Tammie Lister joins Luke and Jonathan to discuss vibe coding, product thinking, and breaking free from a designer typecast into a reputation for product engineering. They also discuss the importance and relevance of WordPress, themes, and cricket.

Luke and Jonathan start talking immediately after the previous episode and decide to record again. Luke geeks out about the Notes feature, his experiments with it, and subsequent contribution attempt. Jonathan enjoys the show.

Luke and Jonathan talk through the WordPress 6.9 update and their highlights. Jonathan attempts to make a point about comparing WordPress updates to other ecosystems and Luke isn’t having it.

Jonathan and Luke discuss Matt’s keynote and the reversal in their expectations going into the event. They share their surprise at a particular data point and Luke offers a few highlights from his recent experience at Enqueue in Sydney.

Luke and Jonathan are back from an unplanned break and pick up with Luke’s growing interest in the FAIR project. Jonathan asks questions about how things work and expresses his present, yet softening cynicism. They also talk about the Internet Archive’s new project with Automattic.

Jonathan and Luke discuss the copying of plugins and the history of doing so in the WordPress ecosystem. Jonathan realizes what’s been bothering him about it all and Luke points out the difference between stated and practiced values. They also start to talk AI browsers.

Luke and Jonathan discuss WooCommerce and the opportunities (and challenges) for newcomers like FluentCart. Luke shares the four things he thinks an ecommerce product needs and Jonathan enjoys Luke’s unexpected breakthrough.

FAIR 1.0 has been released! Jonathan and Luke discuss the implications of the project, modifying the WordPress admin’s “featured plugins”, and the impact of a federated ecosystem. Luke thinks Jonathan failed the challenge.

Jonathan and Luke speak with Matt. Yep, that Matt. They talk about jazz, blogging, photography, and the infuriating, heartbreaking, grey-hair-making drama that’s engulfed the WordPress community over the last year.

Jonathan and Luke discuss their nervousness going in to their recording with Matt Mullenweg. They share the preparation process, the questions they wrestled with, the approach they decided to take, and how the experience went.