After spending the last decade covering America’s criminal justice system, one thing is clear to activist, journalist and scholar Josie Duffy Rice: a grab-bag approach to policy reform isn’t going to fix all the problems with policing in America. Josie is the president of The Appeal, a non-profit news publication focused on criminal justice, and the co-host of the podcast, "Justice in America". She has been working in the weeds on issues that many Americans are now paying attention to in the wake of George Floyd’s killing—issues like police brutality, bloated police budgets, surveillance, pre-trial detention, cash bail, and the disproportionate police presence in communities of color. On this week’s show, Josie joins Jamilah King for a discussion about the recent police killing of Rayshard Brookes in Atlanta, the deep racist and classist structural issues with policing in America, and why defunding the police is only step one.