Is DevOps dead, or just a fad? Carl and Richard talk to Wes Higbee about his experiences building great software. As Wes says, don't let any methodology stop you from doing the right thing. The conversation digs into the challenges that come around the term DevOps, much the same way they impact the term Agile. It's very easy to start using terminology to define practices rather than focus on the common goal of building great software. Do the labels developer, tester and IT separate us or unify us? Shouldn't everyone talk to the customer and be sure they're working on the right thing? Time to think beyond DevOps!