How has DevOps changed in 2025? Carl and Richard talk to Michael Levan about his experiences helping teams automate their development workflows, and dealing with all the details that help the entire team focus on providing customer value. Michael digs into the role of the new AI tools in facilitating better workflows around code, testing, deployment, telemetry, and more. Then the conversation turns to security - and the many challenges that exist to make applications that are secure when deployed, and help with the security challenges that happen while in operation!