In this episode, Jonny sits down with theologian and pastor Greg Boyd to explore one of the most transformative ideas in contemporary theology: what if God truly looks like Jesus—crucified?

Together, they trace Greg’s journey from academic theology into pastoral ministry, and into a lifetime of wrestling with Scripture, violence, and the character of God. The conversation centers on what Greg calls a “cruciform hermeneutic”—reading the entire Bible through the lens of the cross—and how that reshapes everything from troubling Old Testament passages to the nature of the kingdom of God.

They also dive into:

• Why the cross is the “center of the center” of Christian faith
• How to read difficult or violent biblical texts without dismissing Scripture
• What a cross-shaped (cruciform) kingdom actually looks like in everyday life
• Rethinking atonement beyond punishment toward restoration and healing
• How the church can embody a nonviolent, self-giving love in a fractured world