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Deep Leadership
Deep Leadership episodes
- #0463 – Why Being Good at Your Job Can Make You a Bad Leader with Zack Tomlin
Why Being Good at Your Job Can Make You a Bad Leader
Being great at your job doesn't automatically make you a great leader. In fact, the very skills that made you successful might be holding you back.
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Zack Tomlin, professional engineer, entrepreneur, leadership advisor, and author of Craft: The Expedition of Business, to explore why technical expertise doesn't always translate into effective leadership.
After spending 12 years building and leading his own engineering firm, Zack discovered that leadership requires an entirely different set of skills. We discuss the challenges of transitioning from individual contributor to leader, why emotional intelligence alone isn't enough, and how leaders can develop the executive mindset needed to build successful organizations.
We also explore Zack's concept of high agency leadership, which focuses on giving employees the freedom to think, make decisions, and solve problems without constant oversight. Zack explains why leaders must balance autonomy with accountability and why the need to control everything can actually limit an organization's success.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why being technically excellent doesn't necessarily make you an effective leader.
How to develop the executive mindset needed to lead a successful organization.
What high agency leadership is and why it matters in today's workplace.
How to balance employee autonomy with accountability without micromanaging.
Why emotional intelligence is important but isn't enough to make you a great leader.
How to build a team that can make decisions and solve problems without relying on you.
Why effective leadership often requires doing things that feel uncomfortable.
How great leaders create certainty in the face of confusion and order in the face of chaos.
One of the biggest lessons from this conversation is that leadership isn't about being the smartest person in the room or having all the answers. It's about creating an environment where your people can do their best work.
If you're a business owner, entrepreneur, manager, or technical professional transitioning into leadership, this episode will challenge how you think about your role and help you become a more effective leader.
Connect with Zack Tomlin:
Website: https://yourcraftyourclimb.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zack-tomlin/
Craft: The Expedition of Business Book: https://link.amazon/B09Zovjm4
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Fraternity of Excellence
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0462 – How to Stay Calm When Everything Is Falling Apart with Dominic Forth
What do you do when everything around you is falling apart? Do you panic, freeze, or find a way to stay calm and make the next right decision?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Dominic Forth, CEO of Thought Leaders America, to explore what a near-death experience can teach us about leadership, fear, and decision-making under pressure. During a whitewater rafting trip on Africa's Zambezi River, Dominic became trapped beneath a collapsing raft in dangerous rapids. His survival depended on three things: calm, clarity, and courage.
That terrifying experience changed the way Dominic thinks about leadership, business, and life. Today, he shares how leaders can develop the mental habits needed to stay focused during a crisis, turn fear into fuel, and find opportunities in unexpected adversity.
We also discuss why a leader's emotional state can influence an entire team, why courage matters more than the absence of fear, and how the most difficult moments often create the greatest opportunities for growth.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why staying calm is one of the most important leadership skills during a crisis.
How a near-death experience revealed three essential qualities of effective leadership: calm, clarity, and courage.
Why your emotional state as a leader can affect the performance and confidence of your entire team.
How to turn fear into fuel instead of allowing it to control your decisions.
Practical techniques for staying focused and thinking clearly under extreme pressure.
Why you don't need to know every answer to make the next right decision.
How to separate your personal identity from your performance and results.
Why disruption and adversity can create unexpected opportunities for growth.
How to develop the habits you need before a crisis arrives.
Leadership isn't defined by what happens when everything is going well. It's revealed by how you respond when everything goes wrong. You can't always control when the boat flips, but you can control what you do next.
Connect with Dominic Forth:
Thought Leaders America: https://thoughtleadersamerica.com
The Authority Brief: https://authoritybrief.com
Connect with Dominic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominic-forth/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Fraternity of Excellence
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
40 min - #0461 – Why Your Natural Leadership Style Might Be Holding You Back with Jennifer Reiser
What if the leadership style that made you successful is actually holding your team back?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Jennifer Reiser, a nationally recognized expert in leadership, workforce development, and change management, to explore why our natural leadership strengths can sometimes become our biggest weaknesses.
Jennifer is the creator of Leading in Color: Leadership Lessons from the Animal World, a unique approach to leadership development that draws surprising lessons from nature. From the confidence of a peacock to the curiosity of a raccoon and the perseverance of a salmon, Jennifer shows us how the animal kingdom can teach us to become more self-aware, adaptable, and effective leaders.
We discuss why leadership doesn't have to be complicated, how to recognize when your strengths are working against you, and why the best leaders know when to change their approach to meet the needs of their teams.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why your natural leadership style might be holding your team back.
How your greatest leadership strengths can become your biggest weaknesses.
What the animal kingdom can teach us about confidence, curiosity, resilience, and adaptability.
Why effective leaders must adapt their leadership style to different situations.
How to create a workplace environment where different personalities and strengths can thrive.
Why curiosity and humility are essential for continued leadership growth.
How to recognize when your experience is getting in the way of better ideas.
Why great leadership starts with knowing yourself and understanding your people.
Leadership is not about having all the answers or leading the same way in every situation. It's about understanding your strengths, recognizing what your people need, and having the humility to adapt.
If you want to become a more intentional, adaptable, and effective leader, this conversation will challenge you to rethink how you lead.
Connect with Jennifer Reiser:
Website: https://riseupleadershipsolutions.com/
Workbook 1: https://link.amazon/B008Iyber
Workbook 2: https://link.amazon/B0eeHrMTA
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
41 min - #0460 – Why Our Schools Have a Leadership Problem with Dr. Lindsay Whorton
What if the biggest problem in our public schools isn't the teachers, but the leadership systems we've built around them?
Teachers are overwhelmed. Principals are stretched thin. New initiatives, policies, and reporting requirements keep piling up. Yet despite everyone's best efforts, many schools continue to struggle. What if we're trying to solve the wrong problem?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Dr. Lindsay Whorton, President of the Holdsworth Center and author of A New School Leadership Architecture, to explore why our public schools have a leadership problem and what we can do about it. Lindsay is a Rhodes Scholar who has helped develop more than 1,900 school leaders across Texas. She believes that the answer to improving our schools isn't simply finding better leaders or asking teachers to work harder. It's about fundamentally rethinking how leadership is structured and supported.
We discuss why traditional school leadership models are no longer sustainable, how the divide between teachers and administrators creates distrust, and why the people closest to the students should be the most important people in the organization. Lindsay also explains how shared leadership, greater autonomy, and trust-based accountability can help create schools where teachers and principals can thrive.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why our schools have a leadership problem, not a teacher problem
How traditional school leadership structures set good people up to fail
Why principals are overwhelmed and what can be done about it
How the divide between teachers and administrators hurts school performance
Why adding more rules and bureaucracy often makes problems worse
How shared leadership can reduce burnout and improve results
Why trust is essential to building high-performing organizations
How to balance teacher autonomy with accountability
Why leaders must create the conditions for others to succeed
The lessons in this conversation extend far beyond education. Every organization faces the challenge of helping good people do their best work. When talented, dedicated people consistently struggle, maybe the problem isn't the people. Maybe it's the system we've built around them.
If you're a teacher, school administrator, parent, or leader who wants to build an organization where people can succeed, this episode will challenge the way you think about leadership.
Learn more about Dr. Lindsay Whorton:
Website: https://holdsworthcenter.org/
Book: https://link.amazon/B0gJP9y28
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0459 – Why Running From Fear Makes Everything Worse with David Gerber
Why Running From Fear Makes Everything Worse.
What do you do when a wild lion charges straight at you? Your natural instinct is to run. But running might be the worst decision you could make. And as it turns out, the same lesson applies to leadership and life.
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with David Gerber, a mental performance coach for professional athletes and executives, TEDx speaker, partner at Novus Global, and author of The Lion Is You. David has spent weeks tracking wild lions on foot in the African wilderness and has been charged by lions eight different times. Those extraordinary experiences taught him powerful lessons about fear, courage, uncertainty, and what it means to be fully alive.
But David's story goes much deeper than encounters with wild animals. After experiencing a devastating divorce and a prolonged battle with depression, he embarked on a journey of personal transformation that changed how he views success, happiness, and leadership.
We explore why our instinct to run from fear often makes things worse, how to remain calm under extreme pressure, and why embracing uncertainty can lead to a more meaningful and fulfilling life.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why running from fear can make difficult situations even worse.
What being charged by a wild lion teaches us about courage and leadership.
How to stay calm, present, and focused when facing extreme pressure.
Why effective leaders must learn to embrace uncertainty rather than control everything.
How taking one step at a time can help you navigate life's biggest challenges.
Why chasing success and achievement can leave you feeling empty.
How personal setbacks can become opportunities for transformation and growth.
Why the person you become along the journey matters more than reaching the destination.
David reminds us that courage isn't about eliminating fear. It's about learning to stand your ground, face life's challenges, and discover who you are capable of becoming.
Whether you're leading a team, navigating a difficult season of life, or searching for greater purpose, this conversation will challenge you to stop running from fear and start living more fully.
Connect with David Gerber:
Website: https://www.davidagerber.com/
Company Website: https://novus.global
The Lion Is You Book: https://amzn.to/4yQX0dr
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
41 min - #0458 – Stop Making Leadership About You with Bob Rogers
Leadership isn't about you. It's about the people you lead.
Too many leaders focus on delivering their message, sharing their vision, and telling people what to do. But what if the secret to effective leadership isn't about what you say, but how you make people think, feel, and act?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Bob Rogers, founder of BRC Imagination Arts and author of Deep Story. Bob began his career as a magician at Disneyland and went on to create award-winning experiences for organizations like Disney, NASA, Ford, Coca-Cola, and Johnnie Walker. His work has earned more than 500 international awards, two Academy Award nominations, and induction into the Theme Park Hall of Fame.
Bob shares powerful lessons from more than 50 years of storytelling, creativity, and transforming human behavior. He explains why leaders must stop making themselves the hero of the story and instead help their people discover the potential within themselves.
We explore why storytelling is more than communication, how emotional connections inspire action, and why the most effective leaders focus on changing people rather than simply delivering information.
In this episode, you'll learn:
Why leadership is about your people, not you.
What working as a magician at Disneyland taught Bob about leadership.
Why communicating a message doesn't necessarily change behavior.
How storytelling can create emotional connections that inspire action.
Why leaders need to make their employees the heroes of the story.
How to connect people to a mission they genuinely care about.
Why leaders must define the change they want before crafting their message.
How to inspire people by helping them discover the potential already within themselves.
The bottom line: People don't follow leaders because they want to admire them. They follow leaders who help them become something more than they thought possible.
If you want to become a better leader, inspire your team, and create lasting change, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership and communication.
Connect with Bob Rogers:
Personal Website: https://www.bobrogers.com/
Company Website: https://www.brcweb.com/
Deep Story Book: https://amzn.to/4hFeBiD
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
39 min - #0457 – Why Successful Men Struggle in the Second Half of Life with Dr. Kenneth Ro
What if the second half of your life could actually be better than the first?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I sit down with Dr. Kenneth Ro, a double board-certified physician with more than 35 years of experience on the front lines of medicine and the author of Prime: How to Win in the Second Half of Life. After treating more than 170,000 patients, Dr. Ro noticed a troubling pattern: successful men were quietly struggling with declining energy, burnout, changing health, and a loss of identity, often accepting it all as a normal part of getting older.
But it doesn’t have to be that way.
Dr. Ro explains why midlife should be viewed as a transition rather than a crisis and why the second half of life offers an opportunity to rethink your health, identity, purpose, and legacy.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why so many successful men struggle silently in midlife
• Why the traditional approach to men’s health can miss important warning signs
• How declining energy, stress, sleep, hormones, and lifestyle are interconnected
• Why your identity needs to evolve as you enter the second half of life
• How to recognize and reverse the slow acceptance of declining performance
• Why purpose and legacy become increasingly important as we age
• How winning the second half of your life can impact your family, employees, and future generations
• Why leading by example matters at every stage of lifeGetting older doesn’t mean your best years are behind you. With greater experience, wisdom, and intentionality, the second half of life may be your opportunity to become healthier, more purposeful, and more impactful than ever.
If you’re ready to stop accepting decline and start thinking differently about what comes next, this episode is for you.
Connect with Dr. Kenneth Ro:
Website: https://www.kennethromd.com/
Website: https://www.backinthegamemen.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkenro/
Prime Book: https://amzn.to/4yxqTQ3
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0456 – Stop Trying to Manage Uncertainty. Use It. With Meridith Elliott Powell
Stop Trying to Manage Uncertainty. Use It.
Uncertainty isn’t going away. In fact, it may be the new normal. So instead of trying to manage change, what if leaders learned how to use it to their advantage?
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I’m joined by Hall of Fame speaker, award-winning author, and leadership expert Meridith Elliott Powell. Meridith has spent more than 25 years studying how leaders and organizations navigate economic downturns, disruption, and constant change.
We discuss why the leaders who thrive in uncertain environments think differently, why action is the antidote to anxiety, and why listening may be one of the most important leadership skills in today’s marketplace. Meridith also explains why leaders need to stop trying to have all the answers and start paying closer attention to their teams, customers, and the opportunities emerging around them.
What you’ll learn:
Why uncertainty is no longer an event but the environment we operate in
How to turn disruption into opportunity
Why action is the antidote to anxiety
The importance of having a clear vision when the path is uncertain
Why leaders need to listen more and talk less
How customer complaints can reveal your next opportunity
Why developing the next generation of leaders matters more than ever
How to stop managing change and start using it
If you’re leading through change, disruption, or uncertainty, this conversation will help you stop waiting for things to settle down and start moving forward.
Connect with Meridith Elliott Powell:
Website: https://www.meridithelliottpowell.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridithelliottpowell/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
37 min - #0455 – How to Build a Great Team in a Mediocre Company with Stephen Baer
What if you can’t fix your entire company, but you can build an exceptional team within it?
In this episode of Deep Leadership, I’m joined by Stephen Baer, serial entrepreneur, investor, and bestselling author of Stickology: How to Build Unbreakable Connections with Employees and Customers for Life. Stephen has spent his career studying a question every leader should care about: Why do people stay, and why do they leave?
We discuss why employee engagement shouldn’t be treated as an HR initiative, how the employee experience directly affects the customer experience, and why people are more likely to stay when they feel seen, heard, valued, and connected to a larger purpose.
Stephen also explains how leaders at any level can create a “pocket of excellence” within an organization. You may not control the company culture, but you can influence the culture of the team you lead.
We discuss:
• Why great individual contributors often struggle when promoted into management
• The connection between employee engagement and business performance
• Why your customer experience starts with your employee experience
• How to make employees feel seen, heard, and valued
• Stephen’s “Greet Them, Know Them, Grow Them” approach
• How middle managers can build a great team even inside a mediocre company
• Why leaders should listen before they act
• How to build culture through consistent habits instead of one-time initiativesIf you’re leading a team and waiting for the rest of the organization to get better, this conversation is for you. You don’t have to wait. Be the exception.
Listen now and learn how to build a team people want to be part of.
Connect with Stephen Baer:
Website: https://stephenbaer.com/
Stickology Book: https://amzn.to/4rzdynv
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
38 min - #0454 – You Can’t Lead Others Until You Lead Yourself with Steve “Moby” Leitch
What happens when your identity is built on achievement, and then everything you’ve achieved disappears?
In this episode of the Deep Leadership podcast, I talk with Steve "Moby" Leitch, Amazon bestselling author, endurance athlete, leadership coach, and one of only a small number of people to complete the Ocean Seven. Steve shares his remarkable journey from success to losing his business, marriage, health, and sense of identity, and how he rebuilt his life through faith, discipline, purpose, and self-leadership.
We discuss why leadership starts long before you lead anyone else, the danger of tying your identity to your job or accomplishments, and why the work you do on yourself ultimately determines the kind of leader you become.
Steve also shares the daily disciplines he uses to strengthen his spiritual, physical, relational, and professional life, and what swimming some of the world's most difficult open-water channels has taught him about resilience, perseverance, and purpose.
If you want to become a stronger, more resilient leader, this conversation is a powerful reminder: lead yourself first.
What You'll Learn:
• Why leadership begins with self-leadership
• The danger of building your identity around achievement
• How failure can expose what needs to change
• Why discipline matters more than motivation
• How to strengthen the areas of your life people don't see
• What extreme endurance teaches us about resilience
• Why purpose can keep you moving when you want to quitConnect with Steve “Moby” Leitch:
Against the Current Book: https://amzn.to/4izuNCP
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevemobyleitch/?hl=en
Website: https://stevemobyleitch.net/
Subscribe to Deep Leadership:
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with someone who wants to become a better leader.
Sponsors:
Cadre of Men
Farrow Skin Care
Salty Sailor Coffee Company
Leader Connect
The Qualified Leadership Series
____
Get all of Jon Rennie's bestselling leadership books for 15% off the regular price today! HERE
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
42 min
About Deep Leadership
From the publisher's feed
“Leadership is a People Business.” That's the philosophy of this leadership podcast from Jon Rennie. It's real-world, actionable advice from Jon as well as his expert guests. As a former Cold War…
Submarine Officer who spent 22 years leading businesses in Corporate America before starting his own manufacturing business, he knows that leadership matters!
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