Hi there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. In our eighth season of hosting outstanding business communication professionals who share tips and strategies that will boost your business. And today it’s an extreme pleasure and privilege to welcome Mike Sammond from the greater Atlanta metropolitan area. For the past 13 years, Mike Sammond has been the President and CEO of Gwinnett Business RadioX, a company that produces, distributes and markets online radio shows and professional podcasts for businesses of all sizes in the Atlanta area. Mike Sammond is an award-winning radio and television sportscaster. It’s impossible to mention all the places he has been a headliner. I can mention CNN Headline News, ESPN, he’s been a sports highlight reporter and broadcaster, announcer for Olympic Broadcasting services, and they have heard his voice and his expertise in faraway places like Vancouver, London, Rio, Tokyo, Beijing, Paris, Singapore. In fact, there are quite a few people who say that they have worked internationally, but they may have crossed the border once. Here’s a guy who has been an international voice and presence for 13 years. Mike Sammond’s play-by-play experience, uh, covers all sports, baseball, football, basketball, and hockey. He’s announced games for Major League Baseball, Arena Football, International Hockey League, Southeastern Conference, and the list, as they say, could go on. Additionally, Mike has been a minority owner in professional minor league sports, such as hockey and Arena Football while serving as a top executive in sports management. So, I know you will be excited as I am to welcome Mike Sammond. Hello, Mike, how are you doin’? Hey there, Dr. Bill. How are you? You know, it would have probably been a lot easier just to say, he’s a jack-of-all-trades but a master of none. Uh, that would have been inaccurate, sir, because you are a master of many. I’ve had the wonderful privilege of being with you when you first started Business Radio X. I remember very well, a Gwinnett Business Radio X. I remember very well a reception that was held after your first year or so, and it was so impressive, the number of leaders that you had brought into that program, and many of them now have their own network of listeners and admirers. The the first thought that comes to me today, Mike, is with all of this and looking at the fact that at the University of Georgia, where I once taught speech communication, your bio on LinkedIn shows that you were a broadcast journalism major. So, the thought comes to my mind, and I’m sure to our viewers and listeners, exactly when did you start getting interested in journalism as a professional? I sometimes wonder if maybe in your baby crib there was a camera and a microphone. What what really stirred your interest? Was it maybe watching some highly competent broadcasters or sensing the impact of the media? What what really got you into this exciting and dramatic business? It’s it’s funny, Dr. Bill, because you see people today and like my my kids, you know, and they’re in their 20s now and, you know, when they were going to college, they didn’t know what they wanted to do or had no idea. I I didn’t have a a microphone or a TV camera with me in the crib, but I kind of knew at a very early age, growing up, uh, outside of Boston. I was a big-time hockey fan, and so back then, I used to watch the Boston Bruins. And this was back when they had, uh, the great Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito and the big bad Bruins. And then, and then I I played hockey every single day, and I loved it. And for some reason, you would think a young kid in New England, uh, who loves hockey, would wanna grow up and be a professional hockey player. But for me, watching the telecasts on TV, I wanted to be Fred Cusick and Johnny Pierson. Those were the announcers for the Boston Bruins back then. And I thought, “How cool is it to have a job where you’re paid to go see hockey or paid to go see sports?” And so, for whatever reason, I just decided as a young kid, now going back and knowing how much they get paid these days, I probably should have gone that route, but I, you know, I never had the big size or anything like that, and I was a decent hockey player, but I wasn’t good enough. Uh, so from the age of six, seven, eight, nine years old, I knew I wanted to be a sportscaster of of some way. And when I was a sophomore in high school, my dad took a job in Atlanta, so we moved, uh, down south to the Atlanta metropolitan area, Alpharetta. I’m a graduate of Milton High School. And it turns out, I didn’t know at the time, but I was very fortunate that to move down here because UGA and I’m sure you know this, had one of the top journalism schools in the the country. Uh, back in the day, back in the the late 80s, if you wanted to be a broadcaster, you would go to Syracuse was the number one school. That’s where Bob Costas and all the great announcers came from. But the other top schools were Missouri and the uh, Henry Grady School of Journalism at UGA. So I was very fortunate to move to this area with Georgia right down the road. And so I went there, got my broadcast degree. As soon as I started college there, I worked at the campus radio station, and I did as much as I could. Um, got to call a lot of sports at the campus radio station. That turned into a job with a commercial radio station in Athens, and I’ve been in sports broadcasting in some form or fashion, uh, ever since. Every time I host someone, I I find some common ties that that I didn’t know about. Mike, when I was at, um, on the speech communication faculty at the University of Georgia, my first year there, uh, they launched WWOOG, the campus radio station. So I listened to it for a year, and after a year, I went to the station manager, who was a student, and I said to him, “You’ve called this a campus radio station, but you’re leaving out a significant factor. It’s all students who are doing the broadcasting. I think they’re doing a fine job, but what about having a faculty program?” And so they agreed, and for a couple of years, I started hosting a weekly one-hour interview show. And I interviewed students, I interviewed faculty members, I interviewed some of the star football players of the time. The name of the program was “Dialogue,” because that’s what I wanted. It was it was a wonderful experience. And in those days, maybe not later on for your era, but in those days, to continue in broadcasting, we had to get a broadcasting license. I remember having to study for that and go to downtown Atlanta and take a um a written test, and I had no idea what what some of the terminology was, but I had had to learn, did did you have any entrance uh, qualifications like that into radio? We didn’t need any kind of a license or anything like that to be a broadcaster back then. Um, yes, our days of WWOOG, uh, so you’re familiar with walking up all the stairs to the top of Memorial Hall. Oh yeah. Yeah. And and and I I was fortunate as a freshman, I I came in and again it was it was a student-run station. So what a great benefit, uh, for the students that wanna be broadcast majors. And I started in news, I got to work sports. Uh, my senior year, I was the station manager of of the campus radio station, and my only goal was not to screw it up and to make sure we stayed on the air. I probably wasn’t the best general manager. Um, but I got so much great experience that when I left UGA, I was able to get a job right out of school, uh, as a sports director at a TV station, uh, because of the experience I had, the hands-on experience. So, you know, my advice to anybody that wants to get into the field of broadcasting is take any job, whether it’s news or sports, it doesn’t matter, you want to get your foot in the door and just get on air as much as you can. And it’s okay if you’re not good. You’re not supposed to be good when you start. Don’t, you know, I I we were on a campus radio station. I also worked on some AM radio stations, so a lot of people probably didn’t hear a lot of the things I did, which is probably a good thing. But the more reps you can get, the better. So you always want to do as much as possible. And, uh, it’s it’s been a great experience at my my my four years at UGA were a lot of fun, and it laid the groundwork for the rest of my career. It reminds me of a um of a subsequent radio show that that I was privileged to host. I I moved to uh, professionally, to a small town in Kansas, McPherson, Kansas. And they had a very small population. They had one radio station. So after I’d been there a couple of months, I decided that there wasn’t much else to do on weekends, and I loved radio. So I went to, um, a friend who took me to the station manager. The station manager interviewed me and we talked a little about my radio experience, and he wanted to find out, of course, how I would sound on the air. So, this was maybe on a Wednesday, and I can still remember him saying at station KINX, “Okay, you’ll start Saturday morning. Be here at 5:30.” And, uh, like many of us who start in the media, I ran the AM and FM station from for 12 hours on on Saturdays, and that was in the days of reel-to-reel tape. One of the fun things about it is thinking back to some of the early mistakes we made, not you, of course, but I I can remember some that I made, but like in any profession, we learn from our mistakes, don’t we? You’re going to make mistakes. We’re human, and that’s fine. Uh, I make mistakes to this day, but you’re you’re never going to be perfect. If you shoot for perfection, you’re you’re going to fail. Um, but those are the fun days. Uh, you know, I I did, you know, when I was at UGA, we learned how to do reel-to-reel, cutting the actual tape with a razor blade. Yeah. Yeah. At UGA, we played records. Um, you know, when I was working at WRFC, the commercial radio station in Athens, while I was a student, um, I was doing the obituaries every day. We would get the, uh, the Athens newspaper and I would talk about Dr. uh, Joe Smith passed away at the age of 86. His memorial service will be tomorrow night at, you know, and I was, you do whatever it takes to get in there. You’re going to make mistakes. Um, but again, that that lays the whole foundation for everything you do. And I will say this as well, whether, you know, for those that want to get into the the broadcast business as well, a lot of people say you got to have the great voice. Now, we’re not all gonna have the Dr. Bill, voice of God, that that you have. Um, but you don’t have to have the great voice. Just do your homework and and and know your stuff. Um, you know, I’ve called a lot of games and I will prepare for days and days and days for a two-hour broadcast. And 90% of the stuff that you prepare, you’re never going to use on air. Um, but if you’re prepared, it shows because I’ve been in the business, when I’m listening to Sports Talk radio here in Atlanta, I can tell who’s prepared and and who’s who’s kind of winging it, if you will. And and quite honestly, I got out of sports radio six, seven years ago because I kind of lost that desire to spend every waking moment watching every sportscast. I, you know, I I wanted to have a life and my my priorities have changed as I got older. Um, and and and I felt like I was just taking up the time when I was working at Sports Radio in Atlanta, uh, that someone young and up-and-coming really deserved the spot more than me. So I stepped aside because really, you have to do your homework. You have to eat, sleep, drink, eat sports if that’s what you want to do. So there’s there’s a major commitment there. Yes, it’s not an ad-lib business. No. No, you you and and you can’t fake it. I mean, if if if you don’t do the homework and you don’t know what you’re talking about, people people can see right through that. And, um, like I said, I I can tell, you know, who’s done their homework because of having been in the business when I’m watching, you know, a TV show, uh, broadcast or listening to a radio show. Mike, I want to feature next um what Gwinnett Business Radio X is all about. We’ll talk about that in just a few seconds. All right, Mike, I I know as we said in the introduction, it was 13 years ago that you started along with your colleagues, Gwinnett Business Radio X. It seems to me, I read in the last day or two that there are 130 million people a day listening to podcasts. I’m not sure if that’s accurate, but I I know it’s it’s vastly popular. Tell us what goes on with Gwinnett Business Radio X. The number I’ve heard by the way, for this year, that this is the first year where 100 million people are listening to a podcast each each week. I don’t know if it’s every day. It could be every day. The average podcast listener listens to seven podcasts a week. Um, you know, our the founders of the company, Business Radio X, started this about 20 years ago before podcasting was even a thing. And they tried to figure out a way to help the the small business owner, to how to how to use this platform to help the small business owner. And they came up with a way to give a voice to small business. You know, small business is the backbone of of every community. And so we take a lot of pride in being the voice of business in the communities that we serve. So, uh, I have a station here in Gwinnett County. Uh, we have studios throughout Atlanta, and we have several others across the country. And we give that business leader a chance to come on and talk about the great work they’re doing. Um, and and no cost. Uh, we want to hear their story, we want to help get the word out. We want to level the playing field for those small business owners. But we also offer an opportunity for those business owners to have their own podcast, uh, which checks a lot of boxes. You’re creating content. You’re becoming an authority in your field. Um, you’re establishing relationships in the studio with the people that you meet. Um, in our 13 years of doing shows here in Gwinnett, we’ve had over 3,500 business leaders, including people like yourself, Dr. Bill, uh, come on our shows and talk about the great work they’re doing in the community. And you meet everybody and anybody. Uh, so it’s been very rewardful for me. It’s uh, been a lot of fun. I get to talk for a living. I’ve met so many wonderful people, uh, yourself included. Uh, so it’s it’s something that we are giving back to the community, we’re giving a voice to small business, but we’re making a little money as well by having businesses of all sizes. We have banks, we have um, um, health coaches, we have financial planners, we have attorneys that have their own shows, and they come to our studio and and and and we produce their shows for them and that’s how we make our living, uh, here. So, it’s been a it’s been a lot of fun. It has to be, for me to be having done this for 13 years now. One of the things I’m curious about is what is the the major time and place that people listen to podcasts? Now, I I will give my my own experience with it. Uh, I travel some still and I’ve got a daughter in Columbia, South Carolina and one in Savannah. And I travel some on business still. When I traveled for many years, I would play some of the popular music that I liked, and uh, through Spotify, I still will do that occasionally. I did find out, though, that after a while, I heard it all several times. So I started listening to podcasts. And and for me, the five and a half hour drive to Savannah becomes much more fascinating, and of course, informative because I am listening. And I remember way back when we first got, I guess it was called books on tape at the time, and I would be listening to a book driving along alone. Um, I remember when I’d go to a rest stop, I would get back to the car quickly. I wanted to uh, I wanted to hear it. In addition, what what do you know uh, is the the listening place and time and habit that most people have who listen to podcasts, Mike? I I think you kinda nailed it right there. A lot of people, their first of all, they’re multitasking. Um, people are on the treadmill, they’re exercising, they’re taking a walk, and they’re listening that way. Uh, obviously, most more people listen in cars than they do, you know, sitting in an office on their computer. The the iPhone has changed everything. And that’s that’s, you know, you ask why is podcasting become so popular? If it was one word, it would be “smartphone.” iPhones, uh, and that sort of thing have have changed everything. People are multitasking, they’re on the go. And the great thing about a podcast, one of the questions I get from a lot of our clients is, “How long should my show be? Can I do an hour? Can I do two hours?” You could, but you’ll probably after 30 minutes, you’re gonna lose half your audience. The podcasts are in, they’re in bite-size samples that people love. Um, the great thing about a podcast, too, there’s millions of them out there. So if you are into anything, if your thing is, you love cats and dogs playing checkers, I don’t know, just something crazy. There’s probably a podcast out there about animals playing checkers. I don’t know, but there’s anything you love. So that there there’s those those uh, niches out there that whatever it is that you love, there’s going to be a show that’s going to be for you. And once you find that show, it’s it’s it’s amazing. And my kids are the same way as you now. They’re listening to Spotify and so forth. They’re not listening to FM and AM radio. Yes. They’re losing the Bluetooth on their phone to to to go into the car speaker. And so they’re listening to their shows and their music that way. So, uh, the landscape is changing, but podcasting, uh, as you say, it it it’s it’s reaching thresholds, 100 million listeners now every week, uh, just in the, I believe, just in the United States alone. Uh, obviously, worldwide and and the US isn’t even the most popular country when it comes to podcasting. We’re up there, but uh, there are other countries where it’s even more popular, but podcasting, uh, continues to to to grow and it’s going to be growing uh, for the foreseeable future. Well, what, and getting to your point about the potential length of a podcast, I’ve I’ve prefer when I’m traveling to a podcast that I’m going to listen to to be at least 30 minutes. If one’s seven minutes, I don’t want to have to stop and and change to something else. 30 minutes is is reasonable, and I believe, as you say, that’s also a um, uh, probably a good standard for how long you will hold a listener on a topic. And um, it is the sweet spot. 30 minutes is the sweet spot because because the average commute for most people is 30 minutes. And that’s why we today have a 30-minute limit. One quick question before we sign off, most of us in any profession have role models, have idols, have those that we admire and learn from. Would there be you mentioned some at the start, but tell us again, who would be the top two or three broadcasters that have influenced you the most? I’ve always gravitated towards the ones that are just well prepared and share the story and it’s not about them and they don’t have any gimmicks. Uh, you know, close to home, a guy like a Pete Van Weeren, long-time announcer for the Atlanta Braves. He was the uh, you know, the PR guy for the Braves, so he he knew everything, he knew all the numbers. Uh, the Bob Costas, the Al Michaels, the guys that just share give a great job of of giving the story and throwing in some facts and things like that. To me, a good broadcaster is one that you don’t even really notice they’re there, like an umpire or a referee in in a football game. If they’re doing their job, you don’t even kind of realize they’re there, but they they make you feel at home. They almost feel like they’re talking to you, that you’re they’re your friend. Uh, you know, I got nothing against the Chris Bermans of the world with the, you know, back, back, back, back, back, back, you know, home run, but I’m not into the the gimmicky, the the loud, shouting ones, the ones that are more subdued a little bit and just uh, let the let the the sport share and and and do a good job, too. There are a lot of announcers that just don’t do the basics. When you’re doing radio, not so much TV, but radio, which is we talked about you and I are, that’s really our our our first love, give the basics. Uh, you know, what’s the score of the game? You know, where is the ball on the field right now? Who’s in the game? There are people that will do a radio and you might listen to a a a baseball game for 10 minutes, and you have no idea what the score is. Uh, a secret that a lot of baseball broadcasters will do, and will actually, in any sport, they’ll have an egg timer with them. And they’ll turn the egg timer over every time. And when that egg timer runs out, make sure they’ve given the score of the game. Just the basics. You know, where are we in the game? It’s 14 to seven, we’re in the third quarter or it’s 12 to 10 and it’s uh, in the seventh inning. Um, so so the broadcaster that just gives the basics and guides me along and tells me what’s happening and and and isn’t overbearing. So the Bob Costas, the Al Michaels, the um, the Ernie Johnsons of the world, just per- just consummate professionals that don’t rely on gimmicks. Those are the people I gravitate towards and the ones I look up to and the ones that I try to emulate when I’m when I’m doing my games. Yes, and we being Georgians, certainly, I think would want to include Larry Munson. who was a personality as as well as a sportscaster and and added so much to uh, University of Georgia football and tradition. Well, Mark, there’s that saying, uh, the old clock on the wall. I see it’s time for us to sort of wind it up. I want to thank you, and I know our listeners and our viewers will want to thank you for sharing your expertise with us today. So, I know there are those who will want to contact you to follow up with you. So, please give us your contact information. I’ll keep it very simple. [email protected]. And if you’re a small business person out there and would like to get the word out about the great work you’re doing in the community, shoot me an email and we’ll get you on a show and we’ll spend 15 minutes talking about, uh, the great work that you’re doing. Mike is the guy. Mike is the guy who has helped so many people find the the magic and the the um, attractiveness, the magnetic attractiveness of podcasting. Do get in touch with Mike. And now that Mike has given his contact information, I’m happy to give mine. My YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been posting videos on YouTube since 2007. Please don’t look at any of those. In recent years, it hasn’t been just my communication um, strategies and tips that I’ve given, but it’s I’ve featured other people. In fact, as I mentioned at the outset, this is the eighth season for the Biz Communication Show when I have wonderful guests like Mike. And then my website, since my tagline is Biz Communication Guy, logically, my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. There, you can subscribe to the podcast. And when you go to that YouTube channel I mentioned, I hope you will subscribe to the YouTube channel. I welcome phone calls, no obligation, no initial cost to hear about your communication problems and challenges, and see how I or someone I know can assist you with those. The co-producer of the Biz Communication Show, I give credit to Mike Stewart. In 1997, I met Mike Stewart through the National Speakers Association, Georgia, and Mike has been a wonderful mentor both in technology and marketing ever since. So, I encourage you to go to his website, localinternetpresence.com. And you’ll find that he is an an incredible resource. Mike, as we wind it up and think of what we’ve covered, what about giving us uh a takeaway thought, 30 seconds or a minute that you would like to leave with us, please? Well, I’m thinking that anybody that might be listening this may be somebody that’s interested in getting into the broadcasting business. Um, it’s a very rewarding business. It’s it’s a lot of fun if you have the passion for it. Um, I would say, do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door no matter where it is. And I’ll give a a real quick story. I’m I I you know, I’m pretty good at dropping names. I haven’t dropped any in this show, uh, but, uh, one of my uh, people that I worked with in my earlier days when I first started in television was Rece Davis. Now, if you’ve watch ESPN now and you watch College Football Game Day, everybody knows who Rece is. Uh, when Rece started at the uh, TV station where we were in Columbus, Georgia, he came on working in news. Um, he covered the City Council meetings, he covered the school board meetings. It’s not what he signed up for or what he wanted to do, but he got his foot in the door. He started doing the the covering those events, and then on the weekends, when we would need some help with college football or Friday night with high school football, he would help us out. Eventually a couple years later, I would move on and go on to do some baseball broadcasting in North Carolina. That opened up a spot in our sports department and Rece was able to move in, eventually worked his way up to Sports Director, and the rest, as they say, is history. So, whatever it takes to get in the door. Sweeping floors, cleaning the bathroom, whatever it is to get into a door, working at a radio station, a TV station. You know, you might have to cover news and even though you want to be sports. Uh, when I started out, I wanted to take any job I could get just to get in the door. It leads to to great things, and so that would be my advice. Uh, do whatever it takes early on. It may not be your ultimate goal, but eventually you’ll get there. That certainly destroys the myth that probably many television and radio uh, fans have is that that guy at the or that lady at the top is always been there. And uh, not the case, and there are many qualified people who don’t get there. But it’s it’s uh from I I remember as a kid, the first time um, to that age group, tape recorders were available, Mike, and and the magic of hearing our voices on tape recorders and you you’d take a tape recorder to a party and everybody would and and you’d listen and that was probably maybe my first introduction to what some type of media could do to attract, excite, entertain, educate, and I still love it. And that’s why I host this show and I have the incredible privilege of hosting experts like you. Thank you again so much for being with us today. Well, Dr. Bill, congratulations to you for doing something that a lot of people can’t do, and that is to force me and to get me to talk about myself because it’s not something I prefer to do or like to do, but because of my respect for you, you’ve always been so gracious, so kind with your time and your talent, and I appreciate you very much that I was willing to do this because I don’t like to talk about myself. Uh, but it’s been a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you so very much, and the the feelings of respect and admiration that you mentioned, they’re they’re so mutual. Thanks to those of you who joined us on the video portion and on the podcast. Invite you to be with us again next week for another version of the Biz Communication Show when we bring you tips and strategies that will boost your business.

Hello. Hello. How are you? Well, I’m just thinking what a privilege and pleasure it is to host you for the second time on the Biz Communication Show. And I’d like to start with what I I consider a great illustration of persistence when you want something. And I’m referring to the fact that when you first applied for a position major position with the Corrections Bureau, you received a letter stating that you were not selected. Eventually, you received notification that you were accepted for that position. It will help us to know what happened in the meantime. How did you transition from being rejected to being accepted and oh my gosh, how many people in the job market today want to hear that. How did that happen? What happened? Well, thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Bill. Um, that’s a wonderful question, and I love answering that. Um, having received a letter, I asked each person for you to think about a time when you applied for a position and you were so excited about it and anticipating after that great interview as you saw it, that you would be receiving a call or a letter. I certainly, if you’re saying, “Yes, that’s me,” I’m with you because that was me as well. And so I waited with anticipation for that letter, and finally, after waiting and waiting, it it was delivered to me by my dad who used to work for the post office, that made it that much sweeter to me. And anxiously, I I got the envelope, and I opened it up, excited to to read the letter, and it said this is notification that you were not selected. So, to your question, how did it go from not selected to being selected? I believe it started with my disbelief, my disbelief. I did not believe that what it said in that letter, me not being selected, could anyway possibly be accurate. I read the letter. I paused and contemplated it, I thought about it, and I did what naturally came to me at that time, and that was quite some time ago, and I would imagine in this age and time, it would certainly be what comes to younger people. I didn’t believe it, and so I picked up the phone. I picked up the phone doing what I believe millennials, Zoomers today would do. Instead of texting, we want texting then, I called the person, the Human Resources Administrator’s name who was on the letter. I called him and said, “I believe this is a mistake.” I believe it’s a mistake, and I ask you to please re-evaluate my interview packet, give it another look, and please call me later to notify me that I’ve been selected. And oddly enough, he listened to me, and later, some weeks later, I received another letter. And that other letter was the right letter that said, “Congratulations, you’re hired.” That is a marvelous lesson for each one of us in in believing first of all in ourselves, believing in our credentials, believing that we are the right person, that we can do the job. And then taking that next step, which so many of us probably would be reluctant or reticent to take, but you took it and then began an incredible career in corrections. You’re reminding me, Darlene, of an instant where there was a client that I really wanted to serve. I went to high school in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I went to McCallie school, a secondary school there. And that’s the home of Crystal. And so naturally, I loved Crystal Burgers. Well, eventually, I thought since I love Crystal and the company so much, I would love to present one or more seminars for them. So, I got the phone number of their trainer. I had an initial conversation, and while he was courteous, he said, “Nothing now.” So, a year later, I called again, “Nothing now.” And then because he lived rather close by my location in Gainesville, Georgia, I said, “Well, all right, you’re, you’re not going to hire me now, but I would like to have a few minutes visit with you to find out more about what your training program aims to accomplish with your employees.” And he said, “Okay, we can do that.” So, I I went to his home office here near Gainesville, Georgia. We sat, and I mostly asked questions, but every now and then when he would say, “Here’s one segment of our training,” I would say, “You know, I I’ve got something similar to that.” And without being pushy, I described my approach. And this happened for about 20 or 30 minutes. I didn’t dominate, but when there was an opportunity, I said, “Well, here’s what I would be doing if I were doing that program.” And at the end of our conversation, he looked at me and he said, “You know, I believe we need to hire you.” So, I was able then to go back to my home home high school home base and work with the Crystal company for half a day. It it all of us who are in either service or products business, I suppose the underlying lesson here is the first no should not be the final word. And you’ve illustrated that so well. Have you had any other instances such as the one I just described where you of course, you were once you got into the system, did you have any instances similar to mine or not? No. I I would say that that initial no, uh, and because once I started working there, I literally worked uh through all three decades of my life. Um, and uh, and so that disbelief, you know, changed everything. Of course, as an entrepreneur, uh, I’ve I’ve heard no or the delay in it, and my approach to it is pretty much the same. Um, I recognize the words “not now” could mean later, and so now it’s a matter of nurturing the relationship, but not being a stalker if you will, uh, giving people time, um, but still keeping the possibility, uh, top of mind for me. Let’s get to your experience now as Warden of the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. I’ve mentioned to you before that I had an opportunity when I was on the faculty of the University of Georgia, I had the opportunity of teaching their extension course one summer in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. So I know the territory we’re talking about. In our conversations off camera, I have heard you say several things about your initial uh stint there as as the warden. And one that I like very much is where they ask, “What do we call you?” What was your answer to that? Oh, what a lovely question, lovely question. Um, my response to, “So, what do we call you?” was a pretty short, clear response. And it was a question to the question. My question to that question was, “What did you call the guy before me?” And it was like an aha moment. “Oh.” And the staff member said, “Warden.” And I said, “That works.” That simple. Yes, if that’s what they called your predecessor, that’s what they should call you. That settled that pretty quickly. Yes. Yes, a lot of it was um, the the idea that this, this CEO, uh, this warden, in the world of corrections, is a girl. It’s a woman. So what do we do? Call me what you called the guy. And that cleared it up. It was clear ever since. Good strategy. Good strategy. Darlene, in in just a minute or so, I’m am going to get you to share with our viewers and our listeners what might be some of the greatest leadership challenges that you have faced during your career and what was your solution to them. We’ll be back for that in just a few seconds. Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost, but very valuable, 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300. We’re here on the Biz Communication Show. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, your host for the show on video and on podcast. And our guest is Darlene Drew. Darlene, I noticed, of course, in the bio that you provided that you teach leaders and you teach leaders how to teach other leaders. And of course you have the credibility to do this because of your gosh, 32 years in the correctional system. What would you say were a couple of, maybe huge challenges that you faced in leadership in your career and how did you handle these one or two challenges that would come to mind? Sure, thank you for that question. Um, the biggest challenge was uh, with actually my last assignment, uh, before I retired. And the challenge came in the reason of staff being very concerned about this leader coming in, which is, which is common. And the concern was the incoming leader, one is a woman. So that was their challenge. It made it, it was a challenge for them, and it was something that I had to educate uh, staff on, so that they could understand that this will be okay, uh, with a woman serving in the position of a CEO, a woman serving in the position of warden. Uh, it was two parts, it was actually three parts to it. The second part of the concern of staff and the challenge uh, for me was staff understanding that it’s a process, so they had a fear of the big word “change.” Uh, there’s a new leader who’s a woman, and she might change something. Uh, and that ties to the third part of it uh, because there was a mindset and there was a practice that’s employed in so many different organizations, and that mindset and practice was, “But we’ve always done it this way.” So therein, what do you, what did I do in terms of the awareness of the fears, the concerns, the objections uh, that staff had for those particular things? Um, it was about how I led. And I embraced a leadership philosophy and practice of accessibility. So we have staff members who have these fears and concerns and in some cases, uh, misgivings. Uh, how do you debunk that as a leader? Uh, one, it’s all about being accessible. It was about me being accessible to the staff, me being visible to the staff, so they could see that this is a real-life human being who talks to us, who’s interested in us, and who asks us questions and gives us an opportunity for feedback. And then the other part to it was demonstrating the competence that’s necessary to perform well in the position. The other part was credibility that when I spoke and I said that I would do something that staff could see for themselves that she’s credible, that she is doing what she said she would do. And then I think something that’s very, very important is compassion. Being able to demonstrate that I care about you. I care about the quality of work, but I care about you as a person. And I continue to practice those skills and that level of openness, I did it as long as I could, and that meant from a beginning all the way until I was no longer serving there. And as a result of that, people began to ease up a bit, began to embrace leadership, ultimately understanding that we can be okay if we do this thing together. And that’s when things began to change. I commend that leadership philosophy. Regarding visibility, I was in the corporate arena for a good number of years before I became a speech coach and a communication consultant. And there was one organization I worked for where the CEO had a side entrance to the building. So that he could come in and not have to have contact with anybody. And then a second part of what was going on in the isolation of management there, I saw many times that I would be in the company cafeteria for lunch. And back then, Darlene, we called the top officers “the suits.” Of course, nobody wears suits now. But the suits would come in for lunch and instead of sitting at the table with employees and getting to know them, instead of that, they had a private dining room that they went into, and they once they got their trays, they didn’t acknowledge anybody else in the room. So here’s a CEO who’s invisible. Here’s a a team with that CEO who has limited contact with people. And as you know, that that not being accessible is a morale killer. And I also like what you said about compassion. And compassion takes into account, for example, in an ordinary workplace, it takes into account what, what people are going through even personally, which would affect what’s going on on the job. So, I I can understand now why you succeeded through a 32-year corrections career. Something else that I want to get to, I I know that you, and as part of your your training, you became very qualified to help people who had different communication styles come together. And I remember years ago when I first became familiar with the DISC system, I’ll tell you an interesting story about it. I brought the report home from the first time I took the DISC survey, and I handed it to my wife, and she was not a very demonstrative person. She would have a little chuckle here and there, a little laugh. But she read my report, and I’m not kidding when I say she rolled on the floor laughing. She said, “They really nailed you. That’s you all the way.” And I said, “Okay, now we’re going to have you take the assessment.” And it it was uh, it’s remarkably accurate. Tell us a little bit about the DISC system, how you used it, and possibly you’re still using it with clients. What what does it help an organization and individuals, what does it help them realize? Yeah. Thank you for that question. DISC is an an eye opener. Uh, all of us uh, we’re interacting and we’re communicating with people all the time, at home, uh, in the workplace, uh, when we’re going in and out of stores. And one of the things that’s so important is to recognize that each one of us are beautifully unique. We all have our different personalities, we have our strengths and areas, and areas where we’re less strong. So what DISC does, it is an, it gives facilitators, consultants like me, an opportunity to use that magnificent instrument to help other leaders, to help other trainers, uh, get to know people. Get to know that one recipe, one recipe does not fit all. So the more we take the time to get to know a person, and that’s what DISC does. It takes you through D, uh, that particular style, one of the words that captures that is “dominant.” It captures the the influencer, the person who lights up with every single person that comes in the room. That’s the influencer, and then the steady person, you know those people that they tend to keep everything steady. And then there’s the compliance person who wants to make sure everything is done right. So, if you want to take the time and get to know a person and and to get to know those that you work with and work for, DISC is absolute gold because it does that. It gives us the opportunity to not just know people but to connect with them. And that’s what people want. People want to know, “Do you see me?” And DISC allows you with the use of that instrument to get to see people and meet them where they are. My only regret about DISC was that I didn’t take it 20 years earlier because many of us make some of the assumptions that I made before I took DISC, and the assumption was this person is really odd. And so I I’ll do what I can to change them. Okay, how’s that going to work out for you? And then we find out with the dominant person, the influential person, the steady person, and the compliant person, which you described, we find out that each one is valuable to the organization. And if you had an organization where you only had the high “I” type, the inspirational type, what kind of what kind of order would you have? What kind of progress? And each one is essential to the mix. So thank you for giving us that overview. Darlene, this has been as I expected, predicted, highly informative, very applicable. And I know that we have viewers and listeners who want your contact information. So, would you please share that with us? Definitely, thank you. You can reach me, and I’d love to hear from you. You can reach me at [email protected]. Uh, you can send me an email there and get a hold of me. I believe Dr. Bill has my phone number as well, but I would love to connect with you and see where you are and what services um, that we can do to to serve you in your leadership capacities. Thank you. And since you have given your contact information, I’m happy to give mine. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. You will find, of course, that this interview is on there. And by the way, I like to call it a conversation more than an interview, but I guess formally, it’s an interview. And I have been conducting the Biz Communication Show. Now this is the eighth year. So I’ve had the opportunity to bring to you and to benefit myself from great leaders and outstanding communicators. So if you go to my YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, PhD, you have, and everybody loves this word, you have free access to all of these interviews. And I encourage you and of course I have a number of instructions that I’m giving solo as well. And while you’re there, be sure to hit the subscribe button. My website, since I’m the Biz Communication Guy, quite logically, my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. And on the website, you’ll see how to subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t done that already. Like Darlene, I will welcome phone calls. I welcome people no obligation, no cost, just an exploratory, get-acquainted call, where you tell me your communication challenges, problems, issues, concerns. We discuss them and we find, am I the person to help you with them or do I know someone else who will? I would love to talk to you. And then I also want to give credit. That number is 678-316-4300. Again, 678-316-4300. And I want to give credit to the co-producer of this show. His name is Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville. He was here in Gainesville, Georgia for many years. I met Mike in 1997 when I was just becoming a professional speaker and consultant. Mike has been my guru for learning technology and marketing and he’s always ahead of the times. His website, localinternetpresence.com. I encourage you to go to localinternetpresence.com and you’ll find that he is an an incredible resource. Darlene, in 30 seconds or a minute, we’ve we’ve bounced around a lot of great thoughts about leadership. In 30 seconds or a minute, how would you like to pull together something that we leave with our viewers and listeners? Here’s what I would say to every person that’s taken on the responsibility of leadership, that has a heart for people, that wants to serve people and wants to make things better. Uh, Dr. Bill, at the very beginning, you shared uh, my philosophy, and I have another way that I say the same thing, and I want to leave leaders and emerging leaders encouraged that as you do your best to lead and as you train and teach people, remember to do this, “Teach what you know.” Teach what you know. “Lead people where you have been.” And when it comes to asking, “Ask for what you are also willing to do.” And I believe that when you put all of those things together, you have an opportunity to sow great seed into the lives of people and be an example of what quality leadership looks like. Well said. Thank you very much. Thanks again so much to Darlene Drew, a leadership expert for being with us today. We’re very grateful. Grateful that you were with us also for the Biz Communication Show. Encourage you to be with us again next week. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy.

Hi there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. The Biz Communication Show is now in its eighth season. And during that time I’ve had the opportunity to interview, and I really like to say have conversations with outstanding business professionals who share with us the communication keys and skills that have given them that success. And as we talk over those tips and strategies, you and I can benefit from them. Today, our guest is one that I happen to know, I’m acquainted with. Often the people that I interview globally, I don’t know, but I met Kevin Williams several years ago when we were members for a while at the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce near Atlanta, and we formed a professional affiliation and friendship, which is still going. This is his second appearance on the show, and we’re delighted, delighted to have him back. Kevin Williams is a seasoned global executive and franchise consultant with a career that spans continents and industries. Kevin has held leadership roles at some of the world’s most respected companies, including President of a German manufacturing firm in Mexico, Senior VP of Sales and Marketing for a Japanese enterprise, and a pivotal role at Eastman Kodak during its time as the top global brand. Now, Kevin serves as a trusted advisor in the world of commercial real estate and franchise consulting, helping entrepreneurs and investors navigate opportunities with precision and integrity. His expertise bridges franchise development, consumer goods, healthcare, capital equipment, and startup strategy. He’s worked in 10 countries. His expertise is known worldwide, and he comes to us now from the greater Greensboro Winston Salem High Point area in North Carolina. He’s worked directly with powerhouse retailers like Walmart, Target, CVS, and Costco, giving him a unique edge in helping clients grow even in the midst of the most challenging markets. Kevin brings a sharp business mind, a love for problem solving, and a commitment to surrounding himself with like-minded individuals. So I know that you will join me in welcoming Kevin Williams. Hello, Kevin.

Hi there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy once again, bringing you and myself tips and strategies from a highly qualified guest who’s a communication expert. And as a result of these tips and strategies, you and I will be able to boost our business.

It’s a great pleasure today to bring from the Atlanta metropolitan area, Paul Zanardo. Paul is the CEO and founder of Zanardo Designs. He has been implementing award-winning website design, SEO, graphic design, and video marketing since 2015. So his team is celebrating 10 years of service with their successful clients nationwide. And his achievements and the quality of his work have not gone unrecognized. The North Fulton Chamber of Commerce has honored him as the Solopreneur of the Year in 2024. And I guess Paul and his wife Amy were celebrating that when they were seen dancing at a North Fulton Chamber of Commerce. And we celebrate Paul being with us today. So welcome, Paul, to the Biz Communication Show. It’s a privilege to host you.

Thank you, Dr. Bill. I’m very excited and honored to be here.

Paul, as I’ve watched you on social media and on LinkedIn, I’ve noticed a marketing device that you implemented a couple of years ago, which definitely is eye-catching. And that’s what’s called your runaround marketing. Now, the room you’re in now isn’t big enough to fully illustrate that, but you can do it vocally. Describe for us that system of run-by marketing, how you came up with the idea, what did you want to accomplish, and what have been the responses to that?

Absolutely. I’d love to share that with you. And I don’t believe this is going to be an exclusive. I don’t believe I’ve shared this before. So this one’s special for your show, Dr. Bill. But run-by marketing came to me as a vision, like some other business ideas. Actually, starting my business vision from, I believe, God through prayer. I was working on a lot of social media for other businesses, and it was taking up so much time. And it was becoming stressful for me to do our companies as well, because I manage ours as well, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, all the platforms. And it was just becoming daunting and too much. And I was losing interest and losing the creativity aspect of it. And you need that in content.

So I was praying to God, actually, I need some help with this. What do you have in mind? Just help me to add value to other people, not to puff me up, but to serve. And I kind of had a moment, like an aha moment, sat up actually in bed, and I had run-by marketing. I knew the name. I knew how I was going to film it. And I used – it’s very simple because I’m a runner in the afternoons to stay healthy. So I’m already active that way. And I’ve implemented my exercise into our marketing strategy to save time, and it’s gone over really well.

I’ll use a ring light similar to this and some audio to mic myself up and say something real funny and run by the camera. And, you know, it’s been amazing.

Well, it seems to me in watching you run at a pretty good clip for, what, 50 or 75 yards, and then you wind up at the camera and you give a rapid-fire one-sentence description of the message you want to get across. Here we go. Call Dr. Bill. He’s the best communicator. I’ve got to stand up desk so I can do that foryou. I’ll vote for that one, yes. Go ahead, I’m sorry. One of the things, of course, we are invariably viewers who want motion. And one of the things I do as a speech coach, I look at some often even experienced speakers who are so afraid to move around. And I put it this way that some of them are holding on to that podium so tightly that they resemble somebody trying to survive the sinking of the Titanic. They just can’t let go of it. So you are implementing in a highly dramatic way what I teach. And that is that motion is impossible. Excuse me, motion is necessary. And we can reverse that in saying staying still is a great way to cure insomnia with your audience, whether it’s a video audience or whether it’s a speaking audience. So I really applaud you on that.

About how many of those segments have you done? I’ve been doing it for about two years now. And, oh, my gosh, that’s a good question. I’ll have to go back and count. But I average maybe one or two a month. Would those be available on your YouTube channel? You can find them on YouTube. I’ll put them on LinkedIn and Instagram. Yes.

Great. Well, go ahead. I was just going to mention sometimes about the nervousness, to your point, what you were saying. You know, when I was first starting this and, you know, I’m out in public at the park and so people are seeing me as I’m setting up and running by and they’re naturally curious and start asking questions. And, you know, I need to start doing this on construction sites because that’s one of our niches. That might be dangerous. Have you by any chance gotten any inquiries from some of those people who watch you do it in person? We actually have, which came to me as a surprise and was really exciting. And that’s when you know you’re reaching your market and you’re reaching people.

Absolutely. You mentioned LinkedIn and so many of our business professionals who are watching and listening use LinkedIn. I would imagine there have been times, Paul, when you are talking with somebody about developing a website. They don’t have one yet. And they say to you, well, Paul, I don’t need a website. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m very active there. I post a good bit. Not only that, I comment on what other people are doing. I even post videos on there. So explain to us, Paul, if we’re doing all that, why do we need a website?

Yes. So we get this question a lot. People say, well, my business is word of mouth or I do have a great LinkedIn presence. So what’s going to happen is even if you’re connected with someone and you’re building those relationships on LinkedIn, they’re going to research you online. They’re going to do an online search. They’re going to go to your website, your Google business, your other social media profiles, and all of those need to be buttoned up and up to date. And you want cohesive branding across the board. So the website, you know, is another way to another tool to sell and to engage your audience, build trust and help them contact you, hopefully even sooner.

Now, when you talk about websites, I know that you talk about SEO, search engine optimization. Let’s say I come to you and I say, Paul, I’ve got a website. And you respond and you say, well, what’s your SEO? And I say, I have no idea. I don’t even know what that means and had no way of testing it. What steps would you take with me as a client then?

Absolutely. So SEO is the acronym for search engine optimization. And I usually find from potential clients that there’s two ends of the spectrum. Like you’re talking about, they have no idea what it is or they have misinformation about SEO being the one-stop shop and solve everything. So SEO is extremely important. And it is how your website ranks against competitors. And also first, before it even does that, you need your website’s content to be able to be found and seen online. There’s something I believe we need to cover here in relationto that. And that’s keywords. How does that fit in? What’s the relevance there? So keywords are a very important part of SEO. When people are searching a certain speech coach. or presenter, you’re going to want those keywords kind of reverse engineer from a psychological standpoint, what your potential client is looking for. And to have those keywords strategically placed on your website makes a big difference. And the algorithm picks up on that and helps your website show up in search results.

Now, keywords are just one part of the equation. There’s many parts of SEO. And like I mentioned, SEO is not the solve all. It’s very important, but it’s very helpful. So keywords do play a big part in SEO.

You’ve been in the website business very intensely and also very successfully. Years ago, I remember when websites started and it was at that time largely print and maybe some photographs and eventually some audio. But then we’ve advanced to the video age. So when you’re working with clients, what would you tell a client who comes to you and wants to improve their website, make it more contemporary and more appealing? And they say, maybe, Paul, I should be doing something with video. How would you respond to that?

Video content is king. Even on LinkedIn, as you scroll, you’ve noticed some don’t like this, but that’s with our age of we want it now and lower attention spans. Video is taking over social media and for content as well. So hiring a professional to do video is very important. You need good lighting. You need audio. Like I mentioned this, even if you’re doing something quick like my run by marketings, these right here, here’s a microphone I can clip on here very quickly. And this clips into my phone and you get the audio straight in through your phone. Professional lighting. And if you’re doing, say, filming a speech or a presentation, you need professional video editing. And we do a lot of that and it’s very helpful. And that type of content to go on to your website shows your potential client that you’re the expert in your field and that you’re solving the problems that they need to be solved.

To me, as I mentioned, we’ve progressed from print to audio to video. And in fact, we still have all of them still have great value. But in my observation, there are many people who have not quite moved into the video arena. There’s an old saying, well, I’ve got a face for radio. But in essence, having the I guess I would say the courage and the initiative to get into video is not as daunting once you get sort of like getting your feet in the water. And eventually, I mean, there are many things we need to learn now. We need to learn AI and someone who’s not learning AI. They’re missing out. I saw my friend Terry Brock just two days ago mention that Skype is closing down. And you and I remember when Skype was it. That was before Zoom and that was before StreamYard, which we’re using now. So transitions come, changes come. And I would guess that one of your challenges and also your opportunities, Paul, is to keep very much in the forefront of knowing what the changes are and learning them. And I would think you have your own coaches and mentors to guide you through what we might call the new stuff.

Absolutely. Website design and any technology like you’re mentioning, SEO, website design, development is constantly changing. Even the landscape of social media, it’s constantly evolving and changing. And we’re growing as a society and we need to keep up with that. There are people who think that their website… I heard a friend one time said, well, I know my website’s wonderful. I’ve looked at ita thousand times myself. And it’s hard to see our own mistakes, either what we’ve got in there that shouldn’t be there or what we don’t have there that should be. So after a short break, we’re going to have you talk about the two or three major mistakes, very common mistakes, that you see with your clients and you help them correct. Be right back on that.

Okay, Paul, as I was mentioning, we need to explore. You see so many people come to you for the first time and they already have a website, many of them, and right away you can spot some deficiencies, either visible mistakes or what’s not there. What would be two or three of the more common ones?

We do get a lot of and a large majority of our clients are for website redesigns, like you mentioned, are clients that have existing websites. And when we start doing a deep dive and research into their online presence and their website, we often see outdated information, which is something that needs to be fixed. You know, if they’re calling a wrong number or the wrong email or they haven’t updated a new service that they’re offering, that’s a huge opportunity that’s missed.

And we also see information overload. If they designed their website themselves or hired a company that doesn’t exactly know what they’re doing and the nuances of beautiful design, marketing, and found in search results, that could have information overload. You mentioned keywords. Some people, an old SEO technique that I never used that is kind of used to cheat the system would be keyword stuffing. You’d see a page just with tons of information and all these keywords, and no one’s looking at that and that creates a bad user experience. So you want to create the best user experience for your potential customer or client.

We’ve heard for quite a few years from marketing experts that we’re wise to do niche marketing. That is, pick certain industries that our service will target. And one of the best analogies I know for that would be the medical profession. Because if I’ve got a broken bone, I’m not going to go to my dentist. There are many specialists. There are generalists, of course, family physicians. I had a wonderful appointment with mine yesterday. But when there are items that don’t fit his expertise, I then am directed, referred to a specialist. So you know and you teach niche marketing. What are the major markets that you targeted to serve? Why did you pick those?

So health care and construction, as I mentioned, are two of our very big niches. Construction being I did construction sales and marketing growing up, starting at the age of 15. My father, he told me, I’m not going to buy you those nice clothes at this high school you’re going to. You’re going to start working. And I found that construction paid cash every Friday. So I started in construction and actually enjoyed the hard work out of it and got into sales and marketing. So speaking the language in there and that expertise helps.

And then health care, I mentioned my father, he owns Zanardo Architects. And he’s been in business in Lawrenceville here for over 40 years. And a big niche for him is health care. And we started networking and working together on projects many years ago. And his niche is health care, doctor’s offices, hospitals and whatnot. So that naturally started to be a fit for us as well.

Reminds me of Lois Kramer. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Lois, but Lois is absolutely the best guru I know about the professional speaking situation. And her work also applies to people who are coaches and consultants. And Lois said, if you say you serve everyone,you probably are not going to serve anyone. Because again, going back to the medical profession, we like people whose niche and their expertise in that niche is very, very obvious. What would you suggest to a person who is starting a website, hasn’t done it, we’ve talked about those who already have one that you need to make some corrections on, but I’m coming to you and I have no website.

What are the steps to getting me going? It starts with a conversation. We need to make sure that we’re a good fit to work together, that our values and our mission and our expertise aligns with yours. We’re not in this for the money and websites can get very costly, so we want to make sure that we’re the best person, the best company for you and what it is that you’re trying to build.

Do you need to build brand awareness? Are you looking for generational lead? There’s many different e-commerce. Are you looking to sell products on your website? So there’s many different types of websites and having that conversation, getting to know each other, and it’s very important.

You and I have not met in person. We’ve met online many times. In our conversations, we have identified a couple of mentors and coaches who have been very valuable for us. And I go back to something I read a couple of years ago by Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell said, there’s not anybody who really succeeds alone. He said, not rock stars, not internet geniuses, not authors, not performers. There’s nobody who makes it alone. We do learn from those who have paved the way successfully, and we’re eager to learn from them.

Who are the couple of people that you and I mentioned and that we have definitely debts of gratitude to? Yes, there’s many great people in our network, and two that come to mind that have you and I on this show today, actually:

Greg Burkhalter, the LinkedIn guy. Him and I met right and we started our businesses at the same time. We met in a networking group, a faith-based networking group, and we hit it off really well. He has a servant’s heart, and his knowledge on LinkedIn and business getting done in a networking arena is amazing.

John Ray. I mentioned him. He’s gotten me involved with the chamber, Greater North Fulton Chamber, where I’m the diplomat chair now. And I met him actually through Greg Burkhalter on LinkedIn. And that was just, you know, John is a business coach for pricing, and he just wrote The Generosity Mindset, which is an excellent book. But I started following him on LinkedIn, and he has such great content. I started to add value to the conversation because it was such amazing content, and we developed a relationship. We had lunch, and he invited me to Business Radio X and then later invited me to the chamber where I’m very involved now, which has been hugely successful for my business. So those two gentlemen are definitely top of mind. I can speak very well for both of them as well.

Greg and I met when we were, oh, about three years or so networking together, the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce in Atlanta. I saw Greg develop, change careers, change his focus, become the LinkedIn guy. And, oh, man, he’s a prime example of somebody who can switch occupations, basically, and get into something that everybody needed and do so well with it.

John Ray and Greg have both been my guests several times on this Biz Communication show. I learned something from them every time. And John, in fact, recently helped me learn how to post weekly a LinkedIn newsletter. I had no idea how to do that. It’s quite complexto get started, and John was so helpful on that. And this is a lesson for every one of our viewers and listeners, no matter how advanced you are professionally and in your business and in your niche, there’s somebody who can help you take the next steps. You and I’ve learned that, haven’t we? We absolutely have. And I want to thank you again for having me on.

Now, I’ve seen Greg’s episode on your show and I’ve seen John’s episodes on your show. And I said, one day I’m going to be there. So now I’m a part of the club. Well, we can call you the terrific trio. There we go. Thank you. The triumvirate, if we want to. That’s great. It’s my privilege to host you.

The old clock on the wall tells me that we need to move along. And so I know, Paul, that there are many people who have been viewing and listening who want your contact information. So would you please give that to us?

Yes, absolutely. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Paul Zanardo, and I’m happy to get to know you there. Or obviously through our website, and that is zanardodesigns.com, Z-A-N-A-R-D-O-D-E-Z-I-G-N-Z.com.

No surprise to me that you’ve got a website. Yes, go there. It’ll help SEO. Yes, no surprise there. Now that you’ve given your contact information, and thank you for that. And I know people will want to contact you.

I’m happy to share mine. My YouTube channel has my name, Bill Lampton, PhD. Invite you to go there and subscribe. I have been posting communication instruction videos since 2007. Now, I don’t encourage you to go back and look at the first ones. Hopefully I’ve developed presentation and skill-wise since then. And of course, I have moved to more contemporary topics as well. But I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel.

And then naturally, my, hey, guess what, Paul? I’ve got a website. And my website is, since my moniker is the biz communication guy, no surprise that my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. On that website, there’s a place for you to subscribe to the podcast. And I certainly invite you to do that.

I would welcome inquiry phone calls with no initial financial obligation, just a discussion, an exploration of what your communication problems and challenges are and how I can assist you with them. And my phone number is 678-316-4300.

I also want to give recognition to the guy who got me started on that crazy thing called the internet. I met this guy, Mike Stewart, based in Nashville now, met him in 1997. And he has been my guru ever since. He first was here in Gainesville, Georgia for a while. He’s in Nashville now. His website, localinternetpresence.com. I encourage you to get to know him.

Paul, I would say that this has been stimulating, informative, helpful. And as the guest, I would like for you to pull together in 30 seconds or a minute what you would like to leave with our guests.

Absolutely. And like I mentioned, it is an honor and exciting to be on your show. So two things come to mind.

God built us to do community together, whether you’re a believer or not. Like you mentioned, we’re not supposed to do this alone. We need to surround ourselves with community, good people, especially if you’re in business, you want to surround yourself with successful people, people that have been in your field for a long time that can help.

And also I would say that for me, prayer. Prayer plays a huge role in my life and in my business, with family, with everything that I do. As it pertains to business, I say, I pray, where does the Lord need me?Who can I serve every day? I just wake up and I’m grateful for everything and all of our many blessings. Every day, I just wake up and I’m grateful for everything and all of our many blessings. And I just say, you know, I don’t ask for success from a monetary standpoint. It’s more like, who can I serve? Who can I help? And a lot of amazing things have come out of that for me.

Thank you for those inspiring words. Thank you so much for being a guest today. You and I have looked forward to this for quite a while. And I’m delighted with the information that you have brought and with the inspiration as well.

Thanks to those of you who joined us on the Biz Communication Show, the video portion, and also on the podcast. I invite you to be with us again next week when once more I host a guest who will help you and help me develop our communication skills and therefore boost our business.

See you next week. Thank you.

Hi there, welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, bringing you tips and strategies that will boost your business. And these tips and strategies come from my conversation with a very qualified guest and what we share will, as I said, benefit you when you apply these tips and strategies.

Coming to us today from the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, Melinda Marcus. Melinda Marcus is a body language expert who shows leaders how to speed read people. That sounds interesting. And influence decisions. As a result, our clients have won top career positions, improved team dynamics, and closed multimillion dollar deals. Melinda trained directly with a former special agent who trained the FBI. And she is only one of five people globally who attained the highest body language certification in his master program. She also earned a master’s in communication from SMU and a psychology degree with honors from Northwestern University. Melinda Marcus is in demand as a keynote speaker at national events and is an award winning writer. Her book, Read the Zoom, shows you how to read people in your next meeting. So I know you will join me in welcoming Melinda Marcus.

Hello, Melinda.

Hey, Bill. Thanks for having me.

Oh, absolutely delighted to host you. And at the end of that introduction, and it’s a brief introduction because I know there’s much more that you have qualified in and we could go over, but we needed to get to this instead. At the conclusion of the introduction, we mentioned your book, Read the Zoom. And ironically, it was just this morning I was talking with an executive recruiter friend who’s been an executive recruiter for about three decades. And he was pointing out to me that so many, a large proportion of job interviews now are not taking place on site, but they’re taking place on Zoom, which means that we need to know how to come across in this way that it still remains fairly new. And some of the people who are applying for jobs or who want to host Zoom really have no specialized training in it. So we’re relying on you today for some tips. Tell us how to read the Zoom, please.

Okay. Well, first of all, part of reading the Zoom is that we have this real estate, right, sort of from chest up. And that’s the exact same view we have in person if you’re looking across a conference room table, a desk, or a restaurant table where a lot of business deals and relationships are developed as well. So everything that you’ll learn in the book also applies in person. But the key is, is that there’s a lot of information that’s beyond the words. And that has to do with the nonverbals that will be with what’s going on facial expression, body language, position, whether somebody’s here, here, and what you notice in terms of what triggers the changes. So that can give you a lot of information that they may not volunteer with their words. And those insights can make the difference between if it’s a job interview, gaining consideration, which is what we all want, right, and being tossed aside as not somebody who fits. So it’s a critical piece to pick up how people are responding to what you have to say. So you know when you have buy-in and you know when you have maybe a stress point or objection that you need to overcome.

When you’retraining someone on this, what steps do you take them through? So the first step is I do an assessment by, generally I have not met them before, we may have had just a phone call, and I do an interview with them. And then I do the assessment on what they’re saying in terms of their messaging, their nonverbals, their storytelling, all of those things so that I can help them and we can customize how we do the coaching.

Now I will tell you something kind of exciting: since, obviously, there’s a limit to how many people I can personally coach one-on-one, I’m getting ready to launch an online course that will be modules that’ll take people about 85% of the way there and help a lot more people get jobs than I could touch if I was doing actual engagements with each one of them individually.

Ah, well tell us two things, please. Tell us, first of all, how to access the book, and then also how can we register for this online Zoom training session that you’re talking about?

Okay, well the book, it’s called Read the Zoom. You’ll notice it says Read the Room and Room is crossed out because when I started writing this book, it was before 2020 and COVID, and all of a sudden nobody was in the room. So it became Read the Zoom and you can get it at readthezoom.com. So that’s the only place to buy it. Or if you go to my website, which is influenceadvisors.com, you can also, there’s a link there if you want to go that way. So either of those work.

The course has not launched yet, but I’ve done all the recordings on role-playing with real people who are being interviewed by me, and then I give what they could do to improve and you see the before and after. So that’ll probably launch in, if you’re on LinkedIn, be sure to connect with me because I’m going to probably mainly launch that there and then there’ll be other things, ways to get to it. But that’s the main one I’ll be using is LinkedIn. You can find me under Melinda Marcus and just let me know that you heard me with Bill so that I’ll know who you are.

That sounds fascinating. And one of the items, of course, that you and I have to work with, I’m a speech coach and you’re helping people prepare for presentations of different kinds. One of the items we nearly always have to work with is fear of the camera. People I’ve dealt with, many people on stage fright where we’re facing audiences, but now we have a new fear that has come in and that’s fear of the camera.

And there are a couple of points I make and I’m curious to know how you feel about them:

I say that the camera doesn’t lie so that it’s a good training device. If you were to say to me, if I’d given you a presentation, you say, well, Bill, you did this, this, and this, and I would be thinking or saying, oh, no, I didn’t, but there’s the camera. That’s a different thing. The camera does not lie.

The second point I make is that because the camera does not lie, it also can become reassuring for us because there are so many times that we’re before a camera and we’re thinking, oh, gosh, I’m really blowing it. I’m really goofing it. I’ve made all these mistakes. And then when you play it back, it’s almost benign compared to all the fears that you had.

And, of course, I’ll give another example here. Sometimes when we are on camera, we’re trying to think of what to say, we pause. That pause just seems endless to us. But when we play it back, guess what? It was a couple of seconds and it looked quite natural.

So reflect on those points for me and for us, please. The camera doesn’t lie and it also can have some very positive feedback for us.

I totally agree with that. And that’s particularly if you have permission to record it. Otherwise, while the camera is on you, if it’s not recording, you can’t go back and look at what you did. So I think it’s a great tool. And particularly if you’re going to give a presentation, it’s a nice thing to have a meeting just with yourself and record it so that youcan see what you’re doing and how you’re sounding. And nobody sees it but you. So it’s a great training tool. So I think that’s great. I will say that one of the things that I think is somewhat problematic is since we’ve all been using virtual meetings now for probably since 2020, so we’re going on close to six years, right, in 2026. I think people are a little too casual with what they’re doing on camera. They forgot about the camera, and sometimes they’re just unaware that they’re doing things that are not leaving the best impression because they’re not as, I would say, self-conscious about how they’re coming across as they would be if they were in person in the room.

So you see a lot of times on Zoom, and I’m going to illustrate it for you, where when people are listening, they’re just kind of like, and they don’t realize they’re listening, but it looks like they’re not engaged. It’s not necessarily the most flattering expression on their face. So I like people to be more self-conscious about how they’re coming across. And in virtual meetings, you can see at least a small screen of what you look like. So you want to show engagement. You want to show interest. And those are things that I think are incredibly important.

I also think you need to pay attention to nonverbals, which are not just your face and body. They are also your vocal pattern and what you’re wearing, how your hair looks. All of those things that are appearance-related make a very big impression before you ever open your mouth. And people are at least subconsciously making decisions on whether they can trust you or whether you’re an authority or a leader based on that appearance piece. And I think that you can be a little too casual with that and unnecessarily hurt your image.

Sometimes today I’m thinking you anticipate my questions because you bring up something I know that our audience wants guidance on. We’re all aware of how clothing styles have changed dramatically. I can still remember so well, Melinda, the first time probably 20 or so years ago, the first time I boarded a commercial flight as a passenger and I was not wearing a tie. Because up until that time, practically every professional male was wearing a coat and tie. The trend became so obvious that I said, well, I might as well go with the flow. And even though I had convinced myself that this was the norm now, I felt quite awkward the first few times I did that.

Okay, so here we are talking now about being on Zoom. And there has to be a happy medium there sometime. You don’t have to wear a tux or an evening gown. But what do you advise your clients about their attire?

Well, I think you need to look like an expert in your field. So a lot of times people think, oh, I need to dress to match who I’m talking to in order for people to feel comfortable. But I learned that from the guy who was a sports agent who said, well, my clients are coming in in shorts, but they won’t trust somebody with all their millions of dollars who’s also wearing shorts and looks like them. The whole reason they’re going to a financial expert or an agent is because they know they don’t have that expertise.

So I like to dress somewhat like an expert in the field. And in Zoom or any virtual meeting, Microsoft Teams, whatever you’re using, you know, sometimes people aren’t wearing blazers like I would if I was in person. But I am going to wear a nice shirt, not something that’s a T-shirt with a rock band graphic on it or anything like that. I am generally going to have a little jewelry on there. I am going to make sure my hair looks decent or as decent as I can get my hair to look in the humidity.

But I’ve seen people get so casual that they come on. I was talking to somebody who was a division head and they had a ball cap on. You know, that takes away from your professional image. So I do think we have to have some degree of thinking about what image am I presenting even before I say anything. Because the impression is formed in less than a few seconds. And then everything you say is looked through that lens and interpreted. So it’s important,more important than you might imagine, to look what the role is that you are wanting to get them to hire you for or to engage you for. Years ago, I remember so well, back before I became an entrepreneur, I went on several job interviews as a candidate. I remember calling a colleague who was at an institution where I thought I would like to interview and I wanted his advice. So I drove there dressed about like I am today, I suppose we were meeting for lunch. He shows up in shorts, sandals, and a T-shirt. And I am not a snob by any means, but I’m thinking to myself automatically, he just doesn’t think this is a very important occasion. He has signaled to me that he can be just as casual as he wants and that, and some people might say I was being a little too stern on that, but that was my reaction and that would be my reaction again if I were meeting somebody for a business meeting.

So I’m thinking what you and I are definitely agreeing on that we need to consider Zoom as a business meeting. And it’s not only a business meeting, but for many instances, it is a first business meeting, correct? Absolutely. And I have clients that I’ve coached and they’ve won positions, won just won a position in a global company. It’s a leadership position. They never had an in-person interview. It’s all been virtual because the company is a virtually based company, but a lot of their offices are actually in Europe. So they’re not going to fly somebody over for the interview generally speaking.

So those things are true. You bring up another point, which is let’s say you’re a little overdressed, okay? Let’s just say that that guy’s in shorts and you’re feeling kind of odd. You can always take the blazer off and then you’re kind of almost there, maybe a half step above. But when you’re underdressed, the other person may feel, as I think you did, disrespected. And you can’t make that up. So once that happened, you’ve already lost something in terms of consideration. And that is a bad position to be coming from in business. You want to always come in with them feeling predisposed to liking, respecting, and wanting to do business with you.

So, I mean, that’s just one aspect of nonverbals. There’s a whole lot more we can talk about on facial expressions, body language, even body position that make a difference on how people relate to you and whether or not they trust you and want to actually do business with you. So, you know, these are all things people forget about because they’re just focused on their words and they’re not focused on their body language or the other person’s response to them, which is generally shown in their body language.

Thank you for that. In a minute, we’re going to come back after a brief pause. And when we do, I want to get your feedback on something I read on your LinkedIn profile this morning where you talked about, I guess we could phrase it, the eyes have it because you were contrasting the power of a smile and the message it gives with this messages subliminally almost that the eyes give. We’ll be back with that in just a few seconds.

Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now, 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300.

We’re here with Melinda Marcus on the Biz Communication Show. And justBefore that brief break, I mentioned that just this morning I was looking again at her LinkedIn profile, and there was some exchange of comments between her and what was posted. And one of her comments on that posting was that, yes, sometimes a smile, we can interpret that. But beyond that, Melinda stated that there’s really more opportunity to get accurate messaging from the eyes. Tell us about that, please.

Yeah. So all of us sometimes have what we call in the nonverbal area, we call it a polite smile. So when you’re passing somebody in the hallway that you don’t know, you might just do this kind of smile. So you’ll notice it’s just the mouth that’s involved there. And really all it’s saying is, I mean no harm, right? And as soon as you finish passing that person, that smile comes off your face. So that’s how we know it’s not real joy. It’s just giving a signal that, hey, hi, I’m friendly, right? But it’s not real joy.

So when we want to see real joy, we want to see the eyes engaged and particularly the muscles around the eyes. And that’s when generally a real smile is there. And a real smile doesn’t go and then all of a sudden leave because joy doesn’t just suddenly be there and leave, right? It’s on for longer. So those are all some signals that help tell you when it’s a real happy, positive smile or when it’s just a polite smile that doesn’t really mean too much, particularly in business.

So at the end of a presentation, if you get just a polite smile, it doesn’t mean they liked it or are going to go through with whatever you were offering. It just means they’re being polite. But if you see it’s a real smile, then you’ve probably got some buy-in. And that’s an important thing to know so that you can start working towards the close.

What occurred to me this morning was that in so many gangster movies, you see the gangster wearing sunglasses. And I never thought about it before. Sometimes you think they’re doing it just to look a little sinister. But I’m wondering, are they trying to keep people from seeing what they’re really thinking, which the eyes would reveal? Has that ever occurred to you or not?

Well, it definitely has occurred. What do you think poker players, professional poker players do? Yes. They’re trying to cover as much as they can of any of this real estate because they’re aware that it can give away what they’re thinking or feeling without their knowledge. It leaks out from the unconscious.

And I want to make that distinction. The unconscious happens without your having any knowledge of it. Subconscious are things that you may have that you can retrieve, right? And make it conscious of, you know, why do I feel uncomfortable? Oh, because that guy just did this. You know, that’s a subconscious. Unconscious, you have no idea what’s happening. And the unconscious leaks through our nonverbals what we’re really thinking and feeling.

And poker players whose money and all of their career depends on it, they are trying to limit that exposure because they know no matter how hard they train and want to have a poker face, there are things that will leak out. In fact, it’s not just your face that leaks things. It’s your hands, how you actually put your bet down. They’ve done analysis and research on that. It can be very revealing on whether you’re bluffing or not. So those are all things that some people can control, but most people cannot control. And that’s why they try and obscure anything that will help you get the read.

If any of our viewers and listeners remember the performing group, the Eagles, they will remember you can’t hide those lion eyes. So fascinating.

We have time for one more question for you to share your professional insights on. It’s something that you and I just happen to both believe in very affirmatively. And that’sthe power of self-talk. I noticed that in some of the research I did. And talk to us about our self-talk, how that influences both our attitude and our behavior. Well, in order to help my clients that I work with in a one-on-one consultive coaching basis, I always spend at least in a week 20, 25% of my time auditing research that could be helpful.

One of those is what Bill was just talking about, is on positive self-talk. And what I found is in the training of Navy SEALs and also elite athletes that are going to be Olympic contenders, they found that if each of those individuals, when really facing a challenge and are feeling maybe a little bit insecure, will just tell themselves, “you’ve got this,” but not only saying it, but saying it in third person. So in other words, for me, I would say, “Melinda, you’ve got this.” And I might even pat myself on the arm. And the brain receives that as if somebody else is encouraging us. So that can really be helpful. And they found that it has positively impacted the results and helped people over their anxieties to be able to achieve things at the very highest level. So I encourage you to try it. I am with you 100% on that.

I go back a long way to when I first read Shad Helmstetter’s book, What to Say When You Talk to Yourself. And I read not too long ago, I’ve been a lifelong golfer. And I remember reading where Jack Nicklaus said, “I never made a putt that I thought I was going to miss.” So what we tell ourselves, and as you say, really convince ourselves of, determines the outcome. Henry Ford, “if you think you can or you can’t, you’re right.” And that’s very valuable.

Melinda, this has just been fascinating. And I know there are those who will want to get in touch with you. So please share with us your contact information.

Great. So the best ways to contact me is if you’re on LinkedIn, look up Melinda Marcus and connect with me and let me know that you heard this podcast. Otherwise, you can go to my site, and that’s Influence Advisors. That’s with an S at the end of that, influenceadvisors.com. And there’s a form there. You can always contact me there. And I look at those and respond to every one of them. So those are two great ways to contact me. Thank you.

Thank you. And I know also, and we haven’t mentioned this, this wasn’t in the introduction, but you are a very popular keynote speaker. You speak at conferences and conventions and associations. So I know our viewers and listeners will want to keep that in mind.

And now that you’ve given your contact information, I am happy to give mine. My YouTube channel, my moniker is The Biz Communication Guy. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been recording instructional videos since the year 2007. Now, I don’t want you to go back and look at any of those first ones, because as we said earlier, the camera doesn’t lie. But in recent years, much of the instruction that I’ve given on there has been through The Biz Communication Show with wonderful, well-informed guests, Melinda being one of them, fortunately, today.

And while you’re there, of course, I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. And then bizcommunicationguy.com, quite logically, is my website. And when you’re there, you can subscribe to the podcast. As you know, this is both a video interview and a podcast as well. I would be very happy to talk with business leaders and future business leaders about your communication challenges and problems. And so you can give me a no-obligation phone call at 678-316-4300. Again, no obligation on an initial call.

II want to give credit to the co-producer of my program, Mike Stewart. Mike Stewart, you’ll see his website. localinternetpresence.com. Any of us who have been entrepreneurs for quite a while have a few people that we have relied on repeatedly and endlessly. And Mike Stewart, based in Nashville, has been one of my most important mentors and strategists in marketing and technology since 1997. That wasn’t yesterday. So I encourage you to get in touch with Mike.

And I’d like to say, Melinda, with everything that we’ve said, some wonderful gems there for our audience. In half a minute or a minute, how would you pull together what you want to leave with us? Well, I think it gets summarized by this: If you really want to be successful, you really need to look beyond the words because people don’t always tell you what they’re really thinking or feeling. So it’s critical, I think, to tap into understanding body language, both yours and how to read theirs, and also brain science. What are some of the things going on in that subconscious and unconscious that could help you or hurt you?

So things that you can learn that tend to fast track trust and fast track people feeling good about you so that you can gain consideration. Don’t just think it’s about the words. That’s the number one mistake I see anyone in business make is they think the decisions are going to be on words and facts. And actually, we know through research it’s made on emotions and perception. And so it’s very, very important to look beyond the words.

Yes, Melinda, not only from research, but certainly from personal experience. There’s so many instances each one of us has every week where somebody tells us something, but we get other messages instead, which can be conflicting.

Melinda Marcus, thank you so much again for being with us. You are an incredible resource in the area of nonverbal communication. And I encourage people to get your book. I encourage people to get in touch with you and certainly to benefit from your services.

Thanks so much, Bill. Thank you. And thanks to those of you who joined us on video and also on the podcast. We invite you to be with us again next week for another highly informative and engaging guest on the Biz Communication Show. I’m Bill Lampton, your guest, the Biz Communication Guy. Thank you.

Hi there and welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, bringing you tips and strategies that will boost your business. And those tips and strategies are not from me alone. They are instead from a lively and highly informative conversation I have with a business communication expert.

And today coming to us from Gainesville, Georgia, my home base, my office base, Stacey Reece. He’s a former franchise owner of Sphereon Staffing and Recruiting located in Gainesville, Georgia. Sphereon has served Northeast Georgia since 1997. Reece said he strived during his 28 year tenure as market owner to provide the job seeker with the best interview experience possible through providing individual resume design, pre-interview coaching and post-interview follow up.

Prior to opening Sphereon, Stacey Reece was a vice president with First National Bank of Gainesville for over 13 years. During his banking tenure, Reece held several positions, including branch manager as well as consumer division project manager. As division project manager, Reece was charged with creating cost cutting initiatives while improving the customer experience.

Stacey Reece received his BBA in 1987 from the University of North Georgia. And in 1992, he graduated from the UGA Georgia Banking School. Reece has served on numerous community boards and civic organizations during the past three decades. Most notably, Stacey Reece is a former member of the Georgia House of Representatives, having served from 2002 to 2007. He had a leadership role that allowed him the privilege to cast votes in 32 standing committees.

Stacey Reece continues to remain active in Georgia politics, doing grassroots advocacy for community organizations. Reece and his wife, Dr. Mandy Reece, reside in Gainesville, Georgia. They have two adult children and two grandchildren.

So I know that you’ll join me in welcoming Stacey Reece.

Hello, Stacey.

Hello, Bill. How are you today?

I’m absolutely delighted to have another conversation with you. I’ve followed your career, as you know, for three decades. And in addition to that, I’m fortunate to have a friendship with you and your wife, Mandy. So it’s could we call it old home week?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And thank you for asking me to come back. I was looking at my notes and realized we were together in 2018. And I’m like, wow, how does time fly?

Yes, time does fly for sure.

One thing that all of us know is that when we’re talking about job interviewing, there’s been a lot of attention given to the job candidate, what the job candidate should do, how they should dress, how they should sit, how they should walk, how should they talk. And yet you’re in a position to give us some information about the job interviewer. And I see a vast gap there. I know that we need that information.

Why, for example, would you say to start with is the job interviewer overlooked or neglected or not talked about?

I think, Bill, it goes back many, many decades. It goes back to where when someone was applying for a job, it was viewed that they had a need. That need was they needed a job. So the interviewer didn’t really have to sell themselves to the person that they wereinterviewing. So they could just, in most any case, just do whatever they wanted to do during the interview. But about 10 years ago, that started to change. People started to have options, and if you were fortunate enough as an interviewer to have someone apply for a role that you had open, you needed to be able to impress them as well.

Okay. These interviews, unless they are online, which many are, but let’s talk about the interviews that are live and in person, and that has become more the norm since COVID is no longer putting us in isolation. One of the first keys that an interviewer needs to think about and have good tips and strategies about is the setting itself, because we all know that places talk, places give messages just as well as people do.

What advice will you give interviewers about the setting so that it will be, let’s say, for example, welcoming and not threatening? What advice do you give along those lines?

So we always attempted to create what I call a very comfortable, neutral environment to conduct interviews in. Usually it was done in a conference room. The conference room was well lit. The furniture was modern, and we would always have at least water sitting around that we could offer the candidate that we were interviewing. I like that because then you’re not interviewing from your personal office.

And I was taught many years ago in sales classes that when you got the privilege to enter someone’s office to maybe present your services, that you should start reading the room immediately and learning as much as you can about that person. So I always preferred to be in a neutral environment, and that’s why I refer to it, Bill, as a neutral environment. Before that candidate learns about me, I want them to see me and hear me and have a conversation with me that’s very neutral.

And my office was my home away from home. I spent more time in my office than I really did here in this study or in my own living room. So I wanted my office to be decorated in a way that represented me. And I don’t always want people to know who I am right out of the gate because I have opinions of things. And often I have to first let people meet me and learn that even though our opinions may be different, I’m very open minded about their opinions, which is a great segue into what you and I have talked off a lot about some, and that is what about when interviewers and interviewees have difference of opinions that really aren’t job related?

And that’s something I have seen a lot of over the years. I would have people tell me when they interviewed one of our candidates, well, I don’t think they’re a good fit. And I’d be like, well, why? Why are they not a good fit? Well, they’re just not. And I’m like, well, I need more feedback because if you want me to recruit for your opening, I’ve got to understand where I’m missing the target on this individual. Because if they were not qualified, I wouldn’t have recommended you set up an interview. We just have difference of opinions.

And I said, well, share more about that with me. And as they began to share those differences of opinions, I’m like, okay, how does that prohibit the individual you interviewed from conducting the job that you’re wanting to hire them to do? And they’d look at me and they’d think a minute and they’d be like, well, it really doesn’t. And I said, well, then why would you not want to continue forward with this? Because it doesn’t sound like that your differences have anything to do with their capability of doing you a fabulous job. It sounds like it’s just that maybe you don’t agree with their philosophy or maybe their outlook on life.

I think that what you have just said is even more prevalent now than when you first instituted that practice, which is a very good one. Becauseif anything among the people you know and I know, there’s a lot of polarization. But does that polarization mean that somebody couldn’t do work for and with a person that they differ so much with?

And then I’d like to really commend you on that, what to me is novel and new, and that is having the interview in a neutral site. Because as you said very clearly, when the candidate comes in, the candidate, if they have any alertness at all, if they’re in your regular office, they’re going to get, as you said, a lot of clues about you.

And in my professional life, for many years, if I would get to someone’s office that I was going to have a business appointment with, and the receptionist said, well, he or she is not here yet. Would you like to stay here in the reception room? Or do you want to go into the office? I always took the choice of going into the office. Why? Because here on display would be that person’s hobbies, their families, their awards, their memberships. And so you had starting points to talk with.

But I think your approach is that you want to know more about the candidate than the candidate knows about you. Is that the way I’m seeing it?

It is, yes. Yes. I want to know what that candidate is thinking. I want to know what their qualifications are, not just what they turned in on paper. Because people can embellish on paper, but once you start having a dialogue with them, and I like to use the word as an interviewer, I’m having a dialogue. I’m not saying I’m going to ask you a series of questions. I’m going to have a discussion with you. I want to see how well you can communicate with me so that I’ll know how well you’re going to communicate with my managers or my clients or my other employees.

And I’ve always been in a role where communication is extremely important. In fact, the roles I’ve had in life, if you could not communicate well, you would not have succeeded in the roles that I’ve enjoyed over 30-plus years.

Well, you know that I say amen to that because communication has been not only my focus professionally, but to me, the interpersonal relationships we have. And when you go to networking events, don’t be there just because of what somebody might can do for you, but go there to establish relationships.

Something that you mentioned a while back to me was that the interviewer has certain legal restrictions on what can be asked of the candidate, what they can ask the candidate. And so what happens if a candidate is well-informed and knows those, what happens if a candidate finds the interviewer getting a little shady on them, maybe not asking the question that they can’t ask directly, but doing it rather subtly? How can graciously an interviewer work through that or around it?

Yeah, well, and you can come at different angles on this. You can come at the angle that if you’re a great communicator, you can sit there and have a dialogue with a candidate, and you can ask little questions, and once they answer that one little question, you can do a follow-up, and you just keep asking, and you just keep asking, and they’re giving you all this information.

And a candidate can share anything they want to with you, and once they’ve shared it, then you have that as knowledge. And although they may reveal things that would not be reasons that you would not legally be able to not hire them, but in any industry, anyone interviewing, when you follow up as a candidate and say, hey, have you made a decision? Well, we had more qualified candidates, and we’vegone with another individual. That’s all that an employer has to share back with someone that has applied for a role. They do not have to give them any detailed feedback at all. So that’s one avenue.

The other avenue is that interviewer that just blatantly asked inappropriate questions. And that inappropriate question could be, you know, let’s assume someone has some form of hand injury and they said, well, what happened to your hands? You know? Well, you know, I injured it. Well, gosh, how did you injure it? I hope you didn’t do it at work. And that’s what you have to be careful of because then you’re branching into medical history, which technically is not part of the initial interview process. However, it is valid to the interview, but the way it’s set up today through EEOC regs and rules is, you know, you go through the whole interview process and then you get to the point of making a job offer and you ask, is there any reason you would have any physical limitations in being able to perform these job duties? Well, if you have a hand injury and it’s maybe a permanent hand injury and you’re going to be on an assembly line, how am I as an employer going to be able to accommodate your disability on an assembly line? Yes. So it is a valid question. It’s just not questions that you ask on the front end.

And a lot of people don’t realize this, but an employer cannot do any form of background research on you. When I say background, I’m talking about criminal, credit, medical, until they extend the job offer to you and you accept it. And then they’re extending that job offer to you conditional of drug screens, maybe a medical exam, maybe even a credit check. And that’s why it’s important that you tell people you’re interviewing that when you establish the interview with them, that if you proceed forward before you’re actually able to begin in the position, you would have those background screens done. That way, if there’s a legitimate reason they need to give you information on the front end, it might save you and them both time.

But it is a bit frustrating for interviewers to go all the way through this process and get to, and sometimes it’s two and three interviews to get through the process, make the job offer, only to find out there’s activities on the criminal background check or they don’t pass a drug screen. We’ve even had clients tell us, please just quit giving drug screens. We’ll deal with it down the road. And we don’t like doing that because that was our reputation at Sirion is that the candidates we sent you to go to work for you were fully background checked and passed everything that needed to be passed in order to provide you with the highest quality candidate.

Well, thank you for that sequence because I would have assumed, as many of our viewers and listeners would have assumed, I think that background checks could be done before the initial interview. No, no. Now, I have had interviewers say, hey, we do background checks. Is there anything you would want to share with us at this point before we go any further? I don’t feel that that’s inappropriate to ask. I think it’s all how you ask it, though. It needs to be asked in a very positive, professional manner. And if I did ask that question, I often did it to where I was saying I’m protecting your time as a job candidate to make sure that we don’t waste your time when we could redirect you and send you another direction.

Stacey, you said something a few minutes ago that I applaud and endorse, and that is where you talked about the job interview. You don’t like to refer to it as an interview, but as a dialogue. And in fact, that’s what I call this biz communication show. I don’t call it an interview. I call it a conversation with a highly qualified guest.

In just a few seconds, we’re going to come back and we’re going to have you give us a tip on who has the percentage of talking in an interview. What percentageis the interviewer talking and what percentage is the interviewee? As a interviewee. We’ll get to that in just a few seconds. Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now, 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300.

Stacey, when we were talking about topics we wanted to cover today, this was one that you mentioned, and that is the percentage of time that the interviewer talks, the percentage of time that the interviewee talks, and I don’t know if you can give us exact percentages, but what are your recommendations along that line?

Well, before we address that, I would like to bring to the audience’s attention that there are multiple stages of an interview, and back when I was beginning my career as a branch manager, if I had openings, you know, I called the personnel director, they put out a posting, they may have put an ad in the classified local newspaper section, and those people would be brought in not to HR, but sent directly to me, and then I would decide whether to hire them or not. But that’s changed over the years. You now have your human resource director or even a chief human resource officer in an organization, and they have large staffs, they have recruiters, and when you have an opening now, you send in a request to refill the position, and they actually do a lot of the interviewing for you. And by doing all that interviewing, by the time the person gets to you, that recruiter is assuming, well, you’re just going to hire this individual. So now there may be people doing that final interview that really aren’t trained and skilled on interviewing. So they’re just kind of, I hate to use the word shooting from the hip, but that’s kind of what they’re doing.

And now to answer your question about the percentage of talk time, I think those highly skilled recruiters are great at listening, they’re great at engaging the candidate into conversation, they’re taking bullets that they have about the position and letting that individual talk about how they can accomplish that. But then often when it gets out to that line leader or that office manager for a final interview, they do all the talking. They may tell you everything that was wrong with the person that had the position before you. They may tell you everything they want to do differently with the position going forward. They may ask you, where have you done similar work? But once they ask you that question, before you can answer them, they start asking you another question. So I think large and small business both struggle in those final interviews because those people often are not trained at all to do interviews. They’re just told, you need to meet this individual, see if you think they’re a good fit for your department or not.

That reminds me of another question. This will be our final question that we have time to discuss. And you alluded to it a little bit there. What would you say are some of the most offensive habits that interviewers might have?

Not paying attention to when the candidate is answering their questions.

Or maybe they’ve been asked to elaborate on something and the interviewer all of a sudden turns and looks away and looks at an email and then turns and looks back and is engaged and then hears something outside the door and they’ll turn and look outside the door.

But I remember having a candidate share with me that they really liked the place we had sent them to do an interview. They were very interested in working for that company, but they said it was a bit uncomfortable that the interviewer sat there the whole time behind their desk shakingtheir knee and the interviewer’s knee was hitting the drawer that had pens and pencils in it. You could hear them clanking. And because we, as a recruiting company, we would always ask the candidate, tell us about your experience. Because if they shared with us great experiences, we shared that with our client. If they shared with us some concerns, then we went to our client and said, these are some concerns that were brought to our attention. And it may impact the ability for you to fill your positions if these things aren’t corrected in the interview process.

It brings to mind something that I probably have tried to forget. Right during my days in higher education, I went to a university to be interviewed. And when I was brought into the interviewer’s office, the one who was entitled to hire me, he spent the first one minute, I guess, reading over some material on his desk. And he looked at me and said, I’ll be with you as soon as I finish this. Well, I had, unfortunately, two days of interviews lined up there. I couldn’t afford a flight back on my own. But instantly I knew if this interviewer, this college administrator wouldn’t give me that much attention and courtesy during the opening meeting with them, what in the heck would it be like later on? And it’s a good thing I did some acting in college because I had to act for the next two days as though I were interested in everybody that I talked to. And that flight home certainly looked good.

I understand. Yes. Wow. You know, it’s such an important role to be an interviewer. And some individuals will utilize professional recruiters because they realize that’s not what they’re talented at. And a lot of business owners like to cut costs and not have to pay recruiters to do work that they feel like their managers should be able to do. But their managers are in charge of managing people, producing a product, getting a service out and completed. Interviewing takes a lot of time if you do it effectively. And, you know, even internally when we had to hire new recruiters, you know, I had staff that would take and meet with maybe seven or eight people and boil it down to the best two and have me meet with the very best two. But that still took two or three hours of my time during the day, which took me off the road selling during that time. But it was time well invested, wasn’t it? It is.

I will say one thing I don’t like in an interview process unless it’s really at the final stage and basically both parties have agreed that if a job’s offered, they will accept it. I don’t like lunch interviews or dinner interviews.

Why is that?

Well, one, they’re expensive. Two, too much can go wrong on either party’s part. And if you’re doing a lunch or a dinner interview, I strongly suggest nobody gets alcohol, even the interviewer. The interviewer may think it’s perfectly fine to order that glass of wine or it may be let’s see how everybody is in a casual setting. A casual setting will have very little to do with your job performance long term, but something could go wrong in that setting that could keep you from getting the job or it could even something happen from an interviewer standpoint that keeps the person from accepting the job. I think that’s a very important addition because what’s the saying during World War II, loose lips sink ships? And we might think we’re in full control of what we’re saying, but then again, what if we get a little bit giddy?

Yes. Stacey, this has been just as I anticipated, a highly informative, enjoyable, and helpful conversation, not an interview. I know that there are people who would like to get in touch with you to tap more of your expertise. What’s your contact information, please?

Well, now that I have sold my business, I’m working out of my home office, as you can see here, but I canbe reached by my mobile phone. I’m still old fashioned. I will answer my phone if you give me a call or you can text me 770-540-0388, or you can shoot me an email at stacyReece at charter.net. Thank you for those.

And now that you’re given your contact information, I’m happy to give mine:

My YouTube channel: Bill Lampton, PhD. This is the eighth year, Stacey, of the Biz Communication Show. So there are eight years of conversations that if you tune in and hear those experts that I’ve hosted, you will undoubtedly strengthen your business skills. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel.

My website: Since my moniker is the Biz Communication Guy, my website logically is bizcommunicationguy.com. While you’re there, there’s an opportunity to sign up for the podcast.

Phone calls: Like Stacey, I will welcome phone calls, no obligation, no initial fee, just exploring what your communication challenges and problems are. My number is 678-316-4300.

Before I close, I want to give great credit to the co-producer of this show, Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville. Mike Stewart and I met in 1997, and ever since then, he’s been my marketing and technology expert and a very valuable one. His website is localinternetpresence.com. I encourage you to get in touch with Mike.

Stacey, what a fascinating time we’ve had. If you could leave us in 30 seconds or a minute with what kind of gems should we take away from the conversation you and I have had?

Well, I would like to speak to the interviewers for just a moment and make sure and I share this with all emphasis on making interviewers aware that the candidate is also interviewing them. That candidate is trying to make a decision. Not only do I want to work in this industry, do I want to associate my name with this company, but will I be able to work with this individual that’s sitting across this table or desk from me?

So as an interviewer, I encourage you to be willing to answer questions about yourself and your organization that a candidate may ask you. There’s no reason in hiring someone that’s not going to do you a great job, but at the same time, you will save that candidate a great amount of stress and anguish if you’re able to answer their questions so that they can make a fair choice just as much as you want to make a fair choice.

Well said. Thank you again, Stacey Reece, for being our guest today. Thanks to those of you who joined us on the video portion and to those who were with us on the podcast. Be with us every week for the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, welcoming you the next time as well.

Hi there, welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy, bringing you tips and strategies about communication that will boost your business. And I don’t do this alone. It’s not just my communication tips and strategies, but you get much more through my conversation with a highly qualified guest.

And today our guest is indeed highly qualified, coming to us from the Atlanta metropolitan area, Domenica Davis. Domenica Davis is an experienced broadcast meteorologist, reporter, host, and on-camera coach. She has worked nationally for NBC, Fox, News Channel, MSNBC, and the Weather Channel. And by now, I’ll bet you, Domenica Davis’ name and image rings a bell with you because like me, you probably have watched her for more than two decades.

Currently, Domenica freelances as a meteorologist for 11 Live in Atlanta, and she runs On Cam with Domenica, a coaching business dedicated to helping on-air talent elevate their performance, build confidence, and develop the skills needed to succeed in both traditional and digital media. So I know that you join me in welcoming Domenica Davis.

Hello, Domenica.

Hello. How are you?

I’m just doing very well now that I’m going to have a delightful conversation with you that informs, educates, and knowing you, entertains as well.

Well, it’s an honor to be here. Thank you.

It’s an honor to host you. At the outset, I’m sure there are many people who wonder, those of us who have watched meteorologists for years, we wonder, how did you get there? I mean, some of us are thinking, oh, this is a nice-looking person. I guess they won a talent contest somewhere with their speaking. A talent scout from TV saw them, hired them, and the next thing you know, we’re seeing them pointing at maps.

That’s not exactly how it happens, is it, Domenica?

No. Not for me, no. I’ve never won any contest. So the way I got into it many moons ago was I went to college knowing that I wanted to be a reporter. So I knew I wanted to be in broadcast news. I thought I wanted to be an anchor and a reporter, and that’s really why I graduated from Boston University. So that’s really what I went to college for.

After I graduated college, my very first job was in traffic. I did live traffic, and it included weather, but it was like a rip-and-read weather. You didn’t really do weather. So I got my first agent at the time, and he said, hey, did you ever think of going into meteorology? I said, no, never. And so he said, I think you’d be great.

Reporters, anchors are a dime a dozen. Meteorologists, it’s a degree thing. You’d have to go back to school, but they really need women in this field. I think you’d be great at it. And if you have an interest, I mean, I think this is something you should pursue.

So I was never caught in a tornado. I don’t have any of those stories. I was kind of introduced to it really in a strategic manner career-wise. Lucky for me, I actually really liked it. So I got into it in a really weird, backwards way that most people don’t. But it really worked out for me, and I went to Mississippi State to get my degree, and I worked while I was doing that.

So I’ve always been a reporter and a meteorologist for many years before I just strictly did meteorology on TV. And that’s really how I got in. It’s not that entertaining atall, but it’s my story, and it’s true.

I mentioned to you as we were getting acquainted before the program that I’m a Mississippian native. I realized just a few years ago how many people that I see who are meteorologists are graduates of the program at Mississippi State. Something I would like to just throw in here is that there are many of us who’ve been on this earth a while, who lived here before weather forecasting got so scientific and for the most part excellent in accuracy and in forecasting.

And at that time, Domenica, I was on the University of Georgia faculty. The only warning we would get about any bad weather coming was probably just somebody interrupting a local radio program. So I remember so well that living in Athens, Georgia, the place you don’t think of necessarily for violent storms, you think of it for the university and football. But this one day my wife was coming home from work. She walked into the house, we looked out back and a tree was swaying in the wind and we said that’s nothing. Next thing we knew the house was shaking. Our neighbor’s roof came off. We had all of this with no warning. And my daughters, I guess it’s one of the few times I ever lied to them. They said, Daddy, are we going to die? And I said, No. It seemed like we would. Amazingly, there were six homes in our subdivision that were destroyed and also in one other subdivision in Athens. And ironically, exactly 60 days later, again without warning, two tornadoes hit those same neighborhoods.

So having been around on this earth before we got all the warnings that we get now and the advice on what to do, I have an appreciation for weather forecasters, meteorologists that some people who are more recent on this earth would not have.

Now you’re into coaching broadcasters, meteorologists now. How did you happen to get into that? What was your purpose? And what do you want to accomplish in doing that?

Well, I coach not just meteorologists, but anybody, digital content creators, anchors. So not just meteorologists. But the purpose that I wanted to get into that was it was the next logical step in my career. It’s something that I was doing kind of here and there with people that would reach out to me and ask, like, hey, can you take a look at my tape or can you help me with this or just starting out in the business? So mentoring is really how it started. And I loved it. And I was giving a lot of time to it because I wanted to. It was one of those things that I was just spending a lot of time, you know, with certain people that would reach out to me, reviewing their staff, sending them notes, talking to them.

And I thought, you know, this is just really something that is such a good fit for me. It makes me feel like I’m doing something. I’m giving back. And I’ve had help along the way. I’ve had coaches. Not, you know, I’ve had coaches like, you know, that stage is higher that a lot of times I felt like did more discouraging than they did lifting you up and teaching you and pushing you forward. And I just I just saw I just I just felt I don’t know. It just it was just the greatest fit for me. And I thought I can make such a difference in people that actually need somebody who supports them, not there to criticize them or make them feel bad for being new at something and learning it.

And it’s just something that as the years went on, I decided I wanted to devote more and more time to. And I feel now it’s it’s it’s so fulfilling. It’s so fulfilling. And it’s really what gets me up in the morning. I love being I loveTV. I love broadcasting. I love broadcasting. But this is the next logical thing for me to do. It’s just a great way to give back and encourage people that are coming up. behind me to keep pushing. Everybody’s so great, especially in this day and age where we live in a playback era, right? So everybody can review their tapes. Everybody can practice on camera. You don’t need to be in a studio anymore to develop your skills. Do it with your camera, yes. But what people do need is encouragement. That’s what they do need. They need encouragement. They need practical skills. They need all those things. They need to be told that being you is okay. That’s actually what you need to do is be you. So that’s what they need. They don’t need the technical things anymore. They need the encouragement to be them. And that’s what makes great.

One of the things I noticed among the items that you help broadcasters with, many who have wanted to be on the big screen, believe that when they go on there, they have to develop instantly a, quote, broadcast voice. And so the guys try to boom away and it does not become the winning voice because it’s not their voice. How do you convince someone you’re working with on that? And what training do you give them to say, hey, your natural voice is what everybody wants?

Well, we all cringe at our own voice, right? We’ve all heard our voice. I still do it. I’ll watch this podcast back. Oh, my God, my voice. We all cringe at our natural voice, and that’s normal. The more you hear it, you get over it, right? It’s just my voice. Now, it’s hard sometimes to convince people not to do that, especially college kids, kids that are, you know, working at their college television station and they’re getting ready to go into to look for their first job. They’re going into the real world, so to speak. That’s always my hardest to convince them to be them because they are, you know, when you’re young, you’re insecure, and it’s much easier for me to pretend I’m you than to pretend I’m me. And they’re also very impressive, not just impressive stories. Yes, right. So they think they have to make up for that by they’re sort of just playing the role. They’re not being the role. They’re just playing it. So they’re developing some character and then going with that. So I find it the hardest with the kids that are the students are just graduating and going into the business.

But what we work on, you know, it’s we work on talking normal. We work on using our voice and being comfortable and recording it and all the reasons of how that sounds better. We do a lot of playback. We do a lot of comparison. And it’s almost like I have to prove to them that their voice, when we hear it, we do a lot of, okay, listen to this. Now listen to this. Now just read it to me like you were reading it to a friend. Totally informal. You don’t even have to read it. Just paraphrase it. But just now talk like you were going to talk to a friend. And we go back and forth and they always go, oh, yeah, that does sound better. I’m like, right? Didn’t you pay attention more? Like it was so much more engaging. So we do a lot of that. And it’s, you know, it’s really a coach. And I have a lot of skills and we go over a lot of techniques and we do a lot of exercise. We cover a lot of ground in our hour that we meet together with my clients. But a lot of it is getting them to trust themselves and be comfortable. And that’s really a lot of the work. But, yeah, I mean, we do it and it’s great and it’s so rewarding. Oh, I love it. It never gets old to me.

One of the great, I’m in many ways our careers parallel, even though I’m not on television because I’m a professional speech coach. And that’s one of the points also that I work with clients to getacross. And there’s an instance that I usually share with my clients and they may not even remember the name Charles Kuralt, but there was an evening when I was working on the staff of an organization where we brought in Charles Kuralt as a keynote speaker. I spent probably a very enjoyable one hour getting acquainted with him. He had to go out and smoke a couple of times, and I’d walk out with him.

What I’ve used often in talking about using your own natural voice is that when Charles Kuralt, one of the most renowned broadcasters in television history, stepped to the microphone, he sounded exactly the same. No change at all in the tone, the enunciation, the animation, exactly the same as he did before he stepped behind the camera. And that is what you and I like to achieve with clients, isn’t it?

Yeah, and you know what? We’re talking about not… But I just want to point this out because voice is probably the number one thing that I work on. It’s the common thread pretty much with everybody. At some point in our sessions, we’re going to tap into the voice and how to make it richer. Now, everybody can make their voice richer, right?

And really when we do voice work, voice work goes to pacing, it goes to pausing. A lot of people, they are running out of breath while they’re talking. And that’s because they’re not pacing themselves. They’re not breathing. Basically, they just stop breathing. So then they’re talking and then they have to gasp, right? Or they take a big, deep swallow. That’s another sign that they’ve just lost their breath. So that goes into voice.

But I always have to tell people, we’re not changing your voice, we’re controlling your voice. Two different things. When you learn to play with your voice, you can do anything in broadcasting. It’s actually a really great trick and it’s really fun. Now, if I can control my voice, I can go up, I can go down, I can emphasize, I can pause for effect. I can make you pay attention to what I’m saying without you looking at the camera, right? My voice is controlling how you’re listening to me.

And so we do a lot of that. So it’s, you know, what we do with a lot of my clients is we all tend to talk through our throat. I’m talking through my throat right now. Right? It’s our everyday conversation. We just kind of talk through here. But if I talk through my diaphragm and I connect it, didn’t you notice how I’m slowing down? I’m automatically talking slower. It’s forcing me to pause.

And I’m a really fast talker and now I’m going back to my throat. So it’s like engaging your stomach and that’s really where you want to draw from when you’re in front of the camera or doing a presentation or in real life too. You can do it in real life all the time if you want. And some people are really good at, they talk strictly from their diaphragm. I don’t. But I know how to and I know why I need to because it automatically makes me slow down. It makes my brain, my brain’s ahead of my mouth when I do it that way. It makes my voice richer. All those things and I’m not just sitting here talking through my throat.

So these are all the things that we develop and why it’s important is not because I want your voice to sound different. It’s because I want your voice to be in control. And therein lies the difference.

There’s a comparison I think you probably have used sometime. And when I’m working with a speech coaching client, I ask them, have you ever heard somebody play chopsticks? And they said, well, yes, maybe I played it myself as a kid. Okay, how many keys are in chopsticks? And I believe I remember it’s 11 keys it takes to play it. How many keys are there on the piano? There are 88. Well, wouldn’t you be bored if somebody just played chopsticks the entire time that they were with you? Yes, they’ve just stuck on those notes. Well, if somebody’s speaking to you or you’re speakingto somebody, you’ve got 88 notes that you can use. And that comparison often clicks with them that we’ve got a wide range and as you said, volume, pitch, pauses, and so many of our novice presenters are afraid to pause. They want to rush ahead. We’re going to come back in just a few seconds. We’re going to talk about another specialty of yours in your coaching of broadcasters and that’s ad-libbing. We’ll be back in just a few seconds.

Do you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive in sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton. He spent 20 years in management so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to call the Biz Communication Guy today for a no-cost but very valuable 30-minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300.

Domenico, when I watch weather forecasters, reporters, meteorologists, sometimes if we’re in the time when a big weather front is approaching, the forecaster meteorologist might stay on the air consecutively. I’ve seen it go for 20 or 30 minutes in a crisis situation. Now, those of us who are viewers, can we think this is something they just memorized and they’re regurgitating that or they have a script over here someplace? No, none of those. You’ve got to be in the moment.

How do you work with your clients to teach them to ad-lib, to get away from a script, to put yourself into it in your own interpretations? Well, the weather is never a script. Never. So even when you’re just doing a regular forecast, it’s never. There’s never a script. Your script are your graphics behind you, right? So we start there. So for meteorologists, but even for anchors, reporters, reporters ad-lib. So when you see a reporter, especially a live reporter, and they come to you at the beginning and introduce what they’re about to, and then you go to a package, what is called a package, it’s a taped piece that they’ve recorded, but those ins and outs where they say hello and goodbye, those are ad-lib. And usually it intros a story and outros it. So there’s some sort of anchoring. There’s some sort of fact on each end that they’re going to give you. And that’s ad-lib. That’s not scripted because they don’t have the means to script it. There’s no prompter there. So there’s a lot of aspects of news and broadcasting these days where you’re just using ad-lib.

And it goes back to being prepared. People think ad-lib is just you speak off the cuff. No. It’s a terrible way to get into it. Nothing should ever just be a stream of consciousness. We should always be prepared. So you can, just because you’re not writing something down or you’re not reading it, doesn’t mean it’s not prepared in your head. So you have to get organized. You have to know what you want to say. And the more you do it, the quicker you can get at putting those pieces together in your head. But you’re always having some sort of outline. So you’re never just going into something blind, right, without thinking about what you want to say.

And I always tell people with ad-libbing, it’s not the words. A lot of people, they’ll make a mistake of, they’ll memorize a little script, right? So they’ll say, okay, so I want to, this is going to be my intro to this story. There were three men, you know, that were accused of robbing. They’re now at the county courthouse and whatever, all those facts. They’ll memorize it and then they memorize it in their head and then they regurgitate it and speed through it. Well, that’s just memorization and then regurgitating it. So often they’re going too fast. They’re saying it with no sort of meaning behind it because they’re just trying to get through it.

So the trick with ad-libbing is being prepared and being prepared on the idea and what’s the point of what you’re saying. And when you get to what the point of what you’re saying is and what the takeaway is, you don’t have to worry about the words. The words will come. You’ve been speakingyour whole life. The words will come. You don’t have to train your brain to give the words. You have to train your brain to figure out what is the point. So that’s when you go into weather, when you’re anything. What is the point of what I’m saying? The words will come. So you’re kind of it’s a very intentional. It’s very intentional. You’re just you’re not just babbling on like I am right now. Right. I’m just kind of rambling on. But when you’re so that that’s really we work on a lot of that and pausing.

It all goes back to the same things. Pausing is huge when you’re ad libbing because you have to stop and think of what you’re saying. So you’re not rambling. So that pause becomes even more effective. You have to take a minute. So your brain is ahead of your mouth. If your mouth is ahead of your brain, you’re just stumbling all over the place. And I can always tell when somebody’s mouth is ahead of their brain or when my mouth is ahead of my brain, because I’ll just start stumbling. And then, you know, that’s your cue. Stop and pause. Let your brain catch up. Your brain needs to go before. But it’s that feeling, especially when people are ad libbing or they’re nervous. It becomes so hard to take a break because you’re just trying to get through it, which is normal and natural. And we all have moments where we’re doing that, right? We’re just trying to get through something. I don’t care how much of a pro you are. Everybody still has moments where you’re uncomfortable with something, a topic or whatever, and you’re just trying to get through it. So those things will happen. But it’s recognizing when it’s happening to you, how to stop it and control it. And nine times out of ten, stop talking and breathe. Just take a pause. It’s not going to be offensive.

Let’s take a pause right now. A couple of things I would. Right, because it was a two second pause. It wasn’t weird. Nobody noticed. Yes. One of the things I’d say about pausing is that you and I work with clients and convince them that a pause is never as long to the audience as it feels to you. To you, it might seem like 30 seconds. It’s really two to three seconds. I go back to my speech instructor in college who had a saying that he repeated quite often, leave out everything but the pauses. And that gets the point across.

Domenica, being with you on the Biz Communication Show has been so enlightening. I’m just hoping that this is the first time and not the only time. We will certainly want your expertise again. And those who are your broadcast coaching clients, they are going to excel. There’s no doubt about it. They are. And it’s, oh, I just I love every bit of it. I love meeting people and the relationships that I get. I get so lucky. I get to meet all these talented people. It’s just the best thing ever. Well, that’s the way I feel about today. I’m lucky enough to get a highly talented person indeed.

I know that there are viewers and listeners to the Biz Communication Show who would like your contact information. So what would you like to share with us on that, please? Well, if you want to find out a little bit more about my services, you can go to oncamwithdominica.com or you can email me and I’m at Domenica, D-O-M-E-N-I-C-A at oncamwithdominica.com and email me. And just if you want to. I love chatting with people. You don’t have to just meet with me because you have to have my services. If you want to chat, you need some advice, you need some direction, anything like that. You just sometimes people just need to talk things through, right? You just need somebody else to talk things through with. If you’re batting around a couple of ideas, reach out. I love connecting with people. I love meeting people in this business and beyond. Everything intersects these days. So yeah, reach out, say hello. Let’s expand our networks, right? The more we know people, the better we all are.

That is a wonderful invitation. And now that you have given your contact information, which we all appreciate, I’ll give mine. My YouTube channel, Bill Lampton, PhD, youwill find all of the previous versions and this one soon on my YouTube channel. I’ve been recording on YouTube since 2007. Don’t look at any of those earlier ones, please, as Domenica might feel herself. But in recent years, I’ve been able to host outstanding communication professionals. While you’re there, I invite you to subscribe.

Also, my website, biz, since my moniker is the Biz Communication Guy, my website is bizcommunicationguy.com. Give me a phone call. No obligation, no financial investment, initial call. Like Domenica, I would like to hear your communication challenges and problems, and we can talk about what directions you might take to assist you with those. My phone, 678-316-4300.

I want to give credit to the co-producer of the program, that’s Mike Stewart. Mike I met in 1997 when I was just entering the professional speaking business. Mike has been my tech and marketing genius ever since, and his website, localinternetpresence.com. Currently, Mike is a multi-talented guy. Currently, he is touring with a group playing the Beatles songs. He’s one of those guys who got some of the talents that I didn’t, but that’s life.

Domenica, I would like to give you an opportunity, we’ve had such an enlightening conversation. In what few words, 30 seconds or a minute, would you like to pull together the message you want to leave with our audience?

Be yourself. It is good enough. I promise you. It’s something I always have to remind myself.

Be yourself. Nobody wants, you’re a better you than anyone else, and I promise you, it’s enough. It’s good enough, and that’s how you thrive.

The second you lean in to who you are, the world’s your oyster. And I say that to myself too, by the way. I’m saying that to you. I’m saying that to me. I’m saying it to everybody. I have to remind myself that too. Sometimes you just feel we’re not enough, and you are.

And there’s that word going around, we feel like an imposter. Don’t feel like an imposter. You belong there. No, it’s your life. You’ve lived it. All your stories are your stories.

Reminds me of Oscar Wilde who said, be yourself. Everybody else is already taken. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, thank you again to highly professional and highly personable Domenica Davis for being our guest on today’s Biz Communication Show. Thank you to those of you who were with us on the YouTube version and also those who are with us on the podcast. Be with us next week for another program that helps you excel in your business communication. I’m Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. Thank you.

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from meeting Muhammad Ali to riding in Shania Twain’s limousine. And I got, I got to talk to him about that Wes has had what we could easily call a very unconventional career. So join me in welcoming Wes Rhea to the biz communication show Hello Wes.

Wes Rhea

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Wes Rhea

That’s a great question. Bill, you know,

gosh, I’ll try to convince this for you, I was very athletic growing up, played all sports, whatever was in season. When I graduated from high school, I gravitated towards baseball and went to college at Kennesaw State and played baseball at Kennesaw State, and I really that was my goal. I’ll be quite honest, I really wanted to be a professional athlete or professional baseball player. Luckily, I had enough sense to listen to my parents and some others around me, and I graduated from Kennesaw State with a business degree and had what back in the mid 80s they would call a I didn’t get drafted or anything like that, but what they would call is it as a free agent tryout. And I had an opportunity with a free agent tryout and with the Cincinnati Reds, and didn’t work out. So I thought, Well, I gotta, gotta get a real job. And I actually ended up running into some couple guys I grew up with and went to high school with, they had entered into the world of professional wrestling. And I was like, Wow. I loved it as a kid. Watched it and I thought, Wow, maybe this is a chance for me to continue this before I have to maybe do a real job. And now, just to kind of put it in perspective, I’m about six to 190 now, but back then, I was 170 maybe stretching at 621 70, and I can tell you, 621 70 is not going to cut. It too good in professional wrestling, my two buddies were about six foot, 222 30, and one was about six to 240 and they, you know, yeah, you can do it. You know, the TV adds 10 pounds to you, and they’ll bill you at 200 pounds. You’ll, you’ll be there, yes, okay, I can do this. So you had to kind of know somebody who knew somebody who was willing to train you back then. It’s very different from now. If anybody happens to be a professional wrestling fan and watch a professional wrestling there’s lots of schools and training opportunities now. We’re a little different back then. And ended up meeting someone, and had to do kind of the double secret handshake, and guy said he’d bring me in to kind of do like a tryout, so to speak. And, you know, Bill, I thought, wow, this is gonna be cool. I might get to wear a mask. I might get to do jump off the top rope, drop kicks, all these fun things and and literally, Bill, I got beat up for about an hour and a half for free. So 10 minutes into it, I said, What have you gotten? And I’ve said this a lot to myself throughout my life and careers, what have I gotten myself into? And so, you know, I was it was just getting thrown, slammed, you name it, you know. And so I said, Well, this can’t go on forever. Let’s, let’s just do the best you can. So as an athlete, you you’ve heard the term, maybe you got to slow things down a little bit in your brain so things don’t get so fast. And so I said, Let’s just use your athletic ability. We’ll get through it. I did. And I thought, Well, okay, this is over. And after we were done about an hour and a half later and being beaten up for free. The guy, usually, when they forget your name and the wrestling business, they call you kid. And I was in my 20s, of course, at that time, he said, Hey, kid, come here. And I thought, okay, what are they gonna say to get ready to leave? You know? He said, Hey, you can get up to 200 pounds. I’ll train you. I was like, light bulb, you know, the door. I don’t know if anybody’s a movie fan of the movie Dumb and Dumber, have you ever seen that before? No, I’m not saying that one. Okay, well, if you get chance, it’s definitely pretty funny. But there’s a scene where he’s, he basically says, you know, he’s trying to get an opportunity. Says, so you’re, you know, What’s the odds? And the guy says, it’s a million to one. He says, So you’re saying there’s a chance, right? So it was like, you know, I was like, give me that chance. So I went back, you know, started putting in the work. Had a good friend who was a competitive bodybuilder. His parents owned a fitness center, started really training seriously and hard and nutrition, and got up to 200 pounds. And then I called him back, I can’t remember exactly, maybe six, seven months later, and he kept his word. He trained me. And next thing, you know, there, there, there was, you know, just had my first opportunity. I was training up in northwest Georgia. I’d go twice, twice a week, and I’ll never forget bill, if I can share this real quick with you. It was a Saturday, and I’d been training for probably three months or so, and, you know, I thought they had had a show that night, wrestling show. And I thought, well, you know, I was going to go drive home Marietta. And he said, Hey, go get your stuff. You’re, you’re going to be on tonight. And I was like, Whoa, you know

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