Fatherhood is a journey, and like any adventure, it comes with its own set of challenges and joys. This week on the Dad & Daughter Connection podcast we talk with father of two Patrick Rowe to explore the nuances of raising daughters, overcoming fears, and the importance of building a supportive community. Here are some key takeaways from their insightful conversation.

Embracing the Journey

Patrick Rowe and his wife were overjoyed but also slightly apprehensive when they learned they were expecting daughters. Like many dads, Patrick initially felt more equipped to raise a son simply because he could relate more to the experience of being a boy. However, he quickly shifted his perspective, realizing that the essence of fatherhood lies in being present, adaptable, and committed.

Patrick shared, "Being a father is not always easy. It takes time, effort, and patience. My biggest fear was how strong the foundation I've created with them is. I want them to always know my love is unconditional."

Overcoming Challenges

Parenting doesn’t come with a manual, and one of Patrick’s biggest challenges has been setting expectations for experiences he has never gone through himself. He emphasized the importance of patience and self-awareness, understanding that repetition and calm reasoning are essential when dealing with young children.

Patrick revealed that he’s learned to slow down and ask himself critical questions about his actions and reactions. For instance, why get upset about having to ask multiple times for his daughters to put on their shoes? This shift in mindset has helped him foster a more loving rather than demanding approach.

Building Unique Relationships

Each child is unique, and understanding their individual needs is crucial for building a strong bond. Patrick explained how his daughters have different temperaments, with his eldest being a people-pleaser and his youngest a more emotionally intelligent, independent spirit.

"With my eldest, we have this special thing where we say, 'You fill my bucket,' meaning she brings me joy. This small phrase has built an incredible connection between us. With my youngest, it's about being present while she does her activities. We connect quietly, often while she’s drawing or reading," Patrick shared.

The Importance of Community

One of the standout points of the discussion was the value of building a community of other fathers. Patrick emphasized, "Community is probably the most impactful resource I have on being a father." He detailed traditions like "pancake Saturday" and "daturday," where dads meet with their kids to bond and share experiences.

These gatherings go beyond superficial interactions, offering a space for vulnerability and real support. Patrick highlighted the need to show our kids that dads can also be engaged, supportive friends for each other. This not only enriches the fathers' lives but also instills in the children the value of a supportive community.

Taking the First Step

For dads looking to build their own communities, Patrick recommends starting small and being open. "Invite people over with no expectations other than spending time together. Ask the deeper questions. It might feel awkward at first, but the benefits of having such a network are invaluable," he advised.

In summary, fatherhood is a continuous journey of learning, adapting, and loving. Patrick Rowe's experiences highlight the importance of being present, building unique relationships with each child, and fostering a supportive community of fellow fathers. Through these efforts, dads can navigate the challenges and joys of raising daughters, guiding them to become strong, empowered women.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]: Welcome back to The Dad & Daughter Connection podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you and talk with you about this journey that you're on in being a father to a daughter. It's an important journey that all of us are on, and it is a journey because you're going to be having to be flexible. You're gonna have to be you're gonna have to adjust along the way. There's gonna be so many things you're gonna learn along the way that are going to help you to be not only a better father, but also a better man. And along the way, you're gonna stumble, you might fall, you might make some big mistakes, and you're gonna have some fun as well. And what's important though is that you're willing to go on the journey and you're willing to learn.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: And that's why this podcast is here because every week, I want to be able to help you in some way to be able to learn, to grow, and help you to be able to see that you're not alone. That's why every week I bring different guests to the show to allow for you to learn from other fathers, from other people that have different resources and have different experiences from your from yourself to help you along this journey. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Patrick Rowe is with us today, and Patrick is a father of 2. He's got a 4 and a 6 year old, and we are gonna be talking about his own journey in being a father. And I'm really excited to be able to have him share that with us. Patrick, thanks so much for being here today.

Patrick Rowe [00:02:00]: Thanks, Chris. Really looking forward to this. I think what you all are doing is super important in this time, and I love an opportunity to share what I've seen from my perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: I love that. And as I said, fatherhood is definitely a journey. And one of the things that I love doing and starting our conversations is really to turn the clock back in time. I said that you have a 4 and a 6 year old daughter. Let's go back. Maybe it's 7 years, 6 and a half years. Back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a father to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Patrick Rowe [00:02:28]: Yeah. Well, my wife and I were really blessed with this opportunity to have some things fall in place in terms of our home and and resources that we had. And we knew that having a family was something you were really excited about and ultimately you know there isn't that much of a window of time between the time that you find out you're going to be a father and then the time you have an opportunity to find out what the the gender of your child is going to be and I remember that moment very clearly. There was no part of me that wanted to have a son or a daughter. It was very truthfully an open excitement and joy. And that moment that I heard that it was a girl was equal excitement and concern. And the only reason I felt concern really was for some reason I had in my head that if it were a boy at least I would understand it a little bit better. I felt slightly more equipped as a boy dad.

Patrick Rowe [00:03:17]: Maybe 51 to 49% more equipped. But in that moment, I was so excited and so elated. And to be able to share that kind of special surprise moment with my wife was really great. And we just floated our way out of the hospital after that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:33]:

Now I hear from a lot of dads that I've talked to over the years that in raising a daughter, there's some fear that goes along with that. What would you say was your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Patrick Rowe [00:03:43]: My biggest fear in raising daughters, and this could likely be the same if if I had sons, but it's, of course, all those things I can't control. And so I guess my biggest fear is how strong is that foundation that I've created with them? Recognizing that I will go through challenges and they will go through challenges and together we will too. What tools am I giving them to help them know what my relationship with them is like and what their relationship with me is like to give them that clarity of my role, my position as their dad, a listener, consultant, someone who loves him unconditionally. And so I just try to think about the aspects of that that I can control and really that's how I show up for them in every moment, Whether that's in the morning when they're groggy or at night when they're scared or sometime in the middle when they're excited about something. Just being overly present with them, right? And making sure that those distractions are taken away so that they recognize that they are just wonderful and so special in my eyes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:41]: And being a father is not always easy. It takes time. It takes effort, and there's definitely challenges along the way. What's been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Patrick Rowe [00:04:51]: The hardest part has been, you know, just how do you set expectations for things that you've never done before? How do you set an expectation for what school experience you're going to have together? What's that support going to look like from that perspective? How do you set expectations on how they should care and respect each other? And so it's challenging for me. I'd like to have a rule book in front of me or or some kind of structure in front of me that says if you say these things and you support these things and you encourage these things, then this would be the result. And not being able to have that rubric is challenging and that that's really difficult. It's required more patience. I always thought I was a very patient individual. I have learned that I'm not necessarily as patient as I imagined I was. And so just recognizing that and one of the biggest ways that I've been able to recognize this is honestly just by slowing down, asking myself questions internally. Like, why am I asking my kids to put their shoes on? Why am I getting so upset if I have to ask them 3 or 4 times? Well, you know, what's the point? Are we going to be late to the pool? Why is there a reason to get upset? Yes.

Patrick Rowe [00:05:56]: It is frustrating repeating oneself over and over again, but ultimately, they will learn it and they will get there. And just knowing that that's the end goal, that's the end result, and being able to present myself in a loving way rather than a demanding way is not always easy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:12]: And you have 2 daughters. And anyone that knows that when you have more than one child, there's a whole new dynamic. And with that, many times, your children's personalities tend to be not completely alike. They tend to be very different from one another and what they need, and you have to build those unique relationships with each child to be able to connect. So talk to me about that connection and not only what that you love to do with each of your daughters to keep that connection, but what have you had to do to be able to develop those unique relationships with each of your daughters?

Patrick Rowe [00:06:46]: Yeah. That is so true. Our oldest is very much like me and she is a people pleaser. And so there's a lot of fun and excitement that comes in that. Right? She's always so enthusiastic to share what she's learning and doing. And she always wants to know what I'm interested in or what my wife is interested in so that she can continue to do those. That's fun and that's really exciting and we get to share a lot of similar interests and opportunities whether it's playing games or kind of the stories we're talking about or the subjects that we focus our time on or things like that. But it's also really challenging as well.

Patrick Rowe [00:07:20]: Right? I wanna make sure that she understands where my love is coming from and that it's not coming from a place of expectation. It is coming from a place of true love from the absolute from an absolute source. And so we have little ways that I remind her of that often. We have this little phrase that we came up with called you fill my bucket, and you fill my bucket just means what you are. You are bringing me joy, and you are filling my bucket for me. And so there will be times when she's doing something and I can say to her, I just want you to know that you fill my bucket. And there are times when she'll come up to me and say something similar and I have a little hand motion that we do now so that I can share that experience with her. We can connect even if we're not allowed, able to talk to each other.

Patrick Rowe [00:08:00]: So if we're across a room or if she's on a stage or something, we have that chance. My youngest daughter is an absolute firecracker and she is by far the most emotionally intelligent member of our family. She is the sweetest and the kindest, and I also have no idea what she wants or needs most of the time. And so with her, it's a whole different experience. What I've learned is that just sitting with her is the way to connect with her. We don't need to be playing a game. We don't need to be watching something. Oftentimes, when I get the most out of the time with her, it's because we are quietly looking at a book or she has a stack of crayons in her hand, in a piece of paper, and I'm not doing anything.

Patrick Rowe [00:08:43]: I'm just there. And while she is doing that activity, she's usually talking to me about something that she needs, right? A fear or a pain or a joy from her day. So making sure we create that opportunity for time with her too has been really great. And then with the 2 of them, I love doing events with both of them at the same time, but also I'm very conscious of pulling one individual away for, you know, a special trip to run an errand and then also maybe we get some ice cream or, you know, it's I think it's fairly common these days for dads to take their daughters on, like, a date night thing. And and I try to do that at least once a year, usually twice a year where it's just me and one of them and we go to the restaurant of their choice. It's It's the beginning of the school year. I like to talk about all the wonderful things we did during the summer together and and ask them questions. What are your expectations for this coming school year? What are some ways that you want to improve or learn? And then at the end of the school year, we do the same thing and we retrace our steps.

Patrick Rowe [00:09:38]: Hey, last year, you said this is a thing that you wanted to do. And guess what? You did that. And how does that make you feel? And just being really inquisitive with both of them has been really eye opening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:47]: Now I know in conversations that you and I have had community for you and building a community for yourself of other fathers has really allowed for you to be a better dad. Talk to me about the importance of community and how that has made you a better father.

Patrick Rowe [00:10:07]: Yeah. You're right. Community, I think, is probably the most impactful resource I have on being a father. And don't get me wrong. My father was wonderful and and still is. And he's been a great resource as well, but I've found that sharing my life with other guys who are in the same season while we are in that season together is just such an enriching resource. I'm learning about how they're showing up as fathers, how they're showing up as husbands, how they're showing up as employees, as siblings, as sons, all of these different perspectives. And we are honing each other into being better dads.

Patrick Rowe [00:10:42]: And sometimes that's because it's just the dads getting together and we're talking, Hey, what are the things that you're doing with your kids right now? How are you keeping them engaged in the summertime? What does it look like for you in this season of your life to balance work and time with your individual child or time with your children or time with your family? How are you doing that right now? Or honestly, a lot of times it's just a group that I can be vulnerable with and show up and say, I'm struggling in this part. Can you give me some advice or can you help support me or encourage me or point me in a different direction for that? And it manifests in a few ways, right? So it can be as simple as meeting up, every couple weeks around somebody's backyard fire pit. We have a pretty standard regular tradition that we call daturday, which is usually sometime around Saturday morning at 9 or 10 o'clock. A group text goes out with some plans for what we're doing that day. And it started as an opportunity to give our wives a little bit of a break, but what we quickly found out was this was a special time for us and our kids. And I think it's really important not only for men to make time with their kids, but also to show your kids what it looks like to have dads who are engaged beyond just their own dad, to know what it looks like or a community of dads to be great dads together. And sometimes that also looks like us failing together. Daturday isn't always pretty.

Patrick Rowe [00:12:08]: It's not always let's go to this donut shop and then end up at the park and everyone's happy and smiling, especially when they're younger or for any various reason. That trip to the park becomes a total failure. It's an emotional scream fest. It's some kind of injury. It's, oh, I think she's going through something at this point. And just having guys there who can help and encourage you in that, but also just knowing that other people are going through it too. And just to be able to be together in those situations and share that excitement, but also commiserate and support has been invaluable.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]: So talk to me about how you built that community for yourself because men are not always the best at building a community once we're an adult. And I think when we're growing up, you have your friends and you are able to build those friendships. You go into college maybe or you're young and you meet other people and you make friendships there. But then from what I have seen, a lot of fathers hyper focus on their family and you have these casual relationships where you're kind of like, hey, what's up? Oh, good. Yeah. Things are good. But going deeper than that is not always something that a lot of dads want to do or that they're innately pushed to do. So talk to me about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:28]: How did you develop that group for yourself? And how would you recommend for other dads to be able to start that process?

Patrick Rowe [00:13:35]: Yeah. You're spot on. It is one of the major challenges, I think, socially in our country right now is that men have a hard time making friends, which sounds a little weird to say out loud, but it's absolutely the case. I'll wind it back a little bit and give you what I think the reason was. I came from a family of people who really valued hospitality. So our home was always open, and my parents were feeding people all the time. And so when my wife and I got married, one of the first things that we were discussing was how do we be a hospitable couple as a family? How are we welcoming people into our lives? And along the same time, I'm big on traditions by the way, and I think traditions can be huge. They can be, flagship Christmas time things or family, whatever it might be, but most of the traditions that I keep are much smaller.

Patrick Rowe [00:14:25]: And one of the ones that we did early on was pancake Saturday. And on Saturday morning, actually, we call it Paul Simon's pancake Saturday because every Saturday morning, I put on Paul Simon albums, and I make pancakes. And I've been doing this since my wife and I got married. So when we had our kids, we started doing the same thing. And we were in the season, right, of being I was in the season of being a new dad and we had friends and acquaintances who were also starting the same season almost right around the same time. And this community of dads started with pancakes. It started very casually as, hey, our house is crazy on a Saturday morning because we've got this baby and like her sleep times are weird and I'm gonna be making pancakes. If you guys happen to be up, just swing on by.

Patrick Rowe [00:15:09]: And that's how it started. And one couple came with their baby and we just got an opportunity to share more and become closer and closer. So to answer your question, how do you facilitate this? You have to be open or you have to create on your own opportunities just to spend time with other guys. It's not any more than that, but you also have to go into it with no expectation. If you go into, oh, I'm gonna start inviting these neighborhood dads over to my fire pit every Wednesday night for a beer and just chatting because I wanna make more friends, you're gonna run into some roadblocks there. But I think if you say, for the sake of opening up my home, I'm gonna invite people over. And being open and willing to whatever comes out of that, you will find that 1 or 2 or in my case blessed with many guys where we were all in that same space of being willing to get to a point where you can share that one little thing. Usually it's one opportunity where you think I'm comfortable enough now where I'm going to say this one thing.

Patrick Rowe [00:16:05]: And if the other person with you picks up on that, then there's an opportunity to run with it. So I guess my recommendation would be be proactive in creating opportunity. Don't be afraid when the feeling comes to share maybe one little thing. But then also, when you're in that opportunity, don't be afraid to respond when someone else, another dad, shares that thing just to be be a willing and open ear.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:26]: I love the concept because I think that, like I said, so many dads are not able to do that. You might have a father right next to you in the house living next door, and you talk to them, you know, when they're outside or you might break bread or have a beer or something every once in a while. But a lot of times, it's very surface level. So talk to me about your community and that you've been able to develop. And how do you get below the surface into the issues that you're dealing with as a dad and not just stay on the surface?

Patrick Rowe [00:16:57]: I think we all have those topics that we are maybe a little bit nervous to talk about and find yourself an opportunity or one other dad that you can talk with where you are not afraid to ask a question from one of those topics. So maybe saying to a friend, my daughter is struggling with x serious issue or whatever that serious issue might be. Have you all seen that? Have you experienced this? Or saying, my child is falling behind in school, and we have a counselor for them for that situation. Or my wife and I are having a hard time together understanding what we can do for our daughter in this space. And then asking for advice. So think about what those they're not really taboo topics, but those topics where we're all living in them. It's being willing to open up about them. But I would challenge, instead of saying, okay, I'm open for someone to ask me a question about it, I would challenge a dad who's looking for that to ask that question of someone else.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:51]: Now you said that this started with finding other fathers that were going through similar experiences to what you were going through at a similar point in time. As your kids are getting older, how are you welcoming other dads into that community versus staying with that core group and not allowing others to experience what you've been able to experience thus far?

b You know, I think those opportunities exist a lot more often if you're willing to recognize that it's an opportunity. So my oldest daughter started kindergarten this past year and that meant a new school with new friends and each one of those friends has a dad and we are engaged as a family, right? So we are members of our PTA and our school is in our neighborhood and so we are there often. We walk to and from school, and I get introduced to somebody's dad 2 times a day during the school year. Right? Maybe on average throughout the season. And those could be a surface level if I wanted them to be. It's like, oh, hey. Hi. I'm Patrick.

Patrick Rowe [00:18:51]: Yeah. Oh, cool. You're so and so's dad. That's nice. Great. Have an awesome weekend. Or you could spend a moment with that person. And oftentimes, if you ask a couple of questions, again, maybe even opening yourself up to be a little bit more vulnerable, when you're with a person directly, one to 1, they value that time differently than if you were just in passing.

Patrick Rowe [00:19:09]: And I think what you'll find, especially with a lot of dads, is if you go into it with this idea that my interaction with you doesn't have to be a surface level, you might even see it lift off of them in that moment too, right? Because we've we've had so many of those where somebody's somebody's kid's dad comes up to us and says hey I'm so and so and you're like great, that's fine. I'm busy. I'm going to go on and do my own thing. But going back to what I was saying a little bit earlier, pausing, slowing down. Why am I trying to rush away from this opportunity to be introduced to someone else? So being engaged in the events that our kids are are doing, right? We're getting involved in a girls and dads group this coming fall that I'm really excited about of the group. I think there are 5 or 6 girls. One of those dads is involved in kind of my current community, but the others are not. And my daughter is thrilled to be a part of this group.

Patrick Rowe [00:20:00]: I am probably equally thrilled to add in an opportunity to add these men into my kind of brain trust. And we will have a lot of opportunities to share beyond that surface level if we're willing to. And I think that kinda goes back to that key point too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:09]: You know, as you think about the future and the experiences that your kids are having in growing up and growing up around these other families, what do you hope that your kids will take out of this experience? And what do you hope that it will do for them as they get older?

Patrick Rowe [00:20:26]: Yeah. Well, I told you we listened to a lot of Paul Simon, so I'm gonna quote Simon and Garfunkel. I want them to understand that they are not Iraq. They are not an island. And that it is okay and very natural to rely on other people. So if there is one thing that my daughters take away from what they may be seeing in the emphasis that I put on community, it's that they have more than just their mom and dad as an outlet to go to. I read something years ago about why children need to have what I think they called 3 families. 1 was your immediate family.

Patrick Rowe [00:20:57]: So that was your parental units. Your second family, which was usually members of extended family or maybe that like really, really, really close friend of a parent who you could go to with very serious questions and conversations that you didn't, for whatever reason, feel comfortable sharing directly with your parents. And then the 3rd family is coaches and teachers and and those individuals that you respect and that you care for in a different way, but you might not be at a point where you're taking those like personal experiences too. So in this opportunity, I'm hoping that my girls see that they have a broad community of that kind of second family level, individuals that they can go to if they're if I'm not available or for whatever reason, it makes more sense for them to to share, talk with someone else. Well,

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:43]: I truly appreciate you sharing all of this, and we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Patrick Rowe [00:21:53]: I'm ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:53]: In one word, what is fatherhood?

Patrick Rowe [00:21:55]: Giving.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:56]: When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Patrick Rowe [00:22:00]: One time, my daughter asked me what respect meant and she was young and I didn't have an answer in front of me at the moment. And so I came up with something off the cuff and I said, respect is how we care for other people with our thoughts, words, and actions. And more recently this was years ago. And more recently, I was in one room, and I heard my oldest daughter tell my youngest daughter, respect is how we care for people with our thoughts, words, and actions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:26]: They do listen.

Patrick Rowe [00:22:27]: It was wild.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]: Many times you think they're not, but it comes back and you hear it from others in your community, and then you're like, oh, that actually did sit. Well, okay. Good. Now if I were to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad? They're

Patrick Rowe [00:22:43]: very young still, so you're probably going to get some funny things. He is silly. My youngest will absolutely say that I'm stinky. I have no doubt about that. I think if you got them to pause for a moment, they would tell you, hopefully, that I'm caring and that I like to present myself as whatever the representation of love can be. And that shows up in different ways. And so you might get some different words from them in that, but hopefully all pointing towards that direction.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:07]: And let's go 10 to 15 years down the road. What do you want them to say then?

Patrick Rowe [00:23:11]: He was there. I want my kids to see me as reliable.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:15]: Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Patrick Rowe [00:23:17]: Oh, of course, that community. But I come from a pretty large family. And so I have an opportunity to see fatherhood from the perspective of a son. I have an opportunity to see fatherhood from the perspective of a nephew and a grandson up until just recently. And so those men all had a or have a strong emphasis on family and what it means to be a network of people who love each other. And when I think about what makes great dads, I think about I think about those men who were and still do love each other, but but but also come together really well and show up often for their immediate kids and also for kind of their extended family kids too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:58]: Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, a lot of things that you are doing yourself that are helping you to be a dad, and they and I really appreciate all the things that you shared. As you think about all dads that are out there, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Patrick Rowe [00:24:14]: Slow down and take a different perspective. Right? So, again, in the moments, we're always in the moment. And I think it is incredibly, incredibly important to be present with your children as much as you can and to make significant strides and, you know, significant changes to focus that you will never, ever wish that you had spent less time with them. And so, so that's key. But in addition to those things, it's pausing to ask yourself why. Creating that time is important. Putting your phone down to be with them while they're playing is important. All those things are great.

Patrick Rowe [00:24:50]: But why? Ask yourself why and ask yourself the, you know, that kind of perspective question. What is it that I'm what is it that's so important about me being with them? And if you can take yourself out of that equation, right, the, well, this is what I want out of it, I think you're gonna get much more out of it, and and obviously the the

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:07]: girls will as well. Well, Patrick, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today and your community with us, and I truly wish you all the best. Thank you, Chris.

Patrick Rowe [00:25:17]: This was really wonderful. I appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:18]: We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. The best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.