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Hello, welcome to Bringing Design Closer. My name is Gerry Scullion and I’m a service design practitioner and trainer based in Dublin City, Ireland. 

In this episode, I caught up with the wonderful, the one and only, Dana Chisnell. Now, we met a number of years ago when I was speaking at UX Scotland and had a great conversation at that time about design in government. I’m delighted today to continue that conversation on the show. We also speak about her time working on a tour of duty type of project for two years within the Obama administration, designing for comprehension and also, get some more sage advice from Dana about the early-stage design activities to do within an organisation of low design maturity. 

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