The Dad & Daughter Connection

Building a strong, lasting bond with your daughter doesn't come from grand gestures or perfectly orchestrated events. As revealed in this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast featuring bestselling author Brad Meltzer, the heart of connection lies in the small, seemingly ordinary moments that often become our most precious memories.

Brad Meltzer, renowned for his Ordinary People Change the World book series, shares intimate stories about his journey as a father to one daughter and two sons. Despite being a master storyteller, Brad admits that the best moments with his daughter were never the ones he planned—the magic always seemed to happen in the chaos of everyday life. A messy ice cream cone, an unplanned hug, the nerves and joy of dancing at her bat mitzvah, or even being called out for embarrassing "dad moves"—these are the moments that truly matter.

Brad emphasizes that as our children grow, especially daughters, our roles as fathers shift from advisor to cheerleader. He candidly discusses the temptation to mold our kids in our own image, only to realize that true guidance lies in creating space for them to find their own way. His evolving approach as a parent is a powerful reminder that our daughters' best chance to thrive comes when they feel seen, accepted, and empowered to be themselves.

As an author, Brad has dedicated his career to telling the stories of real-life heroes—people who changed the world not because they were famous, but because they helped others. He especially values sharing these stories with his children, intentionally choosing heroes like Amelia Earhart and the Wright brothers, whose journeys were filled with failures, resilience, and the courage to dream big.

Brad's books illustrate for fathers and daughters alike that it's okay to crash and rebuild, just like the Wright brothers did. The real lesson isn't about never failing—it's about learning, persevering, and supporting one another through every struggle. By reading stories of compassion, kindness, and heroism together, dads can open up essential conversations about what it truly means to make a difference.

Ultimately, Brad's greatest wish is that his children remember not the details of every story, but the feeling of safety and love that came from simply being together. You don't need to be perfect—you just need to show up, listen, and celebrate your daughter for exactly who she is.

If you're a dad looking for inspiration and practical wisdom to strengthen your bond with your daughter, listen to this heartfelt episode of Dad and Daughter Connection. You'll finish feeling reminded: the ordinary moments can truly become extraordinary.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to come together and talk about Things that are important in regards to those relationships that we want to build with your daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:04]: I so much appreciate that you come back every week because every week you can do something just a little bit more to be able to build strong bonds with your daughter, to help the relationship, help that, help her to be able to grow into the woman that she's becoming, and help you to become an even better father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]: And my hope every week is that you can take something, something small, something big to be able to help you to be that father that you want to be. And today we've got another great guest. Today we're joined by Brad Meltzer. Brad is a bestselling author, historian, and storyteller whose work has helped millions of kids discover the people and stories that shaped our world and have shaped our world. Brad is the author of Ordinary People Change the World series of books, including the newest book, We Are the Wright Brothers. His books explore courage, curiosity, perseverance, and what it means to be a hero. Today, we're talking about the power of reading and our daughters, why failure can be an important part of growing up, and how fathers can use stories to help their children discover what kind of person we want to become. Brad, thanks so much for being here today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: Oh, thank you for

Brad Meltzer [00:02:20]: having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]: I'm really excited to have you here. We always start our interviews with an opportunity to be able to get to know you a little bit more as a dad yourself. And I know you're a father of 3. You've got 1 daughter, you've got 2 sons, and all of us as dads want to build those meaningful moments. We want to have those moments that they'll remember, that we'll remember, that will help us to be able to bond in a different way. Talk to me about the most meaningful moment that you have been able to share with your daughter and what made it so special.

Brad Meltzer [00:02:50]: You know, I think as a dad and someone who writes stories, I know the perfect story. I want the perfect moment with my daughter. I can envision it. I can plan it. I can plot it. My daughter, who's now 21 years old, I will tell you that the best moments with her are the ones that I couldn't possibly plan. Everything I planned for always had a twist. There was always some disaster happening.

Brad Meltzer [00:03:17]: I would like plan this thing and then she'd be like, why are you doing that? And I'm like, oh, I've ruined it. But the best moments with her are the ones that, and I think, I don't know, this is maybe just a sign of getting older, but I truly believe, my friend, that the small moments are the big moments. I used to think that the big moments were the big moments and I fully believe it's the small moments. If you say to me, what's my favorite memories with my daughter? I'm gonna just off the top of my head, One, I remember I have this picture of her eating her first soft ice cream cone and the smile on her face as this thing melts in Florida all around her hand, the sprinkles coming everywhere, but she's so happy. It's a picture that I have of her hugging me so tight it looks like she's going to tear through my neck. It's just, it's pure love. It's this picture that I have of her, and not a picture, but in my head, when we danced together at her bat mitzvah. It was just— she was worried about it, didn't want to do it in front of everyone, but we had this little dance.

Brad Meltzer [00:04:10]: And it's always the little moments that really struck me. And even as she got older, my daughter spent many years just thinking I was, as I think all daughters should, I'm the most embarrassing thing in her life. No kid should ever be enamored of their parents. And so she keeps me very honest on that front. But I remember when I did the commencement address at the University of Michigan, right before I gave it the night before, she said, oh, tomorrow's Star Wars Day. It's May the 4th. I know what your speech is about. to be about Star Wars.

Brad Meltzer [00:04:38]: That's so stupid. What a dumb speech. And I'm like, you haven't even heard the speech and you're crapping all over it. And she's literally badmouthing something that I haven't even given. And that hasn't— of course she's completely wrong. I had nothing. There was nothing about Star Wars. And when my commencement address was done, she came up to me and she said, can I read the speech? She wanted to see it again.

Brad Meltzer [00:04:57]: She wanted to see like what it looked like on paper. 'Cause it was the only time in our 21 years I think I ever saw her impressed with anything I ever did. Only one time. But I'm holding that sucker like the greatest memory of all time. And I remember she was like, this is not a joke. This is a serious piece of writing. And oh, I've got one more. This may be even the better one.

Brad Meltzer [00:05:16]: This past year, she read my first novel. And I've been reviewed by the New York Times and Vanity Fair and everyone in between. I've never been more scared in my life than watching her read my very first book that I wrote when I was basically almost her age. And the fact that she liked it was— Again, I didn't even care if she liked it or didn't. She really did. But just watching her read that, it was like, that's what connection is, right? Is a curiosity that's not just like the simple stuff, but just the little tiny things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]: I love that. You know, I think that what I found in being the father that I have become is all of us are going on this journey for ourselves, right? And we're having these small moments. We're doing what we can to be able to create those inroads and connection. And it kind of is an ebb and flow because there's going to be good times, there's going to be bad times, there's going to be everything in between. And all of us are trying to help our daughters to become the people that they're becoming. Talk to me about, with your daughter, what have you done and how have you balanced the role of guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into the person that she has become?

Brad Meltzer [00:06:28]: You know, someone said to me recently that there's a point in parenthood where you have to stop being the advisor and you have to become the cheerleader. And I love that. And I can tell you that in many ways, you know, I think, and this is probably the thing I'm most embarrassed about that I've done as a dad, or maybe the worst thing I've done, is I think I spent a long time trying to teach my daughter how to walk through the world in the best way that I thought possible, but didn't realize what I was really trying to teach her was just to be like me. 'Cause that's what I thought worked for me. It worked for me. I got here and had you and was lucky enough and blessed to have this kid. And I wasn't trying to, I certainly never want her to be like me, but that's what I was teaching her were my ways. And it took me a long time when my daughter was very younger to finally figure out, no, no, she has to do it her way.

Brad Meltzer [00:07:14]: And my way is great for me, but my way is not the only way, that there are plenty of fantastic ways to do it. And I learned the lesson actually from my son. I always would tell my son when, He was really little. He was like second grade. They would go to the pizza party and they'd open up the pizza box and all the kids, the little boys and girls would go running for the pizza to grab their slice of pizza. And my son would always sit in the back and be like, just kind of waiting and watching. I'd be like, get in there. You got to get your pizza.

Brad Meltzer [00:07:40]: Because my whole life I was taught, if you don't get the pizza, someone's going to take the pizza. You're not going to get any pizza. And when all the kids were done and they would all scatter, my son would then walk in at his own pace and everyone would see that he was the only one who didn't rush in like a maniac. And they would give him 2 slices of pizza. And I was like, wait a minute, you're disrupting the whole way that I think the universe works. Like, it's not supposed— you can't get 2 slices. Like, what happened to the way that I thought the universe worked? And I realized my way did work, but his way worked also, and it was his way. And I think that realization cracked open fatherhood for me and for my daughter.

Brad Meltzer [00:08:13]: I think it really took me a long time to figure out, especially for her, because I think I spent— when I started writing for her, I wrote a book for my son called Heroes to My Son. I wrote one for my daughter called Heroes to My Daughter. And my editor said that the difference between the one I wrote for my son and the one I wrote for my daughter is that the one I wrote for my son was full of inspiration. And the one I wrote for my daughter, I kept using this one word over and over again. And the word was fight. Like, you gotta fight for this. You gotta fight for that. You gotta fight.

Brad Meltzer [00:08:38]: Even Gandhi, who was in the book, I was like, has to fight. Even the Dalai Lama had to fight. The pacifists had to fight. Everyone was fighting. And I realized that my son I was trying to inspire, but my daughter I was trying to protect. And I was very happy that an editor was smart enough to see that. And it really affected also how I changed the things I do with my daughter to realize, like, I was seeing her differently and I got to give her a different approach.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:01]: So as your daughter's getting older and you're making that shift, as you said, from advisor to cheerleader, how are you supporting her as she is working towards pursuing Her passions and her dreams.

Brad Meltzer [00:09:15]: I think it was fine. I mean, I'm someone, you know, when I write novels for a living, okay? And I used to think I was a novelist because I'm so creative and I can tell stories and that's what my job is. But I will tell you that, think of a novel, right? On every page that I write, everyone does exactly what I want them to do. They say exactly what I want them to say. The ending's exactly how I want it to be and everything works out how I want it to work out. So writing a book is not an exercise in creativity, it's an exercise in control. And I think for me, what I had to do is turn off that control with my daughter and let her do her thing, even when it wasn't gonna go well, even when I thought it was gonna be a mess. I wouldn't ever send her into anything where she would really, you know, get hurt or anything like that.

Brad Meltzer [00:09:58]: But, but sometimes she had to just do it her way. And was I good at that all the time? Of course not. I can't help myself. It's hard to turn off your nature. But I think for me, I think the core of it was just accepting her for who she was and letting her have the space to be who she was. And that's the best way I can say it is you gotta let your kid— and it was maybe some of the best advice I ever got as a parent was from my friend Rochelle Schwartz, may she rest in peace. She had just had her kids and my son was just born. She said, the only thing you have to do as a parent is your kids have to have a sense of self.

Brad Meltzer [00:10:33]: If you give them a sense of self, everything else will take care of itself. And I actually believe that to my core to this day. And I think it's really just to get out of the way and let her be her own self.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:44]: Now, as you said, you're a storyteller and you spent many years telling children the stories of people who changed the world. As a father, what do you believe happens when a dad sits down and reads those stories with his daughter?

Brad Meltzer [00:10:59]: So I'll tell you both sides. So when I wrote it, I wrote my first kids' books with my daughter in mind and obviously my son in mind. But it was my daughter who I picked the first hero for. I wanted my daughter to have Amelia Earhart. I was like, forget all these Disney princesses. Forget people who are famous on Instagram. Here's a real hero, Amelia Earhart. She flew across the Atlantic Ocean.

Brad Meltzer [00:11:16]: And my daughter was like, big deal, Dad. Everyone flies across the Atlantic Ocean. She was not impressed at all. She did not care. And then I went to her and I said, when Amelia Earhart— and this is true— she was 7 years old, built a homemade roller coaster in her backyard. And she took a wooden crate and she put roller skating wheels on the bottom of it and she shoved it to the roof of her tool shed. She put pieces of wood and she flew down the side, flew through the air, and stomach bottomed out from under her and she crashed and got up and was like, that was amazing, whatever she yelled. And my daughter was like, I like that story.

Brad Meltzer [00:11:44]: And I remember realizing in that moment again that it didn't matter what I wanted to teach her. What mattered was what she liked and what she was responding to. And it changed all the books. So now to answer your question, that was my intention. When I got to sit down and read it with her, it was because of her that I had the story. And I will tell you, it's one of the great moments of my life is to be able to take something that I created because of her and around her, and then show her the art that our amazing artist Chris Eliopoulos puts into it, and then to show her the final work. And it's one of the most rewarding things I get to do is usually you get to pick up a book and read it to your kid. I get to write it and then read it.

Brad Meltzer [00:12:22]: And my job is a crazy job, but that's when it gets craziest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]: Now, I mentioned that your new book is about the Wright brothers, and the Wright brothers failed over and over before they succeeded. What can fathers learn from their story about how we respond when our daughters fail or struggle with something?

Brad Meltzer [00:12:39]: The only reason I write kids' books is because of this story about the Wright brothers. And my friend Simon Sinek told it to me over a decade ago, is that every time the Wright brothers went out to fly their plane, They would bring enough extra materials for multiple crashes, which means every time they went out, they knew they would fail and they would crash and rebuild and crash and rebuild. And that's why they took off. And I love that story. I wanted my daughter to hear that story. I wanted my sons to hear that story. I wanted everyone to know if you dream big and you work hard and you have a good side order of stubbornness, you can do anything in this world. And that's what The Wright Brothers as a book is about.

Brad Meltzer [00:13:15]: It's not a book that I'm trying to tell you history. What I'm trying to show you and your kids is how they can make history. And man, I don't know a better lesson for life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:25]: Yeah. Not many people would think that bike makers would turn into people that would create what and be able to make that happen. And I think that book, along with other books that I've read in this series, really are built around the idea that ordinary people can do extraordinary things.

Brad Meltzer [00:13:45]: And that's, it's a key part for what we're talking about. It doesn't just start when they're bicycle makers, it starts when they're little kids. So their dad comes home and shows them this toy that he brings into the house, and it's one of those propellers that you wind up with a rubber band and it flies across. And the Wright brothers are just obsessed with this thing. They start timing to see how long it'll stay in the air. And, but it's their mother who's the tinkerer. She's the one who likes taking things apart. And they come home one day and one of the brothers has taken apart the sewing machine.

Brad Meltzer [00:14:11]: If I took apart our sewing machine, my mother, may she rest in peace, would murder me. But the parents of the Wright brothers look down at their boys and they're like, awesome. Awesome. And that's the lesson of fatherhood right there. Stop trying to push your kid to live the way you want them to live, but see what they're passionate about and just nurture it, water it, like feed that thing. The Wright brothers are the Wright brothers not because they had a bicycle shop, but it's because when they were younger, their parents are like, take it all apart, put it all together, figure it out, and remain curious. It's great to be a dreamer. And That's how the world changes, by those dreamers who become doers.

Brad Meltzer [00:14:48]: And again, I think it's just so important that we give our daughters that lesson. And to me, that's always been my goal, is just trying to show her possibility. Whatever one she picks, I don't care, but it's all possible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:01]: You know, we're raising kids in a world where social media influencers can become their heroes. How should fathers talk with their daughters about the difference between being famous and actually being someone worth looking up to.

Brad Meltzer [00:15:14]: That's the reason why I wrote the books. It's number one. I said I was tired of my own kids looking at reality TV show stars and people who are famous for being famous, millionaire overpaid athletes, and thinking that's a hero. And to me, like you said, I mean, that's fame. Being famous is very different than being a hero. And I think for me, your kids are going to pick heroes whether they like it or not. You might as well have some say in it. And that's what this book series is designed to do.

Brad Meltzer [00:15:37]: So we started with I Am Amelia Earhart and I Am Abraham Lincoln, but we've done Rosa Parks and Dolly Parton. We've done Jane Goodall and Billie Jean King. We've done Mr. Rogers and I am Jim Henson. And, you know, I am Walt Disney and we are the Beatles. To teach empathy, I did I am Princess Diana. To teach about mental health, I did I am Simone Biles. And the reason I did the Wright Brothers, I started in the beginning, I chose heroes that I wanted my daughter to have, my son to have.

Brad Meltzer [00:16:02]: But eventually I started looking and saying, what do they need? And when I saw they needed empathy, I was like, oh, empathy's like missing in society right now. Let's do Princess Diana. When I thought how divided we were as a culture, I was like, hmm, how do I teach them to come together? Oh, I'm going to do We Are the Beatles. And I just started picking things. And so even the Wright Brothers came as the 40th book. We had people vote on it. But it has always been my book that it's hard to change the minds of adults. But for over a decade now, I've been teaching and arming the next generation of kids with lessons of compassion and kindness and being a good person.

Brad Meltzer [00:16:33]: And I'll take that fight any day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:34]: Now you've had the opportunity to meet presidents, celebrities, athletes, activists, and other remarkable people in your journey as an author and as a public persona. After spending so much time around people considered heroes, has your definition of what makes someone a hero changed?

Brad Meltzer [00:16:56]: I hope it has. I mean, I hope I'm always evolving and learning. I don't think I ever know the answer, but the one thing I've learned in 40 books on this is that Every person that I've written about, they have one thing in common. They help someone. That's the core hero. That's the need. And some people do it like consciously, right? Like Mother Teresa goes and gets into the gutter. Princess Diana is hugging people in leper colonies.

Brad Meltzer [00:17:19]: Dolly Parton is funding things in Tennessee and giving millions of books away. But some people don't even know they're helping someone. They're just doing what they love. Amelia Earhart's just flying her plane. Jim Henson is just like, I love puppets and creating. He has no idea that a decade later, a generation of kids are gonna be like, I'm so inspired by that thing you did. love so much, but they do help someone. And that's the key ingredient.

Brad Meltzer [00:17:41]: And that's why I say to my kids, I'm like, I don't care what you do. You don't have to start Disney World or a Muppet empire or make Dollywood to be a hero. All you got to do is help one person, be kind to one person. That's the answer. It's in every story I told you here today is just finding that person and seeing what they do to make this world a better place at any macro or micro level.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]: Years from now, when your children look back on their childhood, they probably won't remember every book that you read together, but They may remember sitting next to you while you read. What do you hope your children remember about those moments with you?

Brad Meltzer [00:18:15]: It is funny because I do think that as a father, I spend so much time planning, as I said, that perfect moment. Someone once told me that when you read to your kids, they'll never remember the book, but they'll remember your arms around them. That's what you remember every day is just being read to. I don't even know if my kids remember that. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. And I think what I've had to, especially as my kids have gotten older, is it's okay that they don't. All they gotta know is that you love them. They don't have to have all the memories you demand they have.

Brad Meltzer [00:18:42]: And in fact, I remember my kids will quote stuff to me from years ago that I said that I'm— that's what you remember? I've given you so many great quotes, so many ones I've written just for this moment. You— they don't remember any of it, but they remember some like offhanded, like nonsense thing that I'm like, really? That's like my worst moment. That's what you bring back to me? But it's okay. That's what fatherhood's all about. It's spectacular and it's a disaster and it's amazing and it's humbling and it's perfect, and it's horrible, and it's amazing ups and the craziest lows, and it's humiliating and spectacular, all sometimes within a couple of minutes of each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:16]: Very true. Now, you've been working on these stories for kids for quite some time. You've brought a number of heroes out in front of the kids of all ages. As you look at the future, who are some heroes that you haven't gotten to spotlight that you hope to spotlight in the future?

Brad Meltzer [00:19:32]: I mean, we have a huge list. Chris Eliopoulos and I have this huge list because when I went to the publisher, they were like, oh, you want to do 2 heroes? Amelia— I'm Amelia Earhart and I am Abraham Lincoln. How cute. 2 books. And I remember that day I said to them, no, I want to do 100 books. I want to build a library that will exist and you'll have everyone in it. And to their credit, they didn't laugh. They didn't laugh me out of that office.

Brad Meltzer [00:19:53]: So I'm at number 40, but that list includes everyone from Nelson Mandela. I mean, I'm just literally off the top of my head. I mean, there's So many people I want to do. I'd love to do everyone from George Lucas and Steven Spielberg to doing Joan Ganz Cooney, who was the other founder of Sesame Street with Jim Henson. Alex from Alex's Lemonade Stand, people you've never heard of, and famous people I'd love to do. And so the beautiful part is there are so many amazing people that you can tell the stories of, and there's more that keep coming every day. And my goal really is I do want to tell the story of someone you've never heard of, because I feel like if we can get the book series to that, and I can tell you someone you've never heard of, then we can do anybody. And then it never ends.

Brad Meltzer [00:20:32]: And so I'm, we're trying to get there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:34]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I'd like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to get into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Brad Meltzer [00:20:41]: I'm ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:42]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Brad Meltzer [00:20:45]: Proud.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:46]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you ever received?

Brad Meltzer [00:20:51]: I said it to you, the child has to find their sense of self. And if they do, they'll find everything else.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Brad Meltzer [00:20:59]: Walking and talking. We both like to walk and talk together, and we both like to eat.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:03]: Now, if you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Brad Meltzer [00:21:07]: Love yourself for who you are.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Brad Meltzer [00:21:14]: I am so not perfect. It has been the most humbling task I've ever taken on in my life, and without a question, the most rewarding. And even as I say it, your first question was like, what do you think about the relationship? And I said proud. It's not the relationship. I'm proud of my daughter. I'm proud of this. You know, I've seen her grow and I fully believe that I've learned more from my kids than my kids have learned from me. And when my kids were born, I was like, get ready vessels, because I'm about to fill you with information every single day that's going to be amazing and perfect.

Brad Meltzer [00:21:43]: But they have taught me so much more than I've taught them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:46]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Brad Meltzer [00:21:54]: I think you have to love them for exactly who they are. And I think you have to let go. of your own view of the universe and embrace that theirs is entirely different and equally, if not more beautiful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:06]: Now, if people want to find out more about the book series, about the new book and others to come, where should they go?

Brad Meltzer [00:22:13]: You can go to bradmeltzer.com. It's Meltzer, is like seltzer that you drink, but with an M like Mary. So you can find me, Brad Meltzer, on any social media platform. You can go to whether it's Facebook or Instagram or anywhere else. And even if you just put Ordinary People Change the World into the internet, you'll find us there too. You're going to be hard pressed not to find this if you're looking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:31]: Well, Brad, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today, for sharing not only your own journey with your kids and your daughter, but also this amazing series that you've created over the years to help kids to be able to see heroes in different ways and people in different ways. And I truly wish you all the best.

Brad Meltzer [00:22:52]: Thank you so much. And

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:53]: that's a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect; it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:23:24]: We're all in the same boat. And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. So bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

One of the major themes that emerges from the conversation is the magic that comes from truly connecting with your children. Wylde Scott reflects on powerful family moments, like renewing marriage vows with his wife in front of the Eiffel Tower with both daughters by their side—a ritual that not only celebrates love but also leaves a deep, lifelong imprint on his children about commitment and family.

The episode dives into the complexities of raising uniquely different kids. Wylde Scott is refreshingly honest about the challenges of finding the right balance between guidance and independence, especially when you have one child who's fearless and adventurous and another who is more reserved. He shares how important it is to adapt your parenting—sometimes pulling back, sometimes encouraging more risk—based on your daughter's individual needs and temperament.

But perhaps the heart of this episode is the conversation about creativity. As a children's author, Wylde Scott is passionate about imagination as the foundation for success in a modern world rapidly being changed by technology and artificial intelligence. He argues that as parents, we often shut down creativity without realizing it, replacing free play and exploration with constant rules, structure, and fear of failure. Instead, he urges dads to be present—not just physically, but emotionally—and to actively nurture their daughter's curiosity and creative spirit every single day.

The episode also features real talk on mistakes, sacrifice, and the evolving nature of family life. Wylde Scott reminds listeners that no dad is perfect, but being fully engaged and willing to learn from your own shortcomings can only strengthen your relationship. Most of all, he encourages fathers to embrace the unpredictable, to make time for individual moments with each child, and to model the courage to pursue dreams at any age.

If you're a dad striving to prepare your daughter for a world full of possibilities and challenges, this episode is for you. Tune in to learn, laugh, and walk away with new ideas for nurturing both connection and creativity.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to The Dad and Daughter Connection. where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together to build those relationships that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: And it happens one day at a time. It's not always gonna be easy. There are gonna be times where you have to, you know, really just keep grinding and keep working to be able to build that relationship. Sometimes it's gonna be a high, sometimes it might be a low, but there are things that you can do every day to be able to keep creating and building that strong relationship that you want, with your daughters. And that's why this podcast exists. Every episode, I love being able to talk with you, to help you, to bring you individuals that can provide you with some tools for your own toolbox that hopefully at the end of this episode, you'll have some things that you can take out when you need them. And it might be today, it might be tomorrow, it might be a year from now. But it's important to be able to learn, to grow, and to be able to invest not only in your daughters, but in yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:54]: That's why, as I said, I love having different people on this show that can provide you with some of the experiences that they've had. And today we've got another great guest. Today we're joined by Wild Scott, who is the author of Raising Dreamers, and he's a passionate advocate for imagination, creativity, and human potential in the age of artificial intelligence. He's a father of 2 daughters, and he definitely brings a personal perspective to the question of how we can raise confident, curious, independent young women who know how to think for themselves and imagine what's possible. And today we're going to be talking to him about his own experience as a father of 2 daughters, but also about his new book, Raising Dreamers. And we'll delve into both of those today. So I'm really excited to have Wild with us today. Wild, thanks so much for being here today.

Wylde Scott [00:02:42]: Thanks for having me on, Chris. Super excited to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:44]: So as I said, I know that you have 2 daughters and I am really excited to be able to to learn a little bit more from you on your own experiences. And all of us as dads, we are wanting to have those moments, those moments that are so important to be able to build those connections with our daughters. As you think about both of your daughters, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughters and what made it so special?

Wylde Scott [00:03:08]: So there's like, probably if you look back, there's probably 100 for each, right? If you're present, if you're always there, if you're always with them, experiencing life. I think the most recent that I would share with you was that I recently renewed my vows with my wife for the 5th time in front of the Eiffel Tower with both of my daughters as the bridesmaids. And it was a very special moment, but it's very hard for me to express how personally special that moment was for the whole family to be there doing that together. An incredible bond, an incredible just experience as a family.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:42]: Those are great opportunities to be able to show, show your daughters so many things about not only the love that you have for your wife, but also the commitment that you have for another person. And that definitely will leave a lasting mark on who they become for themselves as well. You know, all of us, I think, as dads, I know for me, as I've done things in my life and I've worked to try to be that dad that I want to be, we are having to really think hard about how we're balancing, balancing not only life, but balancing really how we're guiding our daughters while also giving them independence. How have you done that? How have you balanced guiding your daughters while being able to give them the independence that they needed to grow into the people that they have become?

Wylde Scott [00:04:30]: I think you have to have a philosophy, and then you— and you also evolve as you go through the process. While your brain says one thing, your heart says another. That's a very difficult challenge. I think in the early years, I have to credit my wife a lot with understanding our children. And I have one who's, you know, hot on wheels all day long, not afraid of the world from the time she was 5 years old. So our existence was a lot of trying to figure out how to pull the reins back in without killing the spirit. The other one was kind of the opposite, very timid. And my wife did an amazing job of finding ways to push and push and push a little bit for the— for her to not be afraid of the world and for her to do well.

Wylde Scott [00:05:07]: And then it kind of takes off, you know, that's, that's the early years. And we had an experience in our house that my 14-year-old, who who's now 25. She got herself— we started driving our kids to be very independent at an early age. And she got herself into a very prominent ballet program at the University of North Carolina School of the Arts. And it meant that she was going away to boarding school at 14 years old. And that was the first time you have this— we had a personal crisis, right? My wife and I had that personal crisis. We never thought about boarding school. It's, it's not even in our normal system, right? We never thought we would do anything like that.

Wylde Scott [00:05:42]: We're both very connected to our kids. And we're very protective and all those things. And we're like, Oh my gosh, right? We're really going to let a 14-year-old go live on her own? And by the way, the campus is a very unique small campus in Winston-Salem, and it's split with a college. So it's also the art school for the University of North Carolina system. So not only sending our kid to a high school on a campus, she's also going to be there with a bunch of college students at the same time. And that forced a tremendous, you know, gut check on this theory about how, you know, how brave are you as a parent and how much do you want them to be on their own? And, and I would say I think it kind of set the tone for us. You know, we had a very hard time the first year just mentally dealing with it, and then all of a sudden one day it's like, you know, she's doing fine, she's doing great out there on her own. And she was 14, 15, 16 years old.

Wylde Scott [00:06:26]: And I think it led us to be a little bit more reasonable on my younger one who's 2 years behind when she was in a regular high school, right? So we experienced the regular thing with her, you know, every day, day in, day out, boys dating, wanting to stay out all hours of the night, getting in trouble, you know, doing the right thing, doing the wrong thing. We had a lot more normal experience with my younger daughter. And I think we probably were able to allow the independence a little bit more in that situation. Because we also had a daughter who was completely on her own at that age. And we would wake up every day and have that conversation. Like, as we— the natural tendency, right, is to shut down your kids for safety. Right? All you think about is safety in your brain. I'm gonna, you know, I gotta be safe, safe, safe.

Wylde Scott [00:07:12]: And, well, we also had this kid that's living out on her own. We don't even know what she's doing for— we literally had no idea what she was doing for 2 weeks at a time. We talked to her every day, but she could do whatever she wanted to do. And that was an incredible, I guess, learning curve for us to combine those 2 mentalities of a normal kid in a normal high school, one who lives away, and find the balance. And we're a family who believes in all possibilities, and we believe in kind of the big world, and we believe in go big or go home. And but then you have to test yourself when the younger version of you is doing things that you're scared of. You're like, oh my God. But then you know what? We told them to do it.

Wylde Scott [00:07:49]: We told them they had to dream big. We told them go out there and see the world. We told them go out and do this and that. It is a tough gut check when they start doing it to say, okay, I'm going to let this happen. And you realize you take a back seat. And we kind of believe this as a core of success as a parent. You are not successful if your kids cannot operate in the world. So if you're not, I think, introducing steps in that process that begin to allow them to think independently, operate independently, you're actually not doing a good job.

Wylde Scott [00:08:18]: At some point, they will be out in the big bad world, and if they had no options and no opportunities to test their mettle, they're going to have a hard time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]: So what you just said made me think about fathers with multiple kids and holding kids to similar but different standards. And I guess talk to me about You have one child that's out on her own. You know, she seems like a go-getter. You know, she is, you know, like you said, completely like, I'm good. And then you got another that is completely different. I have the same in my family. I have one that is to one end, one to the other. And especially when you have one, especially at the beginning, that is such a go-getter out there in front of everything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:02]: And you and your wife have, have given her the keys to be able to be that and have that independence. And then you have another that is going in a different direction. How did you pause to say to yourself, or even double-check on yourself to say, are we holding our second to the same standard as our first? Should we be holding our second daughter to the same standard? Or do we completely flip the script and see them as 2 separate people and we have to parent them in some different ways?

Wylde Scott [00:09:29]: Yeah, I think you have to parent them in 2 different ways. You have to address them as they are, all the while being cognizant, right, of the fact that they are different and the outcomes could be different. Where there's an analogy I used to use about my own childhood. I used to say I was the kid who would race straight toward the cliff with all my friends and then throw the brakes on as they all went over, right? So kind of a middle ground personality. I love the race, I love the excitement, I love going straight to the edge, but there was something internal that said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe this is not a great idea, this path we're on right now. And it's funny because I had 2 different kids where one would just jump the cliff with everyone else and one never even wanted to go to the edge, didn't want to look over, you know, that kind of thing. So I think that's important to understand with your children. Who are they when you're giving these, these rule sets? And if you tell one that you know is going to jump the cliff, go ahead, that's what's going to happen, right? She's going to jump that cliff.

Wylde Scott [00:10:23]: And you know, if you tell the other one jump the cliff, she's not even going to approach the edge, right? She's not even— so you know she's safe, right? From that perspective. From that perspective, this kid's safe. But what's she missing, right? What is that child missing by not going to the edge and taking a look, right? The big, the big wide world. So yeah, we were managing it very differently. You know, we're managing one back and one forward, you know, at all times. And then it does, as, as you were asking a little bit earlier, it does become unfair sometimes. We did get the— we plenty of times when we were trying to pull the reins back on my little one got the complaint, well, you know, Samantha does whatever she wants, which is my older one. She does anything she wants, you know, and it was true.

Wylde Scott [00:11:04]: Right? Like, I had no— there was no rope because she lived on her own. And of course, if something bad had happened, you know, my wife and I would have been in the car that day pulling her back from school, pulling her home, making sure that her life was straight. But we did operate a little bit differently. And I think with children, like so much of life, North Stars and compasses are really the answer because you have to have a, I guess, a foundational set of guiding principles on what you think you, you're doing with your children. And we all know the real world is very different. So you're basically adjusting to day-to-day-to-day-to-day circumstance, events, experiences, while somehow trying to keep the foundations of what you believe parenthood is about. So I think we did a fairly good job. But like I hear you say on your podcast all the time, it wasn't perfect.

Wylde Scott [00:11:49]: It was messy sometimes and a lot of fights, all those good things. And it's interesting because now they're 2 young adults and there are things we notice today that is about our parenting and we kind of giggle in the corner for all the things I think they didn't hear. They suddenly opened their mouth one day and I'm like, oh my God, that's from us. That's something we talked about and it actually sunk in. But for years I didn't think it sunk in at all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:11]: It sounds like a lot of the things you've done has definitely worked out really well. And as fathers, we want them to work out, but they don't always work out. Things do happen. We're flawed individuals and we make mistakes along the way. What's a mistake that you made as a father and what did that do to you or help you to do to be able to foster better communication with your daughters?

Wylde Scott [00:12:32]: First of all, I would say I'm older now, so it's way easier to think about those things and look back and have honest conversations with myself. about parenting and being a father. I think the worst thing that I would call a regret or something that I wish I had done way better— my wife is Colombian. We are both incredibly stubborn. We are not afraid to argue. We are not afraid to stand our ground. And I think about the early years when they're very small, and if you get into a yelling match with your wife and you see one of your children cry, I think that we went too far. We don't want to do that in front of our children.

Wylde Scott [00:13:04]: And when you're in that moment, it's very hard to stop, and you want to be right, and your wife wants to be right, and all those things. And I think the reason that's so important to me now is because I think about the fact that as a father, you are constructing an image of a man, or you are constructing an image of relationships, you're constructing an image of love and parenting and all these things. And even though we're imperfect, I think we have permanent impressions we give about what they expect. So now that they're adults, and they're trying to figure out who they want to date, who they want to be in love with, develop relationships with, I honestly think a lot about the person that I created as an image. Was it a good one?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:40]: Was it—

Wylde Scott [00:13:41]: wasn't perfect, but was it good? And so This is the answer to your question is that would I want my daughter to stand there with her boyfriend or her husband screaming at her at full bore? And I would say no, of course not, right? Of course I wouldn't want that. But in my head, I believe that the fact that my wife and I did that, and then we're still together, we're almost 30 years together, unfortunately allows a little bit of a gap where it says, that's okay, my parents are fine. And when they were going through these screaming matches, so I think that's a regret of mine. And I would say, I wish I had been able to tone it down. I wish I had been able to have better self-control. because my 2 young daughters are in the room. Pay attention to the fact that there are 2 little bright, beautiful minds standing next to you watching these actions. And I definitely think I could have done a way better job of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:27]: Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a new book called Raising Daughters, and your pen name, Wild Scott, as I mentioned, you write that under your pen name and your, and your persona and your personality. And I guess first and foremost, for those that don't know your persona, that they don't know Wild Scott, give me the backstory here, because when you see a picture of Wild, in full gear. It is really fun, and you can see why kids like having Wild come and talk to them. But talk to me a little bit about what made you decide to create the persona of Wild Scott and why it's still important today.

Wylde Scott [00:15:01]: So I'm a children's author, and it's a passion of mine. It's something that I absolutely love. I started writing when I was in my early 20s, and I worked in Hollywood for most of my 20s. Very creative environments, you know, you're always around people trying to create. And, um, but I gave up that career when I had my babies because I to become a good father. I was very dedicated to the idea of a family man. And my life in my 20s was pretty much like a gypsy, going from film to film, traveling all the time, and just decided that wasn't for me. But I continued to write.

Wylde Scott [00:15:31]: And when my children hit the ages of, say, 11, 12, 13, started getting into adolescence, I had a personal crisis, is the way I would put it. And it was that I was intensely missing the years when they are little, fun, and it's very Disney, and you're watching fantastic movies together, and you're rolling around around on the floor, and it's giggles and hugs and kisses. And then they hit the teenage years, and a lot of that goes away. Incredibly resistant. And I was kind of like many fathers who go through this. I was kind of heartbroken. And I would say probably the way I dealt with that trauma in my own head was to start writing a lot of children's stuff, right? Just something about being around that age from 3 to 7 is just magical for me. So I started writing children's books, and then I decided to start publishing.

Wylde Scott [00:16:16]: And I had some friends who were children's authors. And the way I would describe it is I watched one of my very good friends bore a bunch of 5-year-olds to death Barnes Noble. And I said, okay, I never want to do that. I want to come into a room and I want to blow their little minds, and I want to have such a huge impact. So I created the character of Wild Scott. It wasn't intentional. It was kind of like, how am I going to do this? How am I going to tell kids about my books? And what's the interaction going to be like? And very soon, 3, 4 times in, probably the first interaction in that blue suit, I was addicted. It was the most amazing experience.

Wylde Scott [00:16:48]: The adrenaline, the rush. The fun. It was something else. And it became almost as important as the writing to me. It was a weird thing. Like, the writing was important. Of course I want to tell beautiful stories for children. But then it became like, oh my gosh, these children, they light up with this character.

Wylde Scott [00:17:04]: They responded amazing. And I realized the younger it got, the higher the response was. I thought of myself as writing for 5-year-olds, and then I realized 3 and 4-year-olds, man, would light up when this character came in the room. And pre-K— I killed pre-K. All right, like, so it became passion. It became an insane passion to be in that costume and interact with kids, and it's something that hasn't left me at this stage in my life. I recently— last year I left kind of the 25-year professional career that I was doing to basically start pursuing this 100% of my time. I actually mostly just consult now for money so that I can afford to continue building this character and the books and the dream full-time.

Wylde Scott [00:17:45]: And it's funny, I was listening to one of your podcasts and you and I were talking a little bit about the impression that you make on your children. And I'm actually loving the journey I'm on right now because the lesson that became very important to me for my children was always pursue everything to the absolute end for anything that you're dreaming of. And they're watching me build a company at 56 years old in a very— it's different than everything in my real life. It's completely different than everything in my real life. And I love this journey because I love them seeing that. And they've been a part of it for 10 years. They've been to many Barnes Noble with me, many elementary schools with me as my backup crew, handing out books and wearing t-shirts that say Wild Scott. And so I'm very proud of the journey.

Wylde Scott [00:18:24]: I'm very excited about the journey. And what I hope for my 2 daughters is that they see what's possible in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:30]: I love that. And as I said, you do have the new book that's out that is definitely talking especially about the relationship that you have with your daughters and also what your daughters had in their life to help them to become who they are today. And in your book, you say that all failures of the future will be failures of the imagination. As a father, What does that statement mean to you when you think about the future your daughters are going to inherit?

Wylde Scott [00:18:58]: The big thing for me was that I had a huge change of perspective last year. And so originally, this book was just about the imagination because there's so many ways in which I love the imagination. There are so many ways in which I believe it's teachable, and we basically have ignored it for the last 30 years of education. All these things just strictly based on creativity and imagination, I think it took a backseat to all things for children compared to, say, testing SAT scores and, you know, these linear. So when I started to do a lot of research last year, I researched education hardcore to round out the concept, and I researched child psychology, brain development, everything that was associated with how a child develops. And then the last anchor of this was AI. I did a lot of research in AI, understanding what was coming, and it changed the entire book. That's why it's not just called, hey, Imagination.

Wylde Scott [00:19:47]: It's called Raising Dreamers. And the reason for that is I realized I realized for all of us, and this is the hardest message I'm trying to get to parents right now, their world is completely different than the world we grew up in. And we are rapidly leaving that world right now. We are leaving the world that you and I grew up in. And so for me, as any parent would who really cares, the shocking thing in my head was, man, I just had these 2 really smart, beautiful daughters that I trained for the world based on the 20th century model. I made them promise me and they both completed college educations. And then we launched them in the world based on a set of skills and circumstance and thought processes that were the last century. And I realized, wow, that's not what is coming in any way.

Wylde Scott [00:20:33]: That's not how this is going to work. So when I say all failures of the future are failures of the imagination, it's because we are entering a world with endless possibilities, but also endlessly complex at the same time. And the major vein of change, the major crux of change is that what I would call the linear is going to evaporate. And the linear is the world we were trained for. The linear is if you really want to succeed in life, you're supposed to— elementary school is the foundation of building skill sets for middle school. Middle school is the foundation of building skill sets for high school. High school is all about the SAT score, and the SAT score is all about college. And if you go get a college degree, you are bound to do well in life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:11]: Well, we're—

Wylde Scott [00:21:12]: first of all, we're watching that crumble in front of us. The generation that is graduating today with bachelor's and master's are the most unemployed or underemployed of all generations currently working. So it's already falling apart. But if you understand what's happening with artificial intelligence, it just blows up the model. So the layers of jobs that kind of evaporate are just about everything that we thought we were training for. Any job that you go to an office, you sit in an office and you sit in front of a computer for— it can be engineering, it can be accounting, it can be management— so much of what AI is built for replaces that entire layer. And if you understand the robotics and the physical world that's coming after that, that is based on artificial intelligence, very quickly a lot of the other strata begins to become a problem. problem.

Wylde Scott [00:21:57]: And if you listen to some of the smartest people in the world, they're talking about robots building houses and robots cooking meals and robots taking over. And Chris, I'll share with you, there's a lot of people who don't believe that that's going to happen. But I will give you a very specific example if you've ever seen— I can give you 100, but I'll give you one if you've seen this. I went to a McDonald's the other day, and of course, since I wrote this book, this is always in my head. And guess what was in the lobby as I approached the ordering counter? Guess what was in that An order station? Yeah, 4 kiosks. Guess how many people were standing behind the counter?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:30]: None.

Wylde Scott [00:22:30]: Zero were standing behind the counter in this McDonald's. Someone would appear every 5 minutes bringing up— you know what they were bringing up mostly? Well, I mean, they were bringing— like, they brought my order up. But guess what they were mostly bringing up every 5 minutes?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:42]: That I don't know.

Wylde Scott [00:22:43]: An Uber order. So think about how different that is than when we were kids, or even 10 years ago. You walked into a busy McDonald's, and there were several things about this that changed my perspective. One, the biggest McDonald's had 5, 6 registers. Because they were super busy. And they had all these kids, mostly kids, all these kids at the register, behind there getting fries, behind there making burgers, evaporated. And all I was thinking is, where would— if you were a kid today and you were trying to get those classic things that we want out of first-time jobs, responsibility, showing up on time, learning how to follow instructions and listen to others, doing your job with some professionalism and some pride, taking home a paycheck, learning how to manage that paycheck, it's your own money, all these things that we thought were essential to the Americana way of growing up, right? It's gone, that evaporated. And that's one of 50 examples I can give you.

Wylde Scott [00:23:32]: So in a world where those things start to evaporate, what's left for our children when they're 30, 40, 50? Because if you follow the AI in life sciences right now, our children are supposed to live to 120 years old. So you and I think about this, we launch them into the world at 25. It's like, for me, my kids were 23 when they both had to stand on their own two feet. And in the next 10 years, years, everything will be radically shifted into a brand new universe. So they're only 30, they're only 32, 33 years old when it's a very different circumstance. And have we prepared them for that world that is changing every 5 minutes, that robots and AI do 90% of what they used to do? We are about to see a tremendous crisis of purpose and meaning. That is the thing that is driving me right now in all of my messaging, is the world is a tremendous open oyster and full of possibilities for our children, but the linear progression is gone. So if you have endless possibilities but no guide track, what happens? What happens to your child? And if you understand what just happened in the last 10 years with social media, it frightens me because in my opinion, we all messed that up.

Wylde Scott [00:24:41]: Not just our kids. We as parents, we as a society, we saw this thing and we were all engrossed in it and we were all Like, wow, that's incredible. Look at all these things we can do. And I believe that parents are just as guilty as these kids we complain about staring into screens all day, death scrolling, doom scrolling. I see parents do it all day long. So the crazy thing about what I learned was that AI is 10 times more powerful than what we just saw in the last 10 years. And the, the crazy thing that I really picked up was think about a child who's 5 years old today. And there's several things I love about where you're going with this podcast that matter in this conversation, which is one, One, that 5-year-old 15 years from now will be 20, and the world we know will not exist anymore.

Wylde Scott [00:25:24]: It will be a very different world. But so much of what I learned about brain science, human development, is the same as many of the things that you're discussing on the podcast about connection. Human connection drives so much of healthy thinking and healthy brains and healthy emotional confidence, all these things. Human connection and the connection with your parents, the connection with your father, and if you're a father, the connection with your children, it is invaluable. in preparing this next generation for what's coming. And I can talk about the brain science. There's some fascinating things that happen between the ages of 5 and 10. But I'm obsessed with the ages of 5 and 10, because we do such a good job, mostly when they're 0 to 5, of— it's so easy to make that connection.

Wylde Scott [00:26:06]: They're beautiful little hug-and-kiss dolls that they're easy to hold, easy to pick up, easy to squeeze, easy to kiss. You love sitting down and laughing because they're learning the whole time. So everything is funny, everything can be fun. And then somehow, as a society, we all kill that before they're 8. Somewhere between 5 and 8, it's— they become these little adults and we put them on a track that they have to go forward. And I would say that the world is going to be so tough and, and difficult. And with this access to this amazingly powerful technology, that if you don't build insane bonds and insane connections before they're 10 years old, we will struggle with all teenagers and all adults after that because the technology is so powerful. So as I was listening to your podcast, I was all in is the way I would I'm gonna say it, all in on the idea that we as fathers— I'm a hardcore girl dad.

Wylde Scott [00:26:54]: I'm insane about my daughters. But that connection is so valuable. And I believe 100% that when my daughters do what all daughters do, which is at 13, they stopped talking to their dads. Now I'm just a big pain in the butt annoyance. And it took me 10 years to get back in their good graces. Like, hey, I'm still here. And I think I've heard you talk on the podcast about— they were much more naturally inclined to deal with my wife for about 100 reasons. because she's a girl mom.

Wylde Scott [00:27:18]: But I believe 1,000%, all of my success or ability to connect with them today, and to guide them in any way through the toughest years where they don't want to listen, is based on whether or not you have built connections before they're 10, 12 years old. If you haven't built those insane connections, and love, and respect, and understanding together, good luck when they turn the corner and start not wanting to listen to you all day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]: You know, you talked about the ages between 5 and 10, and in the book, you're talking a lot about creativity. and in how that creativity shows up during those years. And one of the things that you argue in your book is that we can unintentionally kill creativity in kids, particularly between those ages, as their play gets replaced by structure, by school, by adult expectations. What are dads doing with good intentions that might actually be taking imagination away from their daughters?

Wylde Scott [00:28:17]: There's several things I would say if you're a dad. One, of course, the idea of fear. So any good dad who has daughters has a lot of fears. Our instincts are all protective, right? So it's massively protective. So one big way, you know, you shut down creativity is conformity, just constant conformity and that type of expectation. Chris, I'll give you an example. I spent a lot of time in an afterschool program observing children, interacting with children heavily after I wrote this book, because I wanted to see and wow, how many ways it came to life. And one of the things that was such a struggle is after I did all this research and had a much deeper understanding, and I would sit there in this playground, I understood, number one, the idea of free play, how that context is incredible for them.

Wylde Scott [00:28:58]: Because when you spend time on a playground with 40 kids— well, actually 100 kids in different classes— it is a social experiment that's happening out there. Their development is happening in 100 different ways. So one, that idea of— that's partially letting go. When your kids are with other kids, are you letting go? 2, the idea of not stepping in every 5 seconds. Conflict resolution. If you resolve every conflict for your children, they don't understand how to do it on their own. So the idea of not stepping in. 3, when it comes to creativity, creativity.

Wylde Scott [00:29:25]: Some of your more creative kids are the wildest, the ones who do the things they're not supposed to do. They're free of some of the emotional burdens of fear, and they're naturally inquisitive, naturally curious. They naturally want to do the thing you told them not to do that. And it's amazing how, from a perspective, I stood there and started laughing about what I was watching with these children with just deeper insight. And like, if you took all the— half the kids that are supposed to be the bad kids or the most disruptive, what you're shutting down is wild open mind in many of those kids. It's not just poor behavior. It's a freedom of emotion. It's a freedom of thinking.

Wylde Scott [00:30:02]: It's a fearlessness. And it's a very thin line. It's a very hard thing to do to figure out, wow, how do I let this thing ride without crushing spirit? And that's tough. But the other thing I would say is intention matters. Being intentional and typical forms of intention we talk about a lot with parents is be present. So we all know dads being present for your daughter is unbelievably valuable if you're present for their childhood. But I think there are levels to presence. So one of the things that I'm seeing right now constantly is parents on the phone.

Wylde Scott [00:30:31]: So if you're in the room and your kid's over there on the phone and you're on the phone, or you're on the phone and they're on an iPad, you're not present, you're not engaged, you're not active. So the first thing I would say is, are you really present? Are you really engaged? Are you really active? And what happens with that switch at like 5 or 6 years old is the old days would be maybe coming home, hug and kiss, roll on the floor, and you stop doing that. So the big thing for me is from 5 to 10, are you still playing with Are you coming home? Because again, they're also developing as children. They're starting to be independent. So they have some natural instincts to maybe play with their sibling or watch TV or get on the phone. So it's this divide that starts to happen between 5 and 10 between the connection. So intentional— what I mean by intentional is, are you driving that connection back together? Are you cognizant of that room? Are you cognizant of every time you're in that room? Are you cognizant of what's happening when you're with your children? Are you on the phone? Are you actively engaged with them. That's the number one thing.

Wylde Scott [00:31:23]: And that connection is the same connection that drives creativity. So the last piece of that is, are you intentional about creativity? And I write a lot about that in the book. Like, what does that actually mean, creativity and the imagination? Well, the simple thing is, for example, everyone knows literacy is the foundation of just about everything in mental development. Do we have a good program for literacy? How many different ways children slow down their development if they don't have a good literary background? But at the same time, it's more than that. It's, do you go to bed at night? I think we have about 10 years to read to our kids at night, but most of us stop somewhere around 5 or 6, and most of us stop with, say, picture books. But how many sit up there and read children's novels from beginning to end with their children? Because it's not just about time together, it's about opening up their mind to wild worlds and big dreams and all kinds of fascinating characters. So that's one for me. Number 2 is, do you understand how to prompt imagination? Do you understand how in basic conversations you can constantly think about a normal world? Get dressed, put your toys away, go eat your food.

Wylde Scott [00:32:24]: It's all instruction sets. We spend all day giving instruction sets to children. How much time do we spend thinking about blowing up their imagination, blowing up their creativity? How much time do we spend dedicated— you know, all of us, and I'm guilty of a lot of this because my kids were raised in an era where I was very traditional in my thinking— is we're all willing to say to the kids when they're 7 and 8, and you know, 7 and 8-year-olds don't want to do math. their math homework. They really don't. But we're very good at saying you need to sit down and finish your math homework because we were told to, because school told us to, because everybody says we got to do this. Well, what happens when that's not the formula? What happens if math isn't king? Because a robot can do math 10 times faster at 10 times higher levels than you can. So is it really important to sit there and push your kid at 8 to just higher and higher levels of math? Or maybe what would it be like to push your kid to higher and higher levels of imagination and push your kids to higher and higher levels of agency or differential thinking or experimentation or curiosity? When's the last time you heard anybody talk about intentional ways of doing that with your children from the ages of 5 to 10?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:27]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call the Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Wylde Scott [00:33:34]: Yes, go ahead, man.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:35]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Wylde Scott [00:33:38]: Hopefully it's love.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:39]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Wylde Scott [00:33:43]: Definitely did not get that from my parents. My life was a mess. I will tell you what what it is. And it's so funny because it has a lot to do with this book and what I just wrote. A friend of mine was a world traveler for IBM, and he was all over the world doing amazing projects because he had invented some significant technology. And he was seeing some of the greatest things being developed around the world. And our daughters were together in middle school, and he would come home and he would tell me these stories, and he would say, this is not going to be here, this is totally going to change, forget about that, this industry is going to be gone. And It was just this frightening, overwhelming thing.

Wylde Scott [00:34:16]: And I would sit there and remember, we were the first generation where our daughters are asking for iPhones at 13, all these things. And I would sit here and I would lament everything about the past. Oh, that's terrible. Oh, this is not going to be good. Oh my God, this is awful. Oh, we can't do that. And he would look at me and say, you're thinking about this all wrong. He said, the world your daughters will grow up in has nothing to do with the world that you grew up in.

Wylde Scott [00:34:39]: So you have to understand the world they're going to inherit. And You have to start thinking about that and preparing them for that. And he was one of the first people to plant that seed in my head.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:50]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Wylde Scott [00:34:53]: We are a restaurant family. We love good dining together. And then I would tell you my 2 daughters are very opposite. My older one loves travel and museums and ballets. And so I do as much of that as I can with her. My little one is totally bored by 90% of that stuff. So I really focus on each one individually. And we try and put together the things that they want to spend time on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:15]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Wylde Scott [00:35:18]: Some of them I can't say because we've had some tough conversations, right? I think it is, anything in the world is possible if you are willing to work for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:27]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Wylde Scott [00:35:30]: I think the art of sacrifice. I think one of the things, the hardest lessons in life to learn is when you invite children into the world, it's just not about you anymore. And if you're not willing to give up anything, you don't really want to be a dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:41]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Wylde Scott [00:35:49]: I think obsessive engagement. Are you finding the ways to spend time with your children from day one? It will get harder and harder as they get older and life takes over. So how are you spending every minute you can along the way, every minute that life allows you? Are you spending time with your children engaging?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:06]: Well, wow, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing some of your story. And I know we just touched the surface on the book. So if people want to find out more about you, about the book, where should they go?

Wylde Scott [00:36:18]: Just go to my website, www.wyldgot.com. And it's W-Y-L-D-E for Wyld.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]: Well, again, Wyld, I really appreciate you being here today for sharing your own journey. And I wish you all the best.

Wylde Scott [00:36:31]: Thank you, Chris. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:33]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect; it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being engaged.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:00]: Bye for now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:01]: the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:37:03]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your Hey, game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the one to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:59]: Be the best dad you can be.

Building a strong, meaningful relationship with your daughter takes intention, patience, and a genuine commitment to growth—for both parent and child. That's the heartbeat of "The Dad and Daughter Connection," a podcast devoted to helping dads nurture confidence and independence in their daughters. In the latest episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with returning guest Arpan Shah to discuss what it really takes to create lasting, positive connections, even in challenging circumstances.

One of the episode's central themes is being truly present. Arpan Shah opens up about his journey as a dad navigating dual custody, and how—even when parenting comes with logistical and emotional hurdles—intentionally showing up matters more than perfection. He shares the powerful impact of simple, everyday rituals: from regular FaceTime check-ins and nighttime meditation to asking thoughtful questions like, "How did you help someone today?" or "What new thing did you learn?"

Another key takeaway is the importance of leading by example. Children learn more from their parents' behaviors than their words. Arpan Shah explains how volunteering at school, coaching basketball, and making time for shared hobbies like hiking and music aren't just fun—they show his daughter that she is valued and supported, while modeling lifelong curiosity and resilience.

Honesty and forgiveness are woven throughout the conversation. Both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Arpan Shah talk about the inevitable mistakes that come with parenting. The real magic, they suggest, happens when we use those moments to communicate openly, learn together, and even let our daughters teach us a thing or two about empathy.

The episode is full of practical advice for fathers who want to build a deep, trusting relationship with their daughters, such as:

• Prioritizing quality time over material things or work distractions

• Supporting your child's interests—from robotics and coding to sports and music

• Establishing meaningful routines and traditions

• Creating space for honest, two-way conversations—even when they're tough

• Focusing on presence instead of perfection

If you're looking for real stories and actionable insights to help you on your fatherhood journey, this podcast is for you. Tune in for inspiration, support, and a reminder that your heart already knows the way—sometimes, you just need to be still, listen, and be present.

Subscribe today and start strengthening your bond. Listen to the latest episode of "The Dad and Daughter Connection" now!

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to Work together on these relationships that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for coming back every week, for you putting yourself out there, for wanting to continue to keep learning, to keep growing, and to keep being present for your daughters. Because that's what it's all about. Each one of us has to put in the work, put in the time to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters grow into the women that they're becoming. But also, we need to put in the time for ourselves to be able to be the fathers that we want to be. And that's why this show exists. This show exists because I want to provide you with resources that are going to help you, give you some tools for your toolbox that'll help you to be that dad that you want to be. As you know, I've got 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:44]: I know you've got daughters. And I love being able to allow for you every week to learn something new from new people that can provide you with some of the experiences that they've had. in their life. Because every one of us as fathers is going to father in a different way. But we can learn from each other and take little pieces here and there to be able to help us be even better dads in the future. That's why every week I bring you a different guest, a different person with different experiences. And this week we've got another great guest. Arpan Shah is with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: And Arpan is a, actually a past guest of another podcast that I used to do called Dads with Daughters. And I was really excited to be able to ask him to come back to join us and to, and to have us have him back on to talk with us about his own journey as a father. And I'm really excited to introduce him to you. Arpan, thanks so much for being here today.

Arpan Shah [00:02:38]: Thanks for having me, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:39]: I'm really excited to be able to have you here today and for you to share some of the experiences that you've had. I always start these interviews with an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you as a dad and talk about you and the relationship with your daughter. I guess first and foremost, as you think about the relationship that you have with your daughter, I know she's 9. So as you think back to that relationship that you have with her, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share together with your daughter? And what made it so special?

Arpan Shah [00:03:07]: I think the special moments is now that she's 9. My last podcast was when she was about 4 or 5. And I was in the midst of a really bad custody battle. And so I was going through all kinds of emotions that many fathers go through in the treacherous waters of family court. And so what has changed And what's meaningful now is those little random hugs and bursts of, I love you, for no absolute reason, where you can see the unconditional love just pouring out of each other's eyes and souls when you embrace your child. And knowing that you're doing a good job, knowing that she's smart, she's got a good heart, and that she is a kind person, and she helps me out as well. And those are some of the most meaningful little milestones. Just if we can have that connection as the child grows and blooms, to nurture that and to have a hand in that is extremely humbling.

Arpan Shah [00:03:57]: And something to be very grateful for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:58]: As you think about what you just said, each one of us is trying to do things to intentionally build those moments and be able to have those opportunities to be able to connect with our daughters. What are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times?

Arpan Shah [00:04:16]: Well, recently, as she's gotten older, this is much different, as I have not pondered these questions you've asked for some time now, is There is a struggle when she goes from home to home. Our parenting schedule is such where she is 7 days with me with a break in the middle where there's a date night with the other parent and with her mother. And then on 7 days with her mom, I have a date night in the middle of the week as well. So during those times, there are FaceTime calls every day. And then we do a check-in. We meditate or pray every night before going to sleep. And the way I started that was a count to 10, just a breathing to 10 where you clear your mind for those 10 seconds. And I kind of assist her in doing so.

Arpan Shah [00:04:59]: So, and we'll take deep breaths, we'll hold them, we'll let them out, and we'll try to clear ourselves of all our thoughts and whatever might be on our minds. We just clear it. And it's just me and her, her voice and mine. And then we find peace. And then we touch base every day where that grows. I can get into that a little further, but I think that's something that everybody should do is just unwind with your child and debrief. How was your day today? What were some of your best moments of the day? How have you helped somebody today? What did you learn today? Those kind of questions are very important to ask. And then getting a habit of that, it keeps it in your mind throughout the day.

Arpan Shah [00:05:35]: It helps you have a more positive impact as a parent. And then the child ponders those questions a lot more than you might think. Children learn more from behaviors than what you tell them to do. So it's important for you to exhibit that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]: And following up with that, you talked a little bit about the fact that getting her back onto a routine and moving from routine to routine, and some fathers like yourself have a similar type of a family dynamic that has to happen based on time with mom, time with dad, you know, whatever the situation is. And you said that you've tried some different things that have worked, maybe some things that didn't work. For other fathers that are in dual custody type of situations like that, what's some advice that you would give them to be able to help the child to be able to maneuver from environment to environment?

Arpan Shah [00:06:21]: There's a couple of things that we can do to help the transitions. The most important being Don't badmouth the other parent when the child is around. That's very important. You want to love the child more than you might have some grievances with the other parent because that child is half you and half the other. And so it's important to know that if the child hears that, it's heartbreaking because the child is part of both and it's confusing as well. So it's important not to do that. On the contrary, if you are fortunate enough to have a good relationship, it's important to maybe just watch the child interact— you both interact politely. respectfully with each other.

Arpan Shah [00:06:57]: And then maybe do an exchange at a playground where you're both present for a little while, things like that. In the beginning, attorneys can really make things complicated. So I would have imaginary phone calls with the other parent to show that, hey, you know, we're laughing, we're good. And it felt— made her feel really good growing up. I think it's important for dads to be present, not be on your phone. And you know what, work may come in the future, spend time with your child. When you're older, you're not going to look back and wish that you had worked the extra hour to get that overtime pay or whatever it is. If you're in that situation.

Arpan Shah [00:07:28]: I know it's easier for some than others. But I have turned down opportunities, and even relationships and commitments to spend time. And I've never regretted that. As far as spending time goes, it's like, what do I do? I mean, if you look in the marketplace, or the— or even TV shows, it's changing slowly. But usually, historically, it's frustrating to me that the dad is more of a sort of like a bumbling idiot, if you will, in these TV shows like Al Bundy and Homer Simpson, and etc., etc. So it's important for you to find those positive figures or exhibit that yourself. Doing things, learning something together, taking a cooking class with the child, putting together one of those crafts like a mechanical toy or Lego set, building it together. Those things you're creating together with your creation.

Arpan Shah [00:08:14]: And that's one of the reasons I wrote Daddy Goes to Work, my book, because it's a book that I was looking for when she was young. Because she'll grab your leg and be like, Dad, where are you going? Dada, no! And then she'll whine. And you have a schedule, you have to be at work, and the kid has no idea where you've abandoned her for 8, 9, 10 hours. So in a good connection with one's father, especially girls, it's important for their sense of joy and self-confidence later in life. And more and more research and science is showing this and proving that to be true. A father's love is no less, especially with a girl, although it's also prevalent with males too. So anyways, Daddy Goes to Work is what I wrote, and I'm glad I did. Every child that reads it has a better connection and makes the world a better place, in my opinion, one kid at a time.

Arpan Shah [00:09:00]: It's a story of a father that goes to work and explains to a young child— it's more for kids under 7— what happens in the day and how much the father loves her, and that he'll always come back. And that message is very important, and it's nonexistent until now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:13]: You know, and we talk a lot more about that book in the first interview that I mentioned. I'll put a link in the notes today so you can learn more about the book and kind of the impetus behind that to be able to learn a little bit more. One of the questions that I have, and it goes back to kind of what you were talking about in regard to The work that we all do, many of us are working full-time. We're trying our best to provide for our families. We're wearing a lot of hats as we are being fathers, and we have to try to balance all of those different things. Talk to me about how you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the ability and the independence to grow into the person that she's becoming.

Arpan Shah [00:09:49]: So I incorporate her with my day. I will take vacation days like many, but instead of sitting around or going on a guys trip, I'll volunteer at her school. I'm involved. I'm her basketball coach for the 3rd graders last year. As a children's book author, I'll do author readings in the school. I'll help any way I can. So I make myself known. And I've always noticed when I was a kid and other parents would volunteer, I always thought it was so cool.

Arpan Shah [00:10:12]: I thought it was so special. And I could see it in her eyes and heart, how joy she gets seeing me in her classroom. She's like, whoa, what are you doing here? And then now people have gotten to know me as Mr. Shah. Like, she thinks I work there. So that's really special. So I'm very involved. And I encourage every father to do that.

Arpan Shah [00:10:29]: Show up at their appointments, dentist, doctor. It's important for you to be there. These norms are changing. And especially in the future with AI and stuff, I think fathers are more involved now than ever in the last century, at least, and volunteering, doing activities together, and just being present. Or, and if you can't, debriefing with her, asking her specific questions on her day. Because young children can be very vague. It's like, yeah, it was good. It was fine.

Arpan Shah [00:10:53]: What'd you do? Nothing. You know, like, well, did you play with any friends? And back to those questions that I mentioned earlier, have— how did you help somebody today? What's something new that you learned today? What is something that you need to work on? How can I help you? What was your favorite part of your day with me if you had spent the day? So those are all very— make things more meaningful. And then when you go putting action to your thoughts, you'll be surprised how your soul will carry you forward in this relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]: Now, none of us are infallible. We're human. We make mistakes. And I guess as you think about yourself as a father in working with your daughter, what's a mistake that you've made as a father And what did you learn from it about fostering better communication with your own daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:11:35]: Well, I learned something new every day. I just never stopped looking for ways to improve. This is a very common thing. The way my custody battle started, it was my child was removed from the state and we kind of saw it coming and she was held without contact for an extended period. So I think that's why I'm so intense and present in her life right now, because I was so connected to her. I'm the oldest out of like 9 cousins and we were raised very close together. Like I was in Chicago. They're in Indiana, and we would visit every weekend.

Arpan Shah [00:12:03]: So they were like siblings, but I was the oldest. And my best friend in the family has always been the youngest one. Like I said, I'm a big kid. I love goofing around. And I missed that. But I won that pretty quickly. But it was very difficult, very traumatic. And that kind of helped me be extremely present.

Arpan Shah [00:12:18]: I did some positive parenting classes that were free I found online, just voluntarily. I talked to other dads. I went to some parent mentoring stuff. And I'm just always trying to be a better dad or make other fathers better. I currently help freelance as a divorce coach and a parenting guide for fathers and some mothers too. I've helped a lot of people out, so I learned from their experiences. I learned from mine. I'm trying to think.

Arpan Shah [00:12:40]: We're human, like you said, so you can get angry sometimes, or you want to make sure that you're always communicating so that you can grow together. In relationships, you learn when you fall and from when you rise. So you want to make sure you're there to carry her up, and then you want to empower your child to lift you up when she notices things and to have honest conversations with— because you are not a god.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:00]: One other question, which is really going to some of the things that you do, because you're already talking about things that you're doing to be able to show up for your daughter. What do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Arpan Shah [00:13:12]: I'm always present. I think presence is what's important for fathers more than ever. I'm there before she's awake. I'm there to put her down. When I'm picking her up at school, I'm, I'm on time. I'm there taking her to activities and not just leaving, checking out at the playground. I'm not just leaving her at the playground sitting on the bench on my phone. I'm interacting.

Arpan Shah [00:13:29]: You know, while I still can, while I have a good back. And it's the engaging, it's the wanting to be there, it's the presence. And I think as long as you're present, the love that you have for your child will tell you where to go next.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:40]: And before we started the show today, one of the things that you told me was the story of the conversation that you had with your daughter about teasing. I want you to tell that story because I think that really connects with this question as well.

Arpan Shah [00:13:53]: I can be immature sometimes, and then we tease each other, but I got to realize that one time she was joking around with me, and then I can't remember I don't remember exactly the situation. It was some time ago, but I do remember what she said afterwards. She sat me down like she was my mom and she's like, hey, if you treat somebody and do blah, blah, blah to them, how would that make you feel? And then I was like, ah, man, I wouldn't feel very good at all. And she's like, well, that's how I feel. And I was just like, oh my God. I apologized. It was just so sweet to see her put me in my place and the maturity. I was just so proud of her.

Arpan Shah [00:14:27]: Even when she was 3, she had those kind of tendencies. One time we had people over, me and my wife, and And then it was about 9 PM. So what she did— and we had music playing, we had some food on the dining table, and people were kind of scattered throughout the condo. And then she walks up out of her room, turns the music off, slams her door before she says, I'm going to sleep, everybody be quiet. And then the mic just dropped and everybody was like, oh my God, that was so beautiful. It was so awesome. And then, I mean, eventually, you know, people got quiet and they were trailing out anyways. There were other children there.

Arpan Shah [00:15:00]: So I just thought that was really cool. She's like 9 going on 90.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:04]: So, you know, every one of us as fathers also try to support our daughter's dreams and passions. How are you supporting your daughter's dreams and passions?

Arpan Shah [00:15:14]: I've exposed her in her earlier years to so many different activities. We've tried all kinds of sports. She did love basketball. I didn't think she would because probably that I was one of the coaches there. So I'm really proud of that. And we play every chance we get. And when we find a park, I keep a ball in my car. Something else is she's really taken a liking to building and programming and coding.

Arpan Shah [00:15:36]: Like engineering, whether it be Legos or Roblox, Minecraft. I'm not a big fan of Roblox, but there's also editing videos and sounds. I play several instruments myself, so that way she's become somewhat of an audiophile. She has an appreciation for good music and the technology that's behind it. Her school is a performing arts and fine arts magnet, so they do have a music technology class that they start at a young age, which I thought was cool. I didn't have that when I was young. I had a recorder, but I found a place called iCode. Where they did like a YouTube Creator Week where you modify sound waves and add text to video and make, make like video editing basically.

Arpan Shah [00:16:15]: And she just loved it. After school, she pulled up my laptop, downloaded some app, and started finding stock videos and footage, adding text, and then finding music clips, uploading them, and doing that. And she's just turned 9, and I can't even do some of this stuff. So I was very impressed, and I felt grateful that, hey, I put in this effort. I got her into this camp over the summer instead of something else or just sitting at home. And she's learned something new that she's passionate about. The way I found it was a trial class in robotics where you kind of code a robot to like make a left turn, go straight, because, you know, the future is AI. So we gotta— I don't know what the future holds, but I do know that you can't go wrong with this stuff for now at least.

Arpan Shah [00:16:54]: And it's good to have a background in it. So I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get her into something else like our Battle of the Bots. That's the— that's something coming up in August, which is a week-long course about programming a robot. The other student programs one. And then you fight and then you see who wins and you learn something and you have a fun time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]: And what's one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Arpan Shah [00:17:13]: When she confesses something to me or says something serious, she knows that I have her back. Like if there's some bullying happening or if she gets in trouble, there's one way to discipline. And then, but in private, you want to give the advice and know that you're on her side, that you are supported, that she is not alone. Even though there are going to be consequences for her behaviors and actions, you have to explain that to her. You can't just be like, you're going timeout, or Like, you know, I'm taking your tablet away for a week or whatever else you do to discipline your child. You want to explain that this was you, this is your choice. You can choose to do this or you can choose to do that. You have to give them the power.

Arpan Shah [00:17:50]: And then once you give them the choice and they make the wrong choice, they'll understand that there are specific consequences to making those choices in their little minds. And that's how they're gonna learn it. If you just yell at them, they're just gonna learn to resist slightly and outsmart. But, and kids are smart, so you have to be on top of it and you have to be present and you have to be involved in everything we've set up to this point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:10]: And what's a tradition or routine that you've created together that strengthens your bond?

Arpan Shah [00:18:15]: It would have to be the evening meditation. And we did jiu-jitsu for 5 years. You know, we need to empower our girls, especially if they're not bullies. If they are, then don't empower them. But now she's recently taken a liking to boxing. She loves it. Actually, as a bachelor, I might— I'm actually shopping for a 40-pound punching bag to put in my living room. Between my living room and dining room.

Arpan Shah [00:18:37]: So I'm really happy that she loves it so much. And it's something good, something fitness-oriented. I go to the gym, I make sure I bring her with me. Gyms have daycares with toys and fun stuff. So it's important, like I said earlier, kids learn more from behaviors. You can tell a kid that it's important to work out and eat healthy, or you can demonstrate that. And then she enjoys doing push-ups, mountain climbers, bear crawls, and all kinds of stuff just by watching me. And then you break a sweat, you come into the break room or the childcare area sweating, and you're like, hey, just checking in on you.

Arpan Shah [00:19:07]: How are you doing? You having fun, great. And then you go back. And I think those are really important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Arpan Shah [00:19:18]: I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:19:22]: Blissful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:22]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received?

Arpan Shah [00:19:27]: Always be honest with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:28]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Arpan Shah [00:19:32]: Hiking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Arpan Shah [00:19:36]: Pain is mandatory. Suffering is optional.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:38]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Arpan Shah [00:19:41]: Resilience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Arpan Shah [00:19:50]: Your heart already knows what to do. Cut out your programming that you might have had from your parents and the parents before and be present with an open heart and mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:58]: Well, Arpan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today, for sharing what you shared. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Arpan Shah [00:20:06]: Well, they can Google Arpan V. Shah, A-R-P-A-N, and my book is Daddy Goes to Work. You can also find me on Facebook as A.V. Shah. It's just capital letters, A.V. together, space, Shah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]: Well, again, Arpan, thanks so much for being here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you again, and I wish you all the best.

Arpan Shah [00:20:24]: Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity. It's been a long time. Always a pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:28]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect; it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:58]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by so fast. I'm gonna go get some sleep. Time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Outro Performer [00:21:51]: Be the best dad you can be.

At the heart of The Dad and Daughter Connection, featured in this week's episode, is the steadfast belief that the strongest father-daughter relationships are built one intentional moment at a time. In a conversation brimming with honesty and warmth, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Matt Haviland and his 20-year-old daughter, Olivia Haviland, to explore what it truly means to connect, support, and empower our daughters to become confident, independent women.

Listening With Intent

One of the most powerful themes from this episode is the importance of truly listening. Olivia Haviland reflects on her high school years, sharing how her dad's willingness to listen without judgment made her feel seen and valued. Rather than resorting to harsh discipline, Matt Haviland chose to open a dialogue, striving to understand Olivia's perspective and guide rather than simply correct. This practice, inspired by a national survey in which teens wished their dads would "listen more," is a reminder for all fathers: be present, and let your daughter's voice be heard.

Meaningful Moments Big and Small

Connection isn't always about the grand gestures. Matt Haviland and Olivia share memories ranging from epic squirt gun battles to heartfelt college essays, and even "loud and obnoxious" declarations of love at McDonald's. Whether it's a shared joke, a drive together, or simply showing up at a dance recital, these moments accumulate into a reservoir of trust and comfort. As Olivia Haviland puts it, time spent together outweighs any material gift.

Guidance and Independence

Balancing guidance with independence is a recurring theme. Matt Haviland, a former single dad, emphasizes being intentional with the time he shared with Olivia, supporting her dreams while encouraging self-reflection and growth. For Olivia, this support translated into confidence in her career and life decisions—bolstered by her dad's encouragement to think long-term and his faith-based guidance.

Real Advice for Real Dads

This episode wraps with practical wisdom: prioritize time with your kids, apologize for your mistakes, and let your actions reflect your family values. Both Matt Haviland and Olivia Haviland urge dads everywhere to listen deeply and value presence over presents.

Ready to strengthen your bond with your daughter? Listen to this heartfelt episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection and discover how every day can be an opportunity to connect, grow, and become the dad she needs.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together to build those connections that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. You know, I love it that you come back every week because that shows a lot about who you want to be as a father, but also who you want to be and what type of relationship you want to have, relationship that you want to have with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: And it takes time, it takes effort, and it takes work. And we have to keep showing up. And it is so important for us to be able to put the work in for ourselves, but also put in the work with our daughters to be able to have that solid relationship that we wanna have. And that's why this podcast exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that allow for you to be able to learn, to grow, to get some tools for your toolbox, and to be able to take those and use them for the future. So I am really excited today to have a, I'm gonna say a return guest. It's not really a return guest on this show, but Matt Haviland, is with us. And Matt and his daughter are with us today, his daughter Olivia.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]: And Matt is a past guest of a past podcast that I did called Dads with Daughters about 4 years ago. And I'm really excited to be able to have Matt on, but also this time his daughter Olivia, to be able to talk about the relationship that they've been able to build together and also what they've learned along the way to share that with you. Matt, Olivia, thanks so much for being here today.

Matt Haviland [00:02:26]: Yeah, Chris, thanks again for having me back. And this is a really It's a really special moment to have Olivia with me today. So say hi.

Olivia Haviland [00:02:33]: Hi.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]: I'm really excited to have you both here. And I want to go back a little bit because I know, Olivia, you're 20. You know, you're an adult now. You're doing the life thing. You're doing the work thing. You're out there. And as you think back to the relationship that you've been able to build with your dad, what's one thing that your dad did for you that helped you and made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Olivia Haviland [00:03:02]: Um, I would say in high school, I was struggling a lot with my mental health. And then I was getting myself into a little bit of trouble. And he didn't ground me. Well, there was like boundaries where he grounded me a little bit, but he was more open to like listening as of like why I did the things that I did, instead of just like not hearing me out and just screaming at me, taking my phone, not letting me hang out with my friends and everything. So that meant a lot to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:32]: And Matt, I guess, take me back to that point for you, because I know you had your own journey as a youth and went through your own stuff. And we talked about, we talked about a lot of that in the first interview that we did. So talk to me about that for you and hearing that from Olivia and how you had to be able to kind of take what you learned to be able to help her?

Matt Haviland [00:03:57]: Yeah, I was very grateful for a lot of the experiences that I had, not only personally but also professionally or through mentorship as well. I guess where I can go with that, Chris, is Olivia was born when I was 30 years old, so I wasn't super young. So by the time she's in high school, you know, I'm in my mid-40s. I would like to say I've learned a few things over those 14 or 15 years of parenting her, but I also Just like a lot of people, either parents or— I, I work with fathers also in a professional setting. You know, we learn a lot from our own previous experiences. So the things my own parents did or did not do, so learning how to correct that and apply that as much as possible. Plus working in a fatherhood field for so long, I've obviously picked up tips, either again things that I've taught guys or other men have taught me as well. But it really becomes a lot different instead of me just telling a dad what to do when I actually have to live this out.

Matt Haviland [00:04:54]: But I think I could attribute a lot of it to— I was at a conference many years ago, probably 2010, 2012, and they revealed a survey result, a national survey, and they said all these teen kids wish their dad would fill in the blank. And the number one answer was listen more. And that was something that, just like Olivia just said, instead of flying off the handle, telling her how much trouble she's in, let me hear her out first.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:18]: Yeah.

Matt Haviland [00:05:19]: And then we can go from there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]: Now I know that a lot of times, Matt, we as fathers are trying to build those moments, those meaningful moments that connect us with our kids. And what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with Olivia and what made it so special?

Matt Haviland [00:05:35]: Okay, she said the water fight, so clearly that must have been one. It was April Fool's Day, probably about 4 or 5 years ago. She pranked me in the house and that turned out to a full-blown squirt gun war in the house, actually Super Soakers in the house.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:49]: Well, I pranked him once and then he forgot to take the tape off the faucet and pranked himself again.

Matt Haviland [00:05:55]: Yeah, she did the old, you know, she tied the rubber band around the sprayer on the kitchen sink. So when I turned on the kitchen sink faucet, it hit me, and then I shut it off and hit myself again. And yes, that is a very— we're gonna remember that forever, having a squirt gun fight in the house. Not recommended. My wife had something to say about it when she got home, but it was very meaningful. Another really meaningful moment on a more emotional level was a couple years ago, Olivia wrote a paper for college, and they were to choose somebody that's inspired them inspired them, and she wrote the paper about me. And it starts out with the words, I am who I am today because of my dad. And I don't think, Christopher, I don't think there's any greater words that a parent can hear than something like that.

Matt Haviland [00:06:34]: And she went on to say a lot of like what she just said about me being there and communicating with her mom and just so many other things. So that was a special moment. The fact that of all the times I've screwed up as a dad over, at that point, over 18 years, and then just to receive the gift like that that says, no, Dad, you did a lot of screwing up, but you did it right as well. And Really, that meant so much. To this day, there's no greater gift I've ever been given than that paper.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]: And Olivia, what are some things that you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship?

Olivia Haviland [00:07:05]: I don't know. I can't really think of much because from our situation of like me growing up, it was really hard to make time to see me and everything, but he was doing all that he could. From what I noticed, I would just say maybe less of the dad jokes for sure. On a serious note, I can only flash back to when I was little and I wish he learned to cook more things rather than turkey burger and rice and sometimes mac and cheese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]: That's fair.

Matt Haviland [00:07:35]: I was a bachelor for 29 years. Okay, so but just for your audience though, to just kind of backtrack our story, I was a single dad, Olivia's mom and I never married. So I was a single father for the first 9 years of her life too. So just trying to navigate what that was like raising a child in 2 different homes.

Olivia Haviland [00:07:52]: Because rules would would be different at my mom's and then rules would be different here. I would say like not anything that he could do different, but like something I take back is like when we would get in arguments, I would like not talk to him for the rest of the night. But like, he— I'm thankful that you respected my space, but I kind of wish you would have like pushed me a little bit to like talk more. But other than that, I can't really think of anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]: Now, Matt, all of us are trying to help our daughters to be able to become the people that they're becoming. Talk to me about how you you balanced guiding Olivia while also giving her the independence to grow into the person that she has become?

Matt Haviland [00:08:31]: Yeah, speaking from personal experience, so being a single father— and I've often defined single dads especially as it could be a man who has full custody, maybe it's split custody, maybe it's minimal custody— I would be what was defined as a non-custodial parent, meaning I had less than 50% of the parenting time. Because of that, I was really intentional about the time I had with her. But I think that's just a good lesson for any parent, is to be intentional intentional. I have the privilege of working with new first-time fathers in some of the work that I do, and I'll talk to them about making time for their kids. You know, there's a great quote that says, you'll never have the time for your kids, you have to make time. There's no other way. And really putting that into practice, um, you know, you go to parks— and this isn't to shame anybody listening, but it's a good reminder— and you'll see all the parents looking down at their phones while the kids are playing. And it's about getting engaged in their life.

Matt Haviland [00:09:24]: And I think for having Olivia, because I didn't have her all the time. I did not want to take her time— the time with her for granted. But any— even for parents that are raising their kids together in the same household, I mean, the reminder still goes that there's no greater gift that we can give our kids than our time. And being present isn't just being in the same room, it's being, you know, mentally and emotionally present. And I know there's probably a lot of people that have heard that before, but I think it's true. I mean, just to be there, to be involved with raising kids— yes, you're going to have the serious moments, But then also, it's just kind of spending time together. Maybe it's going for a walk, and maybe at first it's a goofy conversation, or, or it's, uh, it gets more serious. When I had Olivia, the average drive home to her mom was about 15 or 20 minutes each way.

Matt Haviland [00:10:09]: So every time I picked her up, I mean, that's 20 minutes of car time that we can kind of talk a little bit. So I think it was not just anything one specific, but it was just that continual over and over and over for 18 years of trying to be as intentional as I can, listening to her, correcting mistakes when I, I can, and then Everybody will say it, she is a carbon copy of me. She is literally— I mean, she's cuter than me, but just, I mean, personality-wise, she is a carbon copy.

Olivia Haviland [00:10:36]: We stand the same.

Matt Haviland [00:10:37]: Yeah, our mannerisms are all the same. But really understanding that too, that I'm looking in a mirror here. So when I am raising her, disciplining her, engaging with her, how would I react to that as well?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:49]: And speaking to that, Olivia, how has your relationship with your dad influenced the way in which you navigate life, relationships, or challenges? challenges today?

Olivia Haviland [00:10:59]: Um, I would say, I mean, definitely he— I obviously wasn't alive, but he did struggle when he was a teenager and in his 20s. And I feel like when I got into that point, when I was getting in some trouble my sophomore year of high school and everything, just like for him to know exactly what it was like to do the same things helped him guide me out of it instead of, like I said earlier, yelling at me, screaming at me. He would actually like hear me out and be like, hey, I was in your position once and this is how I got through it. But he would also always bring faith into it and keep me strong in my faith. Like he would always end a conversation with a Bible verse or bring in a passage or a verse just to help me through something.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]: Now, Matt, we talked about— Olivia's just talking about some challenging times, and all of us go through those challenging times as we're raising kids. There's great times and there's where you might hit rock bottom as well. And what are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Olivia, especially during those challenging times?

Matt Haviland [00:12:05]: I've always had, since I've become a dad, and I am one to really— I'm a huge advocate for everyone to have a mentor. You know, I've always had a mentor. I wasn't raised in a two-parent home. My parents were never married. My dad was minimally engaged in my life. So not having that strong father figure in my life, growing up and understanding what that's like. But when I did become a dad, I've always had strong mentor men in my life in various capacities. Some might be in work, some might be in parenting, or whatever it may be.

Matt Haviland [00:12:38]: So I think being able to talk it through with a mentor who also was a father, and maybe even perhaps depending on who it was, a grandfather— so a mentor just being somebody that's a little older and has more experience And hearing that out. And Chris, there was a ton of mistakes along the way. I mean, I'm not going to lie. There was— I've had some really bad moments as parents, never in a, like, an abusive way or anything, but where I really dropped the ball. And just understand, I don't ever want to feel like that again. Apologizing to her, admitting that I screwed up and doing my best not to go through that again. But by the time she was really struggling, especially in the late middle school, early high school years, again, by this point, I'm in my mid-40s. I had been parenting her for a long time.

Matt Haviland [00:13:22]: So, I knew Olivia. I was able to read her cues. And, I understand that might be a little different in every family dynamic, but I was able to read her cues. And, the girl talks all the time. So, when Olivia's quiet, there's obviously there's something going on. And, like she said, I mean, I was in some— my teen and 20s were some pretty dark years in my life and never wanting her to go through that. I struggled with substance abuse and a lot of other I didn't go that far. No, but I'm just saying I didn't want you to go that far.

Matt Haviland [00:13:53]: So being able to kind of curb that beforehand. But there's always— I think there also was a special bond. And again, this isn't to take away from anybody in other family dynamics, but because I was a single father, when I had Olivia, it was me and Olivia. So for 9 years, it was just us. We were like a team, you know? And just to be able to read— and I mean, she's my heart, and I wanted to in so many ways, give her what I was never given from an upbringing even though it wasn't perfect because she was still being raised in 2 different homes. But nonetheless, giving her the holidays or the Christmases or the love—

Olivia Haviland [00:14:28]: Dance recitals and games.

Matt Haviland [00:14:29]: Yeah, attending. My dad made 2 of my baseball games over 12 years. And, I was at almost every game I could make for her or her dance recitals and understanding how important that is for her to look out in the crowd And to see me there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]: You know, Olivia, earlier I asked your dad about how he worked to be able to provide you with that independence that you needed. Talk to me on your side of how your dad encouraged you to be confident and independent in your life.

Olivia Haviland [00:14:56]: I would say he's always been my biggest cheerleader, even if it's loud and obnoxious at my games. Or there was one time he was saying how much he loved me in the middle of McDonald's, just screaming it.

Matt Haviland [00:15:09]: On purpose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:10]: On purpose.

Matt Haviland [00:15:11]: To embarrass her on purpose.

Olivia Haviland [00:15:12]: But I would say, like, he's always been like, he'll send me a, hey, good morning, I hope you have an amazing day. It's not every day, but I think that's what makes it more special is that it'll be like out of the blue or it'll be like a Bible verse or like I'll tell him, I'm like, hey, I had a really bad day today. And then he'll send me a Bible verse or be like, hey, I have time to call. I would say that's really encouraging. And then also just like, you know, I'll be at work and then he'll show up and bring Dunkin' or Subway, just like showing that even like if he can see me for 5 minutes, like it still matters. So that means a lot to me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]: And Matt, we talked before we started today about what Olivia is doing and she's working in healthcare right now. And I guess as you have been fathering Olivia, how do you support Olivia in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Matt Haviland [00:16:04]: Great question. I, first of all, I'm very impressed because Olivia has a career focus already at 20. And I know that's not rare, but I, at 20, I mean, I was completely in the opposite direction. So I'm already just so proud of her because, I mean, she is very motivated, she's very determined, she has an excellent work ethic. I mean, she works hard and she really respects the job that she has, even if she doesn't like it a lot. So, so to encourage her again— Yeah, she likes her job right now, so that's good. But to encourage her, I would say again, just listening, kind of maybe as she's talking, processing, like, okay, what's this going to look like in your life? Is this going to require more schooling? Sometimes I ask her questions like, how do you see this playing out long-term? If you want to get advanced in your career, what's that going to look like? How's that going to affect the other areas of your life? And kind of just helping her think through. You know, she doesn't have all the weight that, you know, we as adults have right now, you know, carrying a lot of mortgages or payments or, you know, other bigger obligations.

Matt Haviland [00:17:09]: Not to minimize what she's doing, but—

Olivia Haviland [00:17:10]: Right.

Matt Haviland [00:17:11]: But she has some opportunity and some room right now to really dream, like, hey, what do I want to do for a career? And if I do change my career, that's okay. But she has tremendous skills. I think that's one thing, is to let her know what skills she has. She's definitely a people person. She has a hard work ethic. She's a great communicator. So just kind of saying, hey, these are the things you're really good at. So where would that fit for you in your career field?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:35]: And Olivia, if you could spend an entire day with your dad doing anything, what would it look like?

Olivia Haviland [00:17:39]: Oh, no. No signs, no dad jokes. That would be—

Matt Haviland [00:17:44]: You gotta explain the signs.

Olivia Haviland [00:17:46]: He is obsessed. I will be trying, like, you know, we go to a zoo, I want to see the animals, and he's like, oh, I want to know where the animals lived, um, where they came from, how old are they, how many, like, claws do they have, how many teeth. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, I just— I want to see the animals. And it kind of just began as, like, a running joke. Every time he sees a sign, he sends it to me. I reply with, I'm not reading that. But I would say a perfect day, honestly, I love our beach days because he's very— I mean, we're like the same person.

Olivia Haviland [00:18:19]: Like, we don't want to get out of the water, but we've always played stupid games like how many times can we catch the ball in a row throwing trick shots. And then like during COVID we were hitting a ball on our roof with a tennis racket, like, and made that like a whole summer competition. So I would say just like Like little games, like beach day getaway, just the two of us. And then probably Star Wars at the end. Star Wars are an old movie, but something we do like monthly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:48]: Sounds like a good day. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6, 6 more questions. And I usually ask them just to dads, but I'm gonna ask both of you some different questions or questions for both of you. Uh, first and foremost, Olivia, what's one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:04]: Comforting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:05]: And Matt, what's your word?

Matt Haviland [00:19:06]: I'd say solid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]: And Matt, what's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Matt Haviland [00:19:12]: I think it's honestly, it's been in multiple forms and it's what I've already mentioned. It's just spending time with them. Other things can wait. And I've heard a million different quotes in that way, but it all boils down to spending undivided, just they got my attention or she has my attention. Everything else can wait and it's just our time. So yeah, time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:33]: And Olivia, what's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:37]: I would honestly say, like, like he said earlier, the, like, talking me through it. Where can you see yourself from this? Let's, you know, visualize what even is it gonna look like in a month versus 5 years. And I would say that's gotten me a lot of places because before I make decisions now, I always, like, stop and think, like, hey, like, I may like it right now, but in 3 months, am I gonna like what I'm doing? In a year, am I gonna like what I'm doing? Am I gonna wanna be doing this when I'm older?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]: Yeah.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:06]: I'm 60 or 70 years old kind of thing. So I would say that's gotten me far in a lot of places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]: Matt, what's one activity that you and Olivia love doing together?

Matt Haviland [00:20:15]: You're gonna appreciate this one, Christopher. Going to University of Michigan football games.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:20]: Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]: And I'm gonna throw it back to you too, Olivia. And it doesn't have to be the same thing. It'd be something different.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:25]: Daddy-daughter dances or like donuts with dad or anything that's like one-on-one mini golf, golf, and football games, definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:33]: Matt, if you could give Olivia one life lesson in a single sentence, What would it be?

Matt Haviland [00:20:37]: Love God, love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]: And Matt, what's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Matt Haviland [00:20:42]: I think—

Olivia Haviland [00:20:43]: The girl version of you.

Matt Haviland [00:20:45]: That too. But I would say since becoming a dad, I think you learn how the word selfish feels strong, but I don't think it's out of line of when it's just us. But when it was just me as a single dad or a single man versus becoming a father, it was all about me. I tell my new guys, I think I think being a parent drives you to a level of commitment to your children that would not be attained any other way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]: And Olivia, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Olivia Haviland [00:21:16]: I would say put aside anything that can wait, and then also listen before either conversating or just listen to the full story instead of, like, interrupting, getting down to the point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:32]: And Matt?

Matt Haviland [00:21:32]: Yeah, I think it's so important to live out your values and what's important to your family. We have a culture that is in many ways just so antagonistic and assaulting our daughters, and to be able to speak against that, letting our daughters know how beautiful they are, how valued they are, their virtue, their beauty, their tenderness. And this is an appropriate conversation for whether you're raising a 5-year-old or a 20-year-old as well.

Olivia Haviland [00:21:58]: I would also always say time over items too, because I know A lot of my friends' parents will be like at work because they work third shift or something. They'll be like, here's money to go get something because I didn't see you all day, or here's money because I yelled at you kind of thing, instead of just sitting down, actually talking everything out. It helps grow a relationship too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:20]: Well, Matt, Olivia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for spending time with me today, for sharing your journey in your own relationship. Matt is an author as well, and I should mention that he did write a book a number of years back called A Father's Walk, a Christian-based resource for single fathers. And if people want to find out more about you, Matt, and what you're doing, where should they go?

Matt Haviland [00:22:43]: I don't have a website, but you can email me. I'm completely open to that. My email is [email protected]. That's a fathers with an S on the end, walk at Gmail.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]: Well, again, I want to say thank you. Thank you to both of you for your time, for sharing your And I wish you both all the best.

Matt Haviland [00:23:01]: Thanks, Christopher.

Olivia Haviland [00:23:01]: Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:02]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:23:33]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

If you're a dad on a mission to forge a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, "The Dad and Daughter Connection" should be your next podcast download. In a recent episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with John Azoni, a father of two daughters (ages 9 and 11), who opens up about the real joys and sometimes messy challenges of raising confident, independent girls.

Intentionality and Presence From the very start, Dr. Christopher Lewis sets the tone: fatherhood isn't about achieving perfection, but about truly connecting and learning as you go. Each week, the podcast dives into stories and practical advice to help dads show up with intention. As John Azoni shares, "There's no one right way to father our daughters," but we can always add new tools to our toolbox by learning from each other.

Creating Meaningful Memories A standout theme of this episode is making memories, both big and small. John Azoni recounts an unforgettable trip to Japan with his daughter for her 10th birthday—a tradition inspired by a parenting book. But the heart of the conversation reveals that it's often the simplest moments, like cooking together or going for wonton soup every Thursday, that mean the most. One-on-one time, even a half hour at bedtime, can become the foundation for lifelong connections.

Honesty, Growth, and Mistakes Both John Azoni and Dr. Christopher Lewis candidly discuss the challenges—especially during difficult times like COVID or navigating questions around faith. John Azoni is honest about making mistakes, from losing patience to not always having the answers. The key lesson? "I make a lot of mistakes and I've learned to be okay with that… I want my kids to grow up and know their dad was crazy about them."

Encouragement to Other Dads The episode wraps with powerful advice: Be intentional. Don't let stress distract you from what really matters. As John Azoni puts it, "The grass is greener where you water it"—the relationships you invest in now will shape the future.

If you're a dad, or know someone who is, this episode is a must-listen. It's a heartfelt reminder that showing up, being present, and embracing imperfection are the real keys to building an unbreakable bond with your daughter.

Listen to the full episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection to get inspired and start your journey toward a stronger relationship today!

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with one another and work on building those that we want with our daughters one day at a time. I love that you come back every week because all of us are on a journey. Whether you have toddlers, whether you have a baby at home, whether you have teenagers at home, whether you have adult kids, we all are on this continuum of being a father to a daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]: And we can always learn more. We can always learn more to help us to be able to be better in the role that we have. We're gonna stumble, we're gonna fall, That's okay. All of us do it. There's no one right way to father our daughters. But what we can do is we can learn from other dads what's working for them, what's not working for them, and build some tools for our own toolbox, add some tools for our own toolbox, and be able to get just that much better every day because that's what we need to be doing. to be able to be there for our daughters. That's what we need to be doing to be able to be present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]: And I am really excited to have another new guest this week. John Azoni is with us today, and John's a father of 2 daughters who are 9 and 11. And we're gonna be talking about the journey that he's been on with his daughters. And I'm really excited to have him here today. John, thanks so much for being here.

John Azoni [00:02:15]: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:17]: You know, it's really, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today and to be able to talk to you about the journey that you have been on thus far with your daughters. And I guess one of the things that I always think about when it comes to raising our daughters is we're always running after those moments. We want those moments with our kids. And as you think back to the years that you've had with your daughters thus far, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with them and what made it so special? And one thing I'll add is they could be separate moments as well.

John Azoni [00:02:49]: So I read this book a number of years ago called Love Does. The author is Bob Goff and it's a faith-based book. And in it, he talks a lot about parenting. parenting. And he told the story of taking his kids when they turned 10 on a trip anywhere in the world they want to go to, really leaning into what is it that they are becoming, what is it that they're interested in, and, and where can we go in the world to kind of deepen that. And so I always thought that that was a cool idea. And my daughter, when she turned 10 last year, my daughter Ellie, in my mind I was kind of like maybe somewhere in the United States. I don't remember explicitly saying anywhere in the world.

John Azoni [00:03:25]: So when my daughter was like, I want to go to Japan, I was like, oh, okay. Well, so after a lot of hemming and hawing, I talked to my wife. She's like, just do it. It's like once in a lifetime. We're like, all right, we're going to Japan. So, so we went to Tokyo last May and it was so cool just to learn about another culture together, to really press into, you know, the stuff that she likes. She's really into K-pop. It's obviously not in Korea, but somewhere over there.

John Azoni [00:03:54]: She's into that kind of Asian culture and Hello Kitty. And they have the biggest Hello Kitty store in the world there, uh, video games and arcades where she can and do all the— she loves playing those claw games, which are really popular in Asian countries. So, so it was great. I mean, we just traveled around, we ate good food, we went to Paris Disney, um, and just spent a week together. That— and, and even just like, it was a pretty short trip, but— and people were like, well, you're just going for like 5 days? Like, aren't you gonna be— I mean, like, a big part of that is just traveling, you know? By the time you get there, I think we had 3 full days there. And I was just like, you know, it's, it's the adventure. It's like traveling is, is part of it. We're gonna learn how to do the airport together.

John Azoni [00:04:30]: So on the way there, I kind of led the charge, but on the way back I was like, All right, where do you think we should turn to get to baggage claim or stuff like that? Or where do you think we should go to get our bags checked? So that was fun. And, you know, I've had other special experiences with my youngest daughter, Ryland. Currently though, we're planning her trip. She wants to go to Paris. So we're planning on going to Paris next year.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:50]: Those will be experiences that they will never forget. And definitely you don't have to do these huge moments. They can be small moments as well. But I had an experience like that last year with my oldest who is in college, but she was out in Colorado and I picked her up from a camp she was working in and we spent a week going to all the national parks all around in that area. So we went to Zion and Bryce and Grand Canyon and Petrified Forest, all kinds of places. And we hiked and we just had an amazing experience. And I think when you have those opportunities, not only are they great opportunities to be able to have to build memories, but you have time one-on-one. And I think that's even more important.

John Azoni [00:05:32]: Yeah, one-on-one time is really special. So last weekend, my oldest daughter went to Florida with my wife because she does dance, and her dance group went to go perform at Disney in the parade. And so that was just a life dream of hers. And she got this one-on-one time with my wife. And previously, we were kind of like, all right, we're Disney'd out. We've been to Disney World. We've been on a Disney cruise. I took Ellie to Disney in Tokyo.

John Azoni [00:05:58]: And we've been to Disneyland when we went to California last year. And my wife was kind of like, all right, this is the last time I got to go to Disney. And then I get a text from her in the middle of it. She's like, this is so great. It's such a different experience being one-on-one with Ellie and we're just having the best time. And at the same time, I'm home with Ryland and we had our own special weekend. We, you know, wrote on the whiteboard, here's all the things we wanna do and we wanna schedule all these things out. Anytime you can write a list on a whiteboard for my youngest, she's all about it.

John Azoni [00:06:27]: She loves to just like have a checklist, have a plan. So one-on-one time is something completely different that you just cannot replace.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]: Now you talked a little bit about on that trip to Tokyo, giving your daughter some independence to be able to make some decisions and things like that. And, and as our kids are getting older, we definitely have to do that. How are you finding that you're balancing not only guiding your daughters, but also giving them the independence to grow into the people that they're becoming?

John Azoni [00:06:52]: Oh, that's a tough question. I try to lean into who are they and what is, what is my role in this? Like one of the things that I learned about Ellie on that Japan trip is how scrappy she is. And it's so different for me. Like she has no problem going up and asking a stranger where to get directions. Or one time we were on the bus going somewhere in Tokyo and some lady was lost. And for some reason my daughter stepped in and starts trying to tell her where to go as if she knows where to go. I'm like, Ellie, where do you think you're sending her? She just wants to get in there. And I'm just very like, I don't like to be embarrassed.

John Azoni [00:07:27]: I don't like to ask for help. I'm a lot more shy, but she kind of lifts me up in that way. I really try to get on that level with her and also just try to let her be who she is and go out into the world and just talk to new people like her mom does. But I think it's always a challenge where to step in. I think the biggest area that we are struggling with that right now is, is in faith. And I don't know if you're a person of faith, but when I got married, my wife and I were both devout Christians. And over the last 5 years, I've kind of deconstructed and my faith has evolved in a way— I wouldn't say I'm not a believer, but I would say like I just have so many questions that I'm allowing myself to ask. And I'm engaging in these conversations with what I grew up believing versus what can be verified and things like that.

John Azoni [00:08:13]: So I'm kind of down this more scientific path. My wife isn't. How do we let our kids discover things on their own? And what do we teach them about the world? That's been really hard because when you're defining your parenthood around an entire ideology, like a religion, and that's the lens that you're giving your kids, and that's the lens you're told to give your kids, you're instructed to teach them in this way. Well, now when you throw questions into the mix, mom and dad have different answers for what do you do? So I think we've kind of landed on. We want our kids to think independently. And when one of my kids has a tough question, I'll say, well, here's what I think. Here's what I'm not sure about. Like, here's what I have questions about.

John Azoni [00:08:55]: Here's what your mom thinks. And you can kind of make up your own decision. And that was also never more true in, you know, this most recent election. You know, my oldest had a lot of questions about who was running for president, who was the good guy, and who was the bad guy. And it's easy to want to pick a side and train your kid on that side. But we really tried to just step back and be like, well, Well, here's what this side says. Here's what that side says. What do you think? And so that's kind of where we've landed, I think, giving them some scaffolding, but letting them kind of figure it out themselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:26]: And as you've been starting to do that with your daughters, especially around this faith journey, what has their response been?

John Azoni [00:09:33]: It's tough because they knew me when we were all praying every night and putting them to bed and going to church all the time and, you know, all this stuff. And so they've seen me kind of drift and ask these questions that they look at me as I'm supposed to have the answers To these, you're supposed to know if if Adam and Eve are real people or not. And so that's been tough. You know, their response has been honestly one of confusion. I wish I had a glossy answer for you. It's not gone great. It's very tough to navigate. And like I said, you know, we just go back to like here's what two different people can think, and we can hold two different things in tension.

John Azoni [00:10:11]: And certainly the Bible, there are a lot of instances where the Bible is represented as God holding two. seemingly opposing things in tension together and somehow making it work. So we kind of go with that. But yeah, I wish I could tell you that it's gone. It's just been perfect. And they're— they have all the answers that I don't have. But anytime you're trying to sort through something on your own and your kid's looking to you for the answer, that's just a tough position to be in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:36]: It is a tough place to be because, I mean, you try to have that solid front on everything in parenting because when you don't have the solid front, then things tend to go awry. So I think what you're hearing here, though, is that John and his wife still have a solid front, but they're attacking it in different ways. And they're providing their kids the ability to be able to move in the direction that makes more sense for them. That doesn't mean that they're not in alignment on other things in their parenting journey, though.

John Azoni [00:11:07]: Yeah, I would liken it to, like, giving them— I mentioned the term scaffolding, and I really like that term. And I would just say, So we've just really widened the scaffolding around faith to where we're still in this box. But what that looks like on a day-to-day basis or on an individual beliefs basis can look different. And 2 people can arrive at different conclusions and still have the same heart.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:31]: So as you think about your daughters and you think about what you've been doing with your daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during times that might be more challenging?

John Azoni [00:11:43]: COVID was a time of obviously being sort of forced into this intentional time. And at first it was very stressful because at the time I had a salaried job and a certain amount of PTO days and I'm a rule follower. So if I say I'm working, but I'm off at the park with the kids, like I don't, I don't feel good about that. But like there was all this stuff that you had to do from out of necessity during that time. So it was a stressful time, but it also kind of caused me to be like, let's really soak this up. And so we did a lot of stuff together as a family, but that actually led me to leave that job. and start my own company, my own video production company. And for a big reason was to be more flexible with them and to be able to be home with them and be there when they need me and not have to worry about PTO.

John Azoni [00:12:28]: And so that's opened the doors to a lot of great times where I might be right in the middle of a busy project and I would get a call from the school. And my oldest, Ellie, she was the one that would call home a lot. She would feel a stomachache or something and she'd feel like she needed to go home. And we would have to navigate like a lot of times, like, what is the line that Where Dad will pick you up and where you need to tough it out. But there's a lot of times where I could have been really stressed about work, but I had to just really be like, you know what, I'm just— I'm gonna go pick her up. I'm gonna be happy about it. I'm gonna have a smile on my face. I'm gonna make her feel like Dad wants to be here.

John Azoni [00:13:01]: Dad cares about me. He's not annoyed with me. You know, I think just those small acts have been great. And I remember, you know, other times too, just a lot of our special times revolve around food.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:12]: Yeah.

John Azoni [00:13:13]: It seems like every Thursday, a number of years ago when Ellie was in preschool, she would have a half day. And so I'd pick her up and every Thursday we'd go get wonton soup on the way home at this Chinese restaurant. And we learned— Dad stepped out of his comfort zone and learned the owner of the restaurant's name so that when we called, we can say, hey, Lynn, our usual. She wanted that. Like, that would just be so cool. And so eventually she started calling and being like, hi, Lynn, it's Ellie, just our usual. And then we'd go pick it up. But we cook a lot together too.

John Azoni [00:13:42]: My daughters each really enjoy cooking and no matter what we're making, just spending time together. And that's where I think one-on-one time is really important because trying to cook with both of them at the same time is just a constant referee of who got to chop what, who got to pour this, who cracked the last egg, you know. So I found just one at a time, we'll have a great time together, but let's just, you know. So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of opportunities, but I think it's a lot in those small moments where it's like my natural reaction might be to be stressed or just to be worried about the day-to-day. stuff, but like my daughters are looking to me as like, am I liked? Like, am I loved in this moment? Am I safe in this moment? Does my dad want to be here? And I really try to, to just put on a smile and just be like, you know what, this— because one of the things I say, I started saying since I started my own business was my business is in service of my kids, not in spite of them. And that's a tough thing to, to stick to because whether or not something gets done has a very real consequences about whether, whether income comes in the door. But, but the reason why I— half the reason I started my own company was to be there for my kids and to not miss this time with them. And so, so yeah, that's kind of how I think about work and spending time with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:01]: All of us as dads, we're not perfect. We make mistakes. And while we try our best to be the best we can, we're going to make mistakes. We're fallible. We're humans. What's a mistake that you made as a father? And what did What did it do, or what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication and connection with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:15:20]: I think it's a pattern of mistakes. And when I get overstimulated, when there's too many people talking to me at once, I get immediate, like 0 to 100 stressed out. And that's— I'm so likely to just lash out and like snap and say something, tell them to be quiet, but in a rude way that we're not allowed to say. So that's where it's such a tension of like, because they're both in the back talking like peak back-talking phase. And honestly, my youngest is the most cutting about it. I mean, she will just go right for the jugular. And they talk back usually as a reaction and not as a response, like not as an intentional response. So when I'm feeling stressed or overwhelmed and I lash out, I'm not doing any service to them.

John Azoni [00:16:06]: It's very hypocritical to tell them that's not how we talk to people. And then just in a, in a different way or a different use of words, I do the same thing. So I think that's— I think we're all learning together. How to regulate ourselves. My wife is a therapist, and so we've learned a lot about the concept of regulation, and we've read a lot of parenting books about when your kids make you mad or something, or they say something completely disrespectful, they're dysregulated. They're not really choosing that response. And so your job as a parent is to be the one that regulates, not escalates. And so that's— that is the toughest thing for me, like— I have to really think I'm feeling myself escalating this situation and I need to be the, I need to be the regulator.

John Azoni [00:16:50]: So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's just a slurry of thoughts of, of communication between me and my kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:58]: No, I appreciate you sharing that because I think it is important to understand that that happens. I mean, and we're going to, things are going to adjust and, you know, and all of us get overwhelmed at times. And especially these days, there's so many things being thrown at every one of us. And whether it's technology, whether it's, you know, whatever, there are so many things that are being thrown at each one of us, not only us, but our kids, etc. So it is important to know that. And then finding ways to be able to quiet the noise, not only for ourselves, but quiet the noise for our kids, I think is also important as we think about our— the way in which we're fathering. Because if we know— if you know that you're triggered when that happens, you have to figure out for yourself, and you've probably already done that, is What can you do to quiet the noise so that you can continue being present and continue, continue being who you want to be with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:17:51]: Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:52]: So there's been a lot of things that you've talked about where you're showing that you're doing some intentional things to really connect with your daughters. What do you do intentionally to make your daughters feel valued and heard?

John Azoni [00:18:04]: I think it's just trying to get on their level and care about the things that they care about. My youngest, it's always was so funny, and we, my wife and I laugh about this. We would pick her up from daycare when she was younger, you know, 3, 4 years old. And that could be a very stressful moment because we're also picking up my oldest from daycare and she's wanting to do something. Can we go out for ice cream? Or when's mom going to be home? Blah, blah, blah. And again, too many people talking to me at once. And my youngest, all she wants to do in that moment is show me the drawings that she made and show me the little worksheets that she did. And it's so important to her.

John Azoni [00:18:38]: And she feels, you can just see the receiving of love when you look at her and you care about what she wrote, that she wrote her name or that she did something, that she wrote, she counted to 10 or whatever it is. And so, I mean, we have stacks and stacks of paper because that behavior has never stopped. She's almost 9 and she still to this day wants to show us everything. She went to this art camp a couple weeks ago, made all kinds of art. And the first thing she wants to do when we get in the car is like, Dad, let me show you what I made. And it's so important that I give her my full attention. And I can get on board with that because I'm— my background's in fine arts. I'm a painter.

John Azoni [00:19:14]: So I went to art school and all that stuff. So that's a perfect thing for me to like get on board with. I think just, yeah, finding in those moments, what are they really trying to say right now? What they're really trying to say is, Dad, I want to connect with you. Not like, not necessarily about the papers or the drawings or whatever. And I find that with my oldest too. She's starting to outgrow like bedtime, but she still wants me to put her to bed. And, you know, and I'm kind of just like clinging to that for as long as possible. And we just have the best talks.

John Azoni [00:19:43]: Like, there's just no greater conversation than when we're just— I'm just laying in her bed with her next to her and we're just, just talking about whatever, just laughing about things. I mean, so much laughter happens in those moments. And I listen when I'm putting my other daughter to bed, my wife's putting Ellie to bed, I hear them cracking up too because they just get into the funniest, you know, they just become a new person. They feel so safe. And so I think just being intentional about those moments, because sometimes I'm like, I'm tired, it's 9:30, I got to get up at 5 in the morning. I don't want to spend a half an hour, you know, laying, laying with you and waiting for you to brush your teeth and waiting for you to put your pajamas on. And it's getting towards 10 o'clock now. And so I try, but I try to really push that aside and say, hey, she's, she's not going to ask me to do this for much longer.

John Azoni [00:20:29]: And in 5 years, I'm going to miss any, any attention she gave me, like her wanting to actually hang out with me, because it's going to be the other way around. So, so I think it's just, I think it's just recognizing in those moments what's really most important and then just leaning into that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:45]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:52]: Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]: Humor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:57]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you ever received?

John Azoni [00:21:02]: It's probably from when you're walking around a grocery store and you get like a whole stream of like elderly men that will say, I remember when my daughter was that age and then she started driving the next day. Like, don't miss it. I really actually took advice to heart, like what I just said. I'm like, there's gonna be a time when they're not gonna want to hang out with me, so don't miss it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:20]: What's one activity you and your daughters love doing together?

John Azoni [00:21:24]: Cooking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:25]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

John Azoni [00:21:30]: I think just don't change for other people. Don't be the person that you're with. I think like maybe girls especially start dating and things like that, they want to change to be liked and to impress and things like that. And so I think my advice would just be to just be yourself and be What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? I have learned, I have learned that I make a lot of mistakes and I've learned to be okay with that. I just want my kids to grow up and know that their dad was crazy about them. And for all my flaws, I want them to— I watched this video one time. It was my boss's. We did a story on my boss at the time at my old job, his family.

John Azoni [00:22:11]: And we interviewed his wife and they were talking about her parents and they asked her, what's your favorite thing about your dad? And she said, said how much he loves me. And she started crying. And I edited that video. So of course, I'm like, I'm like tearing up and like, you know, you got the music going and stuff like that in the edit, in the video edit. So, but I've always kept that with me as like, that's like my mantra as a dad. Like, I'm gonna mess up, but like, I want my kids to, to really feel and be imprinted with how like crazy I am about them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:39]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

John Azoni [00:22:48]: I think it's just being really intentional with them. I think for me, I just think about, it's like we have 18 years if we're lucky, and I want to build as many memories with them as possible. And I don't want to waste this being stressed about stuff that's just not going to matter in 50 years. And so, and I think about it the same way of like marriage advice. People contrast the saying of the grass is greener on the other side. side with, with saying the grass is greener where you water it. And I like that about marriage. And that's something that I keep in my mind.

John Azoni [00:23:20]: But I also think that that applies to kids too. I mean, the type of relationship that you're going to have with your kids now and when they're older is determined by how intentional you are in these early years and just watering that grass.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:34]: Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing what you shared with the journey that you've gone through. If people want to find out more about you, I know you got a podcast. Is there a place that people can go to find out more?

John Azoni [00:23:46]: Yeah, I'm very active on LinkedIn. My name's spelled J-O-H-N-A-Z-O-N-I if you're searching for me. That's probably where I hang out the most, on LinkedIn. I don't post a whole lot of family stuff, but once in a while you might get some sort of business advice through the lens of being a dad to 2 girls.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]: Well, again, John, thank you so much for being here, and I wish you all the best.

John Azoni [00:24:03]: Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:03]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect; it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:24:34]: We're all in the same boat. And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. So bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Are you a dad searching for practical ways to foster a stronger bond and raise your daughter to be capable, resilient, and self-assured? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Lenore Skenazy, journalist, author, and founder of the Free-Range Kids movement, for a timely, inspiring discussion on balancing love, trust, and independence in parenting.

One of the episode's powerful themes is how today's parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing "what ifs" from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children's experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential "trust loop," where letting children try things on their own—whether it's walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, "When adults step back, kids step up." True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they're small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own "let grow" experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you'll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

This episode isn't just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today's anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]: I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that's why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It's not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that's okay. That's why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I'm a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]: There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we've got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I'm really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you've ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you're going to enjoy today's conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she's an author, she's founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she's often called America's worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]: I'm really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we've become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad's been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what's one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]: Well, I'll tell you one of the things he didn't do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn't expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn't have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn't have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]: Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it's not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn't have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]: And that didn't bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]: As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]: Well, here's the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he's looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man's, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don't say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]: And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It's the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he's very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he'll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he's just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he's— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it's an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]: And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you're putting somebody else's emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]: And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it's the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what's your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]: Now, I know you said your dad's been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]: Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I'm pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and '20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we'd get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]: And God knows how many toothpicks he'd go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]: Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I'm going to say the world, because you've been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let's go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]: Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he'd never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we're always on the subways. We don't have a car and he's a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale's fancy department store where we don't shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]: So he'd never been there before. And it's built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today's the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]: He'd finally been let loose and he'd proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, 'cause it didn't strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I'll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That's wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]: But what if he wasn't? What if he'd been thrown on the tracks? What if he'd been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he'd been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that's what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you're not doing that too, if you're not saying, well, I'd like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who's, you know, 5'6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I'm not going to let her walk. And that's a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I've been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you'd have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]: How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]: Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]: Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]: Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]: Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]: Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]: Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]: Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]: Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]: Yeah, because it's an extraordinarily rare crime. It's not extraordinarily rare on TV. It's pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn't happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It's generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you're gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn't let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]: You know, there's drunk drivers out there, there's bad drivers out there, there's elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn't let them live in a house with stairs or there's a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you'll never see him again. And that's, that's as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it's like, I can't let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It's like, I'm really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it's like, well, you should be. It's like, but I'm not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]: Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I'm like, I'm just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don't care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]: You know, from everything I've seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]: But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]: from everything I've read, it seems like it's actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]: Well, I think you've nailed it. The way I've started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I'd love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I'd never see him again and I would— couldn't live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I'd be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won't let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]: It's sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It's not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend's house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you're sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there's horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]: First of all, you're a parent, you're going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you're— you, you've given birth to a child and now you're going to worry about them. There's no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they're thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they're a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn't remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you're so proud, right? You're so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you're a parent. I'll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]: You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she's out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]: Yeah, it's not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn't there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I've raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we're there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we're there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]: And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we're always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that's because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We've really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]: Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]: But look, that's part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don't get that. It's, it's the fun of— well, it's the fun of seeing your kid after you haven't seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you're so much taller and you've filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that's why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]: But it's also about Stepping back, because it's true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you're with your kids, you see what they're doing wrong. Oh, that's sloppy. That's a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn't do it that way. Here, let me help. It's just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]: It's not because you're a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It's because when you're with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don't want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids' adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that's free, free, free, free, um, that's called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents' permission. But without your parents. And then each month there's a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there's a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]: You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it's really just to create that action that I'm talking about, 'cause action breaks the cycle. You're afraid this'll be terrible. If you're really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend's kid go out together. They don't have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]: Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]: and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can't see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn't been the case. It's been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we're there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it's so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It's like, yeah, because they haven't eaten. They haven't eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]: And we've taken that out and we've given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I'd say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]: So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]: Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there's, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that's also just for home use, quote unquote. It's like a game. It's like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there's 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he's right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]: And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That's a very constricted childhood and that's a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that's the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it's, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody's doing it. You don't feel weird, you don't feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn't do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]: But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you're drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger's and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that's nice. Or the laundry. That's good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]: You know, it doesn't take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I've seen is that it's just this loosening. It's just a little loosening. There's a little bit of pride. There's a little bit of movement. And then it's like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What's a post office, Mom? I'll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]: So I'd say any movement is better than no movement, and it's often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]: What's some of your favorite stories of, we'll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]: This is the one that I've heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it's worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, 'cause it's almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She's sort of the apotheosis of what's happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who's 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It's, it's like, because someone's going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don't know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let's put it that way, or excessive, right? I won't say crazy, I'll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]: But anyways, he comes home, he's got the Let Grow experience, He's a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He's in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can't I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she's like, okay, because she's been— she's getting used to it. It's, you know, there's, there's a word in psychology, I think it's accommodating or whatever it is. She's getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]: And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there's 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]: Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]: And then they're all over the neighborhood and they're zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it's like locusts. They'll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she's now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]: live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she's also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can't believe it. I'm gonna call the school. You know, I'm gonna get out there. That's so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]: Don't worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we're handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can't keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let's call him Steve. You can't keep being mean to Steve. You know, that's just not fair, or, you know, we won't ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it's true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]: I guess as I think about what you're saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you're saying. So you talk about what you're doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]: A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They're not good helpers. They're terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they're part of. And so don't thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]: And then when they're older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it's really good advice. It'll take longer, but in the end, you'll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you're doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children's museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it's because they'll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]: And they told Group B, they'll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they're struggling with a button or a toggle, that's actually learning? They're learning every time they try to do something, even if they're not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]: And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that's just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]: that's very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can't show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, '90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]: That's all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they're going to be online. I would be too. It's the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]: So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we're going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]: Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]: Friday afternoons, I'm gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I'm not gonna be watching them, but there'll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they'll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there's, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]: Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]: Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I've been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor's wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you're trying something in the real world, at first you're not good at it, whether it's making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn't fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I've done something like that before, or, I've never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you're wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven't done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]: Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]: So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that's all I'm saying. It's just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]: Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]: First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I'm just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it's let's go or let it grow or let's get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it's letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it's actually quite hard, I don't know. It's let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]: So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They're gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she'd been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That's a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I'm gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What's one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]: Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]: Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]: As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]: I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there's a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you've heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can't make them into something. We can't make a physicist. We can't make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can't make a genius. You can't make a jerk. There's a lot that's innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]: Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]: And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can't make an Einstein and you can't really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]: Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you're doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I've fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we've done some good things too. But we've also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]: You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that's just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It's like, that's not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]: Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We're all humans and we're going to make mistakes. And I think that what you're doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]: Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect; it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]: We're all in the same boat. And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Hey everyone, I wanted to take a few minutes to share a little change that's coming to The Dad & Daughter Connection.

For the past several years, I've been bringing you a new episode every single week, and I am incredibly grateful for everyone who listens, shares an episode, recommends the podcast to a friend, or simply takes the time to tune in. This podcast means a lot to me, and getting to have conversations with amazing dads, daughters, authors, experts, and people who have something meaningful to teach us about fatherhood has been an incredible journey.

But I've also been reminded of something that I talk about on this podcast all the time: being present matters.

As much as I love doing this podcast, I'm also a dad, a husband, and someone with a lot of other responsibilities and commitments. And I've realized that trying to maintain a weekly schedule can sometimes mean I'm stretching myself a little too thin.

So, beginning today, The Dad & Daughter Connection will be moving from a weekly podcast to an every-other-week schedule.

Now, I want to be very clear: this isn't about slowing down or giving you less. In fact, it's about making sure I can continue giving you the kind of conversations and content you've come to expect from this podcast.

I want to have the time to find great guests, ask thoughtful questions, have meaningful conversations, and produce episodes that are worth your time. And just as importantly, I want to make sure I'm protecting time for the people who matter most to me—my family.

Because if I'm going to spend my time talking about the importance of being present for our daughters, I need to make sure I'm practicing what I preach.

So, you're still going to hear the stories, the conversations, the laughs, and hopefully a few things that make you think differently about being a dad and raising strong, confident, independent daughters. You'll just hear them every other week instead of every week.

I hope you'll stick with me for the journey. And if you've been listening all along, thank you. I truly appreciate you being part of The Dad & Daughter Connection community.

Until next time, keep connecting with your daughters, keep having those important conversations, and most importantly, keep showing up.

This week's episode of "The Dad and Daughter Connection" delves into the evolving journey of fatherhood, offering a heartfelt conversation with author and workplace culture expert Ed Frauenheim. Through candid storytelling and honest reflection, the episode explores what it really means to support our children—especially when their paths unfold in ways we never expected.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn't perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim's personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child's autonomy. He admits the journey wasn't always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It's the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child's evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you're a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It's a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn't about being perfect. It's about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: That's why, that's why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that'll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that's perfectly fine. What's important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don't work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we're going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]: He's a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he's also, also a father of 2. We're going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we're going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he's had to go through in this journey that he's been on as well. So I'm really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]: Thanks, Christopher. It's a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]: It's my pleasure having you here today. And I, I'm going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We're not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I'll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we're going to do is first we're going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]: And we're going to talk about some of the journey that you've been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we're going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]: Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]: And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]: Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I'm, I'm, I'm almost done. Why don't you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]: And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla's world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can't remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it's— I'm still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I'm trying to honor as best I can Skyla's non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]: And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn't have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla's will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn't so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]: All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that's very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]: I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I've been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you're not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn't. And I worried that Skyla's resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]: And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends' parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that's not governed by fear. Such that we didn't like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]: And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]: You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you're raising a child is It's going to be many times where it's going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]: I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla's soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]: We have that relationship of support, and it's been, it's been one of those intentional ways I've tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]: As I said, none of us are infallible. We're all humans. We're all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What's a mistake that you've made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]: Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn't doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might've been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I'm carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I'm walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]: And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we're gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn't do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]: And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]: You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that's age appropriate. Like you said, it's not always easy to determine and, and you're definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they're becoming, but also who we're becoming, and know that it's okay to trip, it's okay to fall, and it's okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I've heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I'm sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]: Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that's a great point you're making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to— and in fact, it's important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you're trying to get better. I think it's over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I've continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]: Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]: I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that's continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They're usually— they're a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It's also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I've really just tried to be there for them as they've tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]: Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it's still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it's very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]: Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]: is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I've given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]: So we've been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]: It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that's how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it's part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]: And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn't do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it's now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they've kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it's a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]: And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]: So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]: I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn't know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they're going to continue this path, and I'm excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I've become used to who they are. And I don't think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I've worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]: I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]: What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]: I'm guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it's funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn't say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don't care what pronouns I use. I'm trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they're less critical of me if I don't get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I'm going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]: I don't totally understand. what it means that I'm going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]: I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]: It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They're like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it's caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it's sexual orientation, Whether it's this gender identity, whether it's non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]: So I've been called to sort of be more courageous. That's one of the six C's they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I'll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I've had to live up to, and I'm glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I've gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one's challenged me to fight. I'm gonna have to fight you because you're a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]: I think a lot of guys, when they're given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they're hungry for it, and they're more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I've had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla's choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]: For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]: That's a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I'd love to talk about what you're reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you're going to define yourself. So announce that you're ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you're trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you're reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I'm thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]: I don't immediately have one in mind. You know, there's been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I'm even watching a series called La Brea. It's, I guess, some years old. It's on Netflix right now, and it doesn't have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I'm just thinking about how it doesn't have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]: You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you've gone through this, I'm sure that there have been moments, there's been things and things that you've learned and things that you've been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What's been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]: Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn't want to have hugs either. They didn't want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they're going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]: It actually may have helped that I've had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That's what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I'm just coming out of a year's worth of treatments. I'm cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]: And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don't know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I'm telling her to do their homework. So it's a delight, and I'm very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]: And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]: I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you're so clueless sometimes. And that's true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I'm the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla's papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it's accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don't think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]: They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they've been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn't taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don't think, maybe compared to someone who's identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don't know, but that— it's my sense is that it's more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]: I'm ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]: What's one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]: I'll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]: Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]: And what's one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]: Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]: And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]: To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven't always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]: What's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]: That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I'm pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]: I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they're pushing you away, And I'm not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you're there for them. You're ready to talk. You're ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]: Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]: I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I've been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]: Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You'll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you've learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]: Thank you so much, Christopher. And it's great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]: That's a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]: Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]: Be the best dad you can be.

This week on The Dad and Daughter Connection, Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomed adventurer and performance coach Alan Mallory for an inspiring conversation on what it means to truly connect with your daughters. If you're a dad seeking real-world advice, heartfelt stories, and strategies to build stronger family ties, this episode is a must-listen.

One of the most impactful themes that emerged is the importance of quality time and shared adventures. Alan Mallory talked passionately about how he's embraced experiences with his two daughters, from spontaneous ski trips to months traveling across the country in a fifth wheel trailer. These journeys provided special opportunities, not just for fun, but for deep conversations and growth. "When it's just the two of us, you can connect on a deeper level," he shared, highlighting the magic of one-on-one time.

But beyond the adventures, Alan Mallory emphasized the vital balance between guidance and independence. He champions a parenting style rooted in mentorship rather than control: "You can't dictate the direction… you have to give them that latitude". This philosophy was shaped by his own experiences, like summiting Mount Everest alongside his family—and by seeing how trust and empowerment forge the strongest bonds.

Another powerful thread: fostering communication and emotional growth. Mallory admitted to struggling at times, especially when it comes to connecting on the emotional level, teaching us all that vulnerability makes for better dads: "I could probably think of a few times where I should have been more empathetic… and just listened". It's a message that resonates—sometimes the greatest gift we can offer is our presence and our ears.

For dads supporting daughters' passions or mental health journeys, this episode is rich with wisdom: encourage experimentation, be the gentle guide, and above all, show up—time is fleeting, and investing those hours pays lifelong dividends.

The Dad and Daughter Connection is a source of community and inspiration for fathers everywhere. Whether you're seeking reassurance or a nudge to start a new adventure, tune in—this conversation with Alan Mallory will remind you that being a great dad is about being present, facing the adventures together, and empowering your daughter to blaze her own trail.

Ready to strengthen your bond? Listen to the episode now and start building those lasting connections!

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to talk about, but also work on those relationships that we want to build with our own daughters one step at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:04]: And I'm so excited that you come back every week because we're all on a journey. We're all on a journey of trying to be the best dads that we want to be and the best dads that we can be. But to get there, we've got to put in the time. We got to put in the effort. We got to learn from other dads around us and see what they're doing, see what makes sense and what works for them. But maybe, maybe that will work for you as well, and that's why this podcast exists. This podcast exists to help you to be able to connect with other dads, but also to learn from some other dads that have different experiences. And I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences every week that can do just that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: Today we got another great guest. Alan Mallory is with us. And Alan is a dynamic speaker. He's an author, he is a performance coach. But I saw him at a recent conference, and he was really talking about some of the things that he's done in his life to push himself beyond who he thought he was and who he thought he could be. He. In his presentations, he gives kind of a unique blend of psychology, engineering, project management, and some artistic flair to be able to make the presentations really a dynamic one. And in the conversation that he gave to the Rotary group that I was with, I loved the message that he gave because he really rooted his messages in his experiences, both as an adventurer, a mountaineer, but really talking about the things that he's done with his family, to be able to keep them, to bring them together and seeing that he is a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]: Of two daughters. I wanted to bring him on to talk a little bit about his own experience in being a father to daughters. So, Alan, thanks so much for being here today.

Alan Mallory [00:02:41]: My pleasure. Looking forward to it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:42]: Well, I'm really looking forward to talking to you today. And as I said, even before we started, I said this is kind of a topic that's a little bit different than ones that probably you talk about all the time. And I always start the interviews with an opportunity because I know that you have two daughters yourself, 12 and 8. And all of us as fathers want to create those moments, those meaningful moments, those things that we can share with our daughters that they'll remember but also will remember and that bring us closer together. What's one's, what's, what is the most meaningful moment that you've been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special?

Alan Mallory [00:03:15]: I don't know if I could boil it down to one meaningful moment, but I mean, I've kind of emulated what my father did with me and my siblings and that spend a lot of quality time, especially out doing adventures with. With my kids. And so in many ways, I'm kind of blessed in the vocation I've chosen. I because I'm traveling all over the place, often I' bring one of my kids along and both my daughters always spent some amazing quality time. Even this past winter, different ski trips, for example, where it's just kind of a dad daughter ski trip, or when I have events in Hawaii or in kind of tropical locations, often they put their heads up to come along with those. And I found those particularly special when it's just the two of us and you can kind of connect on a deeper level and just have fun as well. It's not a chore if you're doing things that you would normally like to do anyway and that they'll like to do. And so we go kayaking or stand up paddleboarding or do some sort of adventure.

Alan Mallory [00:04:11]: And I found those are the most special moments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]: Now your daughters are getting older and you've got that daughter that's a pre tween now and another daughter following not too far behind. And as they get older, they definitely push to get more independence. How do you balance guiding your daughters while still giving them that independence that they need to be able to grow into the people that they're bec.

Alan Mallory [00:04:34]: Yeah, I mean, that's the balance that's hard to strike. And we, all of us, that are parents really go through that. One of my programs I share kind of A curve between. It's a parabolic relationship in that you have a mentor role that you want to kind of nudge your daughters in the right direction or what you believe is the right direction, but you can't dictate that direction. And that's what's almost makes the parenting journey such a roller coaster. They're their own people and sometimes they make. They need to learn through decisions that are made. And, you know, that's how we learn.

Alan Mallory [00:05:03]: If we kind of prevent them from discovering and innovating and all of that, then they just end up with bigger problems down the road. And so it's through small. Allowing them the independence to make small mistakes in many ways, while providing that father mentor role that I think allows them to develop healthily. And it's a difficult balance to get. And I would say in many ways it's a balance that our society has really gone one way on. And that's this kind of, you know, over controlling, bubble wrapping our children rather than allowing them to make mistakes in life, for example. But if you want them to be strong, independent people, you have to give them that latitude. I'd say that's another thing that I learned from my father, for good or bad.

Alan Mallory [00:05:46]: You know, he was always a very empowering person. We climbed Mount Everest in 2008, and this was with my father, brother, sister and I. And so also I was kind of learning from how he treated all of us, especially my sister in this case. There was one instance where basically we were in the death zone above 26,000ft. And he empowered her to kind of make her own decision, whether she wanted to continue on or not. And she was all by herself at that point because she had the altitude weakens your immune system. And so she had these awful sicknesses and she had actually internal bleeding, it was so bad. And.

Alan Mallory [00:06:18]: But that was, you know, a difficult decision to make because obviously in a scenario like that, mistakes can be fatal, and often they are. But I think he's always kind of had that mentality and I've tried to do that as well. You know, you start small so that when they're young, allow them to make their own mistakes. You know, don't always be there to provide. Well, I mean, you're providing the safety rope kind of from a distance. I would say you don't want them to get badly hurt or die, but that's how they're going to learn. You learn through adversity. And when we take that adversity away, which we do out of kindness in many ways, Certainly in the Western society, we've lived pretty, what I say, good lives.

Alan Mallory [00:06:57]: We don't have the same types of challenges that let's say our ancestors had. So we try to make life more comfortable for our kids. Well, that can be detrimental because they just don't learn. You learn through the adversity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:11]: Well, I'd be remiss to not push a little bit on the trip that you had on Everest. And, and I guess I'm not going to ask you to retell that story because you have some books that are specifically about that. But one of the things that I guess that I am interested in is having you talk a little bit about what you learned from that trip with your siblings and your f and how that experience has either helped you in being the father that you're becoming or has made you make some pivots in how you're fathering your kids in different ways.

Alan Mallory [00:07:45]: Well, that was the ultimate family adventure, you might say. I mean, the stakes are very high. The need for healthy relationships is extreme because otherwise, 70 plus percent of the teens while we were there, they tore themselves apart from the inside out. And at that point it's everyone on their own and they have to just pack up and head home. And so being able to resolve conflicts effectively and quickly and say what needs to be said, even though it might inevitably result in a conflict, I think that's a big problem in a lot of families and father daughter relationships that in order to maintain the harmony in the here and now, you just don't say what needs to be said. It might cause someone to get upset. Well, the problem is these issues, they bottle up within people over time. And so every one of those said, what would you call them, items in order to preserve the relationship in the here and now, it just compounds and eventually it explodes.

Alan Mallory [00:08:44]: And that's what tears apart family familial relationships. Now that's obviously true in spousal relationships. We see that all the time. But there's plenty of daughters that don't hardly talk to their fathers when they get married and they move off. And I see that all the time. And I want to, you know, I don't want that to be reality in my life. No, there's lots of, of factors you can't control. But again, I would say maybe I'm giving my dad too many kudos.

Alan Mallory [00:09:08]: But when I look at his friend groups and so on and there's just lots of broken family relationships and he doesn't sugarcoat things, but more than anything, he just makes sure he creates time for doing things with his siblings. He still does. I mean, he's in his 70s now and I can kind of see in his eyes how much he really appreciates that, that his kids, they keep coming back. I mean, they kind of want to spend time with him and my mother as well. So I would love to able to create the same type of environment where your kids really want to still enjoy spending time with you. And part of the secret to that is get them involved young in things that you also are going to be interested in doing throughout your life now. So it's kind of a privilege. We all enjoy swimming and biking and mountain biking and kayaking and things like that.

Alan Mallory [00:09:56]: And so it's not so much of chore when we're trying to get together. And I think if I can preserve that, if you aren't taking an active role when they're young, and I know some of our family friends, that this is exactly what happened. I mean, the kids kind of go a different direction. The parents are into hiking, the kids are into skateboarding, something like that. Now it's really tough. And I see in those family relationships how they can hardly get together for Christmas dinner. There's just no shared interests anymore. And certainly that tears the family apart, but certainly makes it a suboptimal situation to be in as you age.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:29]: So how are you incorporating that mentality, that mantra into what you're doing with your daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:10:36]: If I've maybe taken it to the extreme, you might say in terms of the different adventures, but again, it's kind of a. It dovetails well into the, the work I'm already doing because I'm traveling around. But we lived, for example, for a year on a fifth wheel trailer traveling around the. The southern United States. And every two days or so we were in some new amazing national park, state park. It was during COVID and so the kids were already doing online school. And so in the morning we would do schooling and then in the afternoon we'd be out biking and hiking and swimming and depending where we were. That was just an incredible trip.

Alan Mallory [00:11:15]: I almost wanted to just stay on the rig and do a whole nother loop. It was so amazing. But those types of things, I mean, whether you like it or not, you're in close proximity in those in a fifth wheel trailer, for example. So yeah. And then whenever I can, especially the skiing, they've really taken to skiing. Both my daughters are just amazing, amazing skiers. And, and it happened quickly too. My eldest, I take her to Whistler and she goes Right down the double black diamonds through the trees and you know, my heart's skipping a few beats, but again, I tried it.

Alan Mallory [00:11:46]: Well, she's got to learn her own limits here. I don't want her flying off a cliff and perishing. So I'll kind of be in watching things, but let her own. Make her own decisions. And I remember when we were there, thinking, it was only a couple years ago when I was taking her down the bunny hill at our local ski resort, going behind her to make sure she didn't kind of get out of control. But I think, did I teach them skiing? I mean, kind of the basics. But more than anything, I just gave them the latitude and the opportunity to figure out where their limits were and develop the skills themselves with a little bit of guidance here and then there when they wanted it. And so that's just wonderful going on those ski trips now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:29]: None of us are infallible. We're humans. We make mistakes. What's a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering better communication with your daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:12:41]: What is a mistake? Well, I'm probably always making mistakes of some sort. I probably don't connect well on the emotional side as well as I should. I'm still a guy. I don't necessarily understand kind of the emotions and things, especially at that. The age when they're kind of going through puberty and so on. And so probably I could be better at just listening at times. I'm an engineer as well, and so I kind of like, like engineering our way out of these problems. But when there's, you know, those emotional challenges that we all go through.

Alan Mallory [00:13:14]: Yeah, I could probably think of a few times where I thought, well, maybe I should have been a little more empathetic to that and just listened and really tried to see things from. From their perspective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:24]: That's definitely something that you have to do. I've heard that numerous times from numerous fathers and others about doing more listening than talking at times and. And being able to not come in trying to answer the question or to solve a problem, but let your daughter do what she can to be able to guide, whether it is either a solving conversation or a listening conversation. And that's something that I wish that I had learned earlier than not.

Alan Mallory [00:13:52]: Yeah, no, it's interesting in some of my psychological background, you know, I remember reading this same type of thing over and over again when it comes to psychotherapy. You know, half the time the therapist is not really saying anything. You're just kind of there nodding, allowing the other individual to kind of work true in their own mind, in their own life. And surprisingly, that has just tremendous benefit. You just, you kind of need to be this sounding board that the individual can't do it on their own. They need someone there that's almost doing, you know, it's doing very little than listening, but it's tremendously beneficial. So the engineer in me says that makes no sense at all. But having just read about it again and again now, I realize as humans, you know, the human mind is not something that can be reverse engineered very well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]: And speaking about your background in psychology and now trying to raise kids and raise daughters, talk to me about that. And the juxtaposition between having the understanding of how the mind works but also being able to be the father and being able to be there for your kids in different ways and not bringing too much psychology into it at the same time.

Alan Mallory [00:15:06]: I went the psychological direction because I had my own mental health challenges in my younger years. I had quite a severe social phobia, an anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder. And so because I'm an engineer by trade, which is the polar opposite of psychology, but I started studying the human mind as I was trying to work through my own challenges. And I think what got me more and more interested in it is it started to work. I developed these different cognitive strategies that would allow me to quickly bring down elevated baseline stress levels, for example. And you know, I'd play a lot of these mental games that I would read about and, and kind of develop for my own purposes that would change my emotional responses in the here and now. And so now there's a genetic element to the predisposition to these types of mental health challenges. And I kind of see some of them in my daughters, for example.

Alan Mallory [00:15:57]: And so I do want to be proactive in providing them the tools that are needed. Now I'm careful to even say that, that there's a genetic element because so many people just, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for them. You know, my father had this, my mot had this, my grandmother had this. I guess it's inevitable. I will. And I was actually told that many, many times by the different medical professionals that I thought saw my younger years throughout that journey. Basically you have this chemical imbalance that's leading to this. And almost all the time they just suggested medication.

Alan Mallory [00:16:28]: And now I don't want to be too negative on medication because it obviously has a place, you know, when people are really at low points, sometimes anything that will help is the way to go. But I saw it as something that would kind of hide my symptoms rather than get at the root causes. So I never went down the medical pat. I developed cognitive strategies that would work. And I've tried to kind of, you know, when I've seen my daughters having, you know, who knows if they're. I think every kind of preteen has that type of thing. They have to develop their own strategies. So I.

Alan Mallory [00:16:59]: I'm not saying necessarily are they going to be more predisposed than others to this type of thing, but I also just kind of notice when I was going through a mental health journey, you become hyper sensitized to, you know, noticing little twitches and things like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:14]: Right.

Alan Mallory [00:17:15]: Because I'm always so concerned about it in myself, or was at the time. So I've kind of tried to share those strategies that I've developed. Now. I wouldn't say I've shared them very effectively, or at least they haven't been adopted. And part of it is because I'm, I guess, the dad. You know, often they're like, oh, dad, maybe that'll work for you. But this is a different era and I can kind of relate to that because that's exactly what I said to most people who tried to share strategies with me, including the different psychologists I saw. Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's easy for you to say that.

Alan Mallory [00:17:47]: You're not living through this. And so I would mostly brush off the different things they were trying to tell me. And there was always a bit of truth in each one of them. And I really listened. I didn't really discover some of those, well, let's call them things that really helped in my life until I kept reading from people that were going through the same challenges that I'd gone through. And. And we're able to finally figure it out. And it was a combination of self education, learning how your mind works, but also kind of voluntary exposure therapy, and not getting out of your mind, stop fighting yourself, because it's a response to those symptoms, really, and the way that leads to this rumination that holds us, that perpetuates the disorder.

Alan Mallory [00:18:31]: So when I try to share those types of strategies, I have to be careful, mindful of how I do it. And if I'm really kind of rushed in my own work, it's not effective. I think it's going to be through many years of just kind of, you know, providing little tools here and there. And this is what you should try, maybe give this a try. It worked in my life. And so hopefully I'm able to, you know, just provide what they need and maybe they won't. Sometimes this is just a natural stage of growing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:00]: And speaking of the mental health issues that you were dealing with yourself, how do you talk to your own daughters about that experience in relation to building that connection with them?

Alan Mallory [00:19:11]: Well, in many ways I haven't in a lot of detail. I've tried to encourage my eldest daughter to read my second book because that's what it's all about. She finds it too boring because it's kind of psychological pace and she's into, you know, romance and adventure stories and that sort of thing. So I haven't. Wouldn't say I have been particularly effective in kind of sharing the whole journey and all the those strategies I've tried at times, but there hasn't been a lot of interest in it. It's kind of. So I don't know, maybe they're still a bit too young. Maybe they won't need those types of strategies.

Alan Mallory [00:19:44]: I can certainly relate to how I found it frustrating to try to play the right mental movies in my mind, for example. Your mind almost fights back against it. It says, no, that's not what you need. I mean, this is futile. I mean, I should just analyze more. Well, the constant analysis of your own symptoms certainly just makes things worse and worse.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:04]: Worse. You've had your own passions, your dreams, your things that you have tried to push yourself to do through your life, and the things that you continue to do. Talk to me about how you support your daughters in pursuing their passions and dreams.

Alan Mallory [00:20:17]: Well, it's certainly giving them the opportunity. I guess they are still kind of discovering what their passions and dreams are. And I've seen that with my eldest. I would say, if anything, my wife and I are just trying to allow her to try different things because she doesn't seem to have. Have gravitated to particular sport or dream just yet. There certainly have been things that have captured her interest. We had her learning sign language for a while. Right.

Alan Mallory [00:20:44]: But it let things wane and as they should. I mean, that's the whole idea. You want to just try as many things as you can and when you're young so you can kind of see what tends to excite you, I guess, and ideally align your vocation with. With whatever that is. So got them. I play the violin and so I've got them in both playing the violin. And that's just wonderful to me. And that's was a little frustrating to me in the early years because like I was when I was a kid, I just didn't want to do it.

Alan Mallory [00:21:10]: I didn't want to practice it where you know, spending the time and energy and money in many cases to pursue that. And I had to keep reminding myself, well I gotta. This really isn't for them. Even though I'd love to be able to play with violin with my daughters, maybe they'll go a different direction now. In recent years they seem to have taken it a lot more seriously and I think it says they've gotten into the different festivals and started playing some fun songs that they recognize and enjoy and so hopefully that that passion will. Will continue to grow within them. But. And we've tried lots of different sports too.

Alan Mallory [00:21:46]: My parents never got me involved in organized sports and we are trying that a little bit. Like my youngest is playing soccer for example and seems to really have taken to that. I guess the challenges with some of those organized sports is it consumes your life and for a lot of the adventures and travel and so on the that that certainly my wife and I like to do. It's tough if you're driving every weekend to different hockey tournaments and so on and so on. Maybe plots could argue. Well, maybe there is a bit of a selfish motivator there and I don't want to be a non stop taxi driver, but I see how it worked with my dad and he got us into running and biking and things that, you know, they were more like they're kind of individual sports versus large group sports like that and there's benefits in both. But they didn't consume our life. And that can be the challenge with.

Alan Mallory [00:22:32]: And I don't want to sound like I'm being negative about organized sports. There's lots of benefits and you learn camaraderie and teamwork and all of that. But I look at some of my friends and they do nothing but drive around to different sports events.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:46]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. You ready? Sure. What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Alan Mallory [00:22:58]: Empowering.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:59]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received?

Alan Mallory [00:23:03]: I don't know if I've received very much dad advice, but probably if I had to just choose what I've discovered, it would be, you know, spend as much quality time with your daughters as you can before it's too late, before they move on. Every, you know, every older father basically says the same thing. The time flew by.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:21]: What's one Activity that you and your daughters love doing together.

Alan Mallory [00:23:25]: I would say skiing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:26]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Alan Mallory [00:23:31]: Probably to align your vocation with something that really you're passionate about.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:37]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Alan Mallory [00:23:41]: Maybe I don't have all the answers. I've still got a lot to learn.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:44]: And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Alan Mallory [00:23:51]: That one's easy. You've got to carve out the time. You've got to be doing adventures all the time. The father daughter relationships that fall apart. I think it's dads that are just too busy with other things. And it's a tough balance. I mean, you've got to also make a living, provide for your family in all of that. But you can't go back.

Alan Mallory [00:24:10]: Once the time is gone and you haven't invested those important hours and days in the relationship. Then was it all worth it? I mean, there's so many people that have regrets when they get older.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:24]: So now, Alan, I know you've got a lot of things going on. If people want to find out more about you and your books and everything else that you're doing, where should they go?

Alan Mallory [00:24:34]: Well, my website's pretty comprehensive. It's just Alan Mallory.com a L a N and have a YouTube channel. And I put various videos on there. My electric violin and my different adventures and so on. And yeah, those are probably the. The two places to start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:48]: And I will tell you, check out his electric violin. He is an amazing electric violin player. And I was really impressed. I didn't even know that he was playing at the event that I was playing. And then I looked up and I'm like, oh, this is Alan playing. And it was great. So I really encourage you to check out all of that. We'll put some links in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:08]: And Alan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing some of your journey today. I look forward to hearing more about the adventures not only that you have, but the adventures that you're having with your kids and being able to live a little vicariously through what you're doing. And I just want to say thank you and I wish you all the best.

Alan Mallory [00:25:25]: My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to be build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Alan Mallory [00:25:57]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them? Be the best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can.

If you're a dad searching for practical wisdom and heartfelt inspiration on building stronger connections with your daughter, you won't want to miss the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Jared Mees, father, creative, and co-founder of Tender Loving Empire, for a candid conversation about the joys, challenges, and real-life lessons of fatherhood.

This episode dives deep into what meaningful connection really looks like between dads and daughters. Jared Mees shares his biggest bonding moments, like the summer road trips he's taken with his daughters since they were little—unstructured adventures that have become cherished family memories. Whether braving uncomfortable camping trips or hours on the road, these simple, unplugged experiences spark genuine connection, laughter, and character-building for all.

As daughters grow up, the balancing act for dads shifts. Jared Mees opens up about learning to give his daughters independence as they get older—recognizing when to lean in, when to back off, and how to be present even when they aren't seeking attention. For his younger daughter, it's about reading and drawing together. For his teen, it's understanding late-night chats and respecting her space.

One of the most powerful parts of the episode centers on vulnerability. Jared Mees shares honestly about a mental health crisis he faced and how it affected his family. Learning to admit mistakes, say "Daddy was wrong," and seek real support reshaped his relationship with his daughters. His openness models strength and resilience—and shows that kids benefit deeply from witnessing their parents' growth and recovery.

Other themes include the importance of encouraging kids' passions without taking over, calling out the specific things that make them unique, and navigating the emotional transitions as daughters become teens. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Jared Mees also discuss letting go of ego, embracing imperfection, and being consistent in small, everyday ways.

If you're ready to hear authentic stories and actionable advice about being the dad your daughter needs—through life's ups, downs, and transitions—be sure to tune in. Head to dadanddaughterconnection.com, catch the latest episode, and start building those lifelong bonds, one day at a time.

Don't miss this uplifting and honest look at fatherhood—listen now!

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together, to work on identifying ways in which we can build those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. It is going to be a journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]: Having those perfect relationships is going to come in ebbs and flows. It's not always going to be easy, but there are things that you can do to make it a little bit better one day at a time. And that's why this show exists. This show exists to be able to give you some tools for your toolbox, for you to be able to learn, to grow and to be able to be that dad that you want to be showing up for your daughter every day. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different dance with different experiences to help you to be able to see fatherhood in a little bit of a different way and to be able to see how they are fathering their own daughters, to be able to help you in your journey. Today we got another great guest. Jared Mees is with us today, and Jared is someone I've known for a number of years. Jared was on another podcast that I used to have called Dads with Daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: And at that time, it was about four years ago, we were chatting about some music that he was making with his daughters, and his daughters keep growing as they always do. So I'm excited to be able to have him back, to be able to talk about how things are going today and be able to check back in. Jared, thanks so much for being here today.

Jared Mees [00:02:20]: Thanks so much, Chris. Appreciate it. Excited to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today, and I always loved starting the conversation because this show is all about connection and how you build those meaningful connections with your daughters. And I. I know you have two daughters yourself. What would you say is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made it so special?

Jared Mees [00:02:41]: Yeah, I have two lovely daughters. Piper is 8 and she's almost 9. And July is 14 going on 24. So we're. I'm super blessed to have them in my life. And I always thought I'd be a dad of a son or something before I had kids. But then, now that I have two daughters, I wouldn't have it any other way. Of course, they're definitely lights of my life.

Jared Mees [00:03:03]: They're both totally individual, different human beings, and they both need completely different things. And I try to provide it every day, whether I feel like it or not. And, you know, some days I succeed better than others, as we all do. But I would say, to answer your question, the biggest things that we do together are these road trips that we take every summer. Ever since COVID when Piper was two or three, two and a half, and July was eight, we've taken summer road trips to my hometown in Colorado from Oregon, where I live. So just driving around with them and exploring, mostly the western United States and just seeing things, camping. A lot of the. The funnest times are just when there's no real plan and we just get into something.

Jared Mees [00:03:53]: We're on the beach or we're having a conversation around a fire, or just all the little things that happen along the way. But the road tr. Definitely, we've taken one every summer since 2020, and they're definitely a way to connect. And when I look back, I'm like, those are precious times. And, you know, they can be challenging. And sometimes the challenges, when you're away from your home and you're uncomfortable, you know, camping, they think they don't like camping, but every time we go camping, they have a great time. They can be, you know, character building. And so I remember those fondly.

Jared Mees [00:04:29]: We're going on one this summer. This summer is going to be easy going. We're just going to go down the Oregon coast.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:34]: Those moments are so important, and they're going to be things that your daughters are going to think back on, remember fondly as they get older. Whether it's the. The fun times or the squabbles in the car, the moments where you pull off the road to be able to see something cool, you know, it's going to be those memories that they're going to relate to. So it's. It's so exciting to hear those things. Now, I know you said your daughters are getting older and, and as your daughters do get older, as all of us that have daughters get older, there is the struggle that we go through as dads, which is allowing for us to be able to help our daughters to find that balance, that balance in having independence while still being who they are. How do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person?

Jared Mees [00:05:26]: That's a great question. And I don't know that I really think about it as it's happening, but there's a lot of connection that I feel like I try to foster every day that just kind of lets them know that I'm there and that I'm around and present for them. I try to be there every day when they get home from school, there when they leave for school. And I think just the presence allows me to be just plugged into what they're going through on a hour to hour, day to day, week to week basis that I don't know, there's. That ends up. It makes it where I don't really get in their way so much. I would say we have a lot of things going on and so trying to just make space for the small things that they want to do. Like my 8 year old wants to play and you know, you don't always want to play, but you get down on the floor with them for 20 minutes and it means the world to them.

Jared Mees [00:06:20]: And then my 14 year old wants space. And so sometimes that's just like coming in, saying hi and being like, I love you, what are you up to? And then if they don't want to talk, then just letting them have that moment and then eventually they come around and they want to talk. I noticed that my 14 year old really gets talkative right before bed and right before she goes to sleep, which is kind of like the time you want them to be winding down. And so just being around for the moments that they want you and then being okay when they don't want you. And I think that's where I'm not like starved for attention myself. Keeping myself really trying to be my own best friend where I'm not like trying to just go get attention from them keeps me from like being too hovery. That makes sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:05]: It does make sense. And I think each of us has to find that balance for ourselves and, and also allow for our kids to be able to have that space that they need to be able to be who they are. And that becomes hard as they are transitioning, especially transitioning from that phase where they Always want to be around you to that phase where they're like, nope, I need my space, I need to be away and I close my door, whatever it may be. But yeah, I completely get it. And I remember times where I've gone through that myself. As you think about your daughters and what you've done to be able to really work on that bond with them, what are some intentional ways you think that you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters even through challenging times?

Jared Mees [00:07:50]: Well, I think that I have a. We've got things that we focus on together on a day to day basis. My 8 year old is learning to read and so reading with her every day, it's very basic. But reading, drawing, making art, it's just day to day easygoing stuff that doesn't feel like, oh, I'm building a bond with my daughter. But over time it kind of builds this repetition of like, this is what we do together and kind of gives them confidence in that they can, they're developing skills and you're watching them develop skills and encouraging them to be better while like really noting the improvement that they've made or noting something specific. Even if you don't, you know, have the time to like look at like something small that they've made that they're excited about, you can like, I always have the time to just be like, oh, that's cool. I like this thing. And I think that's like, I like this specific drawing of this the way that you did the cat's whiskers or something versus just like, oh, that's nice honey.

Jared Mees [00:08:52]: And so I've really tried to like, because I don't have all the time to sit down and praise them for everything they do, but there is an element of just calling out specifics of something that they've done that makes them feel seen. And that's specifically my 8 year old. But you know, with my 14 year old I do it as well. And so I think that builds like the bond of like, I'm seen, I'm, I'm noted, I'm known. Even if it's not a big time investment, just like calling out specifics of something that they're doing. So that's just like a little thing I do. I think I learned that from a book too. That said, even if you don't have time, just noting a specific will make the connection for the kid that you are listening.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:34]: Let me dig a little bit more on that because you know, showing them that they're seen is important and I think One of the other things that I've noticed is that it's so important with daughters to be able to let them know that they are both valued and heard. How do you show your daughters that they're valued and heard?

Jared Mees [00:09:52]: Well, my daughters are pretty loud and gregarious and like, in your face. And so it's like, they are definitely heard all the time. I think it comes down to, like, important moments where they're trying to say. It's really like during moments of friction. That is probably where it really becomes like, am I being heard or not? Because we listen to them all the time talk about whatever they're talking about. But it's like there's the moments where they need something specific or like, I didn't. I don't think that you did this. That you vacuumed even though I asked you to vacuum is like, I did vacuum.

Jared Mees [00:10:29]: Well, you need to vacuum better. Let me show you how to do it. It's like, I already know how to do it. You already showed me. And it was like, well, then why didn't you do it correctly? And like, there's these moments of altercation that stepping back and not allowing the heat of the moment to get in the way of. Of what they're trying to tell you. You know, even if they, you think, you know, they did a bad job vacuuming, hearing out that they think that they did a good job and that they're, you know, they did try and like, acknowledging that while then continuing to offer the input of how to do it better, I think is. Those are like the difficult moments, I think is really where you have to focus on making sure that they're heard while also not letting them off the hook.

Jared Mees [00:11:16]: Because I think it's important to instill that kids know quality is necessary for them to be like a fully fleshed human. They're going to have to be able to do things in a quality manner. But I don't know if that makes sense. But it's ultimately during moments of altercation or friction, allowing some space for them to say what they need to say while also not backing down from the truth that you're trying to get across. And that can be a fine line. That can be difficult. I think as a man, it's easy to get angry in those moments. And so you really have to keep your eye on what you want to get accomplished in the conversation versus being right or not being talked to in a sass with sass or anything.

Jared Mees [00:11:58]: It's like allowing what they need to say to get said, but Then knowing that the end of it, it's going to be a. There's going to be the. Some sort of, like, lesson is going to get taught, and you're going to feel okay about it. I feel like dads and feel like they need to be heard, too, you know, because I live in a family with three women, and so it's easy to, like, just have it be a lot of alternating energies and a lot of talking about disparate subjects. And, you know, you can kind of get lost in that sometimes. So it's important to feel like you're heard as well, you know, in those

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:31]: moments that are challenging. I know that there are times as fathers where we're not going to make all the right choices. We're going to make mistakes along the way. There's going to be errors of judgment. What's a mistake that you made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:12:51]: Oh, I don't think I've ever made a mistake. No, it's. There's mistakes, you know, get made all the time. And I think that the one thing that I've. I've learned to say is. And this, like, somehow fixes it all the time is just saying daddy was wrong and just saying it plainly and quickly. And it really does just, like, help the whole thing. And you have to swallow your pride a little bit to say it, but once it's out of your mouth, everything is like, all the tension goes down.

Jared Mees [00:13:21]: Once you've made a mistake, you say, daddy was wrong. And it's generally the mistakes I make are in, like I said before, probably letting my anger or, like, my agitation get the better of me in a specific situation because I have a certain set of emotions going on that my kids are not privy to. And I decide to snap at one thing and say, oh, you didn't do this or you didn't do that. You didn't do the thing I asked. And then they say, no, we did. And then I've just spent all this time yammering on and getting upset about something that I was just wrong about. And so those are the moments, like, think of growth for me really is like, just saying daddy was wrong. And I think it's hard for men to admit they're wrong, but it just feels good once you say it, because it just lets the pressure off.

Jared Mees [00:14:13]: Like, we don't always have to be right or get it right, but it feels good to kids to, like, understand that, you know, you're a human who makes mistakes. And I think trying to hold up some sort of standard, gold standard where you never make mistakes or you're never wrong or even the illusion of that is just too much pressure on a human. And so it's kind of nice to, to be able to just admit that and admit it up front and quickly. And it just lets a lot of the air out of things. It's like we think sometimes that if we say we're wrong that like our life's going to end or that we're going to be less of a man or just there's some worthiness factor that's going to enter, but you know, that's just a lie. And so just quickly copying to things that you're wrong about is really helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:00]: Definitely. And I know that there's plenty of times where I think being vulnerable will definitely open things up and allow your daughters to be able to see not only you in a different way, but see relationships in a different way and allow for them to feel differently about the way in which they kind of maneuver through life. So I know that you've done a lot of really cool things with your, your daughters and pushing them and encouraging them. You have your own passions and dreams. You have a lot of things with music that going on. You've done music with your, with your daughters along the way. Talk to me what you have done over your daughter's lifetimes to be able to support them in pursuing their passions and dreams.

Jared Mees [00:15:41]: Yeah, I mean, both my kids dance. They're really into dance and acting. So it's, it's a lot of just driving to and from you. Just the work a day, driving, being in the car, taking them to the thing they want to do. And it's. You don't always want to do it. But the barometer I use is like, they're happier when I pick them up than when I drop them off. And that is worth doing it.

Jared Mees [00:16:03]: And like, I say that to myself and I say it to other people like, oh man, it's so much work doing this driving for dance. But it's like the happiness that you see on their faces when you pick them up from the thing they got to do, that you got to provide the money and time and effort and the car and the gas, et cetera. It's worth it when you see that they are happier and consistently happier and like, that's what ultimately makes a happy life. And then also, I don't know, my 8 year old's working on a play. She really wants to write a play and so she can't really type or know how to like format a script or anything, but she knows exactly what she wants the play to be about and she has all these big creative dreams. So like we recently got her play from like in her head to. On a first draft and then we went through it and made it better and better and my 14 year old got involved and so she's gonna be. We got it all printed out recently and we have.

Jared Mees [00:17:02]: She had, they had picked the kids, they want to be in the play. And so my 8 year old is going to be directing it and my 14 year old is producing it and we're going to put it on at the warehouse that we have and just kind of staying out of it and letting them. My 14 year old has a phone now, so she's texting all the parents to get all the kids to show up for the rehearsals and you know, they're working on all the costumes and stuff. So just like helping out with stuff like that and being involved while also not like taking it on as like my own project and kind of like letting it be whatever quality it's going to be, it's been fun. It's like in a lot of times I would have jumped in and like made it this super extra over the top thing, but then it kind of becomes my project. It's nice to sit back and have it be completely theirs. But providing the tech expertise to get things printed and to like share numbers with peop, you know, kind of the executive producer role, I suppose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:01]: You know, one of the things that I know that we talked about at the very beginning was that over the last couple of years you had a bit of a scare, you had a bit of a mental health issue that you were dealing with and you had to maneuver through that period, that period in your life with your kids. Can you talk to me about that? And some of the things that you had to do to be able to not only get yourself in a good place, but also to help your children to understand what was going on and help them to better maneuver through that time.

Jared Mees [00:18:35]: Yeah, you know, I'm an open book about it, but I, I had a mental health issue basically. Like they used to call them nervous breakdowns, but it's basically a mental health event where I was not really able to function in the capacity that I normally could function because my nervous system basically was shutting down. And so for about three months I was not really the person that, that I normally was. And while I was recovering and this was a Period of basically getting clean and getting sober. I wasn't a huge alcoholic or anything, but I definitely, I smoked weed every day for 15 years just to deal with my anxiety issue. And so I, when I stopped doing that because I wanted to have a different modality for dealing with my anxiety, there was a transitional period basically brought on a long term anxiety attack slash nervous breakdown. So the transition to getting clean really was difficult. And you know, with my 14 year old I was able to discuss it a little bit because she knew that I smoked weed and we live in Oregon and it's a very accepted thing but it was, you know, something I had to tell her.

Jared Mees [00:19:46]: Like I'm doing this to get better, worse. But in the meantime it's really difficult for me to just deal with things I normally deal with. Noise was a big problem, really difficult to deal with noise for like nine or 10 weeks. And so just being in a house in a normal volume house was really difficult. And so I was like, I had to just explain that I was going through a difficult time. And they've gone through difficult times. They go through difficult times every day, every week. And so they understand difficult times but they didn't understand, I think that I had to go through a difficult time and they didn't understand why it was taking so long.

Jared Mees [00:20:24]: And so I was just having, just having to explain the nature of what I was going through in a way, way that they could understand. It was difficult. It wasn't easy to. Because you can't really get too clinical and detailed because they kind of tune out. So it was really just about like I just need things to be simple and you know, I'm getting sick in my brain a little bit but my brain's gonna get better. That's kind of what we had to tell our 8 year old. And then my 14 year old, I was a little more upfront with her about the, the way things were working in reality. But by and large they were the North Star in the end of it all.

Jared Mees [00:21:01]: You know, I was doing this for them to be better, not worse. And I feel like I'm definitely a better dad today than I was. I wasn't bad before, but it was like I'm a better, I'm more confident person and I like myself better. And I think that shines through to the way I parent now. So it's been a positive thing for them overall. But the transitional period, it was sad. It was difficult for me to try to note. I couldn't give them what I normally give them.

Jared Mees [00:21:30]: And you Know, but knowing that it was the best I could do at that moment and allowing that to be okay, that was what I had to focus on, that this was okay and I wasn't messing them up. And for them to see someone go through something hard and to be better, because they really noted, oh, you're better. I just noticed we're doing all sorts of loud stuff and you don't have any problem with it. And, like, that was really awesome when that came around for them. And they just, like, noticed that I had gone through something at hard and how I dealt with it. And I don't know, maybe they'll remember it. They'll probably remember it as they grow up, but I don't think there was hardly any moments that were, like, traumatic. There was a few times where I yelled because I was just, like, overwhelmed by my own emotions and the noise.

Jared Mees [00:22:12]: And like, those were the times that kind of, like, necessitated conversations afterwards. But I don't think it was. They were pretty quick and dealt with. And I have a support. My wife was super supportive and my extended family was super supportive. My friends were super supportive. So it was. I was able to get away when I needed to get away and deal with my own stuff, away from the audience of my family when that.

Jared Mees [00:22:39]: When that needed to happen. So I really am thankful to them for, you know, being the North Star and being the guiding light for, like, this is why I'm doing this and why I'm going through this difficult thing. It's not just for me. It's for me first and for them second. But definitely they were, like, a huge important thing for getting me through it. I don't know. I could talk about this for, like, hours and have. Obviously.

Jared Mees [00:23:00]: But that's Cliff Notes.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:01]: And what would you say to other dads that may be struggling with their own mental health issues and maybe they're not getting the support that they need at this point.

Jared Mees [00:23:10]: Um, gosh, say like that. Really examining at the bottom of it, like, what you need and whether or not you're getting what you need and. And knowing that every day doesn't have to be so hard. You know, often when you're dealing with a mental health issue, it's because there's something underneath it that is basically just not working. And then we string it together and jury rig our lives so that it will work, and it's often with substances and that really just examining what is it that's not working and taking, like, a moment and knowing that just like, admitting it doesn't mean you have to fix it. But admitting it is definitely a first step, and then deciding what you can do to fix it incrementally, if possible. And if you can fix something incrementally with discipline and with small changes, that's definitely, I think, a better way than trying to go cold turkey like I did, and then, like, having to fall off the rails. But, like, the body keeps the score.

Jared Mees [00:24:17]: And eventually you will have to reckon with the thing that is not working in your life, whatever it is. And to reckon with it slowly and incrementally over time is much easier than just having it reckon with you one day and having to deal with it all at once, one day. So I would say it's just being honest with yourself about what you need. And it really takes time. Taking time away from your family and taking time away from the stress of life and examining what it is you're doing and why you're doing it and what is important to you and what you want to do better and what you think you're doing great. And like, that's probably through a journal or some sort of, like, cataloging of your life in an organized way can be really powerful. But we often don't take time for ourselves. As fathers, we're kind of the ox that has to just continually pull.

Jared Mees [00:25:15]: And we think that to take time or to not to admit that we are not strong is a failure in and of itself. And I think it's ultimately the opposite. To, like, take time and to admit that we need help, even if it's just to ourselves, is super powerful and actually makes us twice as strong. And I think that there's a current in, like, men's health that is moving that direction, that examining your problems makes you stronger, not weaker. And I'm excited for that because I really think that a lot of men suffer needlessly just because they don't think that. They think that if they admit they need help or that they aren't as strong as they put on, that they are, that somehow that's going to be the end of something. And really, it's just the end of your ego. And your ego dying or being minimized is actually a really positive thing for your.

Jared Mees [00:26:14]: For your life, for being a father, for being a provider, for being a man. It's like, it's super important that that happens. It feels like the opposite in the moment, but it's really important that that happens at some point in your life. I think.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:28]: No, I think that was great. And I guess one of the other things that I was Thinking about is you talked earlier about the fact that your daughter is now transitioned into middle school and she's moved into this. You know, you were dealing with your own issues. She's now going into middle school and there's a lot of things that happen in middle school, a lot of changes that happen in the lives of our daughters. Talk to me about that transition for you and balancing supporting her going through this, but also dealing with the changes that come with that and maybe the interplay with the mental health challenges that you were going through.

Jared Mees [00:27:02]: Yeah, you know, as my daughter turned 13, I was kind of going through the mental health transition and I just cried and cried like a baby for God, like an hour one night. And it was just like kind of mourning the transition that like my baby was gone, my little girl was gone, and not feeling like I knew the new person that they were. And it's not so black and white like that, but it felt very black and white at that moment and that it was like a new person had been placed where the old and the old one had been taken away. And I think it was important to have that moment of like acknowledging the transition because I think often the transitions are kind of just glossed over as we go through life and that we don't get the moments to really acknowledge internally what's happening for ourselves. Like, of course we have birthday parties and quinceaneras and bat mitzvahs and whatnot. But there's gotta be an internal reckoning with the transition that's happening so that you can then treat them in the now and be like communicating with them in the now and not have this constant mourning or sadness that it's time has passed me by and where did my little girl go? And I think there's a element of letting that out and acknowledging it. And that's what these coming of age parties are supposed to be about. But I think often fathers don't really do the emotional work to truly transition for themselves and the way, and like the way they're thinking of their daughters.

Jared Mees [00:28:42]: And I think it's healthy to have some sort of internal moment with a journal or with yourself, just to like acknowledge that you tried your best for them, you did your best for them when they were little, and now they're. You're going to do their best for them as they're this age and every age after that, you know, and then it's really. Nothing has changed in terms of your commitment to the person, but it's like your commitment to them being this and not that I think is important to them, really living in the now, in the present. This can take some pressure off, at least for me. It's like taking some pressure off just having some sort of like internal transition moment, like emotional acknowledgement, like a ritual or something that is yours, that is specific to you and feels right to you rather than this, you know, these big outward public displays. Those are great and those are gonna happen, but it's like, did you really get what you needed out of that? Did you really acknowledge it internally to where you can now transition with her and not just continue to think you have a three year old when you have a 13 year old and be frustrated that you don't and feel like the time where did all the time go and feel sad. There's so many emotions that come up that we press down, you know, that are nostalgic memories and et cetera. And it's like those need to be acknowledged.

Jared Mees [00:30:05]: It's important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call Our Dad Connection 6, which are six more questions that delve deeper into you, you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jared Mees [00:30:14]: Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:14]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Jared Mees [00:30:19]: Joyful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received?

Jared Mees [00:30:24]: Take life one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:26]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together?

Jared Mees [00:30:30]: Let's say drawing. We all like to draw together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Jared Mees [00:30:37]: Let's say to love yourself and love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:40]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Jared Mees [00:30:45]: Life is long and there's lots of transitions and to take time with each period because it will soon be gone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:54]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Jared Mees [00:31:02]: I would say letting your own ego go and letting expectations you may have on yourself go and just being present with your kids as often as you can in small ways is important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: Well, Jared, I just want to say thank you. If people want to find out more about you and what you're doing, where should they go?

Jared Mees [00:31:24]: They can visit tenderlovingempire.com that's my business. I run with my wife that we sell the art of 500 different artists and we run a record label here in Portland, Oregon. And or my Instagram is just aradmeese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:38]: Well, again, Jared, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for being so honest and open. About the the highs, the lows, and everything in between of fatherhood and your own journey and being a father. And I wish you all the best.

Jared Mees [00:31:54]: Thanks so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:56]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:32:27]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the want you now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.