In this episode, we’re bringing you the second portion of another interview with Duncan Kennedy. Here, Craig Orbelian and Duncan discuss Duncan’s 1983 work “Legal Education and the Reproduction of Hierarchy: A Polemic Against the System.”

In it, Kennedy critiques the various ways the American legal education system contributes to and reinforces gender, socioeconomic, and racial hierarchies. Kennedy touches upon ideas such as:

• The impacts of radical law student activist groups that organized against administrative bodies and the broader institutions as a whole in the 1970s/1980s.
• Potential contributors that spurred a generational deradicalization of those leftist student activist coalitions in recent years. 
• How CLS scholars and other cultural critics’ critiques of law school classrooms contributed to reforms in the repressive hierarchies found in these spaces. 
• What it has looked like to shift away from the more traditionally brutal pedagogical regime towards a more liberal, softer style of teaching. 
• And finally, among other things, Kennedy considers and discusses law professors’ techniques aimed at combating the gunner hierarchy and some of the drawbacks of these approaches, resistance as a habit and not just an activity, and what is meant by CLS members acting in their own interests. 

For more information and links on this episode and The Critical Legal Theory Podcast, visit our webpage.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

In this episode, we’re bringing you the first portion of another interview with Duncan Kennedy. Here, Craig Orbelian and Duncan discuss Duncan’s 1981 Root Room lecture which formed the basis of  his essay “Rebels From Principle.”

In the written piece and the talk, Duncan attempted to deconstruct the psychic dichotomy, prevalent among many leftist and left-leaning law students, that one could either enter a career in public interest work, or entirely abandon one’s values to achieve wealth and conventional “success” at a morally corrupting corporate law firm. He suggested the options did not have to be so black and white – and rebellion is possible in any context. “Sly resistance,” as he termed it, obviously wouldn’t do anything to change the systemic entrenchment of corporate power – rather, sly resistance within the law firm offered a way to “​​deal with” the perhaps unresolvable psychic situation of being enmeshed in something you perceive as profoundly illegitimate. Craig and Duncan explore, and respond to, a few of the many wide-reaching critiques provoked by the Root Room talk and related essay.

Visit the podcast webpage (containing links and other materials) here.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

In this episode, you’ll hear the second part of an interview with Duncan Kennedy by Rio Pierce. In this part, Kennedy delves into his family’s personal history and his own early, formative educational and professional life experiences. He touches on ideas like: 

•  His mother's commitment to living an Upper Bohemian lifestyle, especially in contrast with her family’s proud, upper-middle class background.
• The impacts of the third and fourth social work movements on his father’s parents work as social workers in Chicago
• How his early educational years at Shady Hill and Andover informed his burgeoning curiosities and identity
• The role his ideologically complex post-secondary experiences at Harvard College and Yale Law School played in shaping his intellectual development 
• What it meant to be a Cold War Liberal; his perspective on the Vietnam War and avoiding the draft; and his time spent working for the CIA between college and law school. 

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

In this episode, you’ll hear the first part of an interview with Duncan Kennedy by Rio Pierce. In this part, Kennedy discusses the value of oral histories and delves into a personal and cultural history of CLS. He touches on ideas like: 

• What it really means when we refer to “the elite”
•  How the substance of movement politics might be affected by its leaders’ childhood and family life
• What it means to be a self-serving, solidaristic, and ethically imperfect radical
• How the tumult of the 60s and shared experiences of a generation informed the movement as a whole.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

Duncan Kennedy is the Carter Professor of General Jurisprudence, Emeritus at Harvard Law School. He is well known as one of the founders of the Critical Legal Studies movement.

This episode is the final segment of Abbey Marr’s interview of Professor Duncan Kennedy. In this Part, Abbey and Duncan expand upon their  discussion of the role of identity, gender, and hierarchy within CLS and other social movements.

Kennedy begins by talking about his 1985 article, Psycho-Social CLS and, building on that, the discussion turns again to hierarchy, and especially of internal hierarchy within the CLS movement, touching on questions like: What is the role of desire in the mentor-mentee relationship? In homosocial/homoerotic mentor/mentee relationships? What about when women become increasingly involved in the CLS movement, and Catharine MacKinnon puts words to the eroticization of domination? How should mentors view their mentees -- as extensions of themselves? As people free to develop their own works and careers?

Marr and Kennedy  then return to the topic of how CLS ended as a movement and explore the lasting  impact of CLS on legal education and leftist impulses in 21st-century legal academia.

Disclaimer: This episode contains explicit language.

Throughout this episode, you’ll hear Duncan refer to people, events, and scholarly works that impacted or interacted with CLS. You can find links to most of those among the "Referenced Scholars and Works" as well as a rough transcript of the entire episode on our website page: https://systemicjustice.org/2022/08/clt-podcast-episode-6-duncan-kennedy-on-the-emergence-of-the-cls-movement-part-three/.  

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

Duncan Kennedy is the Carter Professor of General Jurisprudence, Emeritus at Harvard Law School. He is well known as one of the founders of the Critical Legal Studies movement.

This episode contains the second part of Abbey Marr’s three-part interview of Professor Duncan Kennedy. In this part of their discussion, Duncan focuses on questions of hierarchy. How could a movement built on the idea of criticizing illegitimate hierarchy structure itself without reproducing the very sort of hierarchies it sought to resist?

Kennedy discusses CLS critiques of hierarchy within what he calls the “profoundly conservatizing” law school classroom. He describes his efforts to address some of the harmful tendencies of the Socratic method and to disarm the so-called “gunners” by adopting the no-hassle pass and other pedagogical tactics. 

This portion of the interview begins to explore the complex intersectional tensions along vectors of race and gender and the growing fractures that would contribute to the sudden and complete burnout of CLS as a movement in the early 1990s. 

Throughout this episode, you’ll hear Duncan refer to people, events, and scholarly works that impacted or interacted with CLS. You can find links to most of those among the "Referenced Scholars and Works" as well as a rough transcript of the entire episode on our website page: https://systemicjustice.org/2022/08/episode-5-duncan-kennedy-on-the-emergence-of-the-critical-legal-studies-movement-part-two/. 

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

Duncan Kennedy is the Carter Professor of General Jurisprudence, Emeritus at Harvard Law School. He is well known as one of the founders of the Critical Legal Studies movement.

This episode is the first part of Abbey Marr’s interview of Professor Duncan Kennedy. In it, Abbey and Duncan discuss the emergence of the Critical Legal Studies movement and the role of personality in shaping the movement. Kennedy inventories the variety of skills needed for movement-building– including organizers, recruiters, inspiring orators, and relationship-builders–and explains how different types of people played different roles as the movement grew and evolved. He also sketches the social and political context that shaped CLS in the late 70s and early 80s.

Later in the interview, Kennedy discusses what he has more recently described as CLS’s “syndicalist principle”-- that “democratizing the internal life of the law school was a completely valid form of left activity even if it contributed nothing directly or immediately to changing society beyond the workplace.” 

He also highlights  the struggle of movement participants to embed themselves–and their ideas–in the faculties of American law schools resistant to those ideas.. 

Throughout this episode, you’ll hear Duncan refer to people, events, and scholarly works that impacted or interacted with CLS. You can find links to most of those among the "Referenced Scholars and Works" as well as a rough transcript of the entire episode on our website page: https://systemicjustice.org/2022/08/episode-4-duncan-kennedy-on-the-emergence-of-the-critical-legal-studies-movement-part-one-2/. 

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

Professor Trubek traces the origins of the Critical Legal Studies movement back to Yale Law School in the 1960s -- where some junior faculty, including Professor Trubek, and a group of students, like Duncan Kennedy and Mark Tushnet, began developing a network of scholars and students who were shaped by the student movements and zeitgeist of the 1960s and were opposed to the hierarchies and traditions of law and legal education. 

Professor Trubek also sketches some of the interpersonal, intergenerational, theoretical, and methodological tensions that were apparent even at initial CLS meetings and that would continue to dog the movement until its demise. 

During this interview, you’ll hear Professor Trubek mention some of the other influential figures in the Critical Legal Studies movement, including Peter Gabel, and Karl Klare. He also refers to other schools of thought in the academic landscape surrounding Critical Legal Studies, including Law and Society, legal realism, and legal process. 

You can find more detailed show notes, transcripts, and pertinent links on the podcast page of the Systemic Justice website: https://systemicjustice.org/systemic-justice-podcast/.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

Professor Trubek traces the origins of the Critical Legal Studies movement back to Yale Law School in the 1960s -- where some junior faculty, including Professor Trubek, and a group of students, like Duncan Kennedy and Mark Tushnet, began developing a network of scholars and students who were shaped by the student movements and zeitgeist of the 1960s and were opposed to the hierarchies and traditions of law and legal education. 

Professor Trubek also sketches some of the interpersonal, intergenerational, theoretical, and methodological tensions that were apparent even at initial CLS meetings and that would continue to dog the movement until its demise. 

During this interview, you’ll hear Professor Trubek mention some of the other influential figures in the Critical Legal Studies movement, including Peter Gabel, and Karl Klare. He also refers to other schools of thought in the academic landscape surrounding Critical Legal Studies, including Law and Society, legal realism, and legal process. 

You can find more detailed show notes, transcripts, and pertinent links on the podcast page of the Systemic Justice website: https://systemicjustice.org/systemic-justice-podcast/.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org

The Critical Legal Theory Podcast focuses on legal theorists, lawyers, activists, and organizers, who share their stories about the origins, evolution, and influence of critical legal theories.

This season, we will share interviews with legal scholars (including Duncan Kennedy, David Trubek, Peter Gabel, Karl Klare, Mark Tushnet, and Kimberlé Crenshaw) regarding the history of the Critical Legal Studies Movement — also known as CLS.

The interviews explore the intellectual, political, social, and economic context shaping the CLS movement and some of the effects of, and reactions to, CLS scholarship then and now.

You can find more detailed show notes, transcripts, and pertinent links on the podcast page of the Systemic Justice website: https://systemicjustice.org/systemic-justice-podcast/.

Visit the Systemic Justice Project website at systemicjustice.org