Cybersecurity Where You Are (audio)

In episode 212 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson speaks with Will Knebel, Sr. Penetration Tester at the Center for Internet Security® (CIS®), and Chris Eufemia, Penetration Tester II at CIS. From pushing vulnerabilities as far as possible to tailoring the language of engagement outcomes, they break down how the CIS Red Team (CRT) relies on collaboration to support its clients in strengthening their cybersecurity posture.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 00:30. The unconventional paths that led Will and Chris to red teaming at CIS
• 03:42. Two surprises from supporting the public sector with red team engagements
• 06:33. How diversity in the U.S. public sector leads entities to approach cybersecurity differently
• 08:30. CRT's commitment to helping clients understand underlying solutions
• 09:25. Ongoing collaboration with teams who support CIS's security best practices
• 11:38. The most common mishap in engagements and how it creates a false sense of security
• 16:16. Pushing vulnerabilities as far as possible, a real example, and capturing this in reports
• 20:23. A lesson from SANS: Using AI to uncover patterns that unlock more testing vectors
• 22:22. CRT's testing within CIS and why an understanding of consequences is vital
• 22:48. Dedication to education: The importance of teachable moments and skills building
• 29:45. Physical penetration testing: Examining whether someone could get into a facility
• 33:20. Tailoring an engagement's outcomes to technical and non-technical audiences alike
• 35:40. The rise of testing AI elements directly through red teaming
• 36:54. How CRT continues to adapt to keep up with attackers

Resources

• Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center®
• CIS Red Team
• Episode 201: The Evolution and AI Enablement of Pentesting
• CIS Cyber Threat Intelligence Team
• Episode 210: The CIS SOC — Keeping Security Operations Human
• CIS Services®
• CIS Critical Security Controls®
• CIS Benchmarks® List
• Exploited Protocols: Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP)
• Commonly Exploited Protocols: Server Message Block (SMB)

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 211 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson speaks with Joshua Palsgraf, Sr. Cyber Threat Intelligence Analyst at the Center for Internet Security® (CIS®), and Kyle Leonard, Cyber Threat Intelligence Analyst at CIS, about the scariest malware of 2026. From an infostealer that hides its command infrastructure on the Ethereum blockchain to artificial intelligence (AI) agents running chunks of intrusions, they break down what makes malware “terrifying,” why takedowns are getting harder, and what defenders can still do about it.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 02:08. The three factors that make malware strains "terrifying"
• 03:39. How the expansion of "as a Service" offerings complicates malware investigations
• 05:10. How member reporting helps to link the stages of an investigation
• 06:31. A move to more automation: Threat actors' use of AI to run chunks of the kill chain
• 07:38. Abuse of trusted applications and services over the development of customized tools
• 10:04. The single scariest malware strain of 2026 and the techniques it uses to earn that title
• 14:45. How an emerging technique calls traditional malware takedown playbooks into question
• 16:21. The challenging, never-ending, and even fun effort of keeping up with new malware
• 22:19. The cost of running a cybercrime operation: “A couple hundred dollars a month”
• 23:38. Real-world examples of threat actors giving more operational control to AI agents
• 26:31. Why essential cyber hygiene still holds sway in defending against the scariest malware
• 29:05. Recommendations for defending against clever malware evasion techniques
• 30:33. The Thing and Facehugger: How these malware names capture today's threat landscape
• 32:48. Looking ahead to 2027: AI as an assistant and infrastructure beyond seizure

Resources

• Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center®
• CIS Cyber Threat Intelligence Team
• Episode 159: The Scariest Malware of 2025
• SLTT C2 Traffic Tied to Remus Malware Distribution Operation
• ClickFix: An Adaptive Social Engineering Technique
• Episode 124: The Many Layers of a Malware Takedown Operation
• Disrupting the first reported AI-orchestrated cyber espionage campaign
• Inside a Multi-Agent AI Framework Used to Compromise Government Entities in Asia
• Taiwan says it was targeted last month in AI-driven hacking campaign
• Cloudflare deploys protections against php2shell vulnerability
• Real-Time Indicator Feeds
• Living off the Land: Threats Looming From Within

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 210 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson speaks with Patrick Cooper, Security Operations Center (SOC) Analyst II at the Center for Internet Security® (CIS®), and Nathaniel Ludke, SOC Analyst II at CIS. Together, they take listeners inside the 24x7x365 CIS SOC, from alert prioritization and severity-based escalation to member reporting and the use of artificial intelligence (AI) for open-source intelligence, packet analysis, and SQL querying. They explain why AI is the tool and the human is the loop for U.S. State, Local, Tribal, and Territorial (SLTT) government members of the Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center® (MS-ISAC®).

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 01:20. What a typical shift for a CIS SOC analyst looks like
• 03:29. Challenge: Supporting members while minimizing overwhelm and stress
• 06:25. Common indicators of compromise (IOCs) as impetus to take a deeper look
• 07:01. Prioritization: First in first out with a few noteworthy exceptions
• 07:41. How severity of an alert affects the CIS SOC's communication with members
• 08:51. The typical path of escalation for alerts
• 09:36. Hot IP entries and agency notes inform false-positive judgments
• 10:42. Designating the severity of false positives
• 14:09. Automated (monthly), manual, historical, and other types of reports from the CIS SOC
• 17:01. No news is good news? Why MS-ISAC members both welcome and worry about silence from the CIS SOC
• 18:01. The CIS SOC's use of AI for open-source intelligence and information gathering
• 20:07. Human is the loop: How AI supports packet analysis, SQL querying, and more
• 22:20. AI enablement, not replacement: Keeping security operations human
• 23:42. How AI can function as an additional security threat
• 25:23. Hallucination risk and the SOC analyst “spidey sense”
• 26:25. Relationships with MS-ISAC members: The "lost art" of knowing when something's off

Resources

• The CIS Security Operations Center (SOC): The Key to Growing Your SLTT's Cyber Maturity
• CIS Cyber Incident Response Team
• CIS Cyber Threat Intelligence Team
• Cybersecurity Services
• You Have a Cybersecurity Incident. Now What?
• Episode 190: Separating Mythos AI Fact from Fiction
• CIS Controls v8.1 Incident Response Policy Template

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 209 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson argues that most organizations prepare for operational failure like they're bracing for a hurricane while most adversaries are playing chess. Drawing on security chaos engineering and game theory, he walks through a structured approach that blends threat modeling, internal red teaming, and constructive disagreement to empirically test and strengthen a defensive posture.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 00:33. The RSA Conference 2025 presentation behind this episode
• 00:48. How artificial intelligence (AI) is only accelerating adversaries' evolution
• 01:23. Hurricanes and chess: Analogies for different types of disaster preparedness
• 04:03. Overview of chaos engineering and game theory
• 05:01. Understanding threat vectors in our environment and how MITRE ATT&CK can help
• 05:50. Why adversaries "need a vote" when planning for failure
• 07:03. Red teaming and the need for penetration testing as part of an internal process
• 07:50. Going beyond technology to understand business objectives and strategy
• 08:51. Continuity as a consideration for continually adapting and updating controls
• 10:12. Transition from three separate threat silos to multidimensional threats
• 10:45. Game theory: It's not just a tabletop exercise (TTX)
• 12:15. Goalkeeper: An analogy for addressing "predictability of weakness"
• 13:52. Testing where our weaknesses are: An important element of chaos engineering
• 14:58. Accounting for biases and finite resources when evaluating strengths and weaknesses
• 17:56. Vulnerability identification: An example of how a strength can become a weakness
• 22:25. The need to resist getting too sophisticated with internal red teaming too quickly
• 24:23. Rigor for pushing back against tired adages like "it's never happened to us before"
• 26:22. An implementation strategy focused on communication
• 27:00. Dr. Tyler Moore's Return on Security Investment and the consequences of doing nothing
• 28:03. Debate and commit: A leadership principle for getting the most out of disagreement
• 30:42. Start small, provide notice to those affected, and consider a "surprise audit"
• 32:12. Minimize the blast radius, build hypotheses, balance bias, and other best practices
• 37:38. Parting thoughts of how to break down this approach

Resources

• Episode 208: Secure Harness Engineering for Agentic AI
• Game Theory Informed Security Chaos
• Book - Security Chaos Engineering: Sustaining Resilience in Software and Systems
• CIS Community Defense Model v3.0: Turning Threat Intelligence Into Action
• CIS Red Team Services and Exploit Demo
• Penetration Testing
• CIS Critical Security Control 18: Penetration Testing
• MS-ISAC Guide to DDoS Attacks
• Episode 121: The Economics of Cybersecurity Decision-Making
• Episode 166: Foundations of Actuarial Science in Cyber Risk
• CIS Leadership Principles
• Netflix TechBlog

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 208 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson breaks down secure harness engineering for agentic artificial intelligence (AI). Noting the risks posed by AI agents acting without oversight, he highlights "episodes" as auditable elements that help to provide feedback, and he walks through 15 controls spread across five stages as a way to engineer an AI harness with security in mind. He also differentiates secure harness engineering from prompt engineering, guardrails, frameworks, logs, and universal wrappers for AI agents.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 01:23. The need for a control system in light of agent escape incidents
• 02:19. Analogy of a financial analyst to understand why separation of duties is important
• 02:57. Revolution and then evolution: How AI models have changed exponentially since 2022
• 04:54. Where secure harness engineering has a capability
• 05:42. Making decisions traceable: The need for an evidence chain to build controls effectively
• 07:15. Smartphones: A parallel for understanding the value of each new AI model
• 11:20. Engineering controls, not standard policies for all models
• 12:22. Secure harness engineering vs. prompt engineering
• 12:51. Models' evolving role: How it invites new security questions to be posed
• 15:16. AI agents without oversight: The insider persona with which defenders need to contend
• 16:02. The need for determinism and an effective diagram to build for it
• 18:22. Definition of secure harness engineering
• 19:36. Episodes and the importance of log assessment in mediating model capability
• 20:42. Reality verification: A feedback loop that gets into the concept of forensic assessment
• 21:27. Questions to ask as you get into an AI agent's evidence chain
• 22:56. Moving through intent, authority, reasoning, synthesis, decision, and enforcement
• 25:38. Side effects: What they are and how they actualize risk
• 27:16. Verification and audit: How they empower you to look at control opportunities
• 28:49. Five stages and 15 controls for secure harness engineering
• 29:47. What secure harness engineering is and is not
• 32:11. Three questions to help you get started
• 32:52. An important question for the future

Resources

• Artificial Intelligence (AI) Agents Companion Guide
• The Secure Harness: A Governance Architecture for Agentic AI
• When Agent Capability Outruns Control: Lessons from the July 2026 OpenAI and Hugging Face Incident
• Episode 202: Delineating AI Security and Cybersecurity
• Harness Engineering & Agent Orchestration
• OWASP Top 10 for Large Language Model Applications

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 207 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson makes the case for treating artificial intelligence (AI) not as software but as an ongoing trust relationship. He highlights the value of integrating best practices from regulations like the EU AI Act, walks through the three stages of an AI governance lifecycle, and explains how AI risk management fits into organizational governance, change management, and other business processes.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 01:16. The trust component of AI governance
• 02:02. A need to align to regulatory best practices and bring them into AI risk management
• 03:47. Advice: Contextualize, don't generalize, your risks associated with AI use
• 04:40. Common questions that lead to AI governance as a requirement
• 06:59. Grounding an agile AI governance process on foundational principles
• 07:46. How the "fortress" approach overlooks the relationship element of AI security
• 09:51. A direct invitation: Listener feedback on AI governance thinking
• 11:44. Evaluating trust and relationship in machine learning and generative AI
• 14:04. The role of human oversight in realizing AI as a method that gets to a solution quicker
• 14:53. AI governance boards: A potential solution to elevating AI literacy internally
• 16:00. AI governance lifecycle: Three phases from current business processes to value generation
• 18:55. Overview of the future of AI security
• 23:16. The need for foundational security controls and AI-specific controls
• 25:00. AI governance assessment: Why it needs to happen across the organization
• 26:28. How AI governance ties into organizational governance
• 29:49. Ethics and responsible AI practice
• 29:57. Change management considerations with AI deployment
• 30:35. A concluding call to action to get stronger together

Resources

• CIS Critical Security Controls®
• Episode 198: AI Privacy from a Risk-Based Perspective
• Episode 122: DeepSeek AI Security and Utility Considerations
• Episode 120: How Contextual Awareness Drives AI Governance
• AI Playbooks for SLTT Cybersecurity Leaders
• CIS Controls v8.1.2 AI Security Guidance Workbook
• Guide to Implementation Groups (IG): CIS Critical Security Controls v8.1
• Mapping and Compliance with the CIS Controls

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 206 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson and Tony Sager speak with Julie Morris, Founder and Head of Thought Leadership at Persona Media, about why trust and influence have become survival skills for today's CISOs. Julie breaks down three types of organizational power, explains why the "good guys" resist the language of influence, and offers a practical starting point for anyone who's ever felt like PowerShell was the only power they understood.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 02:13. From old to new: A shift in how trust and influence factor into organizational structures
• 04:24. The three kinds of power in an organization: hard, soft, and network
• 09:59. Wise advice: Build your personal and professional network first
• 11:07. How influence multiplies confidence with network power
• 12:03. Inertia, fear, and status quo: overcoming the emotional reactions that oppose change
• 18:12. How Sean uses the power of "slow down," not "no," to support AI transformation
• 20:49. Why good thought leadership starts with empathy and self awareness
• 24:32. Building organizational processes that "trigger" a change in CISOs' trust and influence
• 26:30. Hugging Face as an example of how triggering moments become lessons
• 27:42. What Tony Soprano has to do with measuring trust and influence
• 30:47. Reality check: Every information gap gets filled one way or another
• 32:15. The power of community and shared ideas in figuring out thought leadership together
• 36:09: Advice: Be in the "river" of your network to go where you want to go
• 37:34. How understanding of shared values helps to overcome imposter's syndrome

Resources

• CIS Critical Security Controls®
• Episode 183: The Role of CISO in Supporting Risk Translation
• Episode 187: The Role of a CISO as a Strategic Storyteller
• Episode 192: How Leaders Balance Expertise and Communication
• Episode 199: Translating Cyber Risk into Business Decisions
• The Myth of Mythos: What It Means For Information Security
• Episode 202: Delineating AI Security and Cybersecurity

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 205 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Tony Sager speaks with Phyllis Lee, VP of SBP Content Development at the Center for Internet Security®(CIS®), and Steve Lipner, Executive Director of SAFECode. Together, they discuss how an updated document from CIS and SAFECode gives concrete guidance on what artificial intelligence (AI) means for your Secure by Design process.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 02:17. A refresher on making Secure by Design digestible for end organizations
• 02:57. Distillation and prescriptive guidance: The value provided by CIS
• 06:53. An overview of Butler Lampson's "Gold Standard of Security"
• 07:03. How a shift in approach to Secure by Design led to the founding of SAFECode
• 09:42. The importance of verification requirements for what developers have done
• 12:54. A product of CIS pragmatism: Prioritization relative to the development environment
• 20:06. Artifacts as evidence of secure software development at work
• 30:15. How the updated document provides guidance around AI
• 30:45. What AI creates instead of new classes of vulnerabilities

Resources

• CIS Critical Security Controls® (CIS Controls®)
• Secure by Design
• Secure by Design v1.1 A Guide to Assessing Software Security Practices
• Turning Secure Software Development into a Measurable Practice
• CIS and SAFECode Release Secure by Design v1.1: A Guide to Assessing Software Security Practices
• Episode 164: Secure by Design in Software Development
• CIS Critical Security Control 16: Application Software Security
• Guide to Implementation Groups (IG): CIS Critical Security Controls v8.1
• Episode 200: Alan Paller's Vision and Our Next Chapter
• From Prompts to Protocols: The Security Blueprint for Enterprise AI
• Mythos AI: What Actually Matters for Cybersecurity Leaders

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 204 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson speaks with Ryan Winmill, Chief Security Officer and Vice President of FIFA World Cup Boston, and John Cohen, Executive Director of the Office of Strategic Programs and Initiatives at the Center for Internet Security® (CIS®). Together, they discuss how FIFA World Cup 2026 (FWC26) — secured through an unprecedented tripartite governance framework, $625 million in U.S. Congressional funding, and real-time intelligence that stopped a swatting attempt at the finals — set a new standard for proactive event security worldwide.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 01:18. The "unprecedented" governance framework created for FWC26
• 03:53. The role of CIS as a force multiplier for FIFA, host regions, and other partners
• 11:00. Why you can't trust the person with an ego in large-scale event security planning
• 13:23. How the threat environment evolved over the previous three World Cup tournaments
• 17:23. A new bar for proactive event security going forward
• 18:43. How CIS provided quality control that helped to mitigate swatting calls during FWC26
• 21:55. Unique approaches used by host regions to better understand the World Cup fanbase
• 23:15. How counterfeit FIFA volunteer uniforms triggered a cross-city credentialing response
• 26:46. Recommendations for future large-scale event host cities
• 30:19. Ryan's recommendation to future host cities: "Call CIS before you get started"

Resources

• Special Event Risk Analysis & Advisory Services
• Episode 196: Securing FIFA World Cup 2026 Collaboratively
• Inside the Security Operation Behind the 2026 FIFA World Cup
• 3 Lessons for Securing Large-Scale Events: Inside FIFA World Cup 2026
• Securing FIFA World Cup 2026 With a Collective Defense Approach

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].

In episode 203 of Cybersecurity Where You Are, Sean Atkinson speaks with Pavlina Pavlova, Founder of Critical Cyber. Together, they discuss how Pavlina started Critical Cyber to go beyond the data and give voice to the human impact of cyber attacks, from ransomware hitting hospitals to cyber tactics targeting civilians in active conflict zones.

Here are some highlights from our episode:

• 00:44. How Pavlina's work covering the impact of cyber attacks on Ukrainian critical infrastructure led to Critical Cyber
• 03:13. How Critical Cyber works with cyber attack victims, responders, and other audiences
• 04:08. Countering the tendency, even among cybersecurity experts, to sanitize cyber attacks' human impact
• 08:57. The use of storytelling with those impacted by cyber attacks to drive policy changes
• 15:02. Why cyber attacks in some sectors are underreported
• 19:01. Critical Cyber's mission of combining testimony, research, and expert collaboration
• 24:51. Where Critical Cyber is and where it's looking to go

Resources

• Critical Cyber
• Cybersecurity for Critical Infrastructure
• Episode 202: Delineating AI Security and Cybersecurity
• Recent Water Utility Attacks Offer a Blueprint for Resilience

If you have some feedback or an idea for an upcoming episode of Cybersecurity Where You Are, let us know by emailing [email protected].