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Deep Leadership
Deep Leadership episodes
- #0459 – Why Running From Fear Makes Everything Worse with David Gerber
Why Running From Fear Makes Everything Worse.
What do you do when a wild lion charges straight at you? Your natural instinct is to run. But running might be the worst decision you could make. And as it turns out, the same lesson applies to leadership and life.
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with David Gerber, a mental performance coach for professional athletes and executives, TEDx speaker, partner at Novus Global, and author of The Lion Is You. David has spent weeks tracking wild lions on foot in the African wilderness and has been charged by lions eight different times. Those extraordinary experiences taught him powerful lessons about fear, courage, uncertainty, and what it means to be fully alive.
But David's story goes much deeper than encounters with wild animals. After experiencing a devastating divorce and a prolonged battle with depression, he embarked on a journey of personal transformation that changed how he views success, happiness, and leadership.
We explore why our instinct to run from fear often makes things worse, how to remain calm under extreme pressure, and why embracing uncertainty can lead to a more meaningful and fulfilling life.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why running from fear can make difficult situations even worse.
What being charged by a wild lion teaches us about courage and leadership.
How to stay calm, present, and focused when facing extreme pressure.
Why effective leaders must learn to embrace uncertainty rather than control everything.
How taking one step at a time can help you navigate life's biggest challenges.
Why chasing success and achievement can leave you feeling empty.
How personal setbacks can become opportunities for transformation and growth.
Why the person you become along the journey matters more than reaching the destination.
David reminds us that courage isn't about eliminating fear. It's about learning to stand your ground, face life's challenges, and discover who you are capable of becoming.
Whether you're leading a team, navigating a difficult season of life, or searching for greater purpose, this conversation will challenge you to stop running from fear and start living more fully.
Connect with David Gerber:
Website: https://www.davidagerber.com/
Company Website: https://novus.global
The Lion Is You Book: https://amzn.to/4yQX0dr
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
41 min - #0458 – Stop Making Leadership About You with Bob Rogers
Leadership isn't about you. It's about the people you lead.
Too many leaders focus on delivering their message, sharing their vision, and telling people what to do. But what if the secret to effective leadership isn't about what you say, but how you make people think, feel, and act?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Bob Rogers, founder of BRC Imagination Arts and author of Deep Story. Bob began his career as a magician at Disneyland and went on to create award-winning experiences for organizations like Disney, NASA, Ford, Coca-Cola, and Johnnie Walker. His work has earned more than 500 international awards, two Academy Award nominations, and induction into the Theme Park Hall of Fame.
Bob shares powerful lessons from more than 50 years of storytelling, creativity, and transforming human behavior. He explains why leaders must stop making themselves the hero of the story and instead help their people discover the potential within themselves.
We explore why storytelling is more than communication, how emotional connections inspire action, and why the most effective leaders focus on changing people rather than simply delivering information.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why leadership is about your people, not you.
What working as a magician at Disneyland taught Bob about leadership.
Why communicating a message doesn't necessarily change behavior.
How storytelling can create emotional connections that inspire action.
Why leaders need to make their employees the heroes of the story.
How to connect people to a mission they genuinely care about.
Why leaders must define the change they want before crafting their message.
How to inspire people by helping them discover the potential already within themselves.
The bottom line: People don't follow leaders because they want to admire them. They follow leaders who help them become something more than they thought possible.
If you want to become a better leader, inspire your team, and create lasting change, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership and communication.
Connect with Bob Rogers:
Personal Website: https://www.bobrogers.com/
Company Website: https://www.brcweb.com/
Deep Story Book: https://amzn.to/4hFeBiD
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
39 min - #0457 – Why Successful Men Struggle in the Second Half of Life with Dr. Kenneth Ro
What if the second half of your life could actually be better than the first?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Dr. Kenneth Ro, a double board-certified physician with more than 35 years of experience on the front lines of medicine and the author of Prime: How to Win in the Second Half of Life. After treating more than 170,000 patients, Dr. Ro noticed a troubling pattern: successful men were quietly struggling with declining energy, burnout, changing health, and a loss of identity, often accepting it all as a normal part of getting older.
But it doesn’t have to be that way.
Dr. Ro explains why midlife should be viewed as a transition rather than a crisis and why the second half of life offers an opportunity to rethink your health, identity, purpose, and legacy.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why so many successful men struggle silently in midlife
• Why the traditional approach to men’s health can miss important warning signs
• How declining energy, stress, sleep, hormones, and lifestyle are interconnected
• Why your identity needs to evolve as you enter the second half of life
• How to recognize and reverse the slow acceptance of declining performance
• Why purpose and legacy become increasingly important as we age
• How winning the second half of your life can impact your family, employees, and future generations
• Why leading by example matters at every stage of lifeGetting older doesn’t mean your best years are behind you. With greater experience, wisdom, and intentionality, the second half of life may be your opportunity to become healthier, more purposeful, and more impactful than ever.
If you’re ready to stop accepting decline and start thinking differently about what comes next, this episode is for you.
Connect with Dr. Kenneth Ro:
Website: https://www.kennethromd.com/
Website: https://www.backinthegamemen.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkenro/
Prime Book: https://amzn.to/4yxqTQ3
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0456 – Stop Trying to Manage Uncertainty. Use It. With Meridith Elliott Powell
Stop Trying to Manage Uncertainty. Use It.
Uncertainty isn’t going away. In fact, it may be the new normal. So instead of trying to manage change, what if leaders learned how to use it to their advantage?
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I’m joined by Hall of Fame speaker, award-winning author, and leadership expert Meridith Elliott Powell. Meridith has spent more than 25 years studying how leaders and organizations navigate economic downturns, disruption, and constant change.
We discuss why the leaders who thrive in uncertain environments think differently, why action is the antidote to anxiety, and why listening may be one of the most important leadership skills in today’s marketplace. Meridith also explains why leaders need to stop trying to have all the answers and start paying closer attention to their teams, customers, and the opportunities emerging around them.
What you’ll learn:
Why uncertainty is no longer an event but the environment we operate in
How to turn disruption into opportunity
Why action is the antidote to anxiety
The importance of having a clear vision when the path is uncertain
Why leaders need to listen more and talk less
How customer complaints can reveal your next opportunity
Why developing the next generation of leaders matters more than ever
How to stop managing change and start using it
If you’re leading through change, disruption, or uncertainty, this conversation will help you stop waiting for things to settle down and start moving forward.
Connect with Meridith Elliott Powell:
Website: https://www.meridithelliottpowell.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridithelliottpowell/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
37 min - #0455 – How to Build a Great Team in a Mediocre Company with Stephen Baer
What if you can’t fix your entire company, but you can build an exceptional team within it?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I’m joined by Stephen Baer, serial entrepreneur, investor, and bestselling author of Stickology: How to Build Unbreakable Connections with Employees and Customers for Life. Stephen has spent his career studying a question every leader should care about: Why do people stay, and why do they leave?
We discuss why employee engagement shouldn’t be treated as an HR initiative, how the employee experience directly affects the customer experience, and why people are more likely to stay when they feel seen, heard, valued, and connected to a larger purpose.
Stephen also explains how leaders at any level can create a “pocket of excellence” within an organization. You may not control the company culture, but you can influence the culture of the team you lead.
We discuss:
• Why great individual contributors often struggle when promoted into management
• The connection between employee engagement and business performance
• Why your customer experience starts with your employee experience
• How to make employees feel seen, heard, and valued
• Stephen’s “Greet Them, Know Them, Grow Them” approach
• How middle managers can build a great team even inside a mediocre company
• Why leaders should listen before they act
• How to build culture through consistent habits instead of one-time initiativesIf you’re leading a team and waiting for the rest of the organization to get better, this conversation is for you. You don’t have to wait. Be the exception.
Listen now and learn how to build a team people want to be part of.
Connect with Stephen Baer:
Website: https://stephenbaer.com/
Stickology Book: https://amzn.to/4rzdynv
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0454 – You Can’t Lead Others Until You Lead Yourself with Steve “Moby” Leitch
What happens when your identity is built on achievement, and then everything you’ve achieved disappears?
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I talk with Steve "Moby" Leitch, Amazon bestselling author, endurance athlete, leadership coach, and one of only a small number of people to complete the Ocean Seven. Steve shares his remarkable journey from success to losing his business, marriage, health, and sense of identity, and how he rebuilt his life through faith, discipline, purpose, and self-leadership.
We discuss why leadership starts long before you lead anyone else, the danger of tying your identity to your job or accomplishments, and why the work you do on yourself ultimately determines the kind of leader you become.
Steve also shares the daily disciplines he uses to strengthen his spiritual, physical, relational, and professional life, and what swimming some of the world's most difficult open-water channels has taught him about resilience, perseverance, and purpose.
If you want to become a stronger, more resilient leader, this conversation is a powerful reminder: lead yourself first.
What You'll Learn:
• Why leadership begins with self-leadership
• The danger of building your identity around achievement
• How failure can expose what needs to change
• Why discipline matters more than motivation
• How to strengthen the areas of your life people don't see
• What extreme endurance teaches us about resilience
• Why purpose can keep you moving when you want to quitConnect with Steve “Moby” Leitch:
Against the Current Book: https://amzn.to/4izuNCP
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevemobyleitch/?hl=en
Website: https://stevemobyleitch.net/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
42 min - #0453 – Stop Planning. Start Thinking Strategically with Charlie Curson
Strategy is not planning. And being busy doesn’t necessarily mean you’re being strategic.
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I’m joined by Charlie Curson, founder of Mandarin and author of the international bestselling book Be More Strategic. Charlie has spent more than 25 years helping leaders around the world develop their ability to think strategically and make better decisions in complex environments.
We discuss why so many leaders confuse strategy with planning, why operationally strong leaders can struggle when they move into strategic roles, and how strategic thinking is a capability that can be deliberately developed and practiced.
Charlie also explains why strategy requires making difficult choices, how pressure causes leaders to fall back into operational habits, and why listening, self-awareness, curiosity, and comfort with uncertainty are essential skills for strategic leaders.
In this episode, we discuss:
• The difference between strategy and planning
• Why strategy must come before planning and execution
• Why leaders become trapped in operational thinking
• How to develop strategic thinking as a leadership capability
• Why strategy requires deciding what not to do
• How short-term pressure can pull leaders away from strategy
• The importance of self-awareness and open-mindedness
• Why better listening leads to better strategic decisions
• How leaders can balance execution with long-term thinking
• Simple practices you can use to become more strategicCharlie reminds us that strategic thinking isn’t something reserved for CEOs, consultants, or annual planning sessions. It is a leadership capability that can be learned, practiced, and strengthened over time.
If you find yourself constantly reacting, solving the problem in front of you, and struggling to find time to think about where you’re actually going, this conversation is for you.
Connect with Charlie Curson:
Be More Strategic Book: https://amzn.to/4iW0x5p
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliecurson/
Website: https://www.teammandarin.com/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
43 min - #0452 – Why Your Business Should Run Better Without You with Joe Sandin
What if one of the best signs of leadership is that your business runs better when you’re not there?
In this episode, I sit down with Joe Sandin, founder and CEO of Onsharp, a software company he started from his college dorm room more than 26 years ago. Joe built the company without outside investment, choosing to grow at his own pace while focusing on relationships, culture, and building a business designed to last.
We talk about the difficult transition every entrepreneur eventually faces: moving from doing the work yourself to trusting other people to lead. Joe shares why founders have to learn to let go, allow people to make mistakes, stay focused, and sometimes simply get out of the way.
We also explore how AI is changing the opportunities available to small businesses and why Joe believes technology should elevate people rather than replace them.
In this episode, we discuss:
• Why Joe chose to build his company without outside investors
• The transition from doing everything yourself to developing leaders
• Why delegation requires trust, patience, and allowing mistakes
• How a founder can become the bottleneck in their own business
• Why focus is critical as a company grows
• The danger of constantly chasing new opportunities
• How AI is changing software development and small business
• Why patience may be one of the most important traits for entrepreneurs
• What 26 years in business taught Joe about leadership and successIf you’re an entrepreneur, business owner, or leader trying to build an organization that doesn’t depend on you for every decision, this conversation will give you plenty to think about.
Listen in and learn why sometimes the best thing a leader can do is get out of the way.
Connect with Joe Sandin:
Website: https://www.onsharp.com/
Podcast: https://www.businessblueprintshow.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mjcollectiondotcom/?hl=en
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0451 – Hope Is Not a Strategy: How Leaders Prepare for the Unexpected with Alan Porter
Hope is not a strategy.
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Alan Porter, a retired U.S. Army Blackhawk instructor pilot, financial fiduciary, author, and founder of Strategic Wealth Strategies.
Alan spent more than 21 years in the Army, where he learned that when the pressure is highest, you don’t rise to the occasion. You fall back on your preparation. Today, he applies that same philosophy to financial stewardship, risk management, and helping leaders prepare for the unexpected.
We discuss:
• What military aviation teaches us about leadership and preparation
• Why leaders need to think about risk before a crisis occurs
• The dangers of focusing on growth while ignoring protection
• Why financial stewardship is a leadership responsibility
• How unexpected life events can change everything
• Why preparation, redundancy, and risk management matter in business and life
• The importance of protecting your family, your business, and your legacy
• Why “hope is not a strategy”Alan’s message is simple: Life rarely goes exactly as planned. Strong leaders prepare for what could go wrong before it does.
If you’re a business owner, entrepreneur, or leader responsible for others, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about risk, preparation, and financial stewardship.
Listen in and learn why the best time to prepare for the unexpected is before it happens.
Connect with Alan Porter:
Website: https://www.strategicwealthstrategies.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StrategicWealthStrategies
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
39 min - #0450 – Why Modern Leaders Need Ancient Wisdom with Dr. Josh Herring
What if some of the best answers to today’s leadership challenges were written thousands of years ago?
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I’m joined by Dr. Josh Herring, Director of the Logres Institute for Classical Liberal Studies, Curriculum Program Manager for the Rafiki Foundation, and author of Sons of Adam, Daughters of Eve: C.S. Lewis’s Images of Gender.
Josh makes the case that modern education has increasingly emphasized skills and credentials while losing touch with the deeper intellectual traditions that once shaped leaders and critical thinkers. We discuss what leaders can learn from classical education, why studying history and literature matters, and how thinkers like Plutarch, Shakespeare, and Machiavelli can help us better understand leadership and human nature.
We also explore why leaders need to explain the “why” behind their decisions, the importance of practicing leadership before the stakes are high, and why timeless truths may be more useful than chasing the latest leadership trends.
If you want to think more deeply, make wiser decisions, and become a better leader, this conversation will challenge you to look backward in order to move forward.
What You’ll Learn:
• Why classical education matters for modern leaders
• How ancient wisdom can improve leadership decision-making
• Why knowledge, logic, and critical thinking still matter
• What Plutarch, Shakespeare, and Machiavelli can teach us about leadership
• Why leaders must clearly communicate the “why” behind their decisions
• How timeless truths can help leaders navigate a rapidly changing worldListen now and discover why modern leaders may need ancient wisdom more than ever.
Connect with Dr. Josh Herring :
Website: https://www.logresinstitute.org/
Book: https://amzn.to/467eOVd
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-herring-ph-d-1943a7119/
Twitter: https://x.com/TheOptimisticC3
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
41 min
About Deep Leadership
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“Leadership is a People Business.” That's the philosophy of this leadership podcast from Jon Rennie. It's real-world, actionable advice from Jon as well as his expert guests. As a former Cold War…
Submarine Officer who spent 22 years leading businesses in Corporate America before starting his own manufacturing business, he knows that leadership matters!
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