Crossing the Tideline

We have Surf journalist, editor, author, father, prostate cancer survivor and now advocate Tim Baker with us on this episode of Crossing the Tideline.

An interesting guest to feature on a shark podcast in that he hasn’t had any particular experiences with GW Sharks themselves, but he has metaphorically patted a few.

The chat dances around what sits underneath our innate fear of Sharks and some deeper questions about confronting mortality.

Plenty of good takeaways in this chat in terms of looking after yourself, lifestyle factors and choices that we have, the importance of family and community and the growth that can come from discomfort, challenge and vulnerability.

I am a big fan of Tims curiosity and awareness to treatments that also extends out to trying things in life and being open to re learn whatever the subject.

This chat was recorded on Jan 15th 2026 at 2pm

Hey everyone, welcome to Crossing The Tideline podcast, Brett Burcher here.

The word “shark” is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences.

Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics and those differences matter when we’re talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share.

These three species have been highlighted because they are the species most commonly associated with serious interactions with humans in areas where sharks and people overlap.

Understanding why that may be, and what makes each species different, is part of understanding the broader picture.

For this series of three episodes, we’re taking a closer look at each of these 3 species individually.

Each episode is essentially a 101 on the species in focus, covering biology and behaviour, population, growth and recovery, shark encounters and attacks, mitigation, what comes next, and some of the bigger questions surrounding each species.

This is the Tiger shark episode and the final episode in this little mini series. The Great white and Bull shark episodes are already in the library.

The aim is to build a better understanding of the individual species, rather than grouping everything together under the word “shark”. It then becomes easier to understand the differences between species and add a bit more context to the information, research and conversations that surround them.

All 3 episodes are recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, a Principal Research Scientist with NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development (Fisheries), based in Coffs Harbour. Paul is a leading marine researcher who has spent years working across shark research and management in NSW, including the NSW Government’s Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and research into post-release fish survival.

If you have any pressing questions from any of the following eps, please comment or DM through as Paul has generously offered to do an ep dedicated to audience questions once the 3 eps have been aired.

These eps were recorded during August and September, 2026.

The word “shark” is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences.

Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics and those differences matter when we’re talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share.

These three species have been highlighted because they are the species most commonly associated with serious interactions with humans in areas where sharks and people overlap.

Understanding why that may be, and what makes each species different, is part of understanding the broader picture.

For this series of three episodes, we’re taking a closer look at each of these 3 species individually.

Each episode is essentially a 101 on the species in focus, covering biology and behaviour, population, growth and recovery, shark encounters and attacks, mitigation, what comes next, and some of the bigger questions surrounding each species.

This is the Bull shark episode and the second episode in this little mini series. The Great white ep is already in the library and the tiger shark ep will drop in the coming weeks.

The aim is to build a better understanding of the individual species, rather than grouping everything together under the word “shark”. It then becomes easier to understand the differences between species and add a bit more context to the information, research and conversations that surround them.

All 3 episodes are recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, a Principal Research Scientist with NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development (Fisheries), based in Coffs Harbour. Paul is a leading marine researcher who has spent years working across shark research and management in NSW, including the NSW Government’s Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and research into post-release fish survival.

If you have any pressing questions from any of the following eps, please comment or DM through as Paul has generously offered to do an ep dedicated to audience questions once the 3 eps have been aired.

These eps were recorded during August and September, 2026.

The word shark is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences. Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics. Those differences matter when we're talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share.

This is a three part mini-series taking a closer look at each species individually, recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, Principal Research Scientist with the NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development, based in Coffs Harbour. Paul has spent years leading shark research and management in NSW, including the government's Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and post-release survival research. Each episode is a 101 on the species in focus.

This is the Great White episode and the first of the three.

We cover population estimates and what stable actually means scientifically, why the current range of 1,500 to 4,200 animals leaves so much room for uncertainty and what the whole genome sequencing work currently underway will tell us for the first time about historical baselines. Paul also walks through the annual east coast migration, how white sharks move from Tasmanian and Victorian waters northward each year, what draws them inshore and what the drone footage from tens of thousands of hours actually shows about their behaviour around humans.

We get into what happens at the scene of a shark bite, how species and size are identified from a bite imprint, whether genetic swabbing could one day identify repeat individuals, and what the data from SMART drumlines is actually telling researchers about movement and behaviour post-capture.

Paul also addresses directly whether there is evidence that Great Whites are becoming more confident near coastlines, what role whale presence plays in their inshore behaviour and why the last few metres of a predatory approach happen entirely blind.

If you have questions after listening to any of the three episodes, Paul has offered to record a dedicated Q and A episode once all three have aired. Send questions through via DM or comment.

Welcome to Crossing the tideline podcast, Brett Burcher here.

In this ep you will Meet Aaron Graham, founder of Proguarding, a company that delivers water safety and medical services to a range of industries. Aaron and his team currently run control Trauma first aid courses across Australia. Ive been to a few of these courses and they are shockingly good. They provide first response style training for life threatening trauma wounds and injuries. They make it so realistic and the info, both the theoretical and practical side of things is so comprehensive, relatable and transferable to all type of situations. The reason I say shockingly good is because after doing the first course, I was quite shocked and disappointed in myself that I did not already have these skills.l. it’s an incredible initiative and Aaron will be chatting us through everything we need to know about these courses.

We will also hear from Paddy James, who facilitates the courses. His experience in emergency situations is so noticeable when you partake in the course. Paddy certainly doesnt fuck around and he gives us some expert tips on what to do if we find ourselves first on scene to a traumatic injury. Quick little note before we roll in, I need to clarify the timeline when Aaron is sharing the story of Barney the shark spotter in the opening minutes of the chat. The numbers are from 14 days of shark spotting, not a years worth. Astounding stat. Not much got past Barney It would seem. This chat was recorded at 3pm on March 5th 2026.

Lucas Townsend is the CEO of Surfing NSW and has been in the rooms where funding decisions are being made. A Northern Beaches local himself, he understands what communities have been living through and has been pushing for surfer representation at a government level through one of the most active periods of shark activity NSW has seen.

Matt Lawson is the man on the ground. He has spent years running shark awareness and education programs up and down the NSW coast and has been in communities in the aftermath of shark incidents to offer support and assistance. He has seen more of this than most.

Together they give a clear picture of what Surfing NSW actually does, which is a lot more than most people realise. Drone operator training, state government advocacy, safety innovation, community education and being present when things go wrong. Everyone who uses the NSW coastline is a beneficiary of their work in some way.

The shark awareness courses run by Proguarding, which feature in a separate episode, have been promoted and rolled out through Surfing NSW and are now a fixture at events across the state.

Two people who genuinely care about surfers, surfing and anyone entering the water. Worth hearing from both.

Lucas Townsend is the CEO of Surfing NSW and has been in the rooms where funding decisions are being made. A Northern Beaches local himself, he understands what communities have been living through and has been pushing for surfer representation at a government level through one of the most active periods of shark activity NSW has seen.

Matt Lawson is the man on the ground. He has spent years running shark awareness and education programs up and down the NSW coast and has been in communities in the aftermath of shark incidents to offer support and assistance. He has seen more of this than most.

Together they give a clear picture of what Surfing NSW actually does, which is a lot more than most people realise. Drone operator training, state government advocacy, safety innovation, community education and being present when things go wrong. Everyone who uses the NSW coastline is a beneficiary of their work in some way.

The shark awareness courses run by Proguarding, which feature in a separate episode, have been promoted and rolled out through Surfing NSW and are now a fixture at events across the state.

Two people who genuinely care about surfers, surfing and anyone entering the water. Worth hearing from both.

Anna Breytenbach is a South African interspecies communicator. That means she communicates with animals, not through behaviour observation or science, but through direct energetic exchange. She has worked with big cats, elephants, wolves and wild predators across the world. She has also communicated with Great White Sharks.

Brett came across Anna on the Telepathy Tapes podcast, then a friend sent him a video of her speaking about shark human interactions at the Byron Bay lighthouse, filmed just after the cluster of Great White incidents there in 2015. The questions it raised wouldn't leave him alone. If we could talk to Great Whites, what would they tell us? Do they sense us? Do they want to harm us? What role do any of us play in this?

This conversation goes to those questions directly. Anna shares what Great Whites have communicated to her about why they approach humans, what they make of us as a species, how shark nets and culling programs register to them, and what they would ask of us if they could. She also talks about species survival syndrome, the orca pair hunting Great Whites off Cape Town, and the Aboriginal increase site practices that parallel so much of what this podcast has been circling.

The conversation also gets personal. Brett opens up about the conflict between wanting to reach a place of peace in the water and the reality of hyper vigilance that trauma leaves behind. Anna's response to that is one of the most useful things said in the series so far.

Dr Riley Elliott is one of the world's leading shark scientists. Before that he was, and still is, a surfer and diver from New Zealand trying to understand the animals he shared the ocean with.

That curiosity has taken him around the world studying Great White Sharks, tracking their movements, producing documentaries and trying to communicate the science to people who actually need it.

In this conversation we get into the migration of Great Whites between New Zealand and Australia, what decades of research is beginning to reveal, and why there are still so many questions that science can't confidently answer. Riley talks about how Great Whites navigate vast stretches of open ocean and why understanding their movements matters for both conservation and public safety.

We also spend a lot of time on mitigation. Drones, electronic deterrents, shark nets, public perception and political decision making. Riley speaks openly about what appears to be working, what isn't, and why he thinks the uncertainty needs to be spoken about more honestly than it currently is.

He also understands what shark incidents do to communities firsthand, having visited Elliston in South Australia and worked around several fatalities in New Zealand.

And in a world first, he tells us what actually had a nibble of Ed Sloane's foot at the 2026 Raglan WCT event.

Between 2011 and 2019, Reunion Island experienced 30 shark attacks, 11 of them fatal. Bull sharks were responsible for 90% of them, on a small French island of 900,000 people in the Indian Ocean, in the most popular tourist and surfing areas on the west coast. For a place that small, it was unfathomable to live through.

Michael Hoarau runs operations for the Shark Safety Unit on Reunion Island and has spent years deep in the data, the fieldwork and the politics of trying to reduce shark encounters in the aftermath of those years. Reunion is regularly referenced internationally as a benchmark for shark risk management.

With Bull shark activity surging along the east coast of Australia this year, particularly in Sydney, it felt like the right time to have this conversation.

Michael walks us through what those years actually felt like on the island, the community divisions that opened up and why nobody could ever agree on what caused the spike in the first place. He explains what the French government put in place, including a permanent ban on surfing and swimming outside the lagoon, the world's first large scale exclusion net trials, and a shark control program using smart drum lines that has now run for 12 years.

The numbers are striking. In 2016 alone, 52 bull sharks were caught on the drum lines in targeted areas. That same effort now yields an average of four or five bull sharks a year. There has not been a single shark attack on Reunion Island since May 2019.

The back half of the conversation goes deep on the balance between lethal and non lethal measures, what the shark control program has actually taught them about bull shark behaviour and why Michael says the answer is never one thing.