Do you wish you could play better gigs? Do you want to engage in the type of projects and work that will leave you feeling happy and fulfilled?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I pass the mic with Robonzo of The Unstarving Musician, who’s got a podcast and a book of his own. He shares how he was able to build a profitable live performance career and how he helps other musicians do the same.

Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – The podcasting journey

01:39 – How did you get started with The Unstarving Musician?

04:59 – The value of subbing

08:20 – Being a good hang

09:18 – How can musicians better leverage live performance?

12:34 – Having too many lines in the water

15:57 – Taking care of yourself

17:41 – Depression in the music industry/success doesn’t make you happy

20:44 – Who do you know that isn’t a starving musician?

24:48 – The Music Entrepreneur Code

25:49 – Why did you get into podcasting?

31:14 – Current social media marketing trends

36:19 – Making new music

37:52 – Why did you write a book and what impact has it had?

42:11 – Are there any books that have helped you on your journey?

43:49 – Wrap up

Transcription:

David Andrew Wiebe: Today I'm chatting with host of The Unstarving Musician Podcast, Robonzo. How are you today, Robonzo?

Robonzo: I'm great. That was like one of the smoothest intros ever because as we were just saying pre-episode, we've just been chitchatting, ice breaking. I love it. I'm doing great. Thank you.

DA: Awesome. Yeah, we just been chatting away. I don't know how many times I've said the intro like that now but I guess something people wouldn't know necessarily is I have been podcasting since 2009 with the David Andrew Wiebe Podcast, which quickly turned into David Andrew Wiebe Interviews, a music business podcast, which then became DAWCast: Music Entrepreneurship.

And then, when I realized that nobody understood the cleverness behind the name of DAWCast: Music Entrepreneurship, I temporarily quit, and then reboot it. And that's The New Music Industry Podcast, which is also the namesake of my book. But it's been an awesome and fun journey. We'll be getting into that too because you're also a podcaster.

Your website makes it fairly clear that you're passionate about helping musicians, especially in the area of live performance. So, where does that passion come from? How did you get started in the space?

Robonzo: Yeah, that's where I started. I am a lifelong gigging musician, drummer, and singer. I recently confessed in another conversation with the podcast that I years ago used to play guitar and just stopped and picked that back up because I think it's from talking to so many songwriters. I'm like, “Wow, I'd like to write some songs.” So, I picked that up as well. But it did come from gigging a lot and being very proficient at it in terms of being… I was fond of saying, you know, when I was in the markets, where there are the opportunities that I could gig at will, you know, when and where I wanted to and get paid.

I guess, you know, the story I usually tell is one December, a while back, I realized my gig calendar had one or more gigs per month in the coming year. I was like, “Oh, that's pretty cool. I should maybe share that with some people.” Eventually, it drove me to write a book called The Unstarving Musician’s Guide to getting paid gigs.

Once that was done, maybe during the process, I thought, “What can I do to make this a little bigger?” Because if this does help musicians, surely there's, you know, I can take it to a broader audience over time. Though, from talking to a number of songwriters, musicians, industry people, content creators that are in the music space, and learning all these other things that we're able to share, I'm able to share, you know, even outside the podcast. So, my new thing I'm fond of saying is, “I feel like a curator of you know, expertise, mistakes, and new trends that independent musicians want to use.” So that's how it started.

DA: What kind of gigs were you playing at the time?

Robonzo: I have always been predominantly like a club, private events, winery type of gig person. There are the occasional things that I consider a little unusual like playing at a Google corporate event or in a wedding occasionally. So, just getting out and gigging with rock bands, pop bands, dance bands, occasionally filling in for other types of genres.

And just for me, not every musician as you know, is of this ilk. But for me, I put myself out there to be a sub whenever possible to grow my network as a musician. So, just put myself out there and that started happening more and more. And before I know it, I have wonderful opportunities to work with four or five bands in any given quarter. A lot of them are cover bands and then some original artists. So that's predominantly what I was doing.

DA: Yeah, I think subbing is probably underrated. I used to do that quite a bit as a guitar teacher. And honestly, some of the most fruitful times as a guitar teacher were when I was subbing for a group of teachers who are working at the same store, Long & McQuade, up here in Canada. It was probably some of the best pay scale I've seen for teaching. So, I'm kind of glad to be out of the teaching space at this point, but I remember those being really good pay days.

Robonzo: Yeah, it's a blast. And, you know, if you're putting in your best, it's so fun to perform with a group of new musicians rehearsed and rehearsed. And, you know, they generally make you feel like a superstar. If you just go and make them look good, that's a lot of fun.

DA: That's so true. Yeah. And that's a really great tip too, is to be mindful of the musicians you're playing with and then complimenting them.

Robonzo: Totally. You know what? You also reminded me, I have a good friend who's got this monster of a band called The House Rockers. Once upon a time they were the Silicon Valley House Rockers which I almost said, but the House Rockers are a nine-piece band. The guy's a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. And I don't think they do any original music, but they are a working musician’s band. Many of the guys were full time musicians, not all of them. So, some of those guys sub quite a bit. And in fact, I got to play with one of them on a couple of his side projects. But anyway, back to my friend who leads the band, he really doesn't like it because he wants these guys to be available always, 100% of the time. And he's pretty good. I mean, what he's producing for his band and the musicians that he’s playing with is pretty special. The pay day is always good, and they really enjoy it. So, for the most part, they're probably 99% available, but there's the occasion where they're like, “Dang, you know, I can't do it. I got myself put on this other thing.” He really gets a little… I imagine he gets a little tense around the shoulders when I talk about subbing.

DA: I mean that is the life of a session musician, though, right? If you don't have your own band, or if you're just the kind of artists that everybody wants on their record or at their live show, I mean, that's the life. That's the way it is.

Robonzo: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, to state the obvious, on top of being a good player, and a conscientious player and, you know, listening to the musicians around you at all moments, being a nice, you know, a nice guy or a nice gal, to those that you work with. And beyond that, just like doing this personal inventory, or whatever we call it these days to make sure that we are because I have my moments where I'm not always the nicest guy or I get, you know, get my buttons pushed and say things I wish I wouldn't have but anyway to just always be mindful of that too. That, to me, you know, just the effort of trying to treat everyone like rock stars and being appreciative and having gratitude for all the opportunities took me so far. Just with gigging and so you know. I mean that transcends into everything we do, right?

DA: Yeah. I've had Matt star on the show. I remember him talking about the fact that it was so weird sort of like introducing himself to Ace Freely, or like Mr. Big, or whoever it was, and hobnobbing with them and trying to build that relationship so that he could ultimately get the gig. He's like, it's not really the intention. The intention, first and foremost, was to build that good strong connection and relationship. But I think it's still necessary, right? No matter how awkward or uncomfortable it feels, you just got to be a good hang and be around these people if you want the gig.

Robonzo: Yeah. I think it was my very first or second interview for the podcast was a friend from Texas who's been a working musician has done some really cool stuff over the years. One of the things he talked a lot about was, and he used that word, he’s from spending time in Nashville - the hang. He said it's all about the hang and relationships.

DA: Yeah, exactly. It really is. What other kind of tips are you sharing with musicians to help them improve their gigging income?

Robonzo: Outside of improving that, but it is related. Actually, it's very related, is to make sure that whatever projects you're working in, that you're happy with. If they're not creating joy, helping you create or realize joy in making the music that you're making, to just take a step back and think about how you can rectify that. Sometimes that means changing the situation. So that's a big one because you know. And I share this one lately because I've kind of experienced this in two facets of my life where I was doing something a little longer than I should have. But, you know, eventually, either by my own doing or by external forces, I am presented with the opportunity for things to change. And lo and behold, when you're doing things that you really enjoy,

Are you feeling overwhelmed? Are you constantly falling behind in some area of life? Do you feel like you’re letting others down? Do you feel like a failure?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I share how I’ve been able to accomplish more in four days than in the last four months.

Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – The outcomes of a whirlwind year

01:12 – The rocky ride of 2019

03:48 – Completing the transition

04:59 – The unresolved conflict

05:14 – More progress in four days than four months

05:27 – You’re the only one who can create your world as “overwhelming”

06:10 – Setting boundaries around communication

06:45 – Not having a routine can hurt your productivity

10:12 – What is overwhelm?

10:49 – Final thoughts

Transcription:

This has really been a whirlwind year for me.

A four-month personal development course I took at the front of the year had me creating a new community project and traveling to Vancouver.

Although it was an intense experience, it was worth the money and the effort, because I ended up with a bestselling book and I also brought on new team members to help me with my workload.

That was a byproduct of doing the work I was committed to doing rather than a promised outcome of engaging in community work, but who can argue with a result like that?

By the way, you can learn more about the bestselling book at davidandrewwiebe.com/Creative.

When I completed the personal development course in May, I felt unstoppable, like I could accomplish anything.

During that four-month period, however, my inbox was rapidly filling up and my project stack was growing. I was also starting to burn out.

And, shortly after, I had my heart broken, and that had me evaluating everything – my lifestyle, where I was living, what I was doing, what was next for me.

French poet, novelist and dramatist of the Romantic movement, Victor Hugo has been quoted as saying:

One cannot resist an idea whose time has come.

A few years earlier, I had been discussing the idea of becoming a digital nomad with Using Your Power co-host Maveen Kaura.

As I was on a walk early this summer, I recognized that the time had come for that idea.

And, it was only a matter of time before my roommate announced that she would be moving back to Vancouver.

Summer turned out to be a lot busier than expected, as I was already feeling devitalized from the rollercoaster ride, I was on.

I took my planned vacations – first in St. Catharines, Ontario in July, and then in Vancouver, BC and Austin, Texas in August.

While in Austin, I attended the DIY Musician Conference and that ended up being pivotal.

It was great meeting so many people I had already established a digital connection with but had never met in person.

Despite the praise and compliments I’ve received for my work; at different times I’ve questioned my involvement in this niche and whether I have anything useful to offer.

I think anyone who is honest with themselves has questioned their direction in life and this is nothing to be ashamed of.

Anyone who is honest with themselves has questioned their direction in life and this is nothing to be ashamed of.Share on X

But at the conference I affirmed that I’m doing exactly what I need to be doing.

By the time September had rolled around, I had to turn my focus to preparing for an early October move 10 hours westward.

Although I ended up putting the finishing touches on a new EP around that time, September moved by in a blur.

I attempted to keep up with my various commitments while preparing for the move, but the load continued to pile up as I was busy chiseling one small piece of a much bigger rock.

It was around that time that we had to put our sick family dog, Kenji, to rest. At this point, I’m not sure if I’m even close to completing the grieving process.

At the last minute, I got winter tires put on my car, which turned out to be a smart move. Unfortunately, I started to experience a myriad of problems with my car, which eventually broke down under an hour from my destination.

What was supposed to be a simple two-day journey extended into a three-day one and once I learned that my car couldn’t be repaired, I had to choose. And, I chose to buy a car.

Somehow, towards the beginning of October, I landed myself in Abbotsford, BC, a city a mere 70 km from Vancouver.

As I record this episode of the podcast, I’m sitting in my basement suite in Abbotsford. Let that sink in.

When 2019 began, I had no idea I would even be moving. Now I’m having a hard time remembering what life was like before.

It’s been over a month since I arrived in BC, and I’m still getting used to my new surroundings. Because I spend long days working, I sometimes forget that I’m in a new environment. My day to day hasn’t changed a whole lot, and I had no expectation that it would.

But there are a couple of reasons I came out here – 1) to see new sights and 2) to connect with people.

Although I know more people in Calgary than I do here, that’s going to be true of just about anywhere I go on my travels, except for Japan, where I grew up.

I had such a great experience meeting people in Austin that I wanted to keep the momentum going.

As I get settled in, I’m starting to connect with more people. And, again, because I forget that I’m in a new environment, I’m not always present to the fact that there is so much to see and do and experience out here, but gradually I’m becoming more present to that.

But before I get too carried away talking about BC, there is a lingering theme to the story I’ve been sharing, and I haven’t brought any resolution to it yet.

You may even be asking yourself: “whatever happened to the mountains of emails and projects you mentioned earlier?”

Admittedly, I’m still working my way through it, but I’ve made more progress in the last four days than I’ve made in the last four months.

How is that possible?

There are a couple of important factors at work here.

First, and most importantly, I got to see that I was the one creating the work as “overwhelming”.

The simple truth is there were things I didn’t want to do, and if I’m being honest, there were also things I fancied myself as being too important to do.

Yep. I’m coming clean – this year, I’ve been rather cold and dismissive in my communication and I take responsibility for that.

I thought I was guarding my precious time, and I do think that’s important. But talking to other entrepreneurs I came to realize that the issue was with me and how I was looking at my workload.

Now, I’m not saying you can, or even should, send me a message about anything and everything, but I do have 90 minutes per day set aside to communicating, so I should be able to get back to you in a reasonable amount of time.

Setting boundaries around communication is 100% necessary, however, and I would encourage every busy person to do it.

Setting boundaries around communication is 100% necessary, however, and I would encourage every busy person to do it.Share on X

Lately, I’ve been taking the first 90 minutes in my day to communicate with others and that has been working well.

And, if I know I’m not going to be able to respond to messages for longer stretches of time, I use an out of office notice.

Whether I’m sick, preparing to move, traveling, at a conference or otherwise, I’ve found immense value in this feature and I would encourage everyone to use it.

I’ve found clients and customers can’t argue with an “out of office” notice. Just don’t abuse it.

Clients and customers can’t argue with an “out of office” notice. Just don’t abuse it.Share on X

This ties nicely into my next point.

I’ve talked about the importance of routine before, but for most of 2019, I didn’t have one.

I think this finally clicked for me as I was working on The Music Entrepreneur Code, a new product you’ll be able to pre-order soon. You can learn more and get on the waiting list at davidandrewwiebe.com/Code.

There’s a section in there where I talk about this very thing, and I realized I wasn’t living what I was preaching.

Now, we can all fall out of alignment with the structures we’ve created for ourselves.

And, the tendency is to be down on yourself when this happens. But this doesn’t solve anything.

There’s a simple three step process that you can use to get back into integrity and it takes this form:

Recognize what didn’t work.

Acknowledge the impact.

Put a new structure in place.

So, don’t be afraid to fail. All you need to do is create a new structure that works. No need to concern yourself with what doesn’t work.

Don’t be afraid to fail. All you need to do is create a new structure that works.Share on X

Anyway, my new structure basically involves working in 90-minute blocks and taking 30-minute breaks after every 90-minute block.

During those 30 minutes, I’m reading, meditating, exercising, eating or playing guitar.

These 30-minute breaks serve another important function.

Sitting has been called the new smoking, so if you haven’t learned about the dangers of sitting for too long just yet, I would encourage you to Google it.

We also know that it’s good to disconnect from your devices regularly and the 30-minute breaks can encourage this.

Additionally, working in 90-minute blocks is something I picked up from Robin Sharma who says 90-minute stretches are optimal, and if I start my day early enough, I find this works amazingly.

Starting my day early enough was another flaw with my routine though. When I didn’t have proper structure, I always thought I would make up for my lack of productivity during the day by working late into the night.

And, while I did work late some nights, often I would feel exhausted and just tell myself I would do it tomorrow and pack it in for the day. That cycle went on for a long time.

Have you ever thought about using your musical talents in support of business?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, Tommy Zee shares his story, how he ended up becoming a producer and how to determine whether you’re living a fulfilling life.

Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – A quick note about today’s episode

00:57 – The many revenue streams available to musicians

02:32 – Making a difference in the lives of the people you’re serving

05:16 – What kept David going when he wanted to quit

06:37 – Is my life working?

10:13 – Simplifying music entrepreneurship

11:04 – Serving your clients in the studio

11:59 – There’s a difference between being an artist and an artisan

16:05 – The marriage between the artists and the funder

19:48 – Doing business in the music business

23:32 – The inordinate fixation on streaming platforms and Spotify

24:37 – Pricing your offers the right way

33:42 – The difference between a funnel and a chocolate wheel

35:38 – If you stay in your insanity long enough, you’ll have a breakthrough

42:22 – Using buzzwords in business

43:56 – Living a life you love

49:12 – Embracing a new chapter in your life

53:09 – Special offer for The New Music Industry Podcast listeners

57:04 – The products you create can transform

1:00:45 – Consume a course and become an expert

1:02:34 – Creating a human to human connection

1:02:58 – The Music Entrepreneur Code

Transcription:

Coming soon.

It has long been touted that remote studio collaboration is easier and more convenient than ever. But is it true?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with Ameen Abdulla, Founder and CEO of Soundwhale. Soundwhale brings audio collaboration to a whole new level.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Introductions

00:44 – Share your story with us

10:15 – Starting a movement

12:41 – Remote studio collaboration

22:12 – Losing clients to poor remote collaboration tech

27:03 – Soundwhale doesn’t use the Cloud?

29:38 – Beta launch?

31:14 – What is the greatest challenge you’ve overcome?

33:34 – What is the greatest victory you’ve experienced as an entrepreneur?

35:57 – Are there any books or other resources that have helped you on your journey?

38:01 – The importance of relaxation

41:25 – Wrap up

41:46 – The Music Entrepreneur Code

Transcription:

Coming soon.

Upgrade to Members Only Audios for more exciting, exclusive training.

Have you ever wondered why streaming platforms don’t allow you to create an in-depth artist profile? Have you asked yourself why you can’t view album credits and easily find all the tracks a specific session musician has played on?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with Ursa Music founders Chris Jones and Chad Royce. They offer great insights into their new and disruptive music streaming app.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Introduction

00:54 – The ability to create a profile on streaming sites

03:01 – Shifting into the digital age

05:55 – What are linkable credits?

08:45 – What are you most proud of with Ursa?

16:23 – Why hasn’t this been done before?

18:09 – What is the monetization potential on Ursa?

22:23 – Will Ursa Music be partnering with music distributors?

25:15 – Will music streaming have staying power?

28:10 – What is the greatest opportunity with streaming?

32:16 – What is the biggest challenge you’ve overcome as an entrepreneur?

36:46 – What is the greatest victory you’ve experienced as an entrepreneur?

40:52 – Are there any books or other resources that have helped you on your journey?

42:51 – Wrap up

43:56 – The Music Entrepreneur Code

Transcription:

Coming soon.

Upgrade to Members Only Audios for more exciting, exclusive training.

Have you ever thought about teaching music? Are you already a music teacher looking to increase your revenue?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I talk to music educator Wendy Brentnall-Wood and tease out insights about student retention, building revenue streams, how to avoid burnout and more.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Introduction

00:55 – Share about your passion

01:58 – From teaching students to teaching teachers

02:42 – Artistically inclined but business deficient

03:13 – Competition in music education

04:11 – Income potential in music education

04:44 – Student retention

07:01 – Value-added services

11:35 – Burnout with music teachers

14:44 – Teaching happens during social hours

15:58 – How can music teachers ensure profitability?

20:01 – Staying focused with your revenue streams

21:19 – How to store ideas

21:39 – The devaluing of music education

27:36 – Paying for quality

30:12 – What is the message you wanted to share through your book?

34:32 – Why did you write a book?

36:12 – What are some of the greatest challenges you’ve encountered?

37:48 – What are some of the greatest victories you’ve experienced?

39:19 – Are there any books or resources that have helped you on your journey?

40:48 – Is there anything else I should have asked?

Transcription:

Coming soon.

Upgrade to Members Only Audios for more exciting, exclusive training.

What inspires you to write? Do you feel like you’re able to write authentically, from the heart?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with Miami-based singer-songwriter Judah Holiday and deep dive into his process.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Is Judah Holiday your real name?

01:50 – What is the story behind your single, “Good Life”?

07:34 – The connection between writers and Adderall

08:34 – What is it that keeps you going when you feel like you’ve hit bottom?

10:19 – What inspired you to put pen to paper at 14?

15:02 – Counting to 10 in Japanese

16:31 – Turning difficult life moments in to catchy, uplifting songs

18:56 – The importance of giving voice to unexpressed feelings

22:57 – Today’s pop music and authentic expression

28:03 – How do you create a connection with your audience through your music?

31:16 – What is the music business algorithm?

33:56 – What’s next for Judah?

35:02 – Are there any books or resources that have helped you on your journey?

35:58 – Wrap up

Transcription:

Coming soon.

Upgrade to Members Only Audios for more exciting, exclusive training.

Interested in growing your label? Trying to figure out how to use your budget?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I share some tips on how to take your record label national.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – A mysterious question I’ve gotten a few times

01:20 – Tire kicker?

02:34 – Consider hiring a consultant, coach or mentor

03:44 – Do you know who your target audience is?

04:43 – A possible roadmap for our collaboration

04:53 – Free versus paid advice

05:34 – We could get national exposure for you tomorrow

06:22 – What does national exposure mean to you?

06:38 – #1: Facebook ads

07:32 – #2: Influencer/celebrity marketing

08:30 – #3: Direct mail

09:27 – #4: Radio

10:47 – #5: Television

11:54 – #6: Podcast tours

12:50 – Closing thoughts

13:33 – The New Music Industry: Adapting, Growing, and Thriving in The Information Age

Transcription:

Today, I wanted to answer a question that I sometimes see come through my inbox. Now, before I go anywhere with this, I do want to let you know that we appreciate the questions that come through. They really do form the foundation of the content we curate at the Music Entrepreneur HQ and we do consider content to be one of our most important and strongest assets.

You know, I would not have published four books if that were not the case. So keep sending those questions. But we do want you to bear this in mind as you listen to this episode.

I sometimes get a question, something along the lines of, I have a million dollars to spend and I want my label to go national. How would you suggest I spend that money? And this is a really weird question. Let me just say at the outset that that is one of the strangest questions you could ask.

Now, I understand maybe that is a true concern for you, but it seems to me that it's more likely it's tire kickers that are coming along and asking that question. Just to see, you know, I wonder if this music consultant guy is any good. I have a feeling he's not that great.

So let's just ask, let's just see how he would budget a million dollars. Because a million dollars seems like an overwhelming amount to a lot of people. Now, if you're in big business, a million dollars really is nothing.

But for the average person or the average musician, a million dollars would be a lot of money. So they just want to throw out some kind of astronomical figure to stump you. Well, here's how I'm gonna answer that question.

Now, there are hundreds of different marketing channels we could utilize to help your label go national. But I want to address the fact that you might just be a tire kicker to begin with before we even talk about how we might potentially market your up and coming label. If you've got a million dollars to spend, has it ever occurred to you that you might want to take a small piece of that budget and give it to a consultant or coach or mentor or somebody who might be able to help you with this process? I imagine there's a reason you're contacting me specifically.

I'm not saying you haven't reached out to other music consultants, as I'm sure you have. But here's the thing. This is how I make my living.

I offer advice and tips, and tools for musicians. I create books and eBooks and courses. And we also do some advertising and affiliate things on the website.

But I also offer one-on-one coaching. Were you aware of that fact? Maybe not. Here's the thing.

If you had said, I have a million dollars to spend and I'm gonna give you 10% of that to help us create a marketing strategy for our label, I would be on the next flight down to wherever you happen to be located. And we would begin to get to work on this right away. I would help you hammer out a strategy based on your target audience.

But here's the thing. You don't even know who your target audience is in the first place, do you? Because if you did, you wouldn't be asking such a general question. And if you've got such a great label, doesn't that also mean that you've got some awesome artists signed to your label already? Can't you utilize their star power to help you market your label? I'm glad that you've got such great ambitions and stacks of money to spend.

That is fantastic. You're gonna need that money though, because it doesn't seem like you've taken inventory of any other assets that might help you create a proper strategic marketing strategy that's gonna help you go national. So again, I appreciate the question and I want you to keep sending those questions because they are what form the foundation of the content that we create for you at the Music Entrepreneur HQ to help you in the way that you need.

But if you come to me asking for my advice, what I'm going to do is propose a possible roadmap for our collaboration for mutual benefit. Here's the thing, even if I give you  great free advice, and I believe I certainly have at times, if you don't take it, it's not worth anything. But if you paid me for the advice an amount that would be a lot to you, you would probably take me much more seriously and would be more willing to act on it because you would be going, hmm, you know, I just spent $10,000 on David Andrew Wiebe's expertise.

I really wanna take action on the things that he said because I want to make it worthwhile. And that's how business works. I benefit you and you benefit me.

It doesn't really work any other way. So with that out of the way, and assuming you're not just a tire kicker coming looking to see what type of marketing advice I might have, because honestly, I read a lot of books. I listen to a lot of podcasts.

I watch courses and videos and read tons of articles. There are so many marketing tactics out there that we could employ to market your label and get national exposure tomorrow. And I'm not just talking about theory here either.

I've tested and experimented with a variety of tactics and strategies depending on the type of business as well as the client. So this is not coming strictly from a hypothetical place. It's also coming from quite a bit of experience at this point.

Now, you never bothered to define what national exposure meant to you and how you would be able to quantify that because again, you're not really serious about this, are you? But if I were you, nevertheless, the first thing I would focus on is Facebook ads. It's a really, really fast way of getting in front of the people that might be interested in what you have to offer. Before we get to that, we would spend some time studying and researching your target audience because at this point, we have no clue.

You've provided me with no data. I don't know what kind of label you are. I don't know what kind of artists you represent.

I don't know what kind of genre or music that they play. So we have no information to go on. But in general, I would target people in North America.

And knowing that some of the biggest spenders are preteen girls and teenage girls, that seems to be a pretty good place to start. Of course, it's really gonna depend on the style of music and audience that likes that style of music. And since we have none of that information, that's the best I can give you.

Number two, could you collaborate with a celebrity, a well-known artist, or some kind of public figure to draw attention to the business? People get irrational about celebrities. If people really trusted doctors, we would see them more in proactive paid advertisements. Instead, what we see are celebrities helping to promote the brand because again, people are irrational about celebrity.

And when they see their favorite celebrities endorsing a product, they can't help but want to buy it. If you're going to build a label, guess what? You're probably going to need to sign and work with some awesome artists. And by the time they've signed a contract with you, you will probably have a much better idea of how to plan and structure your marketing campaign to help get your label out into the world.

Number three is direct mail. Now, this might catch some of you off guard. Why would you use direct mail, which people generally think of as junk mail that arrives in their mailbox and they just want to throw it away the moment it comes anyway? Well, if you had a direct mail piece that was a large envelope with a big bold letters, free music inside, and I could pull out a CD and I could pop it in my computer or CD player or other media device, have a listen to it, I'm going to get a sense of the kind of music that you're offering.

And because you gave me something for free, I'm going to be more inclined to give you something back that's of value. I'm not saying your open rates are going to be through the roof, but they should be reasonably good, all things considered, because there's not a lot of direct mail pieces like that showing up in people's mailboxes anymore. Number four, radio.

As a record label, you're going to want to develop a relationship with the preexisting industry. Radio still wields quite a bit of power, even with all the streaming platforms that have come along. And by the way, it might be worth developing some partnerships with streaming sites as well, don't you think? You're going to want to think like an entrepreneur here.

Maybe you could go and record a single for one of your most prominent artists and help get radio airplay for that. And then ask the radio stations to share about your label every time they play that song. Maybe you could book yourself a radio tour and give interviews everywhere you go.

And barring all other possibilities, and by all other possibilities, I don't mean the two I just mentioned. I'm sure you could come up with a few more. Please do.

But barring all other possibilities, you can still take out ads on the radio. And if you have some great-sounding, compelling ads, which again,

Have you been thinking about attending CD Baby’s DIY Musician Conference? Not sure whether it's worth it?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I reflect on the DIY Musician Conference with Greg Wilnau of Musician Monster.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – Special episode with guest Greg Wilnau

00:57 – Austin serendipities

02:02 – What did David get out of the DIY Musician Conference?

03:16 – Meeting people in person for the first time

05:27 – Being mindful of your own energy levels

06:59 – What is your purpose for going to a conference?

11:00 – Is the DIY Musician Conference worth going to?

14:42 – How lasting connections are created

16:07 – Degrees of comfort with creating different content types

19:08 – Learning business is the same thing as learning music

24:11 – Until you confront the ordinariness of your life, you can’t become extraordinary

27:28 – It’s harder to get noticed online than it is on stage

28:31 – Every overnight success is 10 years in the making

29:43 – The costs of attending the conference

31:44 – Weather conditions in different parts of the world

32:47 – Fun in Austin, TX

34:02 – Closing thoughts

34:34 – Where to learn about attending events and conferences

Transcription:

David Andrew: All right. Today, I've got a very special episode. I wanted to do a post mortem and review of the DIY Musician Conference in Austin, which was now about a month ago, but who better to have on the show to help me wrap this up than founder and CEO of Musician Monster Greg Wilnau.

So, how are you Greg?

Greg: Doing great, David. How are you doing?

David Andrew: I'm doing awesome. I guess just for a little bit of context, Greg and I managed to meet up down in Austin. And it was kind of a fluke accident because we didn't know we would both be there at the same time.

Greg: No, we didn't. It was cool. I was coming out of, I think it was one of the talks, and I walked by. I kind of just glanced over and I saw the name tag, David Andrew from Music Entrepreneur. And I was like, "No way!"

I just kept on walking. I thought maybe I'm seeing things. I kept walking. I turned around. I looked back, and I was like, "That's David! What's up, man?" It was just really cool. We hung out the whole time.

David Andrew: We did. We did. And it ended up being a lot of fun. You know, it's not that there weren't people I didn't know there but they were all kind of working, right, at their various booths, or they were doing some presenting or in the case of like Kevin Breuner or Chris Robley, they're, you know, they're doing podcast recordings. And this and that and the other.

So, really, it was great to have someone else that didn't have any commitments and wasn't obligated to be at their booth or whatever to spend some time with.

Greg: Yeah, man. Absolutely. So, what did you get out of the--? I know you're not interviewing me but I'm totally curious. What did you get out of the conference? Why do you think that it's a good thing to go to? What did you get out of it?

David Andrew: Oh, that's perfect. We should definitely go back and forth on on any questions.

You know, I found the conference to be really chill. That was kind of surprising to me because you know what, some conferences, some events can be a little stressful and hurried. There can be like so many people, so many booths, so many places to go around, or breakout sessions to go to that it can frankly just start to feel very overwhelming.

Greg: Exactly.

David Andrew: I really did not get that sense from this conference at all. It wasn't too small but it wasn't too big. You know what I mean? It was a good size. You could meet whoever you wanted to meet, if you knew who they were.

Greg: Absolutely,

David Andrew: Yeah. Like many of the people that I've built a relationship with online, I got a chance to meet in person. And just like you, I had those moments too where I was just looking or staring at someone's name tag going, "Holy crap, is that so and so?" And then I go up and introduce myself. Sure enough. And then we have a conversation about, you know, whatever we were working on together online.

Greg: Yeah, absolutely. It was interesting. It's always weird meeting people who you've only previously met online.

David Andrew: It can be.

Greg: You know, it's almost like they're a celebrity. You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, my gosh. They're in person right now." I think that meeting somebody in real life always kind of solidifies the relationship. We're like, "It's not official until you meet in person."

But it's interesting because... I don't know if you're... If you're anything like me, I'm pretty introverted. You know, I'm a musician. I'm super creative. I'm very comfortable being alone and by myself. So, I'm always nervous whenever I go to conferences. You know what I mean?

But I've never regretted... I think this is my second or third conference. The first conference I went to, I was super nervous because I had been just working from home and doing my music business from home and I was like, you know, super awkward around people you know. I've always been awkward around people. I'm definitely not that suave smooth operator.

But this conference, you're right dude. It felt a lot different. It was super casual. No pressure. I liked it too because most of the people there obviously were musicians. So, I definitely got the impression that it was casual on purpose.

David Andrew: Yeah. I think it must have been because another thing too is that I just got the sense that these are people that get me, you know. And maybe it's because for the first time in a while, I'm actually getting out and seeing some of the people who would be my target audience for this podcast, or for my blog, or for the website or what have you.

But I just found that, you know, I wasn't getting like a deer in the headlights, dead stare from people when I started talking about what I'm doing. Whereas where I live in Calgary...

Greg: Absolutely. Absolutely.

David Andrew: All the time people just have no clue. You talk about internet business. You talk about authoring books. You talk about advertising, or affiliate marketing, or whatever.

Greg: Most people are just like, "Yep. That's cool. Okay."

David Andrew: "That's interesting. So, do you make any money at that?"

Greg: Or, "Do you like sports?" So, they change the subject. They don't even know.

So, that's the thing. Like it's so important, I think, to be around other people who are into what you do. And if you're a musician, there's a difference between somebody who's a musician and somebody who's determined to make it on their own. Right? Who's made that decision instead of just hoping somebody will discover them and make things happen for them. A musician who has said, "Okay. It's up to me. I'm going to do it. Bring it on."

It's important to be around people who are into what you do.Share on X

So, being around other musicians who are like that, and have that mindset is so freaking critical to staying encouraged, focused, motivated and inspired. And to me, that's one of the biggest benefits of going to these things. You leave so energized. Right?

David Andrew: Yeah.

And you never know who you could meet too? You know what I mean?

David Andrew: Absolutely. No, I absolutely felt energized going to this conference. And, you know, I was pretty burnt out going into it. So like, I've been trying to take a couple vacations this past summer. I still had to be mindful of like, my own energy. Like, if I didn't feel like or didn't feel like I could wake up, you know, super early to be there early, I didn't. And if I didn't feel like I could stay late, I didn't. I just took care of myself instead.

But I still tried to soak in as much as I possibly could while I was there because, you know, this only happens once a year.

Greg: Yeah, absolutely.

David Andrew: Yeah.

Greg: I'm curious to know, what you...? I mean, again, I'm not interviewing you. I'm a guest on your podcast. I guess we're just having a casual conversation here. So no pressure.

David Andrew: Exactly.

Greg: I was wondering. I think we talked about this when we were at the conference. It was the purpose of going, right.

David Andrew: Yeah.

Greg: And I was telling you that, personally, my perspective when I go to a conference isn't necessarily to learn things as much, even though that can be a result, an implicit result of going, I think. But my intention of going is to meet people. Right?

David Andrew: Yeah.

Greg: I was curious as to what your thoughts were on that. Because obviously, people who are listening to this are going to be interested in the conference, and maybe the benefits of going. Maybe they might not want to go. They're not sure if it'd be worth it.

So, I'm just wondering if we could kind of talk about that, and maybe your own interpretations about what your thoughts are on the motivation to go.

David Andrew: I mean some of the motivating factors for me – I'll just start there – are that, you know, I applied to be a speaker there. I guess their roster was pretty full.

Now, my impression of what is going on at the conference right now is that it's actually still fairly small. I would imagine there's going to be certain limitations on personnel, as well as monetary resources to have a lot more breakout sessions than they already did. That's just my impression.

But my point being that, you know, I didn't get to speak at the CD Baby DIY Musician Conference. And instead, I was given a free ticket. So, you know, that did not...

Greg: Sweet.

David Andrew: Yeah, that didn't cover my expenses as far as traveling to Austin or, you know, food or lodging or any of that was concerned,

Shopify is one of the most popular and powerful tools for building an eCommerce site. So, why can’t musicians use it to set up their online stores?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I chat with Tommy Stalknecht of Single Music. Their platform integrates with Shopify and offers relevant analytics to help you grow your music career.

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Podcast Highlights:

00:34 – What is Single Music?

01:54 – What makes Shopify great for musicians?

03:21 – The challenge of cobbling together different technology to build your online store

04:37 – Focusing on your creative vision

06:03 – Can Single Music be used by independent artists?

07:44 – Independent artists are more agile

08:47 – The evolution of technology

09:45 – Crowdfunding with Single Music

13:10 – Single Music allows you to see exactly who bought your music

16:17 – Single Music reports to Nielsen SoundScan and why that’s important

18:29 – Wait, you can still sell CDs as a musician?

20:06 – What is the story behind Single Music?

23:30 – What sort of freelancing work were you engaging in?

26:16 – Any other thoughts on Single Music?

28:07 – Bundling and packaging your music products

29:33 – What is the greatest challenge you’ve overcome as an entrepreneur?

30:30 – Gaining trust with musicians

31:33 – What’s the biggest victory you’ve experienced as an entrepreneur

32:23 – Sharing your vision and collaboration

34:29 – Are there any books or other resources that have helped you on your journey?

36:26 – Concluding thoughts

Transcription:

Coming soon.

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