Curiosity ⇔ Entangled

Where does the mind end, and how much of who we are is made through our relationships with the world around us?

Cognitive archaeologist Lambros Malafouris joins philosopher Shaun Gallagher to explore a view of the mind that reaches beyond the brain. Drawing on Malafouris's Material Engagement Theory and Gallagher's work on embodied and enactive cognition, they examine how thinking emerges through the ongoing relationship between brain, body, other people, objects, technologies, and the environments we inhabit.

Their conversation explores the four E's of cognition—embodied, embedded, extended, and enactive—why objects and materials may participate in human agency, the relationship between pottery and the potter who shapes it, how our brains and environments change together, and how technologies become part of the processes that make us who we are. From there, they turn to AI and ask what happens when technologies change faster than we can understand their effects on us: how digital systems reshape habits and institutions, what skills may disappear along the way, and whether changing our everyday practices may matter as much as changing the rules that govern technology.

Three core questions:

1. Does cognition happen inside the brain, or emerge through relationships between brain, body, other people, and the material world?

2. If tools and technologies help shape our agency, habits, and sense of self, what happens when those technologies change?

3. As AI becomes embedded in everyday life and institutions, how do we preserve the embodied practices and ways of thinking we still value?

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GUESTS

Lambros Malafouris - Cognitive & Anthropological Archaeologist
Professor of Cognitive & Anthropological Archaeology, University of Oxford
Tutorial Fellow in Archaeology and Anthropology, Hertford College
Developer of Material Engagement Theory and author of People Are STRANGE: Material Engagement and the Creation of Self-Consciousness
https://www.hertford.ox.ac.uk/staff/lambros-malafouris/
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262553902/people-are-strange/

Shaun Gallagher - Philosopher & Cognitive Scientist
Lillian and Morrie Moss Professor of Philosophy, University of Memphis
Known for his work on embodied cognition, phenomenology, agency, intersubjectivity, and the Pattern Theory of Self
https://www.memphis.edu/philosophy/people/
https://digitalcommons.memphis.edu/facpubs/6153/

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Chapters

00:00 Meet Lambros Malafouris and Shaun Gallagher
02:38 The four E's: embodied, embedded, extended, and enactive cognition
09:05 Material Engagement Theory: how things shape the mind
16:34 What scientific models leave out
19:14 The situated person and the relational mind
23:35 Where does agency actually live?
28:44 Agency, body ownership, and the minimal self
30:25 The potter, the clay, and agency in the relationship
35:23 STRANGE, metaplasticity, and how humans become
44:03 What London taxi drivers reveal about brains and technology
46:05 Three kinds of technological transparency
49:34 What are our technologies doing to us?
50:55 AI, human becoming, and the technologies we choose
56:00 The socially extended mind and how institutions shape us
59:26 When digital technologies become the structure of institutions
1:03:04 Habits, practices, and another way to think about change
1:09:50 What embodied skills could we lose in the age of AI?
1:12:19 From pottery to politics: where the conversation leads

What is life, and how much say do we have in shaping what comes next?

Astrobiologist and theoretical physicist Sara Imari Walker joins artist and futurist Amy Karle to explore the questions they each reach from opposite directions: what life is, how it begins, and how we would recognize it somewhere else. Drawing on Walker's search for the physics and possible laws of life and Karle's art made with the tools of frontier science and biotechnology, they find where a scientist's attempt to see life differently meets an artist's attempt to help us feel possibilities we do not yet have language for.

Their conversation explores time and how differently each of us lives it, possibility versus probability, creativity as a force that shapes the world, the traces we leave for the future, bioprinting and what we become when we remake the body, how a work changes as different cultures receive it, and the question of what part we play in the universe's ongoing creativity.

Three core questions:

1. What does it mean to be alive, and how would we recognize life radically unlike our own?

2. Can genuinely new possibilities emerge, or is the future fundamentally constrained by the past and by probability?

3. Is the universe itself creative, and what role do life, intelligence, and human agency play in that creative process?

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GUESTS

Sara Imari Walker - Astrobiologist & Theoretical Physicist

Professor and Deputy Director, Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Arizona State University

Author of Life as No One Knows It and co-developer of Assembly Theory

https://search.asu.edu/profile/1731899

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...

Amy Karle - Artist, Bioartist & Futurist

Known for Regenerative Reliquary and The Heart of Evolution

Exhibited at Ars Electronica, the Centre Pompidou, and the Mori Art Museum

https://www.amykarle.com

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Chapters

00:00 Meet Sara Imari Walker and Amy Karle

01:14 What does it mean to be alive?

04:41 The futures cone, and how much we shape what comes

07:33 Possibility, probability, and the outliers that surprise us

10:40 Living out of the past, or starting from a blank slate

16:28 Echoes from the Valley of Existence: leaving DNA on the Moon

23:04 Our very different relationships to time

42:07 Powers of Ten, and seeing clearly in the AI age

47:48 What would alien life be, and how would we know it?

58:06 Amy's beginning, and the fragility of life

1:04:37 The Heart of Evolution, and who we become when we remake the body

1:08:40 Scary and beautiful: how cultures complete the work

1:18:15 Perception, and our role in the universe's creativity

What can Freud still teach us about the brain, consciousness, and mental health?Neuropsychologist and psychoanalyst Mark Solms joins theoretical neuroscientist Karl Friston to explore the connections between Freud’s ideas and modern neuroscience. Using Solms’s book The Only Cure as a starting point, they discuss how our experiences shape the brain’s understanding of the world—and why changing that understanding may be central to mental healing.Their conversation explores talking therapy, psychedelics, consciousness, memory, childhood development, the unconscious mind, curiosity, and the idea that our actions are guided by attempts to meet our needs and reduce uncertainty.———GUESTSMark Solms - Neuropsychologist, Psychoanalyst & AuthorProfessor, Neuroscience Institute, University of Cape TownAuthor of The Only Cure and The Hidden Springhttps://neuroscience.uct.ac.za/contac...https://www.simonandschuster.com/auth...Karl Friston - Theoretical Neuroscientist & PsychiatristProfessor of Imaging Neuroscience, University College LondonKnown for the Free Energy Principle and Active Inferencehttps://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/2747-karl-...https://www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~karl/———Chapters00:00 Meet Mark Solms and Karl Friston02:23 How a psychoanalyst and a neuroscientist joined forces06:12 Freud, Feynman, and a physics of the mind10:23 A 29-year quest to translate Freud, and a new book18:50 Does therapy treat causes while medication treats symptoms?30:49 Where our sense of self and our feelings come from43:27 The hidden design of the mind that Freud could only imagine49:10 Many kinds of memory, and the depth of the mind1:02:20 The unconscious: how much of us runs on autopilot1:15:08 Why our earliest years shape us, even when we cannot recall them1:25:59 "All thinking is wishful thinking"1:32:14 From Freud to Feynman to Friston

This episode bridges speculative design, anthropology, ecological art, education, environmental ethics, material culture, and futures thinking to ask: how can imagination become a practical tool for building more open, connected, and livable worlds?Anab Jain, co-founder and creative director of Superflux and professor of Design Investigations at the University of Applied Arts Vienna, joins Johns Hopkins anthropologist Anand Pandian, author of Something Between Us and A Possible Anthropology, for a Curiosity Entangled conversation about speculative futures, ecological imagination, design, anthropology, and the more-than-human world. Together, they discuss how immersive experiences can make alternative futures tangible, why boredom and open-mindedness matter, and how art and design can create space for people to form their own relationships with possible worlds.They also explore authoritarianism and the political danger of imagination, Superflux’s future-home installations, the Jones Falls 2076 project in Baltimore, buried urban rivers, the afterlives of discarded objects, and the idea of the “Craftocene”—using craft, repair, and material experimentation to reverse the logic of consumption. Their conversation moves through abandoned vape batteries, aluminum cans, speculative artifacts, future museums, ecological education, community-building, hope, and the challenge of remaining creatively engaged when the future feels overwhelming.⸻TIMESTAMPS00:00:31 - Introductions: speculative design, anthropology, and shared inspiration00:04:35 - Possibility as embodied experience, not just an idea00:08:12 - Boredom, Walter Benjamin, and minds allowed to wander00:12:51 - Open-mindedness, jugaad, and wisdom from rural fieldwork00:23:03 - A lived 2050 apartment and imagination as slow activism00:26:16 - Jones Falls 2076: dreaming a buried river back to life00:34:10 - Telling terrible stories beautifully: loss and the Craftocene00:38:44 - Foraged vapes, burned cans, and reversing supply chains00:44:20 - The Future of Here: a culture built from what we discard00:48:30 - Museums of the future and objects that catch stories01:01:10 - Community, collective organizing, and sustaining hope01:07:46 - Getting unstuck: cognitive precarity and hope as making⸻GUESTSAnab Jain - Designer, Futurist & EducatorCo-Founder and Director, Superflux (London)Professor of Design Investigations, University of Applied Arts Viennahttps://superflux.in/https://superflux.in/index.php/team/a...Anand Pandian - Anthropologist, Professor & AuthorProfessor of Anthropology, Johns Hopkins UniversityAuthor of A Possible Anthropology and Reel Worldhttps://anand.studio/https://anthropology.jhu.edu/director...⸻RELATED TOPICSSpeculative design, anthropology, ecological design, ecological imagination, experiential futures, futures thinking, more-than-human world, environmental ethics, open-mindedness, authoritarianism, immersive installations, climate change, storytelling, boredom, material culture, repair, waste, consumerism, Craftocene, Jones Falls 2076, buried rivers, urban ecology, discarded objects, future museums, speculative anthropology, design education, radical pedagogy, community, hope, art and science, longform conversation⸻FOLLOW ACCELERATOR MEDIATwitter/X: https://x.com/xceleratormediaInstagram:   / xcelerator.medialinkedin:     / accelerator-media-orgwebsite:   https://acceleratormedia.org⸻ABOUT CURIOSITY ENTANGLEDCuriosity Entangled pairs distinguished thinkers from different disciplines for unscripted conversations about consciousness, science, technology, and humanity’s long-term future. Hosted by Accelerator Media, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to public engagement with science and long-term thinking.

Geology is usually taught through rocks, minerals, mountains, and deep time. But structural geologist Marcia Bjornerud and sound artist Olivia Block show how Earth science also connects to sound, music, memory, climate change, architecture, and the way humans understand the planet.

Marcia Bjornerud, professor of geosciences at Lawrence University and author of Timefulness and Turning to Stone, joins composer and sound artist Olivia Block for a Curiosity Entangled conversation about geology, sound art, deep time, and the more-than-human world. Together, they explore how rocks record Earth’s history, how mountains and continents move over immense timescales, and why listening can become a powerful way to think about geological change.

They also discuss the Great Unconformity, Snowball Earth, the Great Oxygenation Event, banded iron formations, slow earthquakes, seismology, quarry landscapes, architectural stone, and the challenge of communicating Earth history to a human audience. The conversation connects science and art through Olivia’s sound installations and Marcia’s writing, while also touching on climate change, AI, scientific humility, and the importance of seeing Earth as an active, dynamic system rather than a passive background to human life.

This episode bridges geology, sound art, Earth history, climate science, music, architecture, and deep time to ask: how can science and art help us better understand the planet we live on?

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TIMESTAMPS

00:00:31 - Introductions: Sound art, structural geology, and sonic connections
00:01:05 - Weaving Earth history with memoir
00:03:04 - Geological time, sound, and human perception
00:09:28 - Rocks as animate, responsive, and more-than-human
00:14:37 - The Great Unconformity and missing time in the geologic record
00:15:43 - Snowball Earth and ancient climate shifts
00:19:19 - The Great Oxygenation Event and how life transformed the atmosphere
00:27:18 - Climate urgency, grief, and moving beyond human-centered thinking

00:28:29 - AI, vulnerability, capitalism, and empathy for the nonhuman world
00:34:42 - Selecting rocks for a sound art installation
00:40:30 - Indiana limestone, architecture, and sound
00:46:27 - Slow earthquakes and finding signals in noise
00:58:52 - Scientific humility, jazz, and the limits of disciplinary boundaries

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GUESTS

Marcia Bjornerud - Structural Geologist, Professor & AuthorProfessor of Geosciences, Lawrence UniversityAuthor of Timefulness and Turning to Stonehttps://lawrence.edu/people/marcia-bjornerud-walter-schober-professor-of-environmental-studies-and-professor-of-geosciences

Olivia Block - Composer & Sound ArtistMultichannel Installation ArtistComposer working across music, sound, electronics, and geological themeshttps://oliviablock.net/ https://instagram.com/oliviablocksound/https://oliviablock.bandcamp.com/

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RELATED TOPICS

Geology, Earth science, sound art, deep time, structural geology, rocks, Earth history, climate change, Snowball Earth, Great Unconformity, Great Oxygenation Event, banded iron formations, slow earthquakes, seismology, music, sound installation, architecture, limestone, quarries, science communication, art and science, AI, scientific humility, more-than-human world, longform conversation

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ABOUT CURIOSITY ENTANGLED

Curiosity Entangled pairs distinguished thinkers from different disciplines for unscripted conversations about consciousness, science, technology, and humanity’s long-term future. Hosted by Accelerator Media, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to public engagement with science and long-term thinking.

#Geology #EarthScience #MarciaBjornerud #OliviaBlock #SoundArt #DeepTime #ClimateChange #Seismology #Rocks #ScienceCommunication #ArtAndScience #LongformPodcast #CuriosityEntangled

Chess is often framed as pure strategy, competition, and calculation. But Jennifer Shahade and Agustín Fuentes reveal why the game also opens up deeper questions about bodies, culture, gender, intelligence, creativity, AI, and human variation.

Jennifer Shahade, two-time U.S. Women’s Chess Champion, author, and poker player, joins biological anthropologist Agustín Fuentes for a wide-ranging Curiosity Entangled conversation about what chess teaches us about the mind, and what it exposes about our assumptions. Together, they explore why claims about “male” and “female” brains fail to explain excellence in chess, how culture shapes opportunity and expectation, why representation matters for young players, and how simplistic ideas about IQ, aggression, and ability continue to circulate online.

They also discuss AI in chess and beyond, including when computational tools help people learn, when they flatten creativity, and why being wrong is still essential to human thinking. The conversation moves from chess rankings and gender bias to trans inclusion, education, access, variation, and the importance of creating more open pathways for young people to discover what they are capable of.

This episode bridges chess, anthropology, cognition, gender, AI, and culture to ask a bigger question: what do our games reveal about being human?

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TIMESTAMPS

00:00:31 - Introductions: Anthropology, chess, poker, and gender
00:01:47 - Chess as nonstop mental action, stress, and emotion
00:03:13 - Why chess is often framed as warfare and competition
00:04:55 - Why sex and gender do not determine chess ability
00:08:00 - How chess rankings work
00:09:00 - Skill development, training, and different paths to mastery
00:12:00 - Aggression, playing style, and gendered expectations
00:15:00 - The “greater male variability” argument and why it fails
00:18:00 - IQ claims, cognition, and misinformation online
00:27:00 - Representation, role models, and opening possibilities for kids
00:30:00 - AI, bias, labeling, and what algorithms reproduce
00:42:00 - Creativity, unpredictability, and why variation matters

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GUESTS

Jennifer Shahade - Chess Champion, Author & Poker Player
Two-Time U.S. Women’s Chess Champion
Author of Chess Queens and Thinking Sideways

Agustín Fuentes - Professor of Anthropology, Princeton University
Biological Anthropologist
Author of Sex Is a Spectrum and The Creative Spark

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RELATED TOPICS

Chess, gender, cognition, anthropology, poker, AI, creativity, intelligence, human variation, education, representation, bias, chess culture, women in chess, trans inclusion, learning, skill development, algorithms, human behavior, science, longform conversation

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⸻

ABOUT CURIOSITY ENTANGLED

Curiosity Entangled pairs distinguished thinkers from different disciplines for unscripted conversations about consciousness, science, technology, and humanity’s long-term future. Hosted by Accelerator Media, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to public engagement with science and long-term thinking.

#Chess #JenniferShahade #AgustinFuentes #Anthropology #Gender #AI #Cognition #Poker #WomenInChess #Science #LongformPodcast #CuriosityEntangled

In this Curiosity Entangled conversation, sonic artist and immersive ecology designer Mileece and philosopher of plant intelligence Paco Calvo explore plant sentience, sound, consciousness, ecology, and the limits of human perception.

Mileece has spent decades using sound, technology, and immersive ecological design to help people experience their living relationship with plants and natural systems. Paco Calvo, professor of philosophy of science at the University of Murcia and author of Planta Sapiens, studies plant intelligence, behavior, and the assumptions that shape how science understands non-animal life.

Together, they discuss plant anesthesia, sonic art, scientific dogma, anthropocentrism, panpsychism, pollination, relational ecology, and what it means to think of life itself as minded.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00:07 – Mileece opens with microtubules, time crystals, and a playful path into big questions
00:00:27 – Paco Calvo asks how art, technology, and ecology connect in Mileece’s work
00:02:42 – Mileece on art as an entry point for questions science cannot yet formalize
00:04:10 – Paco on why art and science should move in both directions
00:06:03 – Mileece on the responsibility of artists in this moment on Earth
00:07:02 – Using technology to facilitate people’s innate relationship with nature
00:08:07 – Why art allowed Mileece to discuss plant consciousness before science was ready
00:10:08 – Paco on plant anesthesia and the power of outsider questions
00:13:00 – What does it mean for a plant to come out of anesthesia?
00:15:09 – Mileece on watching insects, bumblebees, and the limits of human dogma
00:16:31 – Externalities, economics, and the danger of ignoring contextual reality
00:19:39 – Robotic Buddhist monks, anthropomorphism, and the Dalai Lama’s view on plant sentience
00:24:48 – Paco on human bias beyond Western science
00:26:37 – Time scales, empathy, and learning to meet other beings on their own terms
00:29:01 – Mileece explains why she works with sound and plants
00:31:16 – Relational ecology and the false separation between humans and nature
00:32:31 – “Every inhalation we take is the exhalation of plants”
00:34:11 – Sound as a bridge to the hidden living relationships in ecology
00:36:29 – Paco on relational thinking, pollinators, flowers, and coevolution
00:39:08 – Why the whole plant can be understood as a sensory surface
00:40:04 – Why science loses the relationship when it freezes life into snapshots
00:43:08 – Sentience, decision-making, and unconscious processes inside living cells
00:44:02 – Paco’s view that where there is life, there is mind
00:45:06 – Neurocentrism, carbon-centrism, and the slippery slope toward panpsychism
00:47:35 – Mileece on emergence, coherence, and life as a relational state
00:51:02 – Mycorrhizal networks and the question of who gets to be the “main character”
00:55:39 – Communicating with radically different forms of life
00:57:14 – Mileece on wanting to communicate with plants and building sonification systems
01:00:54 – Mileece reflects on criticism, skepticism, and proving the legitimacy of the question

GUESTS

Mileece – Sonic Artist, Immersive Ecology Designer, and Biophilic Energy Ambassador
Paco Calvo – Professor of Philosophy of Science, University of Murcia; Author of Planta Sapiens

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ABOUT CURIOSITY ENTANGLED
Curiosity Entangled pairs distinguished thinkers from different disciplines for unscripted conversations about science, technology, philosophy, and humanity’s long-term future. Produced by Accelerator Media, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to thoughtful educational media and long-term thinking.

#PlantIntelligence #PlantSentience #Mileece #PacoCalvo #PlantaSapiens #SonicArt #Consciousness #Ecology #CuriosityEntangled

What if animal sounds are not just signals, but music, performance, and meaning?In this wide-ranging conversation, philosopher and musician David Rothenberg and animal cognition researcher and writer Justin Gregg explore the strange borderlands between music, language, animal communication, play, science, and imagination. Moving from birdsong and whale music to dolphins, narwhals, emotional support alligators, escaped zoo animals, and improv comedy, they ask what happens when we stop treating animals as biological machines and start listening to them as expressive beings.David Rothenberg, professor of philosophy and music at the New Jersey Institute of Technology, has spent decades making music with birds, whales, insects, and other species while writing about the philosophical and scientific meaning of animal sound. Justin Gregg, author of If Nietzsche Were a Narwhal and Humanish, studies animal minds, dolphin cognition, and the ways humans project meaning onto other creatures. Together, they bring music, science, philosophy, humor, and curiosity into a lively conversation about what animals know, what humans imagine, and why the boundary between the two is never as clean as we think.They discuss why birds sing, whether animal sounds can be understood as music, how scientists study communication without reducing it to simple function, and why anthropomorphism is not always the mistake it is assumed to be. The conversation opens into stories of beluga whales, military dolphins, narwhals, prairie dogs, koalas, lyrebirds, emotional support alligators, animal escape stories, and the deep human need to find kinship with other beings.TIMESTAMPS00:00:57 – David Rothenberg on music, philosophy, and his unconventional academic path00:04:35 – Justin Gregg on sociolinguistics, dolphins, and entering animal cognition from the humanities00:05:20 – Scott McVay, John Lilly, Gregory Bateson, and the strange history of dolphin research00:07:45 – Teaching electronic music to engineering students and encouraging creative play00:12:21 – What makes sound music, and why streaming has changed how people listen00:20:04 – Organized sound, John Cage, silence, and listening differently00:24:08 – Why birds sing at dawn and why science still struggles to explain the dawn chorus00:26:34 – Birdsong, mating success, nightingales, and the limits of simple evolutionary explanations00:29:16 – Studying musicality in birds and why scientists resisted the question00:34:20 – Humpback whale song, beauty, and what science often leaves out00:39:15 – Koalas, lyrebirds, noise, distortion, and what humans recognize as song00:44:10 – Bee dances, prairie dogs, symbolic communication, and the importance of attention00:48:05 – Justin Gregg’s emotional support alligator story and animals as individuals00:53:55 – Narwhals, belugas, military dolphins, and Cold War animal research00:57:10 – Escaped animals, freedom stories, and why humans root for animals in captivityGUESTSJustin Gregg – Animal Cognition Researcher and WriterAuthor of If Nietzsche Were a Narwhal, Humanish, and Are Dolphins Really Smart? His work explores animal minds, dolphin cognition, human exceptionalism, and the stories people tell about intelligence, happiness, and meaning.David Rothenberg – Philosopher, Musician, and WriterProfessor of Philosophy and Music at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Author of Why Birds Sing, Thousand Mile Song, Bug Music, and other works exploring music, nature, animal sound, and the deep connections between human creativity and the more-than-human world.FOLLOW ACCELERATOR MEDIATwitter/X: https://x.com/xceleratormediaInstagram: https://instagram.com/xcelerator.mediaLinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/accelerator-media-orgWebsite: https://acceleratormedia.org#AnimalCognition #Birdsong #WhaleMusic #JustinGregg #DavidRothenberg #AnimalCommunication #Dolphins #MusicPhilosophy #Anthropomorphism #Bioacoustics #CuriosityEntangled

Waste is not just what societies discard. It is one of the clearest records of who we are, how we live, and what kind of planet we are leaving behind. In this wide-ranging conversation, anthropologist Joshua Reno and geologist Jan Zalasiewicz explore waste as both a human problem and a geological force, moving from landfills and urban rubble to deep time, the Anthropocene, and the far future of Earth itself.  Joshua Reno, professor of anthropology at Binghamton University, studies the hidden systems societies depend on but prefer not to think about, especially landfills, disposal, and the cultural meanings of waste. Jan Zalasiewicz, geologist and paleontologist, has spent decades mapping the physical traces humans leave behind, from landfill strata and made ground to the broader geological signatures of the Anthropocene. Together, they bring two very different disciplines into unusually close conversation. They discuss why waste is both necessary and disavowed, how landfills reveal uncomfortable truths about human behavior, and why the geological scale of human leftovers is far larger than most people realize. They explore how cities preserve layers of industrial history like buried archives, why “waste as resource” is both useful and misleading, and how the accelerating production of waste changes our sense of time. From there, the conversation opens outward into questions of continuity, extinction, future readers, nuclear warning systems, the Fermi paradox, deep-time oceans, and what it means to leave a material record in a universe that may not care whether anyone is left to interpret it.   This conversation bridges anthropology, geology, environmental thought, philosophy, and deep time, revealing waste not as a side effect of civilization, but as one of its defining signatures.⸻TIMESTAMPS00:00:27 – Joshua Reno on landfills, hidden systems, and the paradox of necessary waste00:06:27 – Why studying trash reveals more than self-reporting ever can00:10:06 – Why many geologists resist treating landfill and waste as geology00:13:22 – The shocking scale of the technosphere and humanity’s waste legacy00:19:03 – Why pollution narratives are powerful but incomplete00:20:55 – Fly ash, landfill mining, and the complicated idea of “good waste”00:25:43 – Cities as layered archives: London, war, rubble, and urban strata00:29:23 – What landfill work feels like from the inside: constant motion, danger, and routine00:35:34 – Sewer epidemiology and why institutions often resist what waste can reveal00:39:00 – Future readers, lost continuity, and who might one day interpret our remains00:49:08 – Nihilism, speculative philosophy, and the spread of “the world after us” thinking00:53:12 – The Fermi paradox and whether civilizations accelerate into self-destruction01:00:35 – Nuclear waste, deep burial, and the problem of warning distant futures    ⸻GUESTSJoshua Reno – Professor of Anthropology, Binghamton UniversityAuthor of Waste Away: Working and Living with a North American Landfill and Military Waste: The Unexpected Consequences of Permanent War Readiness. His work examines waste, disposal, landfills, and the hidden systems that shape social life.Jan Zalasiewicz – Geologist, Paleontologist, and StratigrapherEmeritus Professor of Palaeobiology, University of Leicester, Author of The Earth After Us and co-author of The Cosmic Oasis. His work spans geology, paleobiology, the Anthropocene, and the long-term material traces of human civilization.

Cultural evolution has shaped human nature far more than we realize, and economist Robin Hanson and evolutionary biologist Joe Henrich reveal why ignoring this changes everything about policy, innovation, and our future. In this deep dive conversation, they explore how culture doesn't just influence behavior, it rewrites our preferences, beliefs, and even our cognitive machinery.

Joe Henrich, professor at Harvard and author of The WEIRDest People in the World, explains how humans evolved to be uniquely reliant on social learning, making us a cultural species first and foremost. Robin Hanson, economist at George Mason University and author of The Elephant in the Brain, challenges the implications: if cultural evolution can account for most of human nature, then far more has changed in the last hundred thousand years than conventional wisdom suggests—and far more could change in the near future.

Together, they tackle why economists bracket preferences instead of explaining them, how WEIRD psychology has dominated research while studying statistical outliers, why the collective brain hypothesis suggests innovation depends more on population size than individual genius, and why organizations systematically suppress innovation despite claiming to value it. They discuss marriage norms and kinship structures that literally reshape cognition across cultures, big gods and moral religions that enabled large-scale cooperation, and the uncomfortable selection pressures modern societies refuse to discuss openly.

This conversation bridges economics, evolutionary biology, anthropology, and policy—revealing why cultural evolution deserves far more attention than it receives in academia, government, and institutional design.⸻

TIMESTAMPS

00:00:04 – Introductions: Economics meets cultural evolution

00:01:26 – What is cultural evolution and why does it matter?

00:03:31 – The ambitious scope: explaining preferences, beliefs, and values

00:04:08 – Why economists bracket preferences—and why that's a problem

00:04:55 – Cultural evolution as a return to Darwinian thinking

00:06:26 – How genetic evolution shaped us to be cultural learners

00:07:45 – Why cultural evolution rarely enters policy discussions

00:12:00 – The WEIRD problem: most psychology research studies outliers

00:20:00 – Marriage norms, kinship, and cognitive differences across cultures

00:28:00 – The collective brain: why innovation depends on population size

00:38:00 – Can individuals or small groups out-innovate large populations?

00:48:00 – Religion, cooperation, and big gods that enforce moral norms

00:58:00 – Why societies struggle with explicit reasoning about cultural evolution

01:08:00 – Selection pressures we're not thinking about: fertility, values, migration

01:18:00 – The challenge of integrating cultural evolution into institutional design

01:24:30 – Cultural evolution's influence (or lack thereof) in economics

01:26:00 – Innovation: overwhelmingly important, surprisingly poorly understood

01:28:00 – Why organizations suppress innovation while claiming to promote it

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GUESTS

Robin Hanson – Economist, George Mason University

Author of The Elephant in the Brain and The Age of Em

https://overcomingbias.com/

http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson

Joe Henrich – Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology, Harvard University

Author of The WEIRDest People in the World and The Secret of Our Success

https://x.com/JoHenrich

https://henrich.fas.harvard.edu

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Website: https://acceleratormedia.org

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ABOUT CURIOSITY ENTANGLED

Curiosity Entangled pairs distinguished thinkers from different disciplines for unscripted conversations about consciousness, science, technology, and humanity's long-term future. Hosted by Accelerator Media, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to science storytelling and long-term thinking.