Crossing the Line: The NCSESAME Podcast

Stacie Love was groomed by her high school English teacher and later married him. For years, the people around her treated what happened as a love story. It wasn't. It was manipulation.

And then Homeland Security came to their front door.

Katy Klein and Sydney Gladu, the creators and producers of "Not Just a Terrible Story," join host Joelle Casteix to discuss the reporting that challenged that narrative—and exposed a larger history of educator sexual misconduct at Centennial High School in Oregon.

In Episode 16 of Crossing the Line, we examine how grooming reaches beyond a student to families and communities, why survivors may take decades to recognize abuse, and what happens when schools ignore warnings or fail to investigate.

Katy and Sydney also share what it took to obtain public records, the importance of student voices, and how they approached Stacie’s story through consent-based, trauma-informed reporting.

Content warning: This episode discusses educator sexual misconduct, grooming, sexual abuse, and institutional failure.

Listen to Not Just a Terrible Story wherever you get your podcasts.

To learn more about NCSESAME and how to prevent and expose educator sexual misconduct, visit https://www.ncsesame.org.

Stacie on TikTok: @stacielove_

Music rights: composer-k8lecvbvh

A woman discovers the hidden truth behind her marriage to her former teacher, exposing a culture of complicity and decades of alleged educator sexual misconduct.

When Stacie Love married her former high school teacher, she thought it was a whirlwind romance. 

Two decades later, she discovered the truth behind the day their lives unraveled: a federal search, an unseen investigation, and a story far darker than she ever knew. Not Just A Terrible Story is a six-part investigation into one woman’s search for the truth, the scourge of alleged educator sexual misconduct, and a culture of complicity that protected predators for decades.

For more than four decades, Dr. Charol Shakeshaft has researched educator sexual misconduct and institutional conditions that allow it to continue. Her landmark (and controversial) work for the U.S. Department of Education helped establish the scope of the problem and changed how schools, researchers, and policymakers understand it.

In this episode of Crossing the Line, Dr. Shakeshaft explains why schools so often protect adults and institutions instead of students. She and host Joelle Casteix discuss the language that minimizes abuse, the long-term effects on survivors, the failures of school policies and training, and the practice commonly known as “passing the trash.”

They also examine what schools can do differently, including establishing clear boundaries, training employees to recognize and report concerning conduct, asking direct questions during hiring, documenting concerns, and creating a courageous culture in which speaking up is expected and supported.

Dr. Shakeshaft is Professor Emerita of Educational Leadership at Virginia Commonwealth University and the author of Organizational Betrayal: How Schools Enable Sexual Misconduct and How to Stop It. Drawing on hundreds of cases, the book offers practical guidance and detailed checklists for parents, educators, and school leaders.

Learn more about educator sexual misconduct and NCSESAME’s work to make schools safer at ncsesame.org.

Crossing the Line is produced by the National Center to Stop Educator Sexual Abuse, Misconduct, and Exploitation.

Buy the book

Learn more about Charol here

Matt Antkowiak spent decades investigating crimes against children before publicly revealing that he was also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

In this episode of Crossing the Line, the retired police chief joins host Joelle Casteix for a candid conversation about educator sexual abuse, grooming, institutional cover-ups, survivor-centered investigations, and leadership during a crisis.

Matt recounts the school abuse investigation that uncovered allegations involving a teacher and principal, the institutional resistance investigators encountered, and the evidence that helped expose a much larger history of misconduct. He also explains how his own trauma shaped his career, why listening carefully to a student’s outcry matters, and what school leaders must do when protecting children conflicts with protecting an institution.

The conversation explores:

• How grooming can progress almost imperceptibly
• Why institutional betrayal can deepen a survivor’s trauma
• The role of school administrators, law enforcement, and mandated reporters
• How media attention can help uncover additional victims and evidence
• Why survivor-centered investigations must minimize repeated questioning
• Practical boundaries that protect students and educators
• The need for meaningful accountability when schools conceal abuse

Matt Antkowiak is a survivor, retired police chief, Army veteran, investigator, and author of Unconquerable: A Journey from Abuse to Protector to Advocate.

Learn more about Matt at mattantkowiak.com.

Crossing the Line is produced by NCSESAME, the National Center to Stop Educator Sexual Abuse, Misconduct, and Exploitation. Learn more, access resources, or support this work at ncsesame.org.

What happens when two women—living in different states—discover they were groomed and sexually abused by the same teacher?

In this powerful episode of Crossing the Line, host Joelle Casteix sits down with Sarah Hedlund and Diana Mondragon, hosts of the podcast Blooming After Grooming, to discuss the extraordinary journey that brought them together.

After years of believing they were alone, Sarah found Diana through a series of online clues. That single text message led to an unlikely friendship, a shared search for accountability, and a podcast that is helping survivors around the world feel seen.

Together, they discuss:

• How grooming can continue long after childhood
• Why educator sexual abuse is so often misunderstood
• The devastating impact of institutional betrayal
• How schools, families, and communities miss warning signs
• Healing, friendship, and finding purpose after trauma
• Why changing the conversation is essential to preventing future abuse

This conversation is honest, hopeful, and deeply human. Whether you're a survivor, parent, educator, advocate, or simply someone who wants to better understand grooming and abuse dynamics, this episode offers insight, validation, and hope.

Guest Hosts:
Sarah Hedlund & Diana Mondragon
Hosts of Blooming After Grooming

https://www.bloomingafterpod.com/

What happens when a survivor's story doesn't fit society's expectations?

In this powerful episode of Crossing the Line, host Joelle Casteixspeaks with educator, researcher, advocate, and survivor Dr. Donna Bulatowicz, whose life was forever changed by abuse at the hands of a female elementary school teacher.

Donna shares her deeply personal story of grooming, abuse, institutional betrayal, retaliation, and the long road to healing. Her experience highlights a reality that is often ignored in discussions about child sexual abuse: women can be perpetrators, girls can be victims, and society's blind spots can leave survivors isolated and unheard.

Together, Joelle and Donna explore why female-on-female abuse remains under-researched, why so many survivors struggle to find validation and support, and what parents, educators, and policymakers need to understand if we are serious about protecting children.

This conversation challenges assumptions, exposes dangerous myths, and offers practical guidance for prevention.

About the Guest

Dr. Donna Bulatowicz is an educator, researcher, survivor advocate, and teacher educator whose work focuses on educator sexual misconduct, female perpetration, survivor experiences, and prevention. Through her scholarship andadvocacy, she is helping shine a light on a population of survivors who have too often been overlooked.

Books mentioned:

Can I Give You a Squish by Emily Neilson

Rissy No Kissies by Katey Howes

The Brave Knight by Diane Tarantini

Listen to the Girls by Chrystal Giles

NOTE: This episode is audio only.

What does it take to speak truth to power when no one wants to listen?

In this special crossover episode of Crossing the Line and Blooming After Grooming, host Joelle Casteix shares her personal journey from survivor advocate to nationally recognized voice for accountability, child protection, and institutional reform.

Long before the #MeToo movement, Joelle was challenging powerful institutions, exposing abuse cover-ups, and advocating for survivors at great personal and professional cost. In this candid conversation, she discusses what it was like to be labeled "difficult," the realities of speaking out against the Catholic Church, and the lessons she has learned from decades of advocacy.

Together, we explore survivor healing, resilience, whistleblowing, institutional betrayal, and the importance of continuing to make noise—even when change feels impossible.

Whether you're a survivor, advocate, educator, parent, journalist, or simply someone interested in how social change happens, this conversation offers insight, hope, and a powerful reminder that one voice can make a difference.

Topics discussed:
• Survivor advocacy and healing
• Grooming, abuse, and institutional accountability
• The Catholic Church abuse crisis
• Whistleblowing and speaking truth to power
• Life before and after #MeToo
• Resilience, hope, and creating systemic change
• Child protection and prevention

Subscribe to Blooming After Grooming and Crossing the Line wherever you get your podcasts.

https://www.bloomingafterpod.com/

Before it’s abuse, it’s grooming.

In this deeply powerful episode of Crossing the Line, Joelle Casteix speaks with survivor, advocate, and national speaker Michelle Denault about how educator sexual abuse often begins—not with force, but with manipulation, attention, secrecy, and emotional dependency.

Michelle shares the devastating story of how, at just 14 years old, she was groomed by a popular teacher and coach who convinced her for years that their abusive relationship was “love.” What followed was nearly a decade of manipulation, secrecy, victim-blaming, and institutional failure.

Together, Joelle and Michelle unpack:

• How grooming actually works
• Why “good kids” and loving families are still vulnerable
• The dangerous myths society still believes about educator abuse
• How shame keeps survivors silent for decades
• The lifelong psychological impact of coercive relationships
• The role schools and communities play in enabling abuse
• Why prevention requires adults to recognize the warning signs before abuse escalates

Michelle also discusses the national prevention and training work she now does with schools, law enforcement, and educators across the country—helping adults understand the realities of grooming, power, coercion, and survivor support.

This conversation is emotional, candid, and essential listening for parents, educators, policymakers, and anyone committed to protecting children.

Resources:

• Michelle Denault: MichelleDenault.com
• National Center to Stop Educator Sexual Abuse, Misconduct, and Exploitation (NCSESAME)
• Crossing the Line Podcast

International student exchange programs promise opportunity, cultural immersion, and safety. But what happens when oversight fails?

In this episode of Crossing the Line, host Joelle Casteix speaks with Danielle Grijalva, founder of the Committee for Safety of Foreign Exchange Students, who has spent nearly two decades documenting cases of abuse, exploitation, and systemic failure within the international exchange industry.

Drawing on thousands of reported cases, this conversation exposes critical gaps in oversight—from inadequate background checks and lack of accountability to the silencing of vulnerable students far from home.

This episode is essential listening for parents, educators, and policymakers navigating student exchange programs.

In this episode:

• The reality behind international exchange program safety
• Patterns of abuse and exploitation in host placements
• Why reporting systems often fail students
• Key questions every parent should ask before sending a child abroad
• What educators can do when something doesn’t seem right

If you’re considering a student exchange program—or working with exchange students—this conversation may change how you think about safety and oversight.

Committee for Safety of Foreign Exchange Students: https://csfes.org/

What does it actually take to prepare educators to recognize — and prevent — sexual misconduct in schools?

In this episode, host Joelle Casteix talks with Dr. Jeffrey Haverland, professor of teacher education at the University of Dubuque and member of the NC SESAME Board of Directors, about his groundbreaking work integrating ethics and risk-based decision-making into teacher preparation programs.

Dr. Haverland argues that most educator misconduct doesn't start with bad intent — it starts with poor training, blurred boundaries, and a profession that has never given teachers the tools to assess risk in gray-area situations. Drawing on years of grant-funded research, work with Iowa's licensure board, and collaboration with NC SESAME, he shares how scenario-based ethics education is changing how future teachers think — and how that change can protect both students and educators.

Topics include: why ethics training must be live and in-person, how to use "vantage point" thinking in complex situations, the intent vs. impact framework, why ethics education creates a natural barrier to predators, and what every teacher, veteran or new, needs to hear about professional responsibility.

If you work in education — or care about protecting kids in schools — this is a must-listen.

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