Cruciform Conversations

(To stay up to date on the podcast, you can subscribe here on Substack or find us over on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. Please subscribe and leave a review!)

In this episode of Cruciform Conversations (in partnership with Future of Faith), I talk to theologian Dr. Vincent Bacote about what has given rise to the war on empathy, he implications of empathy in political and social discourse, the diverse voices within the Black Evangelical community, and what he learned making the documentary Black+Evangelical.

Watch the film here

Dr. Bacote is a Professor of Theology and the Director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College in Wheaton, IL.

He is the author of Reckoning with Race and Performing the Good News: In Search of a Better Evangelical Theology (2020), The Political Disciple: A Theology of Public Life (2015), The Spirit in Public Theology: Appropriating the Legacy of Abraham Kuyper (2005), and has contributed to books including On Kuyper (2013), Aliens in the Promised Land (2013), Keep Your Head Up (2012) and Prophetic Evangelicals(2012).

He is a regular columnist for Comment Magazine and contributes to other magazines, including Books and Culture, Christianity Today, Think Christian and re:generation quarterly, and journals such as Christian Scholars Review, Urban Mission and the Journal for Christian Theological Research.

He is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Christian Ethics.

(Interested in getting an “If Empathy is a Sin, Sin Boldy” hat?)

(To stay up to date on the podcast, you can subscribe here on Substack or find us over on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. Please subscribe and leave a review!)

What we eventually found, and what we share in this book, is that spiritual pathways are connected to our relational and neural pathways, and these are shaped by our attachment relationships. ……..These four different attachment strategies - which we call the Jungle of Anxiety, the Desert of Avoidance, the War Zone of Chaos, and the Pasture of Joy and Peace - are why one-size-fits-all approaches to spiritual formation don’t work.

In this episode of the Future of Faith podcast, Dr. Geoff Holsclaw and I explore the intersection of attachment theory and spiritual formation. Highlighting Geoff and his wife Cyd’s new book Landscapes of the Soul, we discuss how understanding attachment can enhance one’s relationship with God and foster community connections. The conversation examines the importance of listening, attunement, and the challenges faced by younger generations in a digital world that is becoming increasingly disembodied. Practical strategies for cultivating emotional intelligence and fostering secure attachments within faith communities are also shared, emphasizing the importance of gratitude and integrating emotional practices.

We also highlight the free Attaching to God Online Summit! (Details below)

Dr. Geoff Holsclaw Bio

Dr. Geoff Holsclaw is an author of multiple books, is a visiting professor of theology at Western Theological Seminary where he and Cyd co-lead a Doctor of Ministry program, co-host of the Attaching to God podcast.

Geoff and his wife Cyd founded the Center for Embodied Faith, which is working to anchor the soul through attachment-based, neuroscience-informed, and Jesus-centered tools for discipleship and spiritual formation.

With Cyd Holsclaw, Geoff is the co-author of the new book Landscapes of the Soul: How science and spirituality of attachment can move you into confident faith, courage, and connection

Check out the Center for Embodied Faith’s Free Summit!

Register here

Links -

The Center for Embodied Faith

Landscapes of the Soul: How the Science and Spirituality of Attachment Can Move You into Confident Faith, Courage, and Connection

Summary

In this crossover episode of Cruciform Conversations and the Future of Faith podcast, host Greg Arthur engages with Mako Nagasawa, exploring themes of faith, community, and restorative justice. Mako shares his journey from a background in technology and ministry to founding the Anastasis Center, which focuses on teaching restorative justice and healing through a Christian lens. The conversation delves into the importance of listening to God and others, the role of emotions in understanding God's love, and the upcoming Constant Connection conference aimed at fostering a deeper relationship with God. Mako emphasizes the need for community practices that embody the gospel and invites listeners to explore resources on early Christian theology to enrich their faith journey.

I am excited to share episode 1 of the new podcast, Cruciform Conversations. At the beginning of the podcast, I offer some insight into the podcast transition, the focus of the coming season, and my exciting partnership with Future of Faith!

This fall, many of the podcast episodes will be cross-branded and produced in partnership with my friends at Future of Faith. I am hosting the second season of their podcast, introducing their audience to new voices and exploring the theme of sacred listening. Future of Faith has done some amazing research and produced incredible tools to help the next generation explore their faith and build meaningful relationships through sacred listening. Throughout this season of the podcast, we are going to put those tools into practice with great conversations, lots of listening, and a dive into how listening can impact our faith and our faith communities. To stay up to date on the podcast, you can subscribe here on Substack or find us over on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. This first episode is with my friend Mako Nagasawa. Mako and I explore themes of faith, community, and restorative justice. Mako shares his journey from a background in technology and ministry to founding the The Anástasis Center, which focuses on teaching restorative justice and healing through a Christian lens. The conversation explores the importance of listening to God and others, the role of emotions in understanding God's love, and the upcoming Constant Connection conference, which aims to foster a deeper relationship with God. Mako emphasizes the need for community practices that embody the gospel and invites listeners to explore resources on early Christian theology to enrich their faith journey.

Mako Nagasawa Bio

Mako Nagasawa is the founder and executive director of The Anástasis Center, a center for Christian Education and Ministry, committed to proclaiming the restorative justice of God, the healing atonement of Jesus. Mako lives with his family in Dorchester, MA, as part of an intentional community house. Before launching The Anastasis Center, Mako served with Intervarsity Christian Fellowship for 13 years and has degrees from Stanford University and Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Seminary.

Join Mako and me at the Constant Connection Conference next week in Philadelphia, PA.

https://www.anastasiscenter.org/conference-2025

(Note - this post was created when I served as VP of Ideos Institute, which is now the Fuller Center for Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation)

“Money. Mammon. Riches. All names for the same rival god, the service of whom the Scriptures call greed. Mammon lies at the root of lynching, of racial violence, of racial capitalism, and ultimately of the very concept of race itself. The demonic cycle of self-interest cannot be broken personally, communally, or cosmically without reckoning with greed. Those who are best positioned to spearhead this reckoning are those who serve the God of the Scriptures.”

In this conversation, Ideos VP Greg Arthur and Dr. Malcolm Foley discuss his book, The Anti-Greed Gospel, and explore themes of peacemaking, unity, and the divisions within the American church. Malcolm reflects on the historical context of racial justice, greed, and the church's role in addressing economic exploitation. The conversation emphasizes the importance of love as a material commitment to one another and the need for the church to build multi-ethnic congregations that reflect the kingdom of God.

(This conversation is a helpful follow-up to an earlier conversation with Matt Tebbe about Mammon and its role in creating divisions within the church)

Episode Takeaways

* Dr. Foley emphasizes the importance of understanding historical realities that impact current church conflicts.

* He shares personal experiences as the only black teaching elder in a predominantly white church.

* Cultural conflicts require discernment between adaptation and assimilation.

* Greed is identified as a primal sin that leads to societal divisions.

* The church must prioritize material love and community support for the needy.

* Historical movements for racial justice often overlooked economic justice.

* The church is called to be an invitation to the world, not a judgment on it.

* Building multi-ethnic congregations is a challenging but necessary task.

* The path of the Christian is inherently linked to the path of the cross.

* The pursuit of money and political power dilutes the church's witness.

(Note - this post was created when I served as VP of Ideos Institute, which is now the Fuller Center for Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation)

Leviathan often recruits good people to accomplish its evil mission by presenting itself as a godly ally. In America this can be seen when influential leaders co-opt Christian rhetoric and icons, claiming to be advocates for Christian values to gain money and power. Our mission field is caught in a deceptive trap laid by an enemy at work since the beginning of time. - Disarming Leviathan p.43

In this conversation, Ideos VP Greg Arthur and Pastor Caleb Campbell explore the complexities of Christian nationalism, its impact on the church, and approaches to peacebuilding and unity. They discuss the origins of Christian nationalism, its ideological, tribal, and spiritual dimensions, and its influence on the behavior of Christians. The conversation also addresses the narrative of persecution within American evangelicalism and the need for a more nuanced understanding of suffering and community engagement. Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of embodying love and humility in interactions with those caught up in nationalist movements, advocating for a missional approach to reach and transform hearts.

Discover Caleb’s Work

J29 Coalition

Disarming Leviathan

Episode Takeaways

* Christian nationalism is a political ideology, tribal identity, and spiritual idolatry.

* The church must engage with Christian nationalists as missionaries, not adversaries.

* Persecution narratives in American evangelicalism often misinterpret discomfort as persecution.

* A healthy understanding of lament and grief is lacking in American evangelical culture.

* Patriotism should not supersede the call to love and serve others.

* The Leviathan metaphor illustrates the predatory nature of evil and its seductive power.

* Communities should act as embassies of reconciliation, embodying the way of Jesus.

* Disarming Leviathan involves creating spaces of safety, belonging, and purpose.

* The church's role is to represent those who suffer under unjust power.

* Engagement with those who hold different views should be rooted in love and humility.

(Note - this post was created when I served as VP of Ideos Institute, which is now the Fuller Center for Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation)

In this conversation, Greg Arthur and Dr. Josh Packard explore the concept of sacred listening and its profound impact on faith formation, particularly among youth. They discuss the importance of relationships, empathy, and cultural competence in ministry, as well as the challenges faced in engaging with younger generations. Dr. Packard shares research findings that highlight the significance of listening in spiritual growth and the role of technology in communication. The discussion also covers practical strategies for effective listening and building trust within faith communities, emphasizing the need for a shift in ministry approaches to foster deeper connections and understanding.

Episode Takeaways

* Listening is crucial in shaping faith experiences.

* Empathy and cultural competence enhance relational ministry.

* Technology can facilitate communication but should be used thoughtfully.

* Building trust is essential for effective ministry.

* Sacred listening involves understanding and following up on individuals' stories.

* Youth today feel unheard, making listening even more vital.

* Ministry should focus on relationships over transactional interactions.

* Active listening is not the only form of effective listening.

* Relational ministry can be scaled with proper systems in place.

* Theological training should include listening skills.

Connect with Future of Faith

Download the Sacred Listening Guide for The (Re)union Project

(Note - this post was created when I served as VP of Ideos Institute, which is now the Fuller Center for Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation)

“In the eagerness to find a way - the way- to be faithful amid a sinful society, many Christians have turned to sentimental visions of families past. But the good news of God’s kingdom won’t allow us to wrap ourselves in the warm blanket of maudlin idealism. First, because such visions are embedded in socioeconomic circumstances that elude most families today. But second, and perhaps more importantly, because the past is not where Christians live. Christ is Lord today.”

A “focus on the family” has been a significant part of the theological and political life of the evangelical church of the past 50 years. Woven into church growth strategies, legislative agendas, a hermeneutic for scripture, and its vision for living out the mission of God, the nuclear family is a dominant focus for the evangelical church. In the past 25 years, however, this focus has consistently conflicted with the changing nature of family in our world. In light of the changing nature of family, what does a household of faith look like in 2025? In this conversation with Dr. Emily Hunter McGowin, we discuss a rich theology of family.

Dr. McGowin, in her book Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God, lays out a clear and powerful biblical theology of family and its place in the kingdom of God. She helps us examine our assumptions about family, how we engage with scripture, and how we think about families and the mission of God in our current cultural moment. This book and our conversation point to vital areas of concern and focus for The (Re)union Project. It is hard to imagine peace building and unity within the church until we develop and live into a better kingdom theology of family.

Connect with Dr. McGowin and her work: Her websiteHouseholds of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God

Quivering Families: The Quiverfull Movement and Evangelical Theology of Families

God and Wonder: Theology, Imagination and the Arts

In this conversation, Greg Arthur speaks with Dr. Emily Hunter McGowan about her book 'Households of Faith' and the complexities of family dynamics within a theological context. They explore the historical and cultural constructs of family, particularly the nuclear family, and how these ideas have been shaped by societal changes. Dr. McGowan emphasizes the need to understand family through a biblical lens, particularly through the teachings of Jesus and the writings of Paul, which challenge traditional notions of family. The discussion also touches on the role of families in embodying the kingdom of God and the importance of reconciliation and healing within family structures.

Episode Takeaways

• The nuclear family is a modern construct, not a biblical norm.
• Families have historically been political and economic institutions.
• Jesus redefined family beyond biological ties.
• Paul's writings reflect the norms of his time but also subvert them.
• The kingdom of God challenges traditional family structures.
• Family dynamics are influenced by cultural and economic factors.
• Practicing reconciliation within families is essential for healing.
• Families can embody the values of the kingdom of God.
• Mundane acts of faithfulness can subvert empire.
• Hope and healing are possible in broken family systems.

(Note - this post was created when I served as VP of Ideos Institute, which is now the Fuller Center for Peacebuilding and Conflict Transformation)

“Sometimes I feel like a failure for this one reason: I didn’t adequately prepare people for the turmoil of 2020. Specifically, I didn’t adequately cultivate an allegiance to Jesus, his life, and his words that surpassed other traditional and cultural allegiances.”

What happens when you suddenly awaken to your complicity in leading congregations to worship cultural and political idols? That is the story bravely told by Jeff Mikels in the book Evangelical Idolatry: How Pastors Like Me Have Failed the People of God. Diving into how a specific evangelical subculture shaped him to avoid political engagement, remain segregated from the experiences and wisdom of vast parts of the church, and develop a propensity for enemy-making, Jeff tells his own story of awakening and transformation, one that cost him his church.

The (Re)union Project is a movement for people like Jeff, who are working to engage with the broader church community so that we can learn from one another and better embody the good news of the kingdom. In this episode of In Conversation With…, we talk with Jeff Mikels about his journey, his learning, and how God has been at work widening and deepening his gospel. We discuss our reading and interpretation of the Bible, being shaped by culture, getting lost in theological debates, and how to begin building bridges and cultivating peace across cultural boundaries. For those who have found themselves in Christian communities isolated and closed off from the larger church, you will find encouragement, challenge, and hopefulness in Jeff’s candor.