replicator economy from the ground up
30:40 Capital formation challenges, corporatism versus true capitalism, and pessimism about current systems reaching limits while seeking new models
35:00 Solar power democratization, ESP32 microcontrollers enabling local manufacturing, and the replicator future through distributed maker communities and open source robotics
40:00 Science fiction as roadmap, Isaac Asimov and Arthur C Clarke warnings, and building collaborative futures rather than centrally controlled dystopias with useless eaters
45:00 Encyclopedia to LLM transition, information quality concerns, local training importance, and NVIDIA's incentive to put GPUs everywhere for personal AI agents
50:00 Corrupted financial incentives, protecting vulnerable people from technological exploitation, and benevolent technologists building systems that honor humanity and children
55:00 Hardware validation for owned robots, Starlink dependencies, assembly language abstraction toward natural language programming, and preventing AI escape scenarios
58:00 Tobiko as AI toy company building sentient loop interactions similar to Xerox PARC GUI moment, emphasizing maternal AI alignment and cross cultural human collaboration

Key Insights

1. The concept of R2D2 belonging to you represents a critical vision for the future of artificial intelligence and personal technology. When thinking about robots and AI assistants that follow us around and know everything about us, the question of ownership becomes paramount. These systems will know incredibly intimate details about our lives, from our health data to our daily habits, and if they are controlled by centralized corporations or governments rather than individuals, we lose fundamental sovereignty over our own information. The science fiction of Star Wars and Star Trek provides roadmaps for how we should think about these technologies, showing us both the positive possibilities and the warnings we need to heed about centralized control.
2. Local AI models and distributed computing represent a pathway to technological sovereignty that is becoming increasingly viable. While large language models currently run primarily in centralized data centers, the technology is rapidly advancing toward a future where powerful models can run locally on personal computers and devices. This shift is crucial because it means individuals can have full control over their AI assistants without relying on API calls to external servers. Combined with open source infrastructure and open weight models, this creates the foundation for truly personal AI that cannot be controlled or monitored by external parties, whether corporations or governments.
3. Data unions and collective data ownership offer an alternative model to current centralized data collection practices. Rather than having individual data harvested by large tech companies who profit from it, the concept of data unions suggests people could collectively pool their data for specific beneficial purposes while maintaining ownership and control. For example, in healthcare, millions of people could share anonymized biometric data to train medical AI systems that are incentivized to keep people healthy rather than treat them when sick, inverting the current insurance model to align incentives with actual health outcomes rather than profit from illness.
4. The democratization of manufacturing and robotics through accessible technologies like ESP32 microcontrollers and local fabrication tools is creating new possibilities for distributed production. Just as desktop printers seemed impossible to early printers who controlled book production, we are approaching an era where individuals and small communities can manufacture sophisticated electronic devices and robots locally. This includes the ability to use language models to generate code for microcontrollers, order custom PCBs, and use desktop machines for component placement. While high quality manufacturing will still require larger operations, this gradiation of capability allows for much more local innovation and reduces dependence on centralized manufacturing.
5. The concentration of power in technology, finance, and industry has reached levels that are unhealthy for both society and even for those who hold the power. When profit and control become too concentrated in the hands of a few entities, it creates a cancerous dynamic that threatens the stability of the entire system. History shows us warnings about the military industrial complex and other concentrated power structures, and now we are seeing similar patterns emerge in the tech industry. The solution requires building technology from the ground up that empowers individuals and communities, focusing on basics like food production, energy generation, and local manufacturing rather than increasing dependence on centralized systems.
6. The provenance and quality of information is becoming a critical challenge as AI systems become more sophisticated and reality itself becomes harder to verify. We are rapidly approaching a point where video calls and digital interactions will be indistinguishable from AI generated fakes, which is why figures like Sam Altman have invested in systems like Worldcoin to verify human identity. However, this verification capability should not be centralized in the hands of single companies. End to end encryption and quantum encryption technologies need to be preserved and expanded to allow humans to communicate and verify information peer to peer without centralized intermediaries who could manipulate or control the flow of information.
7. The future of human computer interaction is evolving toward sentient loop systems where machines have sensory input, real time learning, context understanding, and continuous operation in service of human needs. Self driving cars represent the first widespread consumer facing example of this architecture, with onboard computers that must function independently while occasionally connecting to networks. The critical question is whether these systems will be aligned to benefit their human users like a caring mother as AI pioneer Geoffrey Hinton suggests, or whether they will be controlled by centralized powers. The technologists building these systems have a responsibility to be benevolent and build structures that serve humanity rather than concentrate power, helping to create a future more like Star Trek than Terminator.

In this episode of Crazy Wisdom, Stewart Alsop sits down with Charlie D. Becker, a second-generation bookseller whose family runs Houston's largest used and rare bookstore, to unpack the viral tweet that had people convinced AI companies were secretly buying up used books to train their models. Charlie walks through what he actually found in his own warehouse orders, why the more likely explanation is old-fashioned reseller arbitrage and FBA "bookjacking" rather than AI training data, and how that story connects to the real, well-documented case of Anthropic scanning and destroying physical books for legal reasons. From there the conversation moves into the difference between rare and valuable books, the discoverability problem in the used book market, historical parallels like palimpsests and lost texts, his own AI tool for used bookstores, and broader questions about wealthy patronage funding independent research and passion projects. For more, check out Charlie's personal site at charliedbecker.com and his Substack at charliebecker.substack.com.

Timestamps

00:00 Stewart introduces Charlie D. Becker, a second generation bookseller building an AI tool for used bookstores and discusses Anthropic's controversial book acquisition practices
05:00 Charlie explains how Anthropic legally destroyed physical books by slicing spines to scan them, avoiding copyright violations while building training datasets for AI models
10:00 Charlie describes receiving bizarre bulk book orders through non-Amazon platforms, initially suspecting AI companies but discovering evidence of sophisticated book arbitrage operations instead
15:00 Discussion of the banal explanation for mysterious orders: algorithmic resellers buying cheap books from obscure platforms to flip on Amazon through FBA warehouses
20:00 Stewart and Charlie explore historical parallels between the printing press era and today's digital transition, discussing the loss of archival records and palimpsests
25:00 Charlie emphasizes the discoverability problem for rare obscure books and how profit-driven algorithms prevent people from finding books unless they know exactly what to search for
30:00 Detailed explanation of Charlie's AI cataloging tool that creates bibliographic profiles from photos of pre-1970 books lacking ISBNs, addressing the hard problem of metadata creation
35:00 Discussion of the technical challenges solved: archival-safe removable stickers, RFID systems, and creating canonical records that become definitive sources for rare books
40:00 Charlie describes building copy-level databases beyond edition-level records, creating VIN numbers for books, and designing knowledge graphs linking works to editions and translations
45:00 Vision for navigable work-edition hierarchies allowing researchers to explore translation genealogies and linguistic families, solving problems Amazon has no incentive to address
50:00 Stewart raises the possibility of returning to gentleman's science and aristocratic private libraries in an age of AI abundance and accessible three-d printing technology
55:00 Charlie reflects on supporting idiosyncratic passion projects regardless of profit, his fellowship from Jim O'Shaughnessy, and navigating economic inequality while promoting eccentric research pursuits

Key Insights

1. Charlie D. Becker is a second generation bookseller whose family runs Houston's largest used and rare bookstore, and he is currently building an AI tool specifically designed for used bookstores. He became widely known after a tweet he wrote about AI companies potentially purchasing books went viral with approximately one and a half million impressions, though he emphasizes the importance of being careful about distinguishing between what he has directly observed, what is on public record, and what is his intuition or speculation about these events.
2. The controversy around Anthropic and book destruction centers on how AI companies acquire training data from physical books. Court documents revealed that Anthropic acquired physical books in mass quantities to scan them, and they were industrially slicing the spines off to make scanning faster and easier. The legal justification for this practice was that because they destroyed the original physical book after scanning it, they were not violating copyright law since no duplicate copy existed alongside the original. A judge ruled this was technically legal, even though it appeared problematic to many observers, because the destruction of the original meant they were not running afoul of copyright provisions about making copies for distribution.
3. Becker received unusual bulk orders for obscure books through a non-Amazon platform in late April, which led him to investigate whether AI companies were responsible for these purchases. However, after analyzing the pattern of purchases and where the books were being shipped, he concluded that a more mundane explanation was likely at work: sophisticated book arbitrage operations. These operations identify books selling cheaply on one platform that could be listed for higher prices on Amazon through Fulfillment by Amazon warehouses, and books that do not sell eventually get recycled or liquidated anyway, meaning rare books are being destroyed through normal commercial operations regardless of whether AI companies are involved.
4. The main technical challenge Becker is solving with his AI tool relates to books printed before 1970, which lack ISBNs or International Standard Book Numbers. Modern book cataloging systems are built around ISBNs, which makes it extremely difficult and time-consuming to catalog older books for online sale since there is no automated way to populate bibliographic data for pre-1970 books. His tool uses computer vision and AI to analyze photographs of book covers, title pages, and copyright pages to automatically generate rich bibliographic metadata, and he has partnered with a PhD AI computer vision specialist to develop this technology over the past year.
5. A surprising discovery during the development of this cataloging tool was that the existing data for many older books is extremely poor, inconsistent, or completely absent from major databases. For approximately a quarter of the books they process, the only existing records might be an incomplete eBay listing from years ago or a sparse entry in WorldCat, the interlibrary database. This means that rather than simply aggregating existing data, they are actually creating canonical records for many books that will become the authoritative source that others reference, essentially building new infrastructure for book metadata rather than just accessing what already exists.
6. Becker advocates strongly for the preservation of obscure and seemingly unimportant books because while they may not have obvious value today, future researchers, tinkerers, or engineers might need them to solve problems we have not yet encountered. He compares this to historical palimpsests where important ancient texts were accidentally preserved when medieval scribes wrote over them, noting that the internet functions more like a palimpsest than an archive since we constantly overwrite and lose information rather than truly preserving it. The current system for deciding which books get preserved or destroyed is essentially random and driven purely by short-term profit motives rather than any thoughtful consideration of potential future value or historical significance.
7. The long-term vision for the project extends beyond simple cataloging to creating a comprehensive knowledge graph that distinguishes between works, editions, and individual copies of books in ways that current commercial platforms do not adequately address. Unlike Goodreads which treats all editions of a book as a single work, or platforms like eBay that only show individual edition listings, Becker envisions a system where users can navigate between different organizational levels and explore the genealogy of works across translations, editions, and languages. The project also aims to create copy-level records similar to what libraries maintain, which would track provenance and availability of specific individual copies rather than just edition-level information, something no commercial platform currently does at scale.

Stewart Alsop sits down with Juan Verhook, founder of Tender Market, for a second conversation that ranges from the mechanics of European public tenders to the future of how we organize digital information. They cover how Tender Market helps smaller companies work around barriers like SOC 2 and ISO certification requirements, the surprising scale of public procurement (roughly 20% of GDP), and how AI and machine learning are reshaping the bidding process. From there the conversation opens up into bigger territory: the changing tolerance for being wrong in an AI-saturated information landscape, how language and culture shape perception, the reverse Turing test and the challenge of verifying human versus AI identity online, and Juan's daily workflow running eight or nine MCP servers through Claude Code. They close out talking about whether the folder and file system will survive the shift to AI-native interfaces, tying back to Stewart's own Stewart Squared episodes on the history of the PC. You can visit Tender Market at tendermarket.eu.

Timestamps

05:00 — Tender Market's origin story and how they help smaller companies work around SOC 2 and ISO certificate barriers.10:00 — Public procurement and its scale, roughly 20% of GDP, plus a look at public-private partnerships.15:00 — Local LLMs on a plane with no Wi-Fi, and comparing local model performance to frontier models.20:00 — Supply versus demand in AI infrastructure and whether hyperscaler token efficiency is quietly improving.25:00 — Whether AI will replace knowledge work tasks, and the shifting reality of what lawyers and other professionals actually do.30:00 — Reverse Turing test, digital identity verification, and the idea of a "pre-AI internet."35:00 — Model poisoning, RLHF, and the difference between pretraining and post-training.40:00 — Interleaved tool calling and how Tender Market ties pricing to task deliverables instead of billable hours.45:00 — RAG versus fine-tuning, prompt engineering, and when context windows actually matter.50:00 — Deterministic programming versus probabilistic agents, and when to build custom tools versus buy existing ones.55:00 — Juan's daily MCP stack (Supabase, GitHub, Calendly, CRM), and whether the folder-and-file system will survive the shift to AI-native interfaces.

Key Insights

1. Certification requirements aren't dead ends—they're routing problems. When smaller companies got rejected from tenders for lacking SOC 2 or ISO certificates, Juan didn't turn them away. He found that EU procurement rules allow bidding as a consortium or subcontracting to a certified partner, turning a disqualifier into a workaround that builds trust with clients.
2. Public procurement is a massive, underexamined market. Roughly 20% of GDP flows through public purchasing of private-sector goods and services, yet most people have no visibility into how tenders work or how governments post and award these contracts.
3. Being wrong has become more socially acceptable. Juan traced this shift to the falling cost of information: in the Stack Overflow era, giving a wrong answer was costly, but now that answers are instant and abundant, both mistakes and corrections happen faster, changing how people learn and communicate.
4. Task-based pricing beats hourly billing for AI-era services. Rather than charging per hour, Tender Market prices around the deliverable, winning a tender, which avoids the perverse incentive of hourly billing to be inefficient and instead rewards actually solving the client's problem.
5. RAG and fine-tuning solve different problems. RAG helps a model reference large documents without hitting context limits, while fine-tuning changes a model's internal weights so it learns new behavior or style. Juan noted that true RAG use cases needing thousands of pages of context are rarer than the hype suggests.
6. Deterministic code should replace repeated LLM calls once a pattern is found. Stewart described his own workflow: solve a task with an LLM a handful of times, then convert the repeated pattern into deterministic software so tokens are no longer spent on it, freeing the model for genuinely new problems.
7. AI agents are never truly autonomous. Both hosts agreed that no matter how many steps an agent chains together, a human operator always initiates the first prompt, meaning accountability and intent trace back to a person even in multi-agent systems.

In this episode, Stewart Alsop sits down with Mark Quadros, founder of GrowthOG and former link-building agency owner, for a wide-ranging conversation covering the state of Facebook ads and paid marketing, the decline of traditional SEO and backlink building in the age of AI, how Google and Cloudflare are jockeying for position as AI search reshapes the internet, and the messy economics of AI-generated video versus real footage (including Mark's work with Google Omni and Epidemic Sounds). They also get into monetization shifts across YouTube, Substack, and TikTok, the "reality disturbance" thesis behind Stewart's show with his father, and where video content and AI video ads are headed next. Find Mark Quadros on X @dherealmark and at his website, markxquadros.com.

Timestamps

00:00 Stewart welcomes Mark Quadros, discussing his shift from link building to GrowthOG and diving into Facebook ads and paid marketing.05:00 They explore AI psychosis and how AI-driven discovery is replacing traditional Google search behavior.10:00 Talk turns to bloated b2b ad budgets and why large companies struggle to adapt efficiently to AI.15:00 Mark shares his Bitcoin background, the "every company becomes a bank" theory, and his agency's slow decline.20:00 Deep dive into AEO, llms.txt, Cloudflare, and concerns over AI companies scraping the open internet.25:00 Conversation shifts to video, FFmpeg, open-source tools, and Mark's years living in Thailand.30:00 Mark recounts YouTube demonetization of AI content and pivoting back toward b2b clients.35:00 They unpack ghostwriting, ethical writing tensions, and how backlink value was really priced.40:00 Discussion of Google and YouTube killing old SEO playbooks, tied to shifting interest rates.45:00 Mark details pricing AI video ads, working with Google Omni and Epidemic Sounds, blending real footage with AI.50:00 Closing thoughts on the "reality disturbance" thesis and the value of human connection over AI.

Key Insights

1. Link building is dying but not dead. Mark's SEO agency business peaked around 2022 working with brands like monday.com and HubSpot, but AI has steadily eroded the value of backlinks. There's still budget for links, just far less than during the gold rush years of 2018-2022.
2. Big companies waste money because they can't track it. B2B companies spending $2-500M+ a year in revenue often can't account for where ad and vendor spend actually goes. Once a budget exists, it gets allocated regardless of efficiency, especially in large organizations too bureaucratic to figure out AI.
3. AI is changing product discovery itself. Instead of searching Google and choosing from options, people now get AI recommendations directly, shifting the entire model of how consumers find products, which threatens the search-and-link economy that powered SEO for two decades.
4. The open internet may be closing. Concerns about Anthropic, OpenAI, and China scraping content freely, including old books, have pushed creators like Stewart to restrict access to older podcast episodes. This marks a cultural shift away from the openness that defined the early internet era.
5. AEO and llms.txt are the new frontier, and nobody fully understands them yet. Much like early SEO in 2001, there's a new discipline forming around how AI agents discover and read content, but no established playbook exists, leaving even experienced marketers uncertain.
6. AI-generated video is a high-effort, low-margin trap. Mark found that fully AI-generated ads were nearly unprofitable given the time needed to get results right, while blending real human footage with AI-altered environments (using tools like Google Omni) produced better, faster, more believable results.
7. YouTube's AI demonetization wave hit creators hard. As AI-generated content flooded YouTube, the platform cracked down broadly, devastating even legitimate animators and renderers. This pushed Mark to pivot away from consumer video tools back toward serving his existing B2B client base.

In this episode, Stewart Alsop sits down with sdmat (@sdmat123 on Twitter/X) for a wide-ranging conversation that treats the major AI labs—especially Anthropic—as religious institutions rather than businesses, tracing a lineage from the Bay Area's LessWrong and Effective Altruism scenes through Eliezer Yudkowsky's influence, Roko's Basilisk, and the medieval investiture controversy between church and state, before landing on Anthropic's constitution as a kind of modern catechism, Dario Amodei's essay "Machines of Loving Grace," the tension between secularism and scientism, and closing with a look at consciousness, meditation, Buddhist and Advaita Vedanta ideas of enlightenment, and where recursive self-improvement and algorithmic progress in AI might be headed.

Timestamps

00:00:00 discussing whether AI labs are cults or religions, framing safetyism and the Anthropic/OpenAI schism.
00:05:00 sdmat argues Anthropic runs on faith, tracing roots to LessWrong and Effective Altruism.
00:10:00 comparing AI labs to the medieval investiture controversy between church and state.
00:15:00 debating the First Amendment, separation of church and state, and rising secularism.
00:20:00 unpacking Anthropic as a public benefit corporation and Dario's implicit soteriology.
00:25:00 covering constitutional AI, synthetic data, and morality-as-safety training.
00:30:00 comparing Anthropic's principles to the catechism, plus sandboxed alignment experiments.
00:35:00 calling Dario the AI pope, dogma, and his essay Machines of Loving Grace.
00:40:00 exploring grace, consciousness, and critiquing scientism.
00:45:00 unpacking the rationalist community and Roko's Basilisk.
00:50:00 drawing parallels to Jim Jones and ideological dogmatism in Silicon Valley.
00:55:00 discussing enlightenment, Shaktipat, and guru transmission versus AI.
01:00:00 AI's role in meditation and Buddhist views of consciousness.
01:05:00 closing on robotics, recursive self-improvement, and algorithmic inefficiency in LLMs.

Key Insights

1. Anthropic operates less like a business and more like a religious institution, with sdmat arguing that Dario Amodei effectively claims spiritual authority — talking about world danger and a narrow path to salvation — while the company frames itself publicly as a neutral "public benefit corporation."
2. The intellectual roots of AI safety culture trace back to the Bay Area's LessWrong and Effective Altruism scenes of the mid-2010s, where Eliezer Yudkowsky's writing produced an internally consistent but almost apocalyptic worldview, complete with its own devil-like figure in Roko's Basilisk — the idea of a future AI punishing those who knew about it and didn't help bring it into being.
3. Anthropic's "constitutional AI" approach is compared to the Catholic Church's catechism: rather than training the model only on labeled human feedback, they built a system to extrapolate broad moral principles into specific behavior, aiming for a model that reasons from first principles rather than memorized examples.
4. Historical parallels to the medieval investiture controversy — the struggle between church and state over who appoints bishops — are used to explain the current tension between AI labs and government over who holds moral versus practical authority in shaping AI's future.
5. Stewart frames the current moment as a "fourth great awakening," linking 1960s countercultural San Francisco through the Extropians and Yudkowsky's rise to today's AI culture, and argues that secularism and scientism function as unacknowledged religions themselves — ones that "killed God" but left a vacuum AI now fills.
6. On the technical side, sdmat explains that current LLMs are wildly inefficient at basic tasks like arithmetic — off by seven to nine orders of magnitude from optimal — suggesting major algorithmic breakthroughs (not just compute) are still ahead, which he sees as evidence recursive self-improvement is approaching.
7. Both hosts express real ambivalence about AI's role in personal and spiritual growth: it can be a powerful tool for meditation guidance and intellectual companionship, but neither believes it can replace what they describe as direct "transmission" from an enlightened human — the felt, non-linguistic experience that grounds real spiritual practice.

Stewart Alsop sits down with Daniel Freed, forty thousand words deep into a book that ties together consciousness, totalitarianism, archetypes, and religion, and the two spend the conversation tracing how those threads connect. They work through Jungian archetypes as behavioral blueprints embedded in stories across generations, unpacking the father, mother, and son roles and what they reveal about tradition, potential, and the individual. From there they get into Jordan Peterson's model of storytelling as a defense against totalitarian thinking, detour through Buddhism, Taoism, and the idea of the absolute, and Daniel walks through his own attempt to prove the limits of representing consciousness using axioms borrowed from math and logic, including Cantor's diagonal argument. The back half moves into Daniel's math and computer science background, touching on David Hilbert, Von Neumann, combinatorics, and complexity theory, before wrapping up with a look at Stewart's hardware prototyping experiments.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to archetypes, Jung, and why psychologists write dense books00:05 Mother, father, and son as story roles; tradition, potential, and the individual00:10 Totalitarianism, narrative architecture, and Peterson’s four degrees of freedom in a story00:15 Objects, relational properties, and why the thing-in-itself breaks down under scrutiny00:20 The absolute, the Tao, and consciousness as a limit you can’t directly represent00:25 A proof sketch against representing consciousness; diagonal arguments and formal limits00:30 Relevance realization, Popper, and why consciousness may resist full scientific modeling00:35 Applying the story model to groups: how collective narratives can become totalitarian00:40 Egregores, faith vs belief, and how ideas spread through modern institutions00:45 A turn into math: computer science, injury, Hilbert, and the power of axioms00:50 Quantum math, Von Neumann, and complexity theory as problem reduction
Key Insights

1. Archetypes work like compressed behavioral data. Daniel frames archetypes not as arbitrary symbols but as patterns tested across generations of storytelling — when a story trains believers to kill the father figure and chaos follows, more value gets placed on the father and tradition over time, and the same logic explains why the mother figure comes to represent potential and the son comes to represent the individual.
2. The son-outranks-the-father pattern underwrites Western individualism. Daniel argues that across traditions, the hero figure eventually outranks the established order, and this is the root of ideas like free speech and presumption of innocence — a fundamentally anti-utilitarian stance since it values the single person over the group's interest.
3. Jordan Peterson's four-part story architecture doubles as a defense against totalitarianism. What is, what should be, the path between them, and the unknown or chaos form the minimum structure needed for a conscious being to experience anything as new. Daniel took this framework and applied it to group narratives, showing how holding one element of a group's story fixed while individuals change creates the conditions for totalitarian control.
4. Every property is relational, so there's no "thing in itself." Drawing on Nietzsche, Daniel walks through the idea that qualities like hardness or mass only exist as effects on other things, which means an object stripped of all its relations has nothing left to define it.
5. Daniel built a formal argument for why consciousness can't be fully represented. Using three axioms about distinctions resting within "respects" and borrowing Cantor's diagonal argument, he shows that certain respects can't have a ceiling, meaning any total representation of consciousness runs into the same problem uncountable sets do.
6. Faith and belief are distinct but feed each other. Stewart draws out the difference — belief as propositional, faith as more emotional and fundamental — and Daniel agrees that propositional belief tends to translate into faith once people start acting it out.
7. Daniel's path ran from computer science to math because of a wrist injury. Unable to type, he shifted toward math and ended up carrying over proof techniques from complexity theory and combinatorics into his philosophical work, citing David Hilbert's method of reducing ideas to rigorous axioms as a direct influence on how he now approaches philosophy.

Stewart Alsop sits down with Matias Avalos on this episode of the Wisdom podcast to explore the intersection of technology, humanism, and creative sovereignty. The conversation moves from Matias's work with neural network-based audio plugins and effect chains to broader questions about corporate transhumanism, data ownership, and what it means to maintain human agency in an increasingly automated world. They discuss the dangers of convenience-driven technological adoption, the implications of companies like Palantir and Neuralink, and how bureaucratic incentives push toward total legibility while protecting their own opacity. Along the way, they touch on everything from IMAX audio production and the death of walkable cities to Instagram's transformation from visual diary to data extraction platform, ultimately arguing for local, open-source, and sovereign approaches to technology that keep humans in the loop rather than replacing them with "average fabrics" of algorithmic output. Find Matias Avalos on LinkedIn for more techno-poetic discussions.

Timestamps

00:00 Stewart welcomes Matias Avalos to discuss their friendship and upcoming conversation topics.
05:00 Matias explains audio effect chains using neural networks to capture professional recording room signatures and create portable high-fidelity sound processing.
10:00 Discussion of piezoelectric microphones converting sound vibrations to electrical signals and CIA experiments using lasers to capture audio from glass surfaces.
15:00 Conversation shifts to digital audio recording, sampling rates, and the importance of source material quality for post-production work.
20:00 Stewart shares his journey building web conferencing software to replace Riverside, encountering lip-sync problems and learning about FFMPEG processing.
25:00 Matias discusses corporate transhumanism, Neuralink's implications, and how brain interfaces could enable continuous taste mining beyond medical applications.
30:00 Analysis of corporate transhumanism through companies like Neuralink, discussing private decision-making, lack of transparency, and various transhumanist philosophies globally.
35:00 Matias reads poetry about digital replicas and data generation, exploring how wearable devices continuously capture human activity creating targetable information streams.
40:00 Discussion of Peter Thiel's shift from libertarianism to neoconservatism, Palantir's origins in Total Information Awareness program, and Buenos Aires as humanist sanctuary.
45:00 Examination of American convenience culture, post-WWII suburban isolation, and Buenos Aires as walkable humanist alternative to car-dependent American cities.
50:00 Matias presents Neil Harbison as positive transhumanism example, explaining color-to-vibration synesthesia implant while discussing techno-optimism from Global South perspective.
55:00 Conversation explores bureaucratic incentives toward population legibility, compelled silence laws, and sovereignty through open-source local technology ownership avoiding corporate control.
60:00 Matias concludes discussing digital identity ownership, social network portability, and how digital twins determine human worth across platforms and borders.

Key Insights

1. Modern digital audio processing technologies represent a fundamentally different approach to music and sound production compared to generative AI tools. Matias Avalos distinguishes between technologies like Neural DSP's Mantra plugin, which uses deep neural networks to capture and emulate professional recording environments, and generative platforms like Suno. The key difference is that traditional digital signal processing tools put the creator in control, allowing them to make artistic decisions using expensive effect chains that would otherwise only be available in elite studios like Abbey Road. These technologies democratize access to professional audio tools without removing human agency from the creative process, whereas generative AI tools operate as black boxes that produce outputs based on prompts rather than allowing genuine creative control.
2. The capture and preservation of source material remains critically important in audio and video production, despite advances in post-production capabilities. Through his experience building a web conferencing application to replace Riverside.fm, Alsop learned that many technical problems, particularly lip-sync issues, stemmed from poor source file management and recording methodology. This principle extends across all media production, as Avalos explains using the example of missing lighting in professional photography. While modern generative AI might attempt to invent missing elements, the results cannot match properly captured source material. This highlights a fundamental tension in contemporary media production where the quality triangle of cheap, good, and fast has been disrupted by AI technologies that can deliver all three if we lower our standards for what constitutes good work.
3. Corporate transhumanism represents a particular and concerning subset of transhumanist philosophy that differs significantly from earlier artistic and philosophical approaches to human enhancement. While early transhumanists like Neil Harbison, a color-blind artist who implanted a device to translate color frequencies into vibrations, pursued personal enhancement and expanded human experience, corporate transhumanism as practiced by companies like Neuralink focuses on technological integration with significant profit motives and control mechanisms. The discussion highlights how these corporate approaches position themselves as solving medical and cognitive problems while simultaneously creating dependency through terms of service, data mining, and token-based economic models. This represents a Trojan horse where the promise of enhanced capability masks the establishment of new forms of control and surveillance of human consciousness itself.
4. The concept of legibility as a bureaucratic end goal rather than a means to an end explains much of the surveillance apparatus that has developed in Western societies, particularly in the United States since 9/11. Alsop describes how those in positions of power, wealth, and fame have a structural incentive to make everything around them legible and controllable while maintaining their own privacy and illegibility to external observation. This dynamic manifests in technologies like Palantir and in legal mechanisms like compelled silence through gag orders, which directly contradict constitutional principles of free speech. The drive for total legibility of populations appears to have no ultimate purpose beyond the accumulation of legibility itself, creating a recursive loop where surveillance and data collection become self-justifying activities that serve power structures rather than the populations they ostensibly protect.
5. Human beings continuously generate enormous streams of metadata through their daily activities, creating what Avalos describes as evaporating against our own will into hundreds of RSS feeds for hundreds of corporations. This automatic data production occurs through basic activities like waking up, moving through space with smartphones and wearable devices, and interacting with digital platforms. The fundamental question that predates transhumanism but becomes more urgent within it is how individuals can own what they produce simply by existing and moving through the world. This data is captured through accelerometers, gyroscopes, GPS systems, and countless other sensors that create comprehensive digital profiles without explicit consent or meaningful control by the individuals being monitored. The unilateral nature of this communication, where individuals broadcast data without receiving genuine value in return, has become so deeply embedded in modern infrastructure that it forms part of the taken-for-granted landscape of contemporary life.
6. Platform lock-in and the inability to migrate digital identity across services creates a new category of loss that requires genuine grieving. Avalos describes how his experience with Instagram, which began as a personal visual diary before the Facebook acquisition, evolved into a situation where he cannot extract his creative work and social connections from the platform without significant loss. This phenomenon extends beyond mere inconvenience to touch on fundamental questions of identity and citizenship, as social media profiles increasingly determine real-world opportunities like visa applications and border crossings. The implications of digital footprints have become severe enough that individuals can be denied entry to countries based on algorithmic analysis of their online interactions, likes, and expressed beliefs. This creates a situation where people are worth exactly what their digital twin indicates they are worth, with no meaningful avenue for human appeal or nuanced self-representation.
7. The future relationship between humans and technology requires a return to principles of sovereignty, local control, and open source development rather than dependence on corporate platforms and proprietary systems. Both Alsop and Avalos advocate for a do-it-yourself approach to technology that emphasizes ownership and control over personal tools and data. This includes avoiding closed systems like Neuralink unless they become open source and user-controlled, and prioritizing local execution of AI models over cloud-based services that create dependencies and enable surveillance. The conversation suggests that techno-optimism remains possible, but only from what Avalos calls the trenches, acknowledging the different relationship that people in the Global South and those outside centers of power have with technology. This grounded optimism recognizes the entanglement of beneficial and harmful aspects of technological development and maintains that human agency and creative freedom require conscious resistance to the convenience-at-all-costs model that has characterized recent technological adoption.

In this episode of the Crazy Wisdom Podcast, host Stewart Alsop speaks with Aaron Neyer, founder of Parachute and community organizer in Boulder, about knowledge management, extended minds, and the intersection of AI with human consciousness. They explore how Parachute functions as a digital brain tool for organizing thoughts and information across fragmented systems, discuss the dangers of AI psychosis and over-reliance on technology, and debate open source AI development versus controlled releases by companies like Anthropic. The conversation weaves through topics including the limitations of metrics-driven business thinking, consciousness and relevance realization, the value of technological sabbaths, and Aaron's hope for locally-run open source models that protect personal data while still accessing more powerful gated models when needed. You can find Aaron's writing at unforced.org and unforced.substack.com, and learn more about Parachute at parachute.computer and parachute.computer/blog.

Timestamps

00:00 Stewart welcomes Aaron Neyer, founder of Parachute and Boulder community organizer, discussing the origin of Parachute's name from Frank Zappa's quote about open minds.
05:00 Aaron explains Parachute as an extended mind tool for organizing notes, contacts and information across multiple platforms, emphasizing the distinction between primary mind and extended mind as interconnected systems.
10:00 Discussion shifts to metrics-driven business culture and the limitations of pure rationality, exploring how Google's data-driven approach misses subjective experience and the whole picture of relationships.
15:00 Aaron discusses AI's ability to help identify relevant variables across different domains and the dangers of AI psychosis, comparing it to cult dynamics and belief systems.
20:00 The conversation covers AI sabbaths and nineties retreats as intentional breaks from technology, plus Aaron's experiences with electrical engineering and using AI to design circuits with Arduinos.
25:00 Exploring forbidden knowledge and open source AI, Aaron discusses Anthropic's guardrails around powerful models while arguing for distributed access to prevent concentration of power.
30:00 Deep dive into open source AI strategy, with Aaron highlighting NVIDIA's approach and the potential for running capable models locally while reserving ultra-intelligent models for complex research tasks.
35:00 Aaron shares his vision for local Sonnet-class models handling personal data while accessing Fable-class models for deep research, and directs listeners to unforced.org and parachute.computer for his writing.

Key Insights

1. The philosophy behind Parachute stems from Frank Zappa's quote that the mind is like a parachute and doesn't work if it isn't open. Aaron Neyer explains that having an open mind is valuable, but it must be balanced with deep roots to avoid becoming untethered. He has experienced periods in his life where excessive openness led him to feel disconnected, teaching him that creativity and expansion need to be grounded in something substantial. This same principle applies to how we organize information digitally, where openness and interoperability allow our extended minds to become more connected and coherent, which in turn helps our primary minds think more clearly.
2. Parachute is designed as an extended mind tool that addresses the fragmentation problem in how we currently manage information. Most people use multiple disconnected tools like Obsidian, Notion, Apple Notes, Google Keep, and various CRMs to organize their thoughts, notes, and relationships. These systems don't communicate well with each other, creating inefficiency and confusion. Parachute aims to create a simple, intuitive system where all this information can be organized in one place with true interoperability, allowing users to own their data and have it speak effectively with other tools, ultimately making our entire extended mind more functional.
3. Understanding ourselves as unified body mind organisms rather than fragmented parts is essential for effectiveness. Living systems theory shows that any living system is three things: a membrane bound dissipative structure, a self regulating autopoietic network, and a cognitive process actively knowing the world. Western civilization since Descartes and Galileo has created artificial separation between body and mind, and between subjective and objective experience, which limits our effectiveness. The same fragmentation affects our digital technology, and recognizing both our biological and digital systems as coherent wholes rather than disconnected parts makes us vastly more capable.
4. The relationship between data driven approaches and holistic thinking reveals important limitations in modern business and science. While working at Google, Aaron observed how data driven decision making can be powerful, but over reliance on metrics like ROI creates blindness to crucial unmeasurable factors like goodwill and relationship quality. This reflects a broader Western tendency to exclude subjective experience because it's difficult for objective science to measure. However, emotions, relationships, and other subjective elements are essential parts of reality, and focusing only on quantifiable metrics means missing the whole picture and ultimately becoming less effective despite appearing more rational.
5. AI accelerates the ability to work with technical complexity by helping with relevance realization across domains where we lack expertise. In any specialized field, experts develop intuitive senses for which variables matter and can quickly identify problems, whether in computer troubleshooting, music, or cooking. AI's ability to generalize allows it to point people toward relevant solutions in areas where they haven't developed that intuitive expertise, effectively democratizing technical capability. This means people can direct their creativity more effectively across more domains, though it also raises concerns about giving powerful capabilities to those who may lack the wisdom to use them responsibly.
6. The question of open source AI versus gated access involves complex tradeoffs between democratizing power and preventing harm. Aaron respects Anthropic's approach of creating guardrails around powerful models like Mythos, which would likely have caused significant system hacks if released without restrictions. However, this creates concerning power dynamics where only wealthy companies, governments, and their allies have access to the most powerful tools. NVIDIA offers hope through their truly open source approach including full training pipelines, and there may be a viable path where open source models at the Sonnet capability level handle most tasks locally while more powerful Fable class models remain gated for the most demanding work.
7. Creating intentional breaks from AI and technology is essential for maintaining clear independent thinking. Aaron practices an AI Sabbath at least one day per week when he doesn't interact with AI, and he finds these are the days when he does his best thinking and journaling. Without these breaks, he finds himself constantly jumping between journaling and prompting AI rather than giving himself space for deep reflection. This pattern mirrors broader concerns about AI consistency creating cult like dynamics similar to organized religion, where constant immersion in a belief system or technology can lead to losing the ability to think independently, making periodic disconnection crucial for maintaining cognitive autonomy and clarity.

Stewart Alsop sits down with investor and entrepreneur Adnan Hassan on the Crazy Wisdom Podcast to explore his thesis on creating a small state asset class, using evolutionary insights from asteroids, dinosaurs, and mycelium as a framework for understanding resilient systems. Hassan brings his background in Silicon Valley technology, New York and Washington finance, and sovereign funds—including senior leadership roles at the World Bank—to explain why 162 of the world's 200 states are actually small states with populations under 12 million, and why these distributed, autonomous entities might be best positioned to survive the coming global shocks from AI, currency disruption, and the wobbling international order. For more information about Hassan's work, visit www.sac-holding.com (SAC stands for Small State Asset Class), where you can find two-minute videos explaining his approach to building this new financial architecture.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and the asteroid, dinosaur, mycelium thesis as a framework for understanding evolutionary survival patterns across billions of years
05:00 Global order institutions are wobbling while currency systems evolve and AI emerges, creating simultaneous shocks that favor adaptable networked systems over large centralized structures
10:00 Small states defined as populations under 12 million represent 162 of 200 global economies, contradicting assumptions that most nations are large centralized powers
15:00 States behave as selfish entities seeking regulatory control while individuals seek autonomy, creating tension as the Westphalian system undergoes fundamental transformation
20:00 Cooperation versus competition in human systems, examining how KYC requirements and state surveillance are expanding globally including in America and Argentina
25:00 Small states are most interested in rule-based global order because they need protection from larger powers, unlike powerful nations that prefer unconstrained action
30:00 Of the twenty richest countries by per capita GDP, seventeen are small states, yet no small state asset class exists in financial markets
35:00 Uncorrelated assets provide diversification protection for investors, while small states offer geographic distribution across Caribbean, Africa, Europe, Gulf, and Pacific regions
40:00 Cross-border family business collaboration between small states will increase, leading to knowledge sharing and a proposed Davos for small states event
45:00 The individual sits at the core of this framework, with AI enabling creative minds in small places to access world-class resources previously impossible
50:00 Demonstration of accessible technology costing only ten dollars shows how AI removes barriers, allowing creativity to become the distinguishing factor for entrepreneurs globally

Key Insights

1. Adnan Hassan presents a thesis grounded in billions of years of evolutionary data, arguing that systems which survive major shocks share common characteristics: they are autonomous, networked, cooperative, resilient, and lack single points of failure. He uses the asteroid strike that killed the dinosaurs as his central metaphor, noting that while massive dinosaurs went extinct, smaller organisms like mycelium, ants, bees, and marsupials survived because of their distributed and adaptable nature. Hassan believes we are currently experiencing a similar asteroid-level shock to our global systems through the simultaneous disruption of the rule-based global order, currency systems, and artificial intelligence, all happening at once over the next three to five years.
2. Hassan identifies 162 out of 200 global states and economies as small states, defined as having populations under 12 million people. This number surprises most people, including sophisticated observers who typically guess around 60 or 70. Even more striking, 17 of the 20 richest countries by per capita GDP are small states, representing 85 percent of the wealthiest nations. These small states have disproportionate resources to deploy internationally and the greatest interest in maintaining a rule-based global order since they have the most to lose from chaos and cannot rely on size or military power for protection.
3. The current global institutional framework established after World War Two, including the UN, IMF, World Bank, and WTO, is fundamentally wobbling and reaching the end of an era. Hassan argues that states are inherently selfish creatures addicted to regulatory sovereignty and control, but the systems designed to give these states structure and credibility are now failing. This represents the first major restructuring of the global order since the post-World War Two period, which itself followed 400 years of colonial systems. The transition period will be characterized by significant chaos and convulsions throughout the global system.
4. Hassan advocates for creating a new small states asset class in financial markets, which does not currently exist despite small states representing the majority of countries and the wealthiest per capita economies. This asset class would provide large institutional investors like pension funds and sovereign wealth funds with globally diversified, potentially uncorrelated assets while simultaneously supporting political and economic structures that embody the evolutionary principles of survival through distributed, autonomous, networked cooperation. The small states asset class represents both sound evolutionary strategy and pragmatic investment opportunity.
5. Technology without philosophy is efficiency without purpose, a concern Hassan raised as early as 1994 when he helped prototype the first electronic trading market on the internet. He witnessed the naive optimism of Silicon Valley technologists who believed simply throwing tools over the wall would create a better world, but this approach made both good and bad activities more efficient. Social media demonstrated this danger by efficiently creating disruption and loss of trust in political systems. Hassan warns that the same mistake is being made with AI, where powerful tools are being deployed without adequate philosophical framework or consideration of consequences.
6. Small states and their leading families will find more common language and shared understanding with each other across geographic boundaries than with larger neighboring states. A family business in Montevideo has an easier conversation with counterparts in Singapore or New Zealand than with businesses in Sao Paulo because small state actors recognize each other's unique realities and circumstances. Hassan plans to create a Davos for small states in 2027 to facilitate this knowledge sharing among the mycelium colony, allowing different nodes to exchange innovations and strategies across the distributed global network of small state actors.
7. The optimistic future involves unleashing individual creativity globally by giving people access to AI-enabled tools that provide world-class legal, financial, and consulting advice in their language of choice. The solopreneur can now become a conglomerate, with individuals no longer constrained by lack of access to execution machinery. Hassan envisions young people in places like Gabon, Swaziland, or Uruguay having the same access to sophisticated business infrastructure as those in traditional power centers, with the distinguishing factor being creativity of mind rather than geographic or institutional privilege. Small states can pivot faster on regulatory frameworks, sometimes achieving in a dinner meeting what takes large states three years of legislative, executive, and judicial wrangling.