Is the human body a marvel of chance, or a masterpiece of design? Our podcast investigates compelling biological systems and the scientific arguments suggesting an intelligent origin. Prepare to be amazed and challenged.
Transcript
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;02;26
Speaker 1
You could go. And then she can head.
00;00;02;29 - 00;00;03;23
Speaker 2
I have to be.
00;00;03;24 - 00;00;05;23
Speaker 1
There like someone I'm going to.
00;00;05;23 - 00;00;10;28
Speaker 2
Watch and see for themselves to bed. So, like, right here for the day are very dark, right?
00;00;11;00 - 00;00;14;28
Speaker 1
Like you said, it was.
00;00;15;00 - 00;00;19;29
Speaker 1
If you come in to live like this. Okay. This is for a few thousand dollar bill.
00;00;20;01 - 00;00;23;25
Speaker 3
And they're like, nope, we did the right thing. Appeal tonight.
00;00;23;27 - 00;00;45;14
Speaker 4
All right. We, pray, and we'll get started. I just want to thank you for this morning. You've given us, it's a beautiful spring morning. And just pray that you bless our conversation and that we would honor you and just, grow our an understanding of your grand design within our bodies, father. And, I pray these things in your name.
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Speaker 4
Amen.
00;00;46;12 - 00;00;49;17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;00;49;19 - 00;01;13;18
Speaker 4
All right. This month, we're building on our continuous theme here. And, we're going to be focusing on the human body. so evidences for design within the human body. And there's a lot to talk about. So we're only going to scratch the surface on it. there is a great book. I'm actually still reading it, but it's your designed body.
00;01;13;21 - 00;01;40;20
Speaker 4
it's highly detailed. And, it talks about how. So? It's written by a medical doctor and a systems engineer, and they collaborated to talk about how the body has various things that are very similar to system engineering and things that engineers use regularly to solve problems. and we see these same kind of patterns all throughout the body.
00;01;40;22 - 00;01;54;09
Speaker 4
But, you know, before we get started, maybe, I'll open it up a little bit and see what you guys like. What do you know about the human body? And, like, what fascinates you by the human body? What?
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Speaker 1
Its gross, you know, that's fair.
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Speaker 4
That is fair.
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Speaker 3
I work in a hospital.
00;02;01;01 - 00;02;02;25
Speaker 1
That's gross.
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Speaker 4
Yeah. You have a special perspective that.
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Speaker 1
Yeah.
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Speaker 4
Yeah. You know, that's probably the default, you know?
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Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. There's smells in there that you didn't know there.
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Speaker 1
It's funny.
00;02;22;22 - 00;02;56;09
Speaker 2
I think the fact that, that there's. So I mean, survival, right. We all have one. We all have body and it's there to maintain and sustain itself. And how so much of that is very delicate. And yet it functions with very little of our consciousness involved. Like, we don't need to think about breathing, except we are all male, blinking all of that.
00;02;56;15 - 00;03;29;26
Speaker 2
We have to make sure that we put water in it, food in it, probably move it around every now and again, maintain somewhat of proper hygiene, and the rest is completely automated. and you would think with something so complex, there would be far more, purposeful usage of it. Like, I think about a car, I think about, okay, this is where my brain just goes, mom, there's so many things that we function with today in our daily lives that are extremely complex, and we have to take really good care of them.
00;03;29;28 - 00;03;46;27
Speaker 2
Commissioner. People that are like mechanical engineers, taking care of, like, cars and other things. There's just so much that you have to do to maintain something so complex. And yet our bodies do it by, by themselves. In a sense. I think that's what fascinates me.
00;03;46;29 - 00;04;01;17
Speaker 3
I don't know if there's anything else that doesn't that like everything I like, even in the areas that we've tried to make crossovers of, like, let's make a manmade thing with biological aspects. Yeah, even those break down.
00;04;01;17 - 00;04;04;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. So fast.
00;04;04;15 - 00;04;27;06
Speaker 3
we just, like, haven't gotten past that. Or we can make that. It almost seems sort of like a form of, like, perpetual motion. If we were able to really make that crossover of making machines, so to speak, that can, you know, you put in like some food and water and they fix themselves in a meaningful like way that does work.
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Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 3
Everything requires our intervention to keep it function.
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Speaker 2
Yeah.
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Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting point. It makes me think of like once if you had to feed your phone, that'd be weird. But, you know, if it.
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Speaker 3
You know, it's like you're under like, the door in. Put it in. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
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Speaker 1
You know, and.
00;04;47;08 - 00;04;57;21
Speaker 2
Remember, the better. Okay. Better off ten. Yeah. Remember they create a machine that runs the building and like it, it like got stressed and had heartburn. And so like.
00;04;57;24 - 00;04;59;29
Speaker 1
Acid was like the walls and they.
00;04;59;29 - 00;05;03;13
Speaker 2
Were like, oh no, this is gonna be like oh my gosh. Yes.
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Speaker 4
Yeah I forgot about that.
00;05;05;13 - 00;05;07;01
Speaker 2
Now I remembered.
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Speaker 4
Yeah. It's true. No. Like our highest technology is nowhere close to being able to heal itself. Like we have some like metamaterials that can sort of self-heal, you know, or like, metals that when you heat them, they'll come back to their original shape. But, you know, nothing like the human body where, you know, we scratch ourselves or, whatnot.
00;05;32;16 - 00;05;35;16
Speaker 4
And it just heals over time. And it's like it never happened.
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Speaker 2
But it's it it's also interesting, though, that, I think like, transplants, skin grafting, things like that. You would think, like, if you take, if you take a car and a part of that car breaks down, like the muffler, let's say the muffler gets worn. It you could, in theory, get a muffler from another car and, like, finagle it a little bit to make it fit, and it would probably function okay.
00;06;06;26 - 00;06;33;14
Speaker 2
I'm not a mechanic. So if you are and you're like, no, Josiah, that's not true. You get what I'm saying? But, but you see, in the medical world that when somebody gets a new heart that they've already had and it's, it's the same functioning thing, there's rejection meds, you would think that replacing one functional, one not functioning part with a functioning part, that is the exact same thing wouldn't be so highly rejected.
00;06;33;14 - 00;06;57;21
Speaker 2
And yet it is because yeah, that tissue is what it needs. But it wasn't the same design tissue for that specific individual. And so there's something there which I'm sure a doctor could say. Yep. It's these things, white blood cells that, that that person's body is saying that's not mine. We can't use it, but I'll die if we don't have it.
00;06;57;21 - 00;06;59;27
Speaker 2
And yet it so rejects it.
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Speaker 4
Yeah.
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Speaker 5
Well, it's kind of like women who are pregnant and they're RH negative. Yep. Right. And their own body. Yep. Attacks the baby. Yep.
00;07;08;13 - 00;07;09;03
Speaker 1
Same kind of thing.
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Speaker 2
I was talking about that. That's why there's blood tests early and then like 1920s before people got married.
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Speaker 1
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
To determine if you have a like if you're RH negative, RH positive and try to have a kid, it could be dangerous plus syphilis.
00;07;20;24 - 00;07;24;24
Speaker 1
But that's another thing.
00;07;24;24 - 00;07;42;29
Speaker 4
is there any systems of the body that stand out to you as, like, super, well designed or like that you may have heard of as, like, hey, that's something that's really difficult to explain through evolutionary terms.
00;07;43;02 - 00;07;45;19
Speaker 5
One of my difficult to explain. But your brain is pretty cool.
00;07;45;26 - 00;07;46;18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
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Speaker 5
Like you can give someone a fake limb, and neuroplasticity kind of takes over and just makes it your own. you know, you figure out how to use it in your if you break something in your body that you, your body can fix or smart enough to figure out how to make things to fix our own body.
00;08;02;19 - 00;08;03;12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;08;03;14 - 00;08;33;25
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, the brain is highly complex. I mean, I think I put it in the email out that, like, yeah, it was a quote, to remember who I think it was. Arthur C Clarke. Yep. That said, you know, the the 3 pound mass in our heads is one of the most organized in self structure, pieces of matter in the universe that we know about.
00;08;33;28 - 00;08;58;28
Speaker 4
and that's true. Like, our brains are our, you know, we have some basic understanding on how they function with neurons firing and stuff like that, but, like deeper levels of, like, how consciousness works or even how, like various parts of the brain interact with each other. Like even like how our memories are stored is still an area of resource research.
00;08;59;00 - 00;09;24;12
Speaker 4
You know, it's not like a computer, system where it's like, oh, there's the hard drive that stores the data, there's the Ram that accesses it. it's it's, you know, there's obviously parts to it, but how those parts interact to form our the processing is pretty incredible and not fully understood.
00;09;24;15 - 00;09;25;05
Speaker 1
Simians, you.
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Speaker 5
Know, crazy things like dissociative identity.
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Speaker 1
Like.
00;09;29;08 - 00;09;31;08
Speaker 4
Dreams. Dream. Yeah.
00;09;31;10 - 00;09;32;23
Speaker 5
That's interesting.
00;09;32;25 - 00;09;36;10
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.
00;09;36;12 - 00;10;11;11
Speaker 2
Right. I immune system was amazing because it's able to take in information like vaccines or when you get ill and like in it you are introducing information to your body and your immune system is working through that in order to create what it needs to be a defense mechanism for that thing in the future. You know, like like cold and flu.
00;10;11;13 - 00;10;33;14
Speaker 2
evolve. Like every year it becomes something new. not that the old ones die out, but like, that's what viruses do. They're really good at it. Bacteria is really good at that. The virus, more viruses and bacteria very well. But, but when you like, you're taking your body and you're introducing more information into it and it's taking that instead of rejecting it, making you sick, which can happen.
00;10;33;14 - 00;10;47;21
Speaker 2
Side effects are real. but for the majority, you take it in in your body decodes like figures out how to use it efficiently, and then uses it for protection against something it's never experienced before.
00;10;47;23 - 00;11;26;29
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. That's that. The immune system. If you haven't dove into that we'll talk about a little bit more. if we have time because it is a fascinating one. but the immune system is highly complex and has a lot of pieces to it, and it's quite incredible in its engineering. so I think we've mentioned this term before in another class, but, there's a term called homeostasis and homeostasis is this idea that the human body has to maintain a stable internal environment despite external and internal changes.
00;11;27;01 - 00;11;55;07
Speaker 4
It's essentially our built in system for keeping things balanced. So like we. Have various external conditions that have to be managed. So let's think a simple one. or nothing that actually simple. But let's take us, an easy example of like temperature, right? Like, you know, we live in Iowa. It's guitar. It gets cold. and our bodies have to keep a certain balance.
00;11;55;07 - 00;12;25;04
Speaker 4
Right? We need to be at, 98.6 degrees. Good. Give or take, you know, and in our body is constantly trying to keep at that temperature despite it being -20 degrees outside or 100 degrees outside. And there are multiple systems involved in regulating our temperature. so we need a system to help cool us down or too hot and to warm us up when we're too cold.
00;12;25;06 - 00;12;41;19
Speaker 4
And it's not just one. There's multiple strategies that the body uses as things get more and more extreme. in if if any of those fail, you know, death is a consequence or a bad time at the very least.
00;12;41;21 - 00;12;42;26
Speaker 2
permanent damage.
00;12;42;29 - 00;13;13;12
Speaker 4
Or permanent damage. Yeah. And you think about that, that's an that is an engineering problem that we face with our machines. You know, I think about, you know, the International Space Station, it's up in space. It's has to have a homeostasis environment so that it can support the astronauts that are on there. And it needs to make sure that the, the, the space station stays at the right temperature so that the astronauts don't overheat.
00;13;13;14 - 00;13;37;00
Speaker 4
and, yeah, surprisingly, this is kind of maybe a side note, but like most people think that you would, like, freeze, before, you would, you know, if the space station went offline, you would think that astronauts with fridges could space is cold, but they would actually probably overheat. it's because that space, while it's cold, it's a vacuum.
00;13;37;03 - 00;13;59;20
Speaker 4
And you think about how your, fancy Yeti mug keeps things hot or cold. It had, you know, vacuum is a perfect insulation. There's not a lot of material there to transfer the heat. So what happens is, you know, a spacesuit or a space station or a spaceship that heat that the human body makes doesn't radiate out fast enough.
00;13;59;25 - 00;14;30;13
Speaker 4
So you end up with a heat problem, not a cooling problem. I know for you today, I guess, but, yeah, like, they're challenging problems. And if it's an engineering thing, you need certain components. And you see this for a lot of systems, right? You need a way to, since what's happening, you need sensors. So your body needs sensors to understand what temperature it.
00;14;30;15 - 00;14;48;08
Speaker 4
and there are various sensors throughout the body that give it information so that it can then make changes. And then those changes go into effect. And let's say it's too cold outside, and your body needs a warm up. So it'll increase your metabolism rate, which will make you warmer.
00;14;48;10 - 00;14;49;09
Speaker 2
Or you shiver.
00;14;49;12 - 00;15;19;10
Speaker 4
Or you shiver. and or both. Probably. so that system kicks on. Well, let's say you then go sit next to a fire. There needs to be, another system. Say, hey, we're warming up. We need to cancel that like cold, system that we turned on. And we need to, you know, we need to, you know, chill that out, and now maybe even go to, like, cooling down or something like that.
00;15;19;13 - 00;15;41;11
Speaker 4
and so you end up with these feedback systems. So feedback system is like, a big idea in engineering, where like you, you go to correct, you like your home thermostat is a great example of this. The thermostat tries to keep it at the, at the temperature you set, so it kicks on the heat and it goes up, and then it gets too far.
00;15;41;11 - 00;15;56;24
Speaker 4
So it turns off the heating and starts going back down. And then it kicks back on to go back up like your body does the same thing. It's this feedback mechanism of like knowing when to turn on the right systems and then when to turn them off so that you get into this very narrow range of compatibility.
00;15;56;27 - 00;16;03;02
Speaker 2
And furnaces have to get checked off every month so they don't break down in their bodies, just do it till we die. Yeah. Potentially. Or 90.
00;16;03;05 - 00;16;27;04
Speaker 4
Yeah. If the sensor goes wrong on your thermostat, then you're going to have trouble because it's going to not know what actual temperature it is and it'll stay on or stay off or whatever it may be. and like temperature is just one of hundreds of factors that your body has to calibrate within a fine, zone. You think about.
00;16;27;07 - 00;16;34;01
Speaker 4
well, maybe I'll throw it on to the question. What other systems can you think about that your body has to control?
00;16;34;03 - 00;16;41;07
Speaker 1
Heat waste management. And, you know, loosely.
00;16;41;09 - 00;16;45;24
Speaker 4
Yeah, I guess in production. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.
00;16;45;27 - 00;16;47;20
Speaker 5
oxygen saturation in your blood.
00;16;47;27 - 00;16;55;08
Speaker 4
That's another great. Yeah, it's another great one. Pitch balance. Yeah. Blood sugar, blood sugar balance.
00;16;55;09 - 00;16;56;16
Speaker 1
Hormones. Hormones.
00;16;56;16 - 00;17;24;29
Speaker 4
Yeah. All of these things are all have to be within certain ranges. and when they're not, you have since, you have problems, right? Like, that's really what a doctor is doing. It's like, okay, their blood pressure is too high. Why is the body not correcting for that or what is causing that? You know, and blood pressure is controlled by two major factors.
00;17;24;29 - 00;17;28;00
Speaker 4
One is your cardiac.
00;17;28;02 - 00;17;29;07
Speaker 1
pretty intense game system.
00;17;29;13 - 00;17;52;21
Speaker 4
Yeah. Your cardiac, cardiovascular system. But, like, how fast your heart is beating and how much blood is pumping, and then also the resistance of your, veins until, like, there's, there's friction in your brain, in your veins. And, you know, those two things cause can cause your blood pressure to on unbalance. And you know what? What is it?
00;17;52;27 - 00;18;06;16
Speaker 4
Which one is it in? And they have to kind of make a judgment there, you know, is it like your veins are full of plaque, so like, it's hard to pump through. or or are you stressed. You that anything.
00;18;06;16 - 00;18;07;24
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah.
00;18;08;01 - 00;18;09;08
Speaker 3
Correct behavior. Just taking this.
00;18;09;08 - 00;18;32;22
Speaker 4
Film. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what it comes down to. so yeah. Like that's that's what, that's the role of doctors quite, quite often. and, and all of these mechanisms have this, this, sweet zone, this Goldilocks zone that you need to be in. And the body has to, have the feedback mechanisms to keep it in there.
00;18;32;24 - 00;18;50;10
Speaker 4
And okay, let's think about this from a, evolutionary standpoint. What what makes that difficult to explain evolutionary wise? Like how do you like why would this be something that's hard to explain?
00;18;50;12 - 00;19;26;29
Speaker 2
I mean, it's it's that typical thing where, like like what you said, Josh, which is the acid in your stomach, let's say, illusion worked all the way up into, creature of any kind that now has a stomach. And one day, as that stomach is evolving, that acid level is too high. It dissolves the whole creature. how does that creature then pass information along to say that acid was too high?
00;19;26;29 - 00;19;49;24
Speaker 2
Don't do it again. Yeah. on top of being able to that there's so many systems that if we all know it, like, you get up one morning and you sneeze incorrectly and your whole body shudders because you throw on your back out, which then messes with your, like, digestion and like waste management because it hurts to sit on the potty now or whatever.
00;19;49;25 - 00;20;17;21
Speaker 2
Like there's just so much that can just go wrong that for it to go right. Yeah. Like it's a numbers game. Yeah, it's a pure numbers game. If something is going to survive and that complexity is intense, how on earth did did it all work out? It doesn't. See, it just doesn't seem to be a thing that could feasibly happen a ton of times.
00;20;17;21 - 00;20;25;23
Speaker 2
Like so many times. there's too much failure involved that just ends it immediately.
00;20;25;26 - 00;20;27;03
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00;20;27;05 - 00;20;29;28
Speaker 4
I think, yeah. You hit on a lot of.
00;20;30;01 - 00;20;31;11
Speaker 2
it was not very eloquent.
00;20;31;13 - 00;21;28;04
Speaker 4
No, but you hit on one of the main ideas, like there's a high number of dependencies, like within the system itself, there's subsystems. And then each system has dependencies on other systems. And you have something that's not, correct in any of those. And things fall apart, you know that. And we see that even today with illnesses that throw off a system and then like, that's it, you know, like that's that's all it takes, sort of like minor problems can cause, catastrophic failures and it takes a very finely balanced and precision crafted, machine for it to work that way, you know, like, that's why, you know, like our high technology world, it doesn't
00;21;28;04 - 00;21;39;04
Speaker 4
take much to mess up. a computer, you know, like, physically, like, if you drop it, or, you know, it.
00;21;39;04 - 00;21;39;18
Speaker 1
Gets wet.
00;21;39;20 - 00;22;01;14
Speaker 4
It gets wet, or like, there's a lot of conditions that, it can't handle. and it doesn't have a way to recover from that sort of kind of catastrophic. You think of the gears in a launch, you know, you barely bend a single tooth in one of those gears, and the thing seizes that it takes very little to, to make it off.
00;22;01;14 - 00;22;27;12
Speaker 4
So, like, all those pieces have to be there. And that gets back to the idea of irreducible complexity. Like it's it's just like the mouse trap. It needs every single one of those parts to work in function. And before it's effectively able to do its purpose. and our bodies are that times, a billion probably. we'll start talking about some of the specific systems in the body.
00;22;27;14 - 00;23;03;08
Speaker 4
one of the poster child for irreducible complexity is the human eye. And, it's said that we process about 80% of the information we process comes from our, our vision. so it's a pretty important, part of our existence. and, but the AI is very complex. It has many, many different specialized cells that are not used anywhere else in the body.
00;23;03;10 - 00;23;30;22
Speaker 4
you know, I think it's probably like 5 or 6 different types of cells. You got the wrong cells and the, cone cells and, the there's many more that have, various names, but, they, they all have to be in just the right way for vision to work. And you need, you need a lens to focus the vision onto the retina.
00;23;30;24 - 00;23;58;12
Speaker 4
and you need, the cornea to protect the eye. because it's a sensitive organ, you need muscles and, a structure to hold all these things together, so that you can look around, and even probably one of the hardest things explain is, so you have all these cells in the, in your retina that are photosensitive, sensitive.
00;23;58;17 - 00;24;21;23
Speaker 4
And when light, when a photon comes in and hits, like a rod or a cone that deforms that cell, which then causes an electrical signal to go to your brain, and you have, you know, millions of these cells in your eye that then your brain is getting all of this information, but your brain has to know what to do with that information, right?
00;24;21;23 - 00;24;45;19
Speaker 4
Because that, you know, that that's just raw information. That's just electrical signals. and if you don't have a, brain to interpret that signal, then it's not helping you at all. Right? And, you know, your brain does a lot for your vision, you know, so much so that, like, you know, like our vision is upside down and backwards and your brain corrects for that.
00;24;45;21 - 00;25;15;06
Speaker 4
You have a blind spot where your optical nerve and meets your, your retina. And like, you don't see that your brain like photoshops it. which is crazy that your brain does that. Like your, your brain is like a, you know, it's it's it's fascinating how much it corrects for, and like, you know, there's always those, like, little tricks that you can do to kind of exploit your eyes.
00;25;15;09 - 00;25;25;20
Speaker 4
biases. And, I can't remember any off the top of my head, but, you know, like, there's a way you can, like, hold your thumb down and, like, you'd like, disappears because your brain has no,
00;25;25;22 - 00;25;27;07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00;25;27;07 - 00;25;52;03
Speaker 4
Pulling your fingers out. Yeah. but, yeah, like like processing that information is is quite, taxing. and, like, it just is automatic. Like, you're not thinking about it, right? You're not like, oh, I need to run that process so I can interpret the visual information coming from my. I just happens.
00;25;52;05 - 00;25;58;04
Speaker 2
I mean, if it works well, if it's worse contacts or glasses, you know what happens when it does? Like.
00;25;58;06 - 00;26;00;29
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;26;01;02 - 00;26;38;12
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like the, the, so evolutionary like, so since this is a poster child for, irreducible complexity, there's a lot of, ideas on how I could evolved. And I think we've touched on this in the past, but, you know, evolutionary, proponents will say, you know, it probably started out as a cluster of light sensitive cells, like, very simple.
00;26;38;18 - 00;26;40;27
Speaker 3
And those came from where.
00;26;40;29 - 00;26;41;13
Speaker 4
You know, they.
00;26;41;15 - 00;26;42;21
Speaker 1
They, they.
00;26;42;23 - 00;26;45;01
Speaker 4
They came from random mutations. Okay.
00;26;45;06 - 00;26;45;26
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;26;45;29 - 00;27;01;01
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a luck of the draw, you know, got some of. Yeah. Yeah. You got some light sensitive photons and that helps you you know, you can't really.
00;27;01;01 - 00;27;01;14
Speaker 1
See.
00;27;01;14 - 00;27;36;07
Speaker 4
Anything, but you can, like, sense that it's brighter over here than it is over here. And so, like, you know, if you're looking for if you're an organism that's looking to eat algae, you might want to go towards the light, because light is also what makes algae grow. So you're more likely to find food. And then, you know, as you evolve, you get some more changes and maybe you develop, like a cornea over that so that, you know, it protects it better because, you know, your relatives, went blind pretty quickly.
00;27;36;09 - 00;28;05;19
Speaker 4
but you have that cornea, so now you're more likely to reproduce, and then you get, more, you get a bunch of these, mutations and then specialized the cells. And, that's kind of how you do it in. You know, I think that sounds plausible, but is that like, that's a possibility on how it could happen, but what are the evidences for that to happen?
00;28;05;22 - 00;28;11;11
Speaker 2
And the little brain cell that grew. Little blueberry pancake.
00;28;11;13 - 00;28;12;14
Speaker 4
That's. Yeah.
00;28;12;16 - 00;28;14;10
Speaker 2
You're saying it did it, but.
00;28;14;11 - 00;28;15;21
Speaker 4
How revolutionary.
00;28;15;26 - 00;28;41;26
Speaker 2
Exactly. Because it's like, reading through that, I would be curious to know because I haven't seen much since we talked about it, last month, but, how did they determine that they were functioning and pulling in information and not like tumors? Yeah, right. They're like, look, eyeball. So it's like, okay, cool. Are you sure? Like, what are they doing?
00;28;41;29 - 00;28;57;26
Speaker 2
but yeah. What what was their. They would have to be information in there. It wasn't an evolutionary thing because they were like, look, brain cells, boom eyeballs. There was no time like hundreds and hundreds of years for that brain to figure it out, for those cells to determine. Now we need eyeball cells. Some sense.
00;28;57;26 - 00;28;58;23
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;28;58;26 - 00;28;59;29
Speaker 2
They just were there.
00;29;00;04 - 00;29;18;12
Speaker 4
Yeah. And and I think that also I mean, I would even argue the, the fact that those, neurons that were basically incubated started growing eyes shows that the eyes in the brain are highly connected.
00;29;18;12 - 00;29;19;02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;29;19;04 - 00;29;25;23
Speaker 4
And are fundamentally part of what brains need. Yeah. Like our brains.
00;29;25;25 - 00;29;26;07
Speaker 2
Need.
00;29;26;07 - 00;29;38;08
Speaker 4
To process and experience the reality we live in. And it's like fundamentally baked into the, what makes a brain brain is that it needs sensory input.
00;29;38;11 - 00;29;40;02
Speaker 2
Why wouldn't you know anything?
00;29;40;02 - 00;29;46;01
Speaker 3
I can't hear any of this without. That's like, you know, but why? What? You know, like, what's the what's right?
00;29;46;01 - 00;29;47;12
Speaker 4
What what drives it, right?
00;29;47;12 - 00;29;56;28
Speaker 3
I mean, like, its survival. I mean, it's survival. I don't know if too many people like, really like you really? Yeah.
00;29;57;05 - 00;30;21;24
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, I think that's a, I think how evolutionary science would have to answer that is there is no why. It's just random accidents that help you survive. Like the why is no longer irrelevant question like teleology, which is like like the purpose of things. like there is basically a useless area to go down because there is no purpose in anything.
00;30;21;26 - 00;30;45;14
Speaker 4
And like that's why you hear some scientists call us like fleshy robots because we're, that's that's basically how they see us. they see themselves. We're just accidental machines that are biological in nature that really have no purpose. except to, you know, survive is maybe the only right.
00;30;45;14 - 00;30;50;16
Speaker 3
But, yeah, I mean, that's still, like, still drives down to the that's still that's like, well, why don't.
00;30;50;16 - 00;30;51;07
Speaker 4
We want to still.
00;30;51;09 - 00;31;08;20
Speaker 3
Struggle? Why like, well survival is like okay, well that's still why it's on teleology. it is still relevant because you're still like whether you want to admit it or not, there's still a why it doesn't have to be necessarily transcendent, but it still exists.
00;31;08;23 - 00;31;31;08
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I think if you keep pushing, I think they would end up saying that, the why is because we exist. Like it's almost circular logic, you know, where like, like I, you know, I think this not only applies to life, but also just the universe in itself. Like we just happened to find ourselves in the series of events that led to our existence.
00;31;31;11 - 00;31;37;27
Speaker 4
And like, there's no why behind it. It's just we happened to be in. And that's why they lean towards like.
00;31;37;29 - 00;31;38;27
Speaker 3
even the weird, like.
00;31;38;28 - 00;31;44;27
Speaker 4
Multi universe stuff and like, they need a ton of chances. It's just like, oh, this is just.
00;31;45;00 - 00;31;45;18
Speaker 2
We're here because.
00;31;45;19 - 00;31;56;17
Speaker 4
You roll the dice enough times and things just happen the way they happened. Right. You know. And that's what you have to come down to in. Right. It's not a satisfying answer at all because like that goes against.
00;31;56;21 - 00;32;02;17
Speaker 3
Another chance and happened. And luck were actual forces in the universe that accomplish anything.
00;32;02;19 - 00;32;25;07
Speaker 2
Yeah I appreciate it. I don't was it John Linux that said it I can't remember. Somebody said it probably wasn't him anyway, for that materialistic mindset of like, well, we're all just what they call like meat bags with like, hormone electrons bouncing around in our brains, and that's all we are. the next question was like, then why should I trust anything you're saying?
00;32;25;12 - 00;32;46;24
Speaker 2
Like, if you're if what's happening up here is just electrons bouncing around to keep this meat bag alive, and you're telling me how that is? Why should I trust what's, like, these random sparks in your brain like that? Doesn't like your logic, doesn't come to a like to a appropriate conclusion from your own perspective, which I was like, oh, that makes sense.
00;32;46;25 - 00;32;57;26
Speaker 2
Like that's a that's a decent, not necessary argument, but just observation for that kind of mindset. And I think that they just ignore it. There's like no thank you.
00;32;57;29 - 00;32;58;27
Speaker 1
You're like, okay.
00;32;59;00 - 00;33;00;06
Speaker 3
You're dumb.
00;33;00;09 - 00;33;06;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like you just don't understand. Like so I was like, we both don't understand, but okay.
00;33;06;08 - 00;33;35;07
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I mean eyes are complex, but, you know, it doesn't stop there. our ears are arguably just as complex. in our hearing. So. Ears, the shape of our ears is important. like the various folds and, you know, structure of ears helps us determine, the direction of sound, because the sound waves pass through your ears in different, way.
00;33;35;08 - 00;34;11;05
Speaker 4
Like, you know, anywhere. It's thinner, it passes through easier where it's thicker, it doesn't. And your brain interprets that and like, does some fancy algorithm apparently that helps you detect the direction of the sound. not only that, our brains are capable of distinguishing, within, like, very fine, like very short amount of time. The difference in, like, my left ear will hear Josh before my right ear does, and it'll then conclude that it came from that direction.
00;34;11;07 - 00;34;46;15
Speaker 4
our ear structure is, has, you know, the three smallest bones in the human body and those tiny little bones in your ear. Translate, air vibrations into your inner ear, which then, is more its fluid base. So it, like, hits the drum. And then that, moves the fluid in your ear, to then go past all those little tiny hair, is that then get vibe like each tiny little hair is just the right length for a certain frequency.
00;34;46;22 - 00;35;12;17
Speaker 4
So when the frequency hits the little hair in your ear, for lack of a better term, like that triggers a certain frequency of sound. And then your brain interprets that as hearing. and that's just the oversimplified version of how you hear, like some interesting things about the ear as well. Those three little bones in your, ear, they do not grow like when you born.
00;35;12;17 - 00;35;32;16
Speaker 4
They are the same size as when you die. and like, that's the only part of your body that doesn't grow. How did that evolve? Right? Like, how did those three bones know not to grow in every part of the rest of your body knows that, like, grows it like we don't know.
00;35;32;18 - 00;35;33;04
Speaker 1
evolved.
00;35;33;04 - 00;35;34;04
Speaker 2
Perfectly the first time.
00;35;34;09 - 00;35;34;21
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;35;34;21 - 00;35;36;05
Speaker 2
No changes needed.
00;35;36;07 - 00;35;37;14
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
00;35;37;17 - 00;35;41;21
Speaker 5
It reminds me when someone said that words are wiggly. Er.
00;35;41;23 - 00;35;44;00
Speaker 1
It's true. It's 100% true.
00;35;44;00 - 00;35;46;01
Speaker 5
We're just interpreting wiggly. Er.
00;35;46;07 - 00;35;47;13
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
00;35;47;15 - 00;35;50;08
Speaker 5
It's whatever it means of communication.
00;35;50;13 - 00;35;56;24
Speaker 2
When our eyeballs are just converting light, bouncing off of other things. We're not actually seeing anything. We're seeing the light bouncing on like that.
00;35;56;26 - 00;36;03;02
Speaker 4
We're seeing the light. A small fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum. Yeah. And interpreting it as visual information to.
00;36;03;02 - 00;36;03;19
Speaker 1
Blind.
00;36;03;24 - 00;36;06;04
Speaker 2
What is reality next class.
00;36;06;06 - 00;36;10;08
Speaker 1
That's it. Right. That's that's philosophy. Sorry. We'll get into that.
00;36;10;08 - 00;36;20;10
Speaker 3
And that's when he talks about like the blind spot in our eyes. And then that begs the question of like, well then if that's true that there is that blind spot in your brain is photoshopping that, then how can you trust that?
00;36;20;13 - 00;36;20;25
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;36;20;27 - 00;36;21;10
Speaker 2
What do you see?
00;36;21;17 - 00;36;23;19
Speaker 5
Eyewitness testimony is not. Yeah.
00;36;23;21 - 00;36;24;12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;36;24;15 - 00;36;29;20
Speaker 4
Yeah. How much of your senses can you really trust? Yeah, that's a interesting one.
00;36;29;20 - 00;36;39;09
Speaker 2
Jesus says bring more people to the situation. Yeah. Like, don't just be by yourself. Bring 1 or 2 or 2 or 3 of you.
00;36;39;12 - 00;36;43;09
Speaker 3
Ridiculous. Like can good on that one. What is truth.
00;36;43;09 - 00;36;46;21
Speaker 1
And what is reality? Whatever. We're on.
00;36;46;21 - 00;36;47;15
Speaker 4
The 16.
00;36;47;15 - 00;36;48;13
Speaker 3
Hundreds philosopher.
00;36;48;18 - 00;36;49;08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;36;49;10 - 00;36;56;25
Speaker 4
On the way here, I was talking to Charles. Once we finish through some of this stuff, I'd actually like to move into philosophy. And there's a great.
00;36;56;26 - 00;36;57;20
Speaker 1
Need for.
00;36;57;22 - 00;36;58;04
Speaker 4
Structure.
00;36;58;10 - 00;37;01;22
Speaker 1
No, no, no, I know, I know, I love it, I know, yeah.
00;37;01;24 - 00;37;10;28
Speaker 4
You know, like talking about the various Western philosophers and, like, what, the various ideas they've had over time and how that's changed. I think that'll be a really interesting thing to dive into.
00;37;11;00 - 00;37;11;27
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00;37;11;29 - 00;37;14;20
Speaker 2
We'll just bring camomile tea so we all leave like.
00;37;14;22 - 00;37;19;06
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah, everything's okay. Everything is okay. It was.
00;37;19;08 - 00;37;19;25
Speaker 4
a ray of.
00;37;19;25 - 00;37;23;27
Speaker 1
Hope. Yes. Everyone will get existential dread. If we.
00;37;23;27 - 00;37;27;13
Speaker 2
All live. We're like, nothing is worth it anymore.
00;37;27;15 - 00;37;28;29
Speaker 4
Especially if we talk about Nietzsche.
00;37;28;29 - 00;37;30;20
Speaker 1
No,
00;37;30;23 - 00;38;10;17
Speaker 4
It's so another interesting aspect of human life in in most. Well, actually, not most life. reproduction. So most life is cellular in nature, bacteria and stuff like that. And they, reproduce in a process called mitosis, which is a pretty complex process within itself, where the cell has to create an exact copy of itself and copy its DNA and structures, and then it divides, which is an incredibly complex orchestration of events.
00;38;10;20 - 00;38;37;14
Speaker 4
there's a lot of things that can go wrong in mitosis, and that's actually where a lot of, if I remember correctly, a lot of antibacterial or antibiotics, they mess with the mitosis functions because it's a, it's an area of vulnerability. I think a lot of them mess with the cell walls. So when, when the cell is dividing, it has to, keep, homeostasis.
00;38;37;14 - 00;39;02;21
Speaker 4
Right. But it's dividing. So how do you keep how do you separate and keep homeostasis. What's the cell wall. And there's a lot of complex biochemistry that happens to enable that without the both the cells dying. and antibiotics a lot of times mess with that process and the cell wall fails and then the both cells die and you can't get reproduction.
00;39;02;24 - 00;39;23;14
Speaker 4
so, you know, and then in evolutionary terms, bacteria and in single celled organisms are more simple. And we evolved from those. So why did sexual reproduction happen? what is the advantages of sexual reproduction from an evolutionary standpoint?
00;39;23;18 - 00;39;25;00
Speaker 5
Genetic diversity.
00;39;25;03 - 00;39;30;23
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. genetic diversity. Excuse me.
00;39;30;25 - 00;39;32;29
Speaker 5
Meiosis versus mitosis.
00;39;33;02 - 00;40;23;24
Speaker 4
Yeah. Good. Good terminology. So like. Yeah. Genetic diversity. genome repair. So like if there's, errors in the genome, then like, it can be corrected through, you know, joining to together. What are the difficulties or like why. if you think about it like why what's the advantages other than that? Like, how does a cell get to the point where it has a counterpart cell that it joins with shares information combines that DNA to create a unique thing.
00;40;23;27 - 00;40;29;12
Speaker 2
And then usually that turns into cancer. And everybody's like, that doesn't usually end well.
00;40;29;15 - 00;40;51;12
Speaker 4
Yeah. Like how did the first meiosis cell begin? Right. Like you needed that. You really needed the counterpart to evolve at the exact same time and, and then find each other and then it go forward like that. Seems difficult to say the least.
00;40;51;15 - 00;40;55;06
Speaker 5
Does that happen in asexual reproduction, I wonder?
00;40;56;09 - 00;41;26;08
Speaker 4
I so yeah, most most. So there's only a few examples of asexual reproduction in nature, and I'd have to look into it in detail. But I, I think what happens is those animals end up, having both sides of the equation and like just happening within its own body. it, I think it's still, meiosis like meiosis thing, but just within itself.
00;41;26;10 - 00;41;28;10
Speaker 4
but I could be wrong. I'd have to look into that more.
00;41;28;16 - 00;41;49;12
Speaker 2
I think that's usually the case. And it's like there was I don't know, I think it was late last year, there was an article that popped out and like, I, I think a few, I think it went very far, but a few evolutionary like, hurrah! People were like, see what it's happening? It's right there. there was a male at a zoo.
00;41;49;15 - 00;41;50;28
Speaker 2
I think it was a monkey.
00;41;50;28 - 00;41;52;00
Speaker 1
It could have been a panda.
00;41;52;00 - 00;42;12;16
Speaker 2
I'm not sure I know it was a mammal that got pregnant, had been in its cage all by itself for years. Years and years and years and years all alone. And then they went to check in on it one day, and it was pregnant. Like, what in the world? So they were like, look, it's happening like like mammals are evolving to get pregnant all by themselves.
00;42;12;23 - 00;42;37;07
Speaker 2
And it turns out. They're this is gonna sound so inappropriate, but it's what happened. There was a hole between cages, and she got pregnant by the male creature next door, and they just were like, can't it look, instead of jumping to a rational conclusion of, like, we know how the female mammal gets pregnant, it doesn't happen by itself.
00;42;37;14 - 00;42;47;05
Speaker 2
They literally jumped right to it when like, right next door was like the male counterpart and were like, there's no way. There's just no way. And turns out, yeah, someone figured it out and.
00;42;47;06 - 00;42;48;24
Speaker 3
I found a way.
00;42;48;27 - 00;42;49;27
Speaker 2
Always does.
00;42;49;27 - 00;42;53;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. Where there's a will, there's a way that.
00;42;53;19 - 00;43;08;25
Speaker 2
But like that article popped out and it was I followed it for a while because I was like, there's no way there's no way. And they were like, look, it's amazing. It's a miracle. It's wonderful. And they're like, oh, dang. Nope. It was just the same old, same old. I was like, guys, guys, wait and see, wait and see.
00;43;08;25 - 00;43;12;01
Speaker 2
There's gotta be rational explanation for it. And there was.
00;43;12;03 - 00;43;37;27
Speaker 4
Yeah. So like one of the challenges for evolutionary science is it's double the effort with half the offspring. So you think about that. Like from an evolutionary standpoint, the goal is reproduction. Just the to reproduce your genes going forward. Well, now that you have sexual reproduction you're only passing for half your genes. And you need all of this special equipment to do so.
00;43;38;00 - 00;44;13;13
Speaker 4
and that's not efficient for copying your genes. beneficial mutations get deluded. So, as you know, evolution is happening. You get, you know, let's use the example. You get a creature that randomly got a cluster of light sensitive cells. Great. It reproduces with one that doesn't have that because it happened once, because it's a freak mutation.
00;44;13;15 - 00;44;26;08
Speaker 4
now that offspring, the offspring is, you know, that that special tweak is getting diluted, and the offspring may or may not have those that that mutation.
00;44;26;09 - 00;44;38;07
Speaker 2
You look at colorblindness, it's a male trait, and gets passed from the male gene. Like that's not beneficial to be colorblind sex is true. Totally is.
00;44;38;10 - 00;44;58;11
Speaker 4
Fortunately, actually, there is some benefit to being colorblind technically. So when you're colorblind, you actually sense motion better. So they say it's actually advantageous for hunting. And that's why a lot of carnivores are colorblind, like dogs. it helps them see motion and focus on that versus, color, which.
00;44;58;11 - 00;45;20;00
Speaker 2
Helps. But it's a huge thing, right? In a society where color is quite beneficial, such as if I eat that tree frog that's very brightly colored, or that mushroom that's the wrong color, I'm going to die. So color seems to be extremely important for the human species. Yeah. And yet we continuously pass on a garbage trait.
00;45;20;02 - 00;45;21;04
Speaker 4
No.
00;45;21;07 - 00;45;31;17
Speaker 2
Yeah. So sexual reproduction, humans doesn't seem to be as beneficial if you're looking at it from beneficial mutations. Yep. Getting diluted.
00;45;31;20 - 00;45;32;03
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;45;32;03 - 00;45;39;28
Speaker 5
And we're more animalistic and get rid of the offspring. Yeah. That had non beneficial traits. We wouldn't keep passing them.
00;45;40;00 - 00;45;42;26
Speaker 2
potentially just but hold.
00;45;42;26 - 00;45;43;22
Speaker 3
On we're getting there.
00;45;43;23 - 00;45;58;03
Speaker 2
But for that to happen you have to raise them long enough to teach them language to determine that they're not saying colors appropriately. And you've wasted resources on that child up until maybe age, what, 4 or 5? So even then, that's not even beneficial.
00;45;58;03 - 00;45;59;29
Speaker 3
We're in down syndrome.
00;46;00;04 - 00;46;01;28
Speaker 2
Right? Right away. I don't like you that.
00;46;02;00 - 00;46;28;02
Speaker 4
Well, I mean, in in that is a interesting side effect. So if you take so if you're an evolutionary scientist, eugenics becomes almost a conclusion, like a, like, like if you're going to be consistent in your thinking and how things go, you're going to lean more towards the eugenics program. But very few, evolutionists do because of the morality of it.
00;46;28;04 - 00;46;41;10
Speaker 4
It's it's there's something like written on their hearts or something that keeps them weird doing that. but, you know, you see it in history, like, the Nazi regime, like, they were like. Yeah, eugenics. Like.
00;46;41;13 - 00;46;44;24
Speaker 1
I mean, the United States did it. The at the time.
00;46;45;00 - 00;46;46;24
Speaker 4
It's true. They're just more subtle.
00;46;46;27 - 00;46;47;29
Speaker 1
It's not a Planned Parenthood.
00;46;48;03 - 00;47;14;02
Speaker 2
It goes it goes back further than that. The like Romans like like Christian during during the Roman Empire. Like if they had a weak child, if the, if a Roman mother gave birth to a child and that child seemed weak or was female for that matter, they would just set it outside and wait for the elements to kill the baby, because it was it was weak and it was Christian individuals that would come around and rescue them.
00;47;14;04 - 00;47;38;19
Speaker 2
Yeah. And like that's kind of where some, some informal adopt like that Christian I don't know. Anyway, historical stuff. But even then, like it just simply was you're not useful. And it wasn't politically minded. It was simply they were like, you're not you're not a person, you're a resource taker, and you're not beneficial to us. We'll just put you outside, let nature take its course.
00;47;38;19 - 00;47;53;16
Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean, it it when you logically conclude, if you logically conclude that humanity is just flesh robots, right, then the value of life is meaningless and you might as well make it. It's strong so it can survive.
00;47;53;20 - 00;47;58;02
Speaker 2
The war should be an option. You should just be able to get rid of your spouse or child.
00;47;58;03 - 00;48;07;17
Speaker 4
I mean, if you if you keep if you keep moving it forward, like you don't even pick your spouse, right? Like you just it's it it's like cattle breeding at that point, you know, like.
00;48;07;17 - 00;48;10;00
Speaker 2
Just pass along genetic meaning. Yeah. Information in.
00;48;10;00 - 00;48;22;10
Speaker 4
The long. Yeah. So yeah, there's there's, morally like difficult things when you start saying that humans are nothing more than accidental creations.
00;48;22;11 - 00;48;28;22
Speaker 2
Peter Singer is that his name? Yeah. Peter singer yeah. Read his stuff if you wonder what people think.
00;48;28;23 - 00;48;36;11
Speaker 4
Yeah. So Peter Singer, he's a he's a I think he calls himself a philosopher, but he, he has some interesting thoughts.
00;48;36;13 - 00;48;37;06
Speaker 2
He's consistent.
00;48;37;13 - 00;49;07;19
Speaker 4
He, he's someone who is consistent in his thinking but has a non-Christian outlook. So he basically like on abortion, he says abortion is, silly because there's there's no difference between, like what is passing. I think a wave races what is passing through the cervix due to a baby that makes them a human being. but instead of saying, hey, that's a that's a reason why not to have abortion, he says, let's take it further.
00;49;07;21 - 00;49;14;22
Speaker 4
Like, if that child is not wanted after birth, emphasized like or he supports infantile.
00;49;14;25 - 00;49;38;11
Speaker 2
Or like a two year old four year old, if at any point in time that because it's wanted and what is a wanted individual probably someone that is contributing to society or to your family in a beneficial way. When does a kid actually do that past their parents just being like, you just bring me fulfillment. They bring no money, they take resources, they take sleep, they they take for a very long time.
00;49;38;14 - 00;49;48;07
Speaker 2
And so if at any point in time that becomes too much for an adult to bear, then then getting rid of that child at any point should be acceptable.
00;49;48;10 - 00;49;48;27
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;49;48;29 - 00;50;04;03
Speaker 2
Because there's nothing beneficial about them until they either can breed or bring money or bring resource. Like it's just the logical conclusion. If life is not important, then it's all about fulfilling society's need for.
00;50;04;04 - 00;50;08;16
Speaker 4
X, Y. Yeah, is morally injectable is I am with his conclusions.
00;50;08;18 - 00;50;09;16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;50;09;19 - 00;50;33;22
Speaker 4
I actually respect his, view more just because he's consistent in his thinking. Yeah. Like he's not dumb delusional. He's saying that there's something different with, baby inside and outside because, you know, a lot of, a lot of times people say, well, a baby is dependent on its mother when it's in the womb. The baby is dependent on its mother when it's outside the womb.
00;50;33;24 - 00;50;54;18
Speaker 4
Like a baby is not going to survive without their mother, or a caretaker. It's still fully dependent, like nothing has changed from it being inside to out. and he's like, you know, he just has the opposite conclusion in saying that, like, life doesn't have meaning in itself. Life only has meaning for those like we give things meaning.
00;50;54;18 - 00;51;02;05
Speaker 4
So no one is wanting them. Then you know. Yeah. Why not?
00;51;02;08 - 00;51;02;28
Speaker 3
Euthanasia.
00;51;03;01 - 00;51;08;19
Speaker 2
Absolutely yes. Because at what point are you no longer wanted by society, even when you've lived your whole life?
00;51;08;21 - 00;51;27;08
Speaker 4
Yeah. You're just a drain on the system, right? Yeah, yeah. It gets super complicated and like, well, you know, thank God that he put morality on our hearts. Because if he hadn't, I think those eugenics and all like it would have like nothing would have stopped in it. But you know that moral.
00;51;27;12 - 00;51;46;28
Speaker 2
Well, you look at China in the one child law. Like, what does that look like when it plays out even even just in, in childhood. Right. Because during that time and they're, they're reaping the consequences, unfortunately of that now where there's not enough women for all of the single men and those women are not wanting to have babies and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00;51;46;28 - 00;52;10;27
Speaker 2
But during that time they were like, you can have one child and it was only beneficial to have a son. So all of those female babies, they were killed or they were hidden or they were hurt in terrible ways or thrown into orphanages, etc.. And and it's from a place of like life, life's not important. And these babies must have purpose.
00;52;10;27 - 00;52;33;16
Speaker 2
And purpose was like having an heir. And that heir would have to be a man, a boy like, oh, it's intense, but you can see how that plays out. And there's other societies from historical past. Or if we dig deep enough, you can see like what happens. Like we're not the first society to have these conversations and thoughts and then to do something with them.
00;52;33;21 - 00;52;35;07
Speaker 4
No, I mean, I think all right.
00;52;35;10 - 00;52;36;11
Speaker 2
Now that you said no.
00;52;36;15 - 00;52;39;07
Speaker 4
Our society today is moving more towards a pagan.
00;52;39;14 - 00;52;40;13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;52;40;15 - 00;53;05;25
Speaker 4
Mindset religion without knowing it. Yeah. in a lot of ways. Yeah. But that's a, that's another topic. Again. so we talked a little bit about the cardiovascular system, but there's a lot going there. Right. Like there's a lot, you know, blood is associated with life for good reason. in the heart is a key component of our bodies.
00;53;05;25 - 00;53;36;18
Speaker 4
And it has historically always been known to for that, the heart actually, you know, so it's made of muscle, but it's a unique kind of muscle, that has a special clump of cells that, triggers the a, atria to contract. So, like, there's a clump, but there's a, there's a special area of cells in the heart that controls the heart rate, basically.
00;53;36;20 - 00;54;09;08
Speaker 4
and there's like, yeah, yeah. exactly. In that, that is unique to the heart. And, is critical for regulating blood pressure and making sure the body has the, the, the blood pumping through it. I think we have something like 60,000 miles of veins for, for our home to pump, pump through body. I think that's the I think that's what I read.
00;54;09;08 - 00;54;15;04
Speaker 4
I didn't note it down, but it's it's a lot. Whatever the specific number is, is a lot.
00;54;15;07 - 00;54;16;02
Speaker 1
the 50,000.
00;54;16;04 - 00;54;44;02
Speaker 4
Yeah. 60,000 miles of veins in our bodies that our heart has to pump blood to, which is just incredible when you think about it. one of the interesting things, that I found is so iron is key to latching on to oxygen in the lungs. capillaries. Right. iron is what carries oxygen in the blood throughout the body.
00;54;44;04 - 00;55;24;01
Speaker 4
The problem, though, is iron is toxic when it's present in the, in the body free form. Like if you just have iron flowing through your body. that's toxic and can kill you. So, what happened? what, you know, designed or evolved there, you know, the you be the judge is hemoglobin, which is a special protein, was specially created in red blood cells to capture and hold onto iron so that it doesn't freely flow throughout the body.
00;55;24;04 - 00;55;51;15
Speaker 4
And it's a very, structured protein that has a very, clear, you know, shape so that it can hold on to iron so that then that iron can grab on to the oxygen, and you have this hemoglobin with iron and oxygen, and then that can take it throughout the body. So you can think of a how does hemoglobin hemoglobin evolve.
00;55;51;17 - 00;56;21;16
Speaker 4
Because you know there's this problem with iron being toxic. so life couldn't have used like you couldn't have had blood working the way we know it works without hemoglobin. So then how do you oxygenate the body? You get this, quickly. You get this chicken in a problem, and that, you know, there's not a good answer to.
00;56;21;19 - 00;56;51;18
Speaker 4
So another challenge for our cardiovascular system is we are not static beings, so we move around an activity, we do activities, you know, and, when we start, stressing our bodies with running or going around, whatever it might be, we need more oxygen. So the system has to, move up and you kind of get this feedback and thing again, right?
00;56;51;18 - 00;57;23;15
Speaker 4
Where, like, as you increase your activity, you have higher O2 demands in there, sensors in the body that, that, measure O2 levels and have the body respond to that so that it all continues to work despite having more of a strain. And not only that, like, our body position changes the.
00;57;23;17 - 00;57;55;05
Speaker 4
Like pressure. So, like, when you hold your hand up in the air, your heart has to work a tiny bit harder to pump blood up there. you know, if you, if you invert yourself, you know, blood kind of rushes your head, but it doesn't, like, kill you, because your body has control mechanisms for that. So, like, just the way your body is moving throughout space affects how your cardiovascular system responds.
00;57;55;08 - 00;58;04;06
Speaker 4
it's something that we just take for granted every day. it's pretty, pretty incredible.
00;58;04;08 - 00;58;06;10
Speaker 4
immune system. So Charles talked about this.
00;58;06;10 - 00;58;08;09
Speaker 2
Sorry about that. I didn't know you were going to talk about that.
00;58;08;11 - 00;58;09;20
Speaker 1
No. It's okay.
00;58;09;22 - 00;58;10;05
Speaker 4
It's okay.
00;58;10;08 - 00;58;12;08
Speaker 2
I should read your notes at the time.
00;58;12;10 - 00;58;13;08
Speaker 1
yeah.
00;58;13;11 - 00;58;44;24
Speaker 4
The immune system is, amazing, and. And I probably can't do it justice. I'd have to, like. Honestly, we probably talk about the immune system for a whole class, because it's it's so interesting. one of the things that makes it interesting is there's layered defenses to your immune system. It's not just a single defense mechanism, but we have, so we have what they call innate immunity, which is a fast, nonspecific response.
00;58;44;27 - 00;58;57;20
Speaker 4
So this is what kicks in, like when you cut yourself and you know, you're now, your homeostasis is threatened because your skin is breached and bacteria can get in or anything can get in, and.
00;58;57;20 - 00;58;58;18
Speaker 2
Blood can pull out.
00;58;58;24 - 00;58;59;11
Speaker 4
And blood can.
00;58;59;11 - 00;59;01;19
Speaker 1
Pull up.
00;59;01;21 - 00;59;05;02
Speaker 4
it's a weird way to say it, but that is how what happens?
00;59;06;12 - 00;59;26;06
Speaker 4
So it needs to do something about that. So the immune system is responsible for, attacking the invaders that come in like you've got every time you cut yourself, bacteria is getting into your body and your your immune system just takes care of it most of the time. Like no problems. Just.
00;59;26;10 - 00;59;45;03
Speaker 2
And it's not like you warn it ahead of time. Like I'm going to cut myself on like this knife that has E.coli be prepared. It just comes at it with everything it needs and is like, it doesn't matter what comes in, it's ready with something. Yeah, like that's wild. That's insane.
00;59;45;05 - 00;59;46;17
Speaker 1
To me. Yep.
00;59;46;19 - 01;00;10;17
Speaker 4
And so you have like this fast response immunity and then you have more of adaptive immunity. It's slower, but it becomes more highly specific. and it creates targeted antibodies and memory cells, which is, a whole topic within itself. But it's where, like, our immunity actually grows and gets smarter.
01;00;10;19 - 01;00;13;29
Speaker 2
And it can go either.
01;00;14;02 - 01;00;46;09
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, it will help your I mean, it will as long as it doesn't take you out, it'll make you stronger. Yes. For sure. Yeah. So your immune system has different types of, I mean, you can think of it as an army and there's different types of specialized units in that army. You have your your front line, you know, white blood cells that kind of act quickly and are more of a generic solution.
01;00;46;11 - 01;01;12;05
Speaker 4
but then you have bacteria that outsmart those white blood cells. So then your body has to take a look at it from a more specialized point of view. And that's where your body, I mean, I'm kind of broad stroking this. It's more complicated than I'm making it out to be. but you have B cells that basically are like scouts that say, I think this is correct.
01;01;12;12 - 01;01;36;10
Speaker 4
They go out in the, you know, like analyze the enemy, take it back. And that helps inform your body to create, antibodies. And then the T cells go out and direct attack against the other cells like it's it's phenomenally complex and amazing. maybe we can email out the video. Yes.
01;01;36;10 - 01;01;37;06
Speaker 2
Let's let's recap. Yeah.
01;01;37;11 - 01;02;03;07
Speaker 4
There's there's a serious a series of videos that talk about this in detail. They're kind of fun to watch because they're even. But, it goes into bit better detail tonight and it's, it's it's just like, jaw droppingly crazy how well your body does this. And, I think it was from one of those videos, like, apparently your body has everything it needs to defeat any.
01;02;03;09 - 01;02;03;26
Speaker 2
Anything.
01;02;04;01 - 01;02;08;02
Speaker 4
Anything. And the problem is, can your body, your emails.
01;02;08;02 - 01;02;09;17
Speaker 1
Yes. I mean.
01;02;09;19 - 01;02;18;07
Speaker 4
If the question is like, can your body respond quick enough? And like, can you figure it out fast enough. We can find the solution.
01;02;18;10 - 01;02;27;15
Speaker 3
And big enough. I mean like just we have the capacity to defeat, you know Mercury. You know like if you drink, if you drink a gallon.
01;02;27;15 - 01;02;35;06
Speaker 4
Of it like yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. If your body is overwhelmed you can't make enough of the you can't like it's this is a soldier problem right.
01;02;35;10 - 01;02;36;16
Speaker 5
You got to treat it like I. Okay.
01;02;36;16 - 01;02;40;00
Speaker 3
Powder you really small increments. Yeah. Build up an immunity.
01;02;40;00 - 01;03;07;16
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. And that's where the first vaccinations came from basically. Is, is that, Yeah. And then, like, your body, remembers specific antibodies that are useful for fighting specific bacteria and infections. So, like, the next time you get it, it's not a big deal. You know, like chicken pox, you know, you get it first and then you got to your body figures out how to deal with chicken pox.
01;03;07;16 - 01;03;13;14
Speaker 4
And now you're good. like that is, yeah.
01;03;13;15 - 01;03;17;20
Speaker 5
Like that's or how a mom passes in breast milk.
01;03;17;23 - 01;03;18;06
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01;03;18;08 - 01;03;20;23
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's wild. It's unbelievable.
01;03;20;26 - 01;03;50;19
Speaker 4
Unbelievable. Yeah. The memory cells basically can provide a faster, stronger response. And the next time you face that same challenger. yeah. And you and it's it is a war. Like it is a microscopic war. Like there are bacteria and viruses and, pathogens like that want to destroy it. Like you want to reproduce your body, to reproduce and, to live out its life cycle.
01;03;50;21 - 01;04;13;20
Speaker 4
and your body is creating a counter attack for that. And most of the time, like, it just does it in, you know, I would say I don't know if there's numbers on this, but most of the time your body doesn't even react to those things. Like you don't even notice it. you know, there are things where like you do end up noticing it when you get like the flu and stuff like that, and you start getting symptoms.
01;04;13;23 - 01;04;17;27
Speaker 4
but then your body conquers it. Then to it's, it's it's incredible.
01;04;17;29 - 01;04;21;03
Speaker 1
It's it. I don't know, it.
01;04;21;05 - 01;04;30;06
Speaker 4
I came across as recently and within the past couple of years and it just like it was one of those jaw dropping things where I was like, wow, that is way more complex and intricate than I thought it was.
01;04;30;08 - 01;04;33;24
Speaker 1
Medicine is so cool. Oh.
01;04;33;27 - 01;05;19;19
Speaker 4
Excuse me. the last the last thing I wanted to cover, today with the body. And, like, literally, you could pick any body part and discover something amazing about it. like, we went to a conference a couple years ago and someone was, talking about the human foot and how incredible it is in the house. Yeah, foot and ankle, like how optimize it is for the what we do, like three points of contract, contact and then, like, how it flexes and like, how it's just engineered perfectly for what we do, and we don't even think about it.
01;05;19;22 - 01;05;50;14
Speaker 4
so, yeah, like every single bite or has amazing things about it, but another one that's kind of stood out to me is uniquely interesting for the purposes of, you know, evidence is for design is the, clotting cascade. So this is similar to immunity, but a bit different, like when you injure yourself or cut open your skin, your body has to silk like you don't want to, you know, all your blood to fall out.
01;05;50;20 - 01;05;51;04
Speaker 4
So it needs.
01;05;51;04 - 01;05;51;19
Speaker 1
To fall.
01;05;51;19 - 01;06;26;01
Speaker 4
Out. It needs to it needs to clot. the problem is, excessive clotting within blood vessels can block circulation, causing strokes and heart attacks. So your body needs a mechanism to stop bleeding, but not too much where it causes clots. and that is a huge, like, hard balance. And that is not fully understood on how our bodies can clot the right amount in the right place with the right efforts.
01;06;26;03 - 01;06;39;19
Speaker 4
It so we have, you know, platelets that are small cell fragments that stick to injuries, and are released when our body releases the clotting signals and.
01;06;39;24 - 01;06;57;09
Speaker 3
The blood flowing out thing. So you think about, like, and, and, even though it's all integrated yet there's the separation because like, when the blood does fall out, it's like you can't just be like, oh, well, I was put back in the. Yeah, like I'll just ingest that. And then it's fine because it's back in there.
01;06;57;12 - 01;06;58;03
Speaker 4
Yeah.
01;06;58;05 - 01;06;59;28
Speaker 3
But wait, no, that doesn't work that way.
01;06;59;29 - 01;07;01;16
Speaker 2
Vampires don't exist for a reason.
01;07;01;20 - 01;07;04;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, it doesn't works. Yeah.
01;07;04;16 - 01;07;41;06
Speaker 4
And yeah. So yeah, our our body detects damage and then proteins are released in the blood. They create a cascade reaction to help that clot form. But then we have anti clotting proteins that limit the clotting and break breakdown clots as healing occurs because it has celiac. Right. That's where that's where things go wrong. like they're like this is such a balanced thing that there are terrible diseases where we're clotting goes wrong either one way or the other way.
01;07;41;09 - 01;08;00;21
Speaker 4
so if you, if you have, if you, if you don't have, the correct anti-clotting proteins, or they're not as effective as they should, you're risk of, a clot and heart attack are extremely high. and you're probably on blood thinners and stuff like that.
01;08;00;21 - 01;08;23;16
Speaker 2
We have in our family. It's a female genetic, disorder that gets passed down through the female line. It's called factor five because I had to get tested for it. My cousin couldn't have babies anymore because it. She was clotting like crazy, and they test tested, and she has factor five, so she clots too much. And so when she gets pregnant, she loses the baby because she clots.
01;08;23;16 - 01;08;26;29
Speaker 2
And it doesn't allow for his while. That's crazy.
01;08;27;06 - 01;08;27;18
Speaker 4
Yeah.
01;08;27;21 - 01;08;35;29
Speaker 2
And that's just one like that's just one small genetic potential breakdown in that. It's wild.
01;08;36;01 - 01;09;01;25
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I think one of the interesting things about clotting is like it has to have a positive feedback loop, right. Like not every injury is equal. So your body has to recognize what is the extent of this damage and then have the appropriate response clotting response. If it doesn't, you're going to have problems. and like it doesn't have a lot of time to figure it out.
01;09;01;25 - 01;09;23;28
Speaker 4
Like, like if you cut yourself, in the right way and you're bleeding significantly, the body has to aim for that clotting up quickly, or you're or you're going to bleed out, and like, balancing that and like, how does your, how do and we're not talking about like, you're not consciously doing any of this. Right.
01;09;24;00 - 01;09;26;00
Speaker 4
There's no, there's no.
01;09;26;27 - 01;09;54;24
Speaker 4
All it's all automatic. And there's no directive. Like, it's not like you look at your injury and like, oh, that's bad. And tell your clotting system to, like, ramp it up like these cells have mechanisms built into themselves to, amplify and create a positive feedback loop. Okay, this isn't enough. This isn't enough, this isn't enough. And in escalate that up.
01;09;54;24 - 01;10;19;25
Speaker 4
And then as soon as it gets to the right level, it's like, okay, back down, back down, back down. and like it's it's extremely, there's this extremely low failure point. Yeah. Like, it just has to be right on that balance. It cannot be off. and like, there's, there's many, kind of like the immune system.
01;10;19;25 - 01;10;57;04
Speaker 4
There's many layers to, clotting mechanisms, like, like where and how and what the damage is, and like, there's intake, coagulant in the blood. The help of these things. It's, Yeah, it's a really interesting problem for evolutionary explanations because how do you get a system that successfully does this calling cascade when there's such fine tolerances for it to be functional?
01;10;57;06 - 01;11;29;12
Speaker 4
any, you know, these proteins, these, these clotting proteins and enzyme proteins need to both be there, to effectively have an effective clotting system. and it just makes me think we've you know, plotting is amazing. Immunity is amazing. how are, like, all of these systems are incredibly important. how do they. Like, where are all the failures?
01;11;29;14 - 01;12;10;19
Speaker 4
Right. I think is where it comes down to, like, if if life evolved. There had to have been so many failures before something worked correctly. Yeah. you know, and I think, you know, evolutionary biologists would argue with that and say, well, yeah, I mean, you got genetic diseases, you have genetic mutations that cause horrible things. And then, you know, they can't reproduce, you know, but these codependent systems having to have these mutations, basically at the same time that are, that are that work together to form a system like that takes planning ahead.
01;12;10;19 - 01;12;35;08
Speaker 4
It takes engineering. that's why we don't see clocks, coming out of nature. That's why we don't see advanced machinery just happening. or, you know, going back to an earlier class. That's why we don't see, your name written in the sand on the beach, like on accident, like the road. It's just not something nature does on its own.
01;12;35;10 - 01;12;47;02
Speaker 4
And we have to engineer solutions to these problems and create the feedback loops and the sensors and systems, by their very nature, are dependent on the piece before it.
01;12;47;05 - 01;12;59;06
Speaker 3
It's what arguments do. Like the evolutionary biologists. What do they point to as evidence for in, looking at like the fossil record or they look, kind of like, how do they get their.
01;12;59;08 - 01;13;16;28
Speaker 4
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. And that's a good segue to, you know, advocate for next month, because some of the arguments are like, our bodies are actually poorly designed. and yours is.
01;13;16;28 - 01;13;26;07
Speaker 1
Now, I know I went to a doctor. Sometimes it feels that way. but, like, gorgeous, you know.
01;13;26;09 - 01;13;34;25
Speaker 4
But you have things like, you know, term vestigial organs or, things that are like, you know, the, the,
01;13;34;27 - 01;13;36;04
Speaker 2
Like the pancreas. Yeah.
01;13;36;04 - 01;13;36;24
Speaker 4
The pancreas.
01;13;36;24 - 01;13;37;27
Speaker 2
No, sorry. The appendix, the.
01;13;37;27 - 01;13;39;03
Speaker 4
Appendix, the tonsils.
01;13;39;03 - 01;13;40;06
Speaker 1
Tonsils.
01;13;40;08 - 01;13;57;28
Speaker 4
Yeah. You don't really need those. We left over. you know, like, if we are really well engineered, we wouldn't have x, y, z problem. and there's quite a few of those poor didn't like. If things are truly designed, then they should be designed. Well, And how do how do we answer that? Well, I think.
01;13;57;28 - 01;14;01;16
Speaker 1
Some, Yeah.
01;14;01;19 - 01;14;30;14
Speaker 4
Maybe. but I think there's other counterarguments and we'll talk through what those, you know, what those things are that they say are poorly designed. And then is there actually function there. Is it actually fully optimized for the two different, goals, like when you're solving design problems or engineering problems? maybe I'm foreshadowing too much, but like you have to create a balance between two competing factors.
01;14;30;16 - 01;14;50;17
Speaker 4
Like usually like a lot of times there's not a solid single, this is the this is the, this has all the pros and the cons. you have to find that balance that, that between those factors. And we see a lot of that in these arguments. But we're going to go into that more, more in more depth.
01;14;50;19 - 01;15;14;28
Speaker 4
And you mentioned the fossil record. We're also going to talk about that in the future. so yeah, there's there's quite a few things that they would say, you know, I think the real question is like, and I know I've said this before, like, you can have plausible explanations, but isn't there evidence for them? and I think that's kind of what it comes down to.
01;15;14;28 - 01;15;45;05
Speaker 4
They have a lot of plausible explanations, but no direct evidence to back up those explanations. at least not currently. They're they're trying, and maybe they'll find answers for some of it. But, you know, until, Until they can, have answers for all of it. Like it? There's. Oh, even if they had answers for all, it doesn't mean they it wasn't designed, for those purposes.
01;15;45;05 - 01;15;54;25
Speaker 4
So, yeah, we'll be talking about that in more detail. Any other thoughts as we close up?
01;15;54;27 - 01;15;57;02
Speaker 1
No. Great.
