Dents in the Darkness

In this episode, Mike Schooley and Tim Madeira sit down with Karl Vaters — pastor, author, and one of the leading voices on pastoring and leading in average-size churches. Karl has spent over 40 years pastoring normative sized churches, and his work through Helping Small Churches Thrive has reshaped how thousands of leaders think about size, health, and mission.

In this conversation we talk through: 

*why discipleship matters no matter your church's size 

* how to actually build a healthy church culture

Karl Vaters is also the keynote at this years’ Leadership Summit that will be held in Cortland NY where we will invest in church leaders that minister in the Northeast.

Karl has served in small-church ministry for over 40 years and is the author of several books on church health and leadership, including:

• Small Church Essentials: Field-Tested Principles for Leading a Healthy Congregation of Under 250

• The Grasshopper Myth: Big Churches, Small Churches, and the Small Thinking That Divides Us

• 100 Days to a Healthier Church: A Step-by-Step Guide for Pastors and Leadership Teams

• The Church Recovery Guide: How Your Congregation Can Adapt and Thrive After a Crisis

• De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next

Karl also hosts The Church Lobby: Conversations on Faith & Ministry, and speaks and writes extensively on helping small churches thrive.

In this episode, we sit down with Justin Bleuer from Berean Bible Church in Greene, New York, to talk about the impact and journey of multisite ministry.

Justin shares the story behind Berean’s transition into multisite, the challenges they faced along the way, and the lessons they’ve learned as they’ve worked to expand their reach while maintaining healthy culture and discipleship. What began as a vision to reach more people with the gospel has become a practical model for leadership development, church growth, and Kingdom multiplication in their region.

Together, we discuss how multisite ministry can help churches extend their mission into neighboring communities, raise up leaders from within, and create greater opportunities for discipleship and engagement.

In This Episode:

• The story behind Berean becoming a multisite church

• Initial hesitations and challenges in the process

• Why multisite made sense for their context

• Leadership development through multisite ministry

• Maintaining church culture across campuses

• The importance of communication and alignment

• Reaching new communities without losing mission focus

• How multisite creates opportunities for discipleship

• Lessons learned from the journey

• Encouragement for churches considering multisite

Resources:

- ⁠Multichurch ⁠

Connect & Subscribe:

If this episode encouraged you, share it with a pastor, church leader, or ministry team exploring multisite ministry. Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, multiplication, discipleship, and the future of the Church in the Northeast and beyond.

In this episode, we sit down with Wayne Lewis to explore the role of discipleship within Christian higher education. As a leader in Christian academia and ministry, Dr. Lewis shares how universities can shape not only students’ minds, but also their spiritual formation, leadership, and calling.

Together, we discuss the unique opportunities Christian universities have to develop the next generation of pastors, missionaries, church leaders, and marketplace disciples. Dr. Lewis also shares insights on mentoring students, cultivating biblical community on campus, and helping young adults follow Jesus faithfully in today’s culture.

In This Episode

• Why discipleship matters in Christian higher education

• Creating a Christ-centered campus culture

• Mentoring and investing in the next generation

• Preparing students for ministry and vocation

• Helping students navigate faith in a changing culture

• Leadership development in college settings

• The partnership between churches and Christian universities

• Encouraging students toward lifelong faithfulness

  
  

  Resources

  https://www.houghton.edu/

In this episode, we sit down with Pastor TJ Freeman to talk about the heart behind rural ministry, leadership development, and church planting in overlooked communities. TJ serves as the Executive Director of The Brainerd Institute and pastors Christ Church in Wellsboro, Pennsylvania. His passion is helping rural churches thrive through healthy leadership, gospel-centered discipleship, and long-term pastoral faithfulness.

TJ shares his own ministry journey—from church planting and pastoral ministry to leading initiatives focused on equipping leaders in rural contexts. Together, we explore why rural communities matter deeply to the mission of God and how healthy churches can multiply even in places many overlook.

In This Episode

• Why rural ministry matters more than ever
• The unique opportunities and challenges of leading in small towns
• Building leadership pipelines in rural churches
• Church planting outside urban centers
• Why long-term pastoral faithfulness matters
• How isolation impacts pastors and leaders
• Creating healthy cultures in smaller congregations
• Practical encouragement for rural pastors and church planters
• The vision behind The Brainerd Institute
• What it looks like to make Christ known “in the middle of nowhere"

Resources & Links

• The Brainerd Institute
• Rural Church Renewal Podcast
• Back to Rurality Podcast

Connect & Subscribe

If this episode encouraged you, share it with a pastor, church planter, or ministry leader serving in a rural context. Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, multiplication, and the future of the Church in the Northeast and beyond.

In this episode, we sit down with Ryan Vet — USA Today bestselling author, futurist, and leadership thinker and follower of Jesus — to unpack what it means to lead across generations in today’s rapidly changing culture.

We also dive into how these generational shifts are deeply impacting the church — especially discipleship, community, and small groups. Ryan shares why younger generations are craving authentic relationships, meaningful conversations, and spaces where they can belong before they believe. We discuss how churches can rethink small groups and community environments to better engage multiple generations while still remaining rooted in biblical truth.

We talk about:

• Why generational leadership matters more than ever

• The biggest misunderstandings between generations

• How Gen Z and Gen Alpha are reshaping leadership expectations

• The value of investing in a small group

• Why younger generations value authenticity and community

• How technology and AI are accelerating cultural change

• How generational shifts are affecting discipleship and church engagement

• Practical ways churches can bridge generational gaps

• Why healthy leaders must learn to adapt without losing conviction

Ryan also shares insights from his work on “The Velocity Gap” and the “Generational Prism,” helping leaders understand not just what is changing — but why it’s changing.

Whether you lead a church, organization, team, or family, this conversation will help you lead people with greater clarity, empathy, and intentionality.

Ryan Vet is a generational futurist, keynote speaker, and bestselling author whose work focuses on leadership, culture, generational dynamics, AI, and the future of work. His insights have been featured by Forbes, ABC, NBC, CBS, and USA Today.

• Ryan Vet Website: https://www.ryanvet.com

• The Ryan Vet Show Podcast: https://www.ryanvet.com/podcast

About Ryan VetResources & LinksCollide Newsletter: https://collide.ryanvet.com

Tim and Mike sit down with Antoine Lassiter to talk about what kingdom multiplication really looks like — especially in normative-size churches. Antoine shares his personal story, his heart for reaching the community, and practical insights on how multiplication doesn't have to be reserved for the mega-church down the road. It starts right where you are.

Antoine Lassiter is the pastor of Think Kingdom Church in Kannapolis, NC and a Church Planting Strategist for SendNC through the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. A native North Carolinian with over 20 years of ministry experience, Antoine is a disciple maker at heart — passionate about coaching and training church planters across the state. As the founder of the Think Kingdom network, his work includes finding, assessing, and developing planters, sending churches, leaders, and church planting coaches — as well as helping local churches create a reproducing culture that leads to multiplication. Antoine and his wife, Latonia, have been married for 25 years and have two sons, Justin and Christopher.

Listen to:

• Antoine's Story — How God shaped his journey and calling into ministry and multiplication.
• Reaching Your Community — Practical ways churches can engage the people right around them with the gospel.
• Multiplication in Normative-Size Churches — Why multiplication isn't just for large churches, and how everyday congregations can embrace a multiplication mindset.

About Antoine:

• Website: antoinelassiter.com
• Antoine's book - "Beyond the Calling: The Cost of Faithful Leadership"

In this episode of Dents in the Darkness, Tim Madeira (WGRN) and Mike Schooley (NEC) sit down with Dr. Michael J. Rubino, Vice President of Learning & Resources for Be the Church Collective and Lead Pastor of Cornerstone Bible Church on Long Island, along with Gary Campbell, Lead Catalyst for Be the Church and Lead Pastor of Groton Bible Chapel.

Together they discuss the current state of the church in the Northeast and the important role collaboration plays in strengthening local congregations and multiplying kingdom impact.

Be the Church exists to strengthen churches, equip leaders, and multiply kingdom impact, and this conversation explores how churches can breathe new life into ministry by investing in leadership development, cultivating healthy elder teams, and partnering with other churches for greater gospel impact.

Check out  https://bethechurch.org/ for more information.

On this episode of Dents in the Darkness, we sit down with Shane Pruitt to talk about the critical issues facing today’s young people. While this generation is navigating significant challenges, there is also real hope in what God is doing in and through them.

In our conversation, Shane shares insights from his book Not My Jesus, addressing how our culture often reshapes Jesus into our own image—and why restoring the biblical Jesus is essential for authentic discipleship. We also explore practical ways to disciple and minister to the next generation with truth, clarity, and compassion.

Shane Pruitt serves as the National Next Gen Director for the North American Mission Board (NAMB). With more than 20 years of ministry experience as a denominational leader, church planter, lead pastor, and student pastor, Shane brings deep wisdom and practical insight. He is also a traveling communicator, evangelist, and Bible teacher. Shane and his wife, Kasi, live in Texas with their five children.

      Books & Bible Studies

•  Not My Jesus – Bible Study Book with Video Access – 8-week study on reclaiming truth and rejecting cultural versions of Jesus:
   Lifeway listing: https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/not-my-jesus-teen-bible-study-book-with-video-access-P005850065
  

•  Reaching Generation Alpha: A Ministry Guide for Discipling the Church Beyond the Screen — upcoming book by Shane Pruitt & Shelly Melia (ministry to young children/Gen Alpha): https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/reaching-generation-alpha-shane-pruitt/1148263529

The GenSend Podcast – equipping leaders to reach, disciple, and mobilize the next generation (official GenSend podcast hosted in part by Shane Pruitt): https://www.gensend.org/leader-resources/

In this episode of Dents in the Darkness, host Michael Schooley (Converge Northeast & the Northeast Collaborative) is joined by NEC President- Pastor Dan Nichols of Grace Christian Fellowship (Cortland, NY) and Justin Bleuer of Berean Bible Church for a conversation centered on the Northeast Collaborative (NEC).

Together, they reflect on key celebrations from the past season, the stories of encouragement God is writing across the Northeast, and what is coming in 2026.

This episode also unpacks the heart behind NEC—why collaboration matters, how churches are stronger together, and the long-term vision for seeing healthy, gospel-centered churches planted and strengthened throughout the region.

If this episode encouraged you, consider subscribing to Dents in the Darkness, leaving a review, and sharing it with a pastor or church leader in the Northeast.

New episodes released monthly.

In this special episode of Dents in the Darkness, we bring you a live Q&A session with Dr. Crawford Loritts from the Northeast Leaders Summit 2025.

Dr. Loritts shares wisdom on perseverance, spiritual resilience, and what it takes to be a leader who finishes well in ministry. This conversation is rich with decades of pastoral experience, honest reflections, and practical encouragement for anyone called to lead.

• Why longevity in ministry matters now more than ever

• The foundational habits that sustain pastors and leaders

• How to navigate discouragement, criticism, and seasons of doubt

• The importance of character formation over platform building

• What Crawford has learned after a lifetime of preaching, shepherding, and leading

• Encouragement for younger leaders stepping into ministry today

Dr. Crawford Loritts was the main stage speaker at NLS 2025 and is a respected pastor, speaker, and leadership mentor who ministers across the country. He is the author of numerous books, including the influential Leadership as Identity. His decades of ministry experience have shaped a powerful voice for leaders seeking to remain faithful for the long haul.