Hello. Hello. How are you? Well, I’m just thinking what a privilege and pleasure it is to host you for the second time on the Biz Communication Show. And I’d like to start with what I I consider a great illustration of persistence when you want something. And I’m referring to the fact that when you first applied for a position major position with the Corrections Bureau, you received a letter stating that you were not selected. Eventually, you received notification that you were accepted for that position. It will help us to know what happened in the meantime. How did you transition from being rejected to being accepted and oh my gosh, how many people in the job market today want to hear that. How did that happen? What happened? Well, thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Bill. Um, that’s a wonderful question, and I love answering that. Um, having received a letter, I asked each person for you to think about a time when you applied for a position and you were so excited about it and anticipating after that great interview as you saw it, that you would be receiving a call or a letter. I certainly, if you’re saying, “Yes, that’s me,” I’m with you because that was me as well. And so I waited with anticipation for that letter, and finally, after waiting and waiting, it it was delivered to me by my dad who used to work for the post office, that made it that much sweeter to me. And anxiously, I I got the envelope, and I opened it up, excited to to read the letter, and it said this is notification that you were not selected. So, to your question, how did it go from not selected to being selected? I believe it started with my disbelief, my disbelief. I did not believe that what it said in that letter, me not being selected, could anyway possibly be accurate. I read the letter. I paused and contemplated it, I thought about it, and I did what naturally came to me at that time, and that was quite some time ago, and I would imagine in this age and time, it would certainly be what comes to younger people. I didn’t believe it, and so I picked up the phone. I picked up the phone doing what I believe millennials, Zoomers today would do. Instead of texting, we want texting then, I called the person, the Human Resources Administrator’s name who was on the letter. I called him and said, “I believe this is a mistake.” I believe it’s a mistake, and I ask you to please re-evaluate my interview packet, give it another look, and please call me later to notify me that I’ve been selected. And oddly enough, he listened to me, and later, some weeks later, I received another letter. And that other letter was the right letter that said, “Congratulations, you’re hired.” That is a marvelous lesson for each one of us in in believing first of all in ourselves, believing in our credentials, believing that we are the right person, that we can do the job. And then taking that next step, which so many of us probably would be reluctant or reticent to take, but you took it and then began an incredible career in corrections. You’re reminding me, Darlene, of an instant where there was a client that I really wanted to serve. I went to high school in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I went to McCallie school, a secondary school there. And that’s the home of Crystal. And so naturally, I loved Crystal Burgers. Well, eventually, I thought since I love Crystal and the company so much, I would love to present one or more seminars for them. So, I got the phone number of their trainer. I had an initial conversation, and while he was courteous, he said, “Nothing now.” So, a year later, I called again, “Nothing now.” And then because he lived rather close by my location in Gainesville, Georgia, I said, “Well, all right, you’re, you’re not going to hire me now, but I would like to have a few minutes visit with you to find out more about what your training program aims to accomplish with your employees.” And he said, “Okay, we can do that.” So, I I went to his home office here near Gainesville, Georgia. We sat, and I mostly asked questions, but every now and then when he would say, “Here’s one segment of our training,” I would say, “You know, I I’ve got something similar to that.” And without being pushy, I described my approach. And this happened for about 20 or 30 minutes. I didn’t dominate, but when there was an opportunity, I said, “Well, here’s what I would be doing if I were doing that program.” And at the end of our conversation, he looked at me and he said, “You know, I believe we need to hire you.” So, I was able then to go back to my home home high school home base and work with the Crystal company for half a day. It it all of us who are in either service or products business, I suppose the underlying lesson here is the first no should not be the final word. And you’ve illustrated that so well. Have you had any other instances such as the one I just described where you of course, you were once you got into the system, did you have any instances similar to mine or not? No. I I would say that that initial no, uh, and because once I started working there, I literally worked uh through all three decades of my life. Um, and uh, and so that disbelief, you know, changed everything. Of course, as an entrepreneur, uh, I’ve I’ve heard no or the delay in it, and my approach to it is pretty much the same. Um, I recognize the words “not now” could mean later, and so now it’s a matter of nurturing the relationship, but not being a stalker if you will, uh, giving people time, um, but still keeping the possibility, uh, top of mind for me. Let’s get to your experience now as Warden of the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. I’ve mentioned to you before that I had an opportunity when I was on the faculty of the University of Georgia, I had the opportunity of teaching their extension course one summer in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. So I know the territory we’re talking about. In our conversations off camera, I have heard you say several things about your initial uh stint there as as the warden. And one that I like very much is where they ask, “What do we call you?” What was your answer to that? Oh, what a lovely question, lovely question. Um, my response to, “So, what do we call you?” was a pretty short, clear response. And it was a question to the question. My question to that question was, “What did you call the guy before me?” And it was like an aha moment. “Oh.” And the staff member said, “Warden.” And I said, “That works.” That simple. Yes, if that’s what they called your predecessor, that’s what they should call you. That settled that pretty quickly. Yes. Yes, a lot of it was um, the the idea that this, this CEO, uh, this warden, in the world of corrections, is a girl. It’s a woman. So what do we do? Call me what you called the guy. And that cleared it up. It was clear ever since. Good strategy. Good strategy. Darlene, in in just a minute or so, I’m am going to get you to share with our viewers and our listeners what might be some of the greatest leadership challenges that you have faced during your career and what was your solution to them. We’ll be back for that in just a few seconds. Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost, but very valuable, 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. We’re here on the Biz Communication Show. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, your host for the show on video and on podcast. And our guest is Darlene Drew. Darlene, I noticed, of course, in the bio that you provided that you teach leaders and you teach leaders how to teach other leaders. And of course you have the credibility to do this because of your gosh, 32 years in the correctional system. What would you say were a couple of, maybe huge challenges that you faced in leadership in your career and how did you handle these one or two challenges that would come to mind? Sure, thank you for that question. Um, the biggest challenge was uh, with actually my last assignment, uh, before I retired. And the challenge came in the reason of staff being very concerned about this leader coming in, which is, which is common. And the concern was the incoming leader, one is a woman. So that was their challenge. It made it, it was a challenge for them, and it was something that I had to educate uh, staff on, so that they could understand that this will be okay, uh, with a woman serving in the position of a CEO, a woman serving in the position of warden. Uh, it was two parts, it was actually three parts to it. The second part of the concern of staff and the challenge uh, for me was staff understanding that it’s a process, so they had a fear of the big word “change.” Uh, there’s a new leader who’s a woman, and she might change something. Uh, and that ties to the third part of it uh, because there was a mindset and there was a practice that’s employed in so many different organizations, and that mindset and practice was, “But we’ve always done it this way.” So therein, what do you, what did I do in terms of the awareness of the fears, the concerns, the objections uh, that staff had for those particular things? Um, it was about how I led. And I embraced a leadership philosophy and practice of accessibility. So we have staff members who have these fears and concerns and in some cases, uh, misgivings. Uh, how do you debunk that as a leader? Uh, one, it’s all about being accessible. It was about me being accessible to the staff, me being visible to the staff, so they could see that this is a real-life human being who talks to us, who’s interested in us, and who asks us questions and gives us an opportunity for feedback. And then the other part to it was demonstrating the competence that’s necessary to perform well in the position. The other part was credibility that when I spoke and I said that I would do something that staff could see for themselves that she’s credible, that she is doing what she said she would do. And then I think something that’s very, very important is compassion. Being able to demonstrate that I care about you. I care about the quality of work, but I care about you as a person. And I continue to practice those skills and that level of openness, I did it as long as I could, and that meant from a beginning all the way until I was no longer serving there. And as a result of that, people began to ease up a bit, began to embrace leadership, ultimately understanding that we can be okay if we do this thing together. And that’s when things began to change. I commend that leadership philosophy. Regarding visibility, I was in the corporate arena for a good number of years before I became a speech coach and a communication consultant. And there was one organization I worked for where the CEO had a side entrance to the building. So that he could come in and not have to have contact with anybody. And then a second part of what was going on in the isolation of management there, I saw many times that I would be in the company cafeteria for lunch. And back then, Darlene, we called the top officers “the suits.” Of course, nobody wears suits now. But the suits would come in for lunch and instead of sitting at the table with employees and getting to know them, instead of that, they had a private dining room that they went into, and they once they got their trays, they didn’t acknowledge anybody else in the room. So here’s a CEO who’s invisible. Here’s a a team with that CEO who has limited contact with people. And as you know, that that not being accessible is a morale killer. And I also like what you said about compassion. And compassion takes into account, for example, in an ordinary workplace, it takes into account what, what people are going through even personally, which would affect what’s going on on the job. So, I I can understand now why you succeeded through a 32-year corrections career. Something else that I want to get to, I I know that you, and as part of your your training, you became very qualified to help people who had different communication styles come together. And I remember years ago when I first became familiar with the DISC system, I’ll tell you an interesting story about it. I brought the report home from the first time I took the DISC survey, and I handed it to my wife, and she was not a very demonstrative person. She would have a little chuckle here and there, a little laugh. But she read my report, and I’m not kidding when I say she rolled on the floor laughing. She said, “They really nailed you. That’s you all the way.” And I said, “Okay, now we’re going to have you take the assessment.” And it it was uh, it’s remarkably accurate. Tell us a little bit about the DISC system, how you used it, and possibly you’re still using it with clients. What what does it help an organization and individuals, what does it help them realize? Yeah. Thank you for that question. DISC is an an eye opener. Uh, all of us uh, we’re interacting and we’re communicating with people all the time, at home, uh, in the workplace, uh, when we’re going in and out of stores. And one of the things that’s so important is to recognize that each one of us are beautifully unique. We all have our different personalities, we have our strengths and areas, and areas where we’re less strong. So what DISC does, it is an, it gives facilitators, consultants like me, an opportunity to use that magnificent instrument to help other leaders, to help other trainers, uh, get to know people. Get to know that one recipe, one recipe does not fit all. So the more we take the time to get to know a person, and that’s what DISC does. It takes you through D, uh, that particular style, one of the words that captures that is “dominant.” It captures the the influencer, the person who lights up with every single person that comes in the room. That’s the influencer, and then the steady person, you know those people that they tend to keep everything steady. And then there’s the compliance person who wants to make sure everything is done right. So, if you want to take the time and get to know a person and and to get to know those that you work with and work for, DISC is absolute gold because it does that. It gives us the opportunity to not just know people but to connect with them. And that’s what people want. People want to know, “Do you see me?” And DISC allows you with the use of that instrument to get to see people and meet them where they are. My only regret about DISC was that I didn’t take it 20 years earlier because many of us make some of the assumptions that I made before I took DISC, and the assumption was this person is really odd. And so I I’ll do what I can to change them. Okay, how’s that going to work out for you? And then we find out with the dominant person, the influential person, the steady person, and the compliant person, which you described, we find out that each one is valuable to the organization. And if you had an organization where you only had the high “I” type, the inspirational type, what kind of what kind of order would you have? What kind of progress? And each one is essential to the mix. So thank you for giving us that overview. Darlene, this has been as I expected, predicted, highly informative, very applicable. And I know that we have viewers and listeners who want your contact information. So, would you please share that with us? Definitely, thank you. You can reach me, and I’d love to hear from you. You can reach me at [email protected]. Uh, you can send me an email there and get a hold of me. I believe Dr. Bill has my phone number as well, but I would love to connect with you and see where you are and what services um, that we can do to to serve you in your leadership capacities. Thank you. And since you have given your contact information, I’m happy to give mine. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. You will find, of course, that this interview is on there. And by the way, I like to call it a conversation more than an interview, but I guess formally, it’s an interview. And I have been conducting the Biz Communication Show. Now this is the eighth year. So I’ve had the opportunity to bring to you and to benefit myself from great leaders and outstanding communicators. So if you go to my YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, PhD, you have, and everybody loves this word, you have free access to all of these interviews. And I encourage you and of course I have a number of instructions that I’m giving solo as well. And while you’re there, be sure to hit the subscribe button. My website, since I’m the Biz Communication Guy, quite logically, my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. And on the website, you’ll see how to subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t done that already. Like Darlene, I will welcome phone calls. I welcome people no obligation, no cost, just an exploratory, get-acquainted call, where you tell me your communication challenges, problems, issues, concerns. We discuss them and we find, am I the person to help you with them or do I know someone else who will? I would love to talk to you. And then I also want to give credit. That number is 678-316-4300. Again, 678-316-4300. And I want to give credit to the co-producer of this show. His name is Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville. He was here in Gainesville, Georgia for many years. I met Mike in 1997 when I was just becoming a professional speaker and consultant. Mike has been my guru for learning technology and marketing and he’s always ahead of the times. His website, localinternetpresence.com. I encourage you to go to localinternetpresence.com and you’ll find that he is an an incredible resource. Darlene, in 30 seconds or a minute, we’ve we’ve bounced around a lot of great thoughts about leadership. In 30 seconds or a minute, how would you like to pull together something that we leave with our viewers and listeners? Here’s what I would say to every person that’s taken on the responsibility of leadership, that has a heart for people, that wants to serve people and wants to make things better. Uh, Dr. Bill, at the very beginning, you shared uh, my philosophy, and I have another way that I say the same thing, and I want to leave leaders and emerging leaders encouraged that as you do your best to lead and as you train and teach people, remember to do this, “Teach what you know.” Teach what you know. “Lead people where you have been.” And when it comes to asking, “Ask for what you are also willing to do.” And I believe that when you put all of those things together, you have an opportunity to sow great seed into the lives of people and be an example of what quality leadership looks like. Well said. Thank you very much. Thanks again so much to Darlene Drew, a leadership expert for being with us today. We’re very grateful. Grateful that you were with us also for the Biz Communication Show. Encourage you to be with us again next week. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.