Dialectic

Josh Miller (X, LinkedIn) is co-founder and CEO of The Browser Company, makers of Dia and Arc. The Browser Company was acquired by Atlassian last year.

Before The Browser Company, Josh was an investor at Thrive Capital, Director of Product in the Obama White House’s Office of Digital Strategy, and co-founder of Branch, which was acquired by Facebook.

He studied sociology and has always been thoughtful about environments: institutions, companies, and digital and physical spaces. We talk about his effort to improve the space many of us spend our days in: the browser. We discuss the tension between Josh’s creative and commercial instincts, optimizing for feelings, and hiring unlikely stars. Josh reflects on much of the journey with Arc and Dia and why he’s still betting on the browser in the AI era, now as part of Atlassian.

I hope you are inspired to believe in people and leave your fingerprints on what you create.

Full transcript & links: https://dialectic.fm/josh-miller

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is a collaborative workspace for your life’s work and a hub for all the context you and your team use to work with each other and with AI. New models are available in Notion the day they launch, and you can work with agents you build in Notion or any other agents and tools you already use. As tools change, Notion is the Switzerland in the middle that keeps your context consistent across all of them. Learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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Patrick Hsu (X, Website, Arc lab) is co-founder and core investigator of Arc Institute, assistant professor of pathology at Stanford, and venture partner at Thrive Capital.

Patrick has always been precocious: he began college as a young teenager and contributed to early CRISPR-Cas9 gene-editing breakthroughs as part of Feng Zhang’s lab at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard. Today, the Hsu Lab at Arc works where genome engineering meets AI, from bridge recombinases that can rearrange up to a million bases of DNA at once to Arc's Evo biological foundation models.

We discuss Patrick’s pace and ambition, infinite games, and why he was drawn to biology. Then, we traverse power laws in biotech and the reach of GLP-1s, research taste and success, Arc’s multidisciplinary model, data limits in AI-enabled bio, and cell and bio foundation models. We also discuss how AI and new science will help us solve diseases, design life, and push the boundaries of sci-fi when it comes to human health. I hope you are inspired to raise your bar, commit to reinvention, and hold a lightness that makes the long and challenging journey fun.

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is a collaborative workspace for your life's work, and it works with whatever AI you use. New models are typically available in Notion the day they launch, you can tag agents from inside Notion, and you can tag Notion from your other AI tools. As the tools around you change, Notion stays the one place that holds your context. Notion is also hiring across product, engineering, design, storytelling, and more. Learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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This episode is supported by Google. Gemini 4 Argon recently launched and is built for long-horizon work. I used it inside Antigravity and gave it all 60 Dialectic transcripts: more than a million words. Instead of summarizing episodes one by one, Argon synthesized across them, tracing how ideas from early conversations connect to later ones. Together we made The Dialectic Compendium, an interactive book of the themes that run across the show, with a dossier on every episode and a 3D version you can page through on the web. Gemini 4 Argon is available in the Gemini app, Antigravity, Google AI Studio, and the Gemini API.

Compendium: https://jacksondahl.com/dialectic/compendium

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Joe Gebbia (Website, X, LinkedIn, Wikipedia) is the first U.S. Chief Design Officer, leading the National Design Studio. He is also the co-founder of Airbnb and Samara.

The NDS and this role were created by executive order of President Trump in August 2025. I met Joe Washington, D.C, to reflect on the past year and talk about bringing the care and ambition of great product design to the digital services that every American uses. Joe & NDS just launched America.gov, their flagship project of the last year: the central entry point for how Americans get what they need from the government.

Joe believes that design is how you respect and value the people who use a product or service. At Airbnb, that meant helping strangers feel comfortable in each other’s homes. In government, it means refusing to accept a low bar for the websites and processes that Americans use to interact with the government.

We begin with CritBuns, Joe’s RISD project that taught him that design is as much about storytelling as it is about product. Then, we discuss what he learned about designing for trust at Airbnb and his initial work at DOGE, streamlining and digitizing the federal retirement process. Joe walks me through America.gov, a single, AI-powered front door to government services. We discuss the challenges of scale and designing for people who are skeptical of both government and AI, including what it means to pass the “grandma test.” We wrap up with why ambitious technologists should aspire to work in government and his collaboration with Airbnb co-founders Brian Chesky and Nathan Blecharczyk.

I hope this conversation raises your expectations for the things we’ve learned to tolerate, and inspires you to think about how you might serve your community or your country.

Full transcript & links at dialectic.fm/joe-gebbia

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. As new models and agents arrive constantly, Notion acts as a context and consolidation layer for all the ways you and your team work with AI: a command center or simply a resilience layer, so your context comes with you even if you switch models or agents. You can also work with agents right inside Notion and share skills with your team through the Skills API. Learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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Adam Mastroianni (Website, X) is an experimental psychologist and the writer of Experimental History. He earned his PhD in psychology at Harvard before leaving academia to pursue research and writing independently.

I first came across Adam through “Good conversations have lots of doorknobs,” which remains one of my favorite essays on Substack.

We talk about why psychology is stuck, why science needs people willing to look stupid, and how prestige can lead you toward a life you don’t want. From there, unpack Adam’s coffee bean test for figuring out what to do, getting “de-bogged,” and what improv teaches us about better conversations (or: create doorknobs). We also discuss writing that surprises its author, his upcoming book, The Strangest Idea in the World, and the prayer he says before publishing: “Let me be useful.”

I hope you leave a little more willing to question what seems obvious, risk looking stupid, and spend your time in ways you actually enjoy.

Transcript & links: https://dialectic.fm/adam-mastroianni

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams think together and create their best work. Notion AI works across your documents and context, while custom workers can automate recurring tasks and connect with your other tools. You can also explore Notion’s Knowledge Board, which evaluates how AI models perform on real knowledge-work tasks. Learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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This episode is supported by Google. Google Antigravity is Google’s agentic development platform. Describe what you want to build, and its agents can plan the work, write and run code, and test the result, with plans and changes you can review along the way.

Gemini 3.5 Transcribe turns audio into text with a choice of verbatim and Smart modes. Verbatim mode keeps fillers and false starts, and supports speaker labels and word-level timestamps to help you check the transcript against the recording. Smart mode removes filler words and repetitions and formats speech into readable text. I used Antigravity and Gemini 3.5 Transcribe to build a Mac app for producing and reviewing Dialectic transcripts.

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Immad Akhund (⁠X⁠, ⁠LinkedIn⁠) is the co-founder and CEO of ⁠Mercury⁠. He is also a prolific angel investor and co-hosts the ⁠Founders in Arms⁠ podcast.

Mercury is a fintech banking platform used by one in three startups. It is Immad's fourth company in 20 years of entrepreneurship. Mercury is in the process of becoming an FDIC-insured bank and recently launched ⁠Mercury Books⁠, AI-powered accounting software.

Immad grew up in Pakistan, moved to London at nine, and left for San Francisco at 23 to become an entrepreneur "for real." Mercury is built on something rare in finance: a willingness to spend a disproportionate amount of energy on details, the kind of care Immad admits "seems irrational.”

We start with a simple question (what is a bank?) and discuss why banking stayed bad for so long, what stays hard as AI makes software easy to build, and why Mercury's motto is "be extremely helpful." Entrepreneurship has shaped Immad's life, and he hopes Mercury can empower a generation of entrepreneurs.

I hope you come away a little more annoyed by the mediocre things we've all learned to tolerate and inspired to put an irrational amount of care into making them better.

⁠https://dialectic.fm/immad-akhund⁠

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Dialectic is presented by ⁠Notion⁠. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams ⁠think together⁠ and create their best work. It works with all of your agents and keeps context across them and your team. ⁠Check out the new Notion Skills API⁠. You can learn more at ⁠notion.com/dialectic⁠.

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Independent Study is a series of bonus episodes to accompany the interviews on Dialectic. I read essays and other writing that has influenced me.

"Personal Renewal" was given as a speech by John W. Gardner to a group at McKinsey & Company in Phoenix, AZ on November 10, 1990. The transcript is available at PBS here.

John W. Gardner was a public servant, educator, and public reformer. Learn more at PBS.

This is one of my favorite things I've ever read. I hope you are similarly inspired.

Transcript and audio for the also mentioned David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" available here, from Farnam Street.

https://www.pbs.org/johngardner/sections/writings_speech_1.html⁠

Miles Grimshaw (X, LinkedIn) is an investor at Thrive Capital. He’s spent most of his career there, there, partnering with founders at the early stages of company building, including Cursor, Turbopuffer, Chai Discovery, Mesh Optical, Revel, XDOF, Socket, Benchling, GitHub, and many more. Miles was also briefly an investor at Benchmark before returning to Thrive in 2024.

The conversation focuses on Miles’ appetite for change and continuing to begin anew, again and again. That starts with “adventure racing” as a teenager, and continues through his career as an investor in search of world-changing companies.

We talk about how Miles proactively puts himself in position to work with great founders in a style that resembles courtship, his disposition of impatient patience, and why he loves change. The latter includes the dramatic shift in his primary domain: software. As the underlying assumptions for software businesses change due to AI, what traits will great companies have? And what moats if any will persist? Is software investing over?

Miles also talks through how great companies and founders go where they are looking, prioritizing customers that help you live in the future, the learned intuition of greatness, and joining the expedition squad alongside the founders Thrive partners with. Finally, we talk a bit about Thrive, his departure to and return from Benchmark, and endurance.

I hope you are inspired to find an infinite game where you are excited to see the stone roll back down the hill and begin to push again.

Transcript & links available at https://dialectic.fm/miles-grimshaw

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only. The views expressed are the speaker's own as of the recording date and are subject to change. Thrive funds and their affiliates have investments in certain companies discussed in this episode. References to those companies are illustrative, do not represent all investments made by Thrive, and should not be viewed as recommendations or indications of future investment performance. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams think together and create their best work. Notion's custom agents are AI teammates that handle recurring work across your tools. Learn more about their new developer platform and workers here. Notion is hiring across product, storytelling, design, engineering, and more. You can learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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Timestamps

“Art is For Seeing Evil” was published by Agnes Callard for The Point Magazine on July 15, 2022. My thanks to Agnes and The Point for permission to share this audio version of her essay on Dialectic’s feed.

https://thepointmag.com/examined-life/art-is-for-seeing-evil/

Agnes Callard (UChicago, Substack, X, Wikipedia) is a professor of philosophy at The University of Chicago, focused primarily on ancient philosophy and ethics. She also writes for The Point, The New York Times, and more. I particularly enjoyed her recent conversation with Derek Thompson on her theory of the “uni-context.”

This essay was shared with me by Nan Ransohoff, (Ep. 51). I hope you enjoy it!

Dan Lilienthal (X, LinkedIn) and José Chayet (X, LinkedIn) are childhood friends and cofounders of [untitled] (X, Instagram), a platform for musicians that they describe as a sacred place for work-in-progress music. It is where a song lives between recording and streaming. [untitled] is closer to the Photos app than to a social network: a private place to store, listen to, and slowly share demos, with no feed.

Dan and José are not trained musicians, engineers, or designers, but they have built a product artists love by “method acting” their way into deep empathy. The platform has grown to 50K paying users and now allows artists to share unreleased music directly with fans. Lorde recently released XRAYS on [untitled]: 49 demos and works in progress from her album Virgin, creating a kind of museum behind the record.

We discuss music as a form of communication and a connection to the divine; why they have resisted adding a feed; product inspirations like the iPod and Snapchat; how empathy and QA underpin their product philosophy; designing for 16-year-olds and superstars; AI as an instrument; which parts of the creative process are worth sharing; what it means for software to be sacred; and building a company with your best friend.

I hope you’re inspired to consider what is sacred, share and live with the things you make, seek out music that inspires you, and stay untitled a little longer than is comfortable.

Full transcript and all links: dialectic.fm/untitled

This episode on [untitled].

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams think together and create their best work. You can learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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Timestamps:

Full transcript and all links and references: ⁠dialectic.fm/ian-rogers⁠.

Ian and I made a playlist with albums/songs mentioned here (Apple, Spotify).

Ian Rogers (X, LinkedIn) is Chief Human Agency Officer of Ledger, the Paris-based security company whose hardware wallets secure much of the world's crypto. He now focuses on how Ledger can enable us to work with AI agents while maintaining our secrets and value.

His career has spanned music, culture, brand, and "the technolog(ies) people are going to hate next." He built and ran the Beastie Boys web presence in the 90s before working on music on the internet for over a decade: file sharing Nullsoft (Gnutella and WinAmp), early streaming at Yahoo!, direct-to-fan commerce at Topspin, Beats Music, and finally Apple, as an abbreviated list. He then joined LVMH as its first Chief Digital Officer, working with Bernard Arnault and its many Maisons to bring them into the internet era. More recently, he joined Ledger to improve its product experience, including collaborating with Tony Fadell to create Ledger's flagship form factor, Ledger Stax.

Ian's roots are skateboarding and music, which formed alongside a punk rock ideology while growing up in Indiana in the 1980s. I am glad to have captured a long conversation that covers the many flavors of Ian, and the threads that have persisted through his many lives. That includes: individuality; being a participant, not a spectator; what makes a scene; building brands; trying to help Kanye; and why new culture is always being made—it's just that you have to find the 1% that's awesome. Also: ushering forward and translating frontier technologies; being pushed by Jimmy Iovine; why security matters in the AI era; why AIs aren't people; what he wants to automate; learning to fail; advice on relationships across work, parenting, and love; and a whole lot of love for music—from his 2026 pick Twisted Teens to his desert island albums to tea with Paul McCartney.

I hope you're inspired to participate in the world and make great things. Thanks to our friends at Ledger for hosting me.

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Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams think together and create their best work. You can learn more at notion.com/dialectic.

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