Discount Disciples Podcast (Formerly Christian AF)

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So… if God has already decided who gets saved, what exactly are the rest of us doing here?

EPISODE NOTES

A conversation with someone who discovered their church was Calvinist sends Jesse, Evan, and Jen into predestination, free will, and the awkward experience of realizing the community you love may believe something you don’t.

Naturally, we begin with tight khakis and a beer can none of us can successfully read.

From there, we work through TULIP: total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints. The conversation explores what those ideas mean for salvation, human responsibility, and the character of God—and why the three of us struggle to make the pieces fit.

If the outcome is already settled, what is the purpose of evangelism, prayer, or making disciples? Is God knowing what someone will choose the same thing as God choosing it for them? And if God is love, how do we understand a system in which some people are chosen and others aren’t?

The discussion turns to Arminian and Wesleyan approaches, including grace at work before belief, atonement offered to all, and the freedom to accept or reject that grace. James 2 brings faith and works into the conversation: not earning salvation by behaving well, but asking whether living faith actually produces anything.

We also talk about how we read Paul. His letters were written to real communities, dealing with real questions. Treating every sentence as a detachable piece of a perfectly closed system may tell us more about our need for certainty than our willingness to wrestle with Scripture.

Along the way, we get into women in church leadership, Phoebe, spiritual gifts, Revelation’s 144,000, new heaven and new earth, covenantal theology, hell, and universalism. Apparently, predestination wasn’t enough theological material for one conversation.

The three of us don’t agree with Calvinism, and we say that plainly. This isn’t a neutral survey or the final word. But the conversation keeps returning to a practical question: can you understand your church’s theology, disagree with parts of it, and still belong to a community that lets you ask honest questions?

Also, God might have chosen you.

We’ll see. Apparently.

EPISODE NOTES — WE DIG INTO:

• Discovering the theology underneath a church’s welcoming community
• The Reformation, the five solas, and the appeal of systematic theology
• The five points of Calvinism and what TULIP means
• Predestination, election, and assurance of salvation
• The difference between divine foreknowledge and determining someone’s choices
• Why evangelism, prayer, and discipleship matter if the outcome is already decided
• God’s sovereignty, human freedom, and the question of love
• Arminianism, Wesleyan theology, and prevenient grace
• Limited atonement versus atonement offered to all
• James 2 and faith that produces works
• Reading Paul’s letters in their community context
• Spiritual gifts and whether Paul’s lists are exhaustive
• Egalitarianism, Phoebe, and women in church leadership
• Revelation’s 144,000 and the hope of new creation
• Covenantal theology, hell, and universalism
• Healthy disagreement and making room for theological questions

EPISODE DRINKING NOTES

ILLUMINATED BREW WORKS – PRF BBQ Pils
Pilsner; packaged by Illuminated Brew Works, Chicago
Product name transcribed inconsistently; ABV unclear in the transcript

GREEN TEA WITH HONEY
Jen’s drink; brand not stated

SHOW NOTE TAGS

Calvinism, TULIP, predestination, election, free will, divine foreknowledge, sovereignty of God, grace, atonement, perseverance of the saints, Arminianism, Wesleyan theology, prevenient grace, faith and works, James 2, biblical interpretation, spiritual gifts, egalitarianism, Phoebe, Revelation, new creation, covenantal theology, hell, universalism, discipleship, church community, Discount Disciples

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So… what if the greatest threat to faith isn’t doubt—but being absolutely certain you already understand everything?

EPISODE NOTES

Evan went to a pastors’ conference in Dry Ridge, Kentucky, and received a free pass to the Ark Encounter. Naturally, we made him review it.

The verdict: the building itself is genuinely impressive. The empty cages with fake animal growls, dinosaur “kinds,” Ark-era blacksmith shop, and animatronic biblical world-building were… less convincing.

What begins as a review of Christian Disneyland quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about young-earth creationism, old-earth creationism, science, biblical interpretation, and what happens when one person’s theory gets presented as the only faithful way to read Scripture.

The real issue isn’t whether someone believes the earth is young or old. It’s the insistence that one interpretation is the load-bearing brick holding all of Christianity together. When churches teach speculation as unquestionable fact, they don’t protect people’s faith. They make it dangerously fragile.

The conversation digs into the different kinds of writing found in Scripture, why the Bible isn’t a science or history textbook, and how the Noah story speaks within the world of ancient Mesopotamian flood narratives. Rather than merely answering questions about dinosaurs, geological layers, and animal storage, the story reveals something far more important about the character, redemption, and purposes of God.

From there, we talk about how churches teach children, why pastors need actual theological formation, and how both fundamentalist and progressive readings can flatten Scripture in opposite directions.

Eventually, we arrive at the real theological tension: doubt may not be the enemy of faith at all. Doubt requires faith—because you can only wrestle with something you first care enough to believe. Certainty, however, can eliminate curiosity, growth, transformation, and the need for faith altogether.

Also, Evan gives the Ark Encounter a 2/10.

One point for the zoo. One point for the zip line.

WE DIG INTO:

• Evan’s visit to the Ark Encounter
• The difference between an impressive building and a convincing argument
• Young-earth and old-earth approaches to creation
• Why creation debates existed long before modern science
• Ken Ham, animal “kinds,” dinosaurs, and the logistics of the Ark
• What happens when biblical interpretation is presented as scientific fact
• Reading Scripture according to genre, context, and purpose
• Noah’s Ark and other ancient Mesopotamian flood narratives
• What the flood story reveals about the character of God
• Teaching children more than one permanently simplified version of Scripture
• The need for theological education and pastoral formation
• How fundamentalists and progressives can flatten the Bible in opposite directions
• The demonization of doubt within American Christianity
• Why certainty may be the intellectual enemy of faith
• Christianity as lifelong transformation rather than rule-following

EPISODE DRINKING NOTES

BEST DAY BREWING – Kölsch
Non-Alcoholic Kölsch-Style Beer

GUINNESS – Guinness
Specific variety and ABV not stated

COFFEE
Brand and preparation not stated

SHOW NOTE TAGS

Ark Encounter, Noah’s Ark, young-earth creationism, old-earth creationism, Genesis, Genesis 1–11, biblical interpretation, biblical genres, science and faith, Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis, Mesopotamian flood narratives, fundamentalism, doubt and faith, religious certainty, Christian education, pastoral formation, biblical literacy, deconstruction, Discount Disciples

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So… what if every church movement is just one generation trying to fix the last generation’s church damage?

EPISODE NOTES

Welcome to the first official episode of Discount Disciples, the podcast for normal disciples who may or may not be viewed as “discount disciples” by the fancier, more aggressively tucked-in disciples among us.

This episode digs into the way American church movements have often followed generational instincts. Evan walks through the post-World War II suburban shift, the church growth movement, seeker-sensitive churches, the emergent church, the missional church, and the question of what might need to come next.

The big idea: these movements are not all garbage fires. Some of them corrected real problems. But each one also created new gaps. The attractional church offered accessibility but often lacked depth. The emergent church pushed against rigidity but sometimes tossed out theological clarity with the bathwater. The missional church recovered discipleship language but could still fail to form deep community.

The conversation eventually lands on the need for a more communal Christianity: not just “come and see,” not just “go and make,” but becoming a formed people who can actually carry the mission together. Basically, Jesus spent three years building a community before sending anyone out, which feels like a minor detail the church may have misplaced in the filing cabinet labeled “Programs.”

Along the way, the conversation touches on Gen Z anxiety, online culture, cultural fundamentalism, third spaces, church programming, sexual ethics, Acts 6, Sunday gatherings, and why the church may need fewer forced agendas and more actual shared life.

WE DIG INTO:

• How different generations shaped modern American church movements
• The post-WWII suburban shift and early church planting movements
• The church growth / seeker-sensitive / attractional model
• The emergent church and the limits of theological looseness
• The missional church, discipleship, and “go and make”
• Why mission without deep community can become thin and exhausting
• Gen Z, online life, anxiety, and black-and-white cultural thinking
• Communal Christianity as a needed corrective for the next church movement

:::

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Yes, you heard that right — the podcast has a new name.

After six years of conversations about faith, church, doubt, deconstruction, theology, scandals, strange ideas, and all the questions people are often afraid to ask out loud, we’re stepping into a new season as Discount Disciples.

In this short intro episode, Evan, Jesse, and Jen talk about why the name changed, what is staying the same, and who this podcast is for. The conversations will still be honest, raw, thoughtful, funny, and occasionally uncomfortable — but the focus is expanding beyond deconstruction into what it might look like to reconstruct faith in a healthier, humbler way.

We’re not experts. We’re not shiny. We’re not new. But we’re still here — scuffs, dents, questions, and all.

If you’re in church, out of church, church-adjacent, doubting, deconstructing, reconstructing, or just trying to figure out what you believe now, this podcast is probably for you.

We’re glad you’re here!

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Skiing is fun. Apparently. (And so is pretending we didn’t ghost you for six months.)

Episode 128 is a pure catch-up chaos special: Jesse, Jen, and Evan reconvene to explain where the heck they’ve been, why the show went dark, and what it might look like to keep this thing alive from afar.

We dig into:

• The “we’ve been busy” recap (translation: life exploded) 
• Evan being “back”… but also not back… but also kind of back 
• The plan: try this again for ~6 months, likely one episode a month, while figuring out remote recording logistics 
• Grassroots updates: new building, Craig as part-time pastor, plus others speaking 
• A quick Lone Canary plug: new album Dime Store Horses, vinyl, and a potential CO/NM/(maybe) Dakotas tour route
• Evan’s update: now lead pastor at Morning Star Friends Church (Quaker), adapting “missional community” thinking in a more conservative, wealthy suburban context 
• And the big teaser: Evan is writing a book tentatively titled Igniting Suburbia about missional life in the suburbs 

Then, because it’s us, we debate whether “AF” is still cool and brainstorm renaming the show into something extremely unserious. 

So crack open an NA beer, throw a ketchup pun at your friends, and tell us what topics you actually want—because if y’all don’t interact, Jen threatened to quit again. 

🍻 EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

BEST DAY BREWING – Hazy IPA
 Sausalito, California
NA Beer | 55calories | 3g protein | 0g fat | “less than 0.5%”

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It’s the end of Christian AF… for now. And possibly the most on-brand way to wrap it all up.

After years of beers, Bible hot takes, snarky one-liners, and genuinely vulnerable faith convos, Jesse, Jen, and Evan sit down one last time (for now) to say goodbye. Or at least… hit pause.

We talk about:

• Why we started this thing in the first place
• What we learned from showing up (even when we didn’t want to)
• The beauty and chaos of faith that doesn’t have all the answers
• And what might come next (spoiler: who knows?)

There’s also a brief return to Evan’s “burn it all down” phase, a wholesome moment with the words of listeners, and—naturally—shots poured out for heresies past.

This isn’t a sad farewell. It’s a hell yes, we did that moment.

So grab a drink. Raise a glass. And thank you for listening. We couldn’t have done it without you.

🍻 EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

JEFFERSON’S RESERVE – Twin Oak Custom Barrel
45.1% ABV (90.2 Proof) | Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Aged in wave-staved, double-barreled oak for peak drama.
Smooth, bold, and perfectly overthought—just like this final episode.

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So… why are we obsessed with the end of the world?

In Part 2 of our chaotic theological therapy session with Jeff Swanson, the Christian AF crew gets personal, philosophical, and—let’s be honest—maybe a little punch-drunk from talking about dispensationalism for 4+ hours.

We dig into:

• Why certainty might be the biggest enemy of faith
• The toxic fallout of end-times obsession
• Why shame ≠ conviction (yes, there’s a difference)
• How to unlearn bad theology without losing your mind

Also, there’s talk of duck butter, mini horses, and why John MacArthur may or may not still be alive at the time of this recording. (RIP, just in case.)

🎶 And hey, The Lone Canary is dropping a new album! Help fund it PLEASE!
👉 Help fund Dime Store Horses on Kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thelonecanary/dime-store-horses-the-lone-canarys-new-album

So crack open a beer, toss your Scofield Study Bible in the fire, and embrace the mystery.

🍻 EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

PRAIRIE STREET BREWING CO – Oatmeal Stout
Rockford, IL
Stout | Smooth & rich | River-adjacent? Possibly.

STARBUCKS – Blonde Roast
Probably Jeff's safe space
Highly caffeinated clarity in a cup

GUINNESS – Extra Stout
Ireland (obviously)
Dark. Classic. Never goes out of style.

DR. PEPPER – Drive-Thru Edition
Burger King
Pairs well with disappointment and missing burger patties.

Support the show

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In this heresy-flavored episode of the Christian AF Podcast, Jesse, Jen, and Evan sit down with resident dispensationalism whisperer (and trauma-sharing expert) Jeff Swanson to break down one of the most influential and weirdly persistent frameworks in evangelical thought.

We’re talking Left Behind. Charts. Rapture timelines. Helicopter-locust hybrids. Why your grandma had a Bible thicker than your thigh. And what it means when churches care more about the end of the world than living like Jesus right now.

Spoiler: Jesus is still coming back. Probably not tomorrow. Maybe chill?

So pour a drink, grab your notebook (or don’t), and jump into Part 1 of our deep dive into a theology that somehow gave us both Tim LaHaye and folded laundry in the apocalypse.

🎶 Also: Jesse's band The Lone Canary has a new album coming, and you can help make it happen!
👉 Support the Kickstarter for Dime Store Horses

🍻 EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

PRAIRIE STREET BREWING CO – Oatmeal Stout
Rockford, IL
Stout | Smooth & rich | River-adjacent? Possibly.

STARBUCKS – Blonde Roast
Probably Jeff's safe space
Highly caffeinated clarity in a cup

GUINNESS – Extra Stout
Ireland (obviously)
Dark. Classic. Never goes out of style.

DR. PEPPER – Drive-Thru Edition
Burger King
Pairs well with disappointment and missing burger patties.

Support the show

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Deconstruction. The word that sends evangelicals into a cold sweat and has half of social media in a theological meltdown. But what does it really mean? Are people deconstructing their faith, or just ditching the bad theology they were handed as kids? In this episode of the Christian AF Podcast, Jesse, Jen, and Evan grab a drink (or two) and dig into the messy, weird, and sometimes necessary world of deconstruction.

We’re talking about why people deconstruct, the biggest triggers (hello, bad church experiences and terrible theology), and why some folks get stuck in the questioning phase without ever moving forward. Is deconstruction just an excuse to "sin without guilt," or is there something deeper going on? We’ll also dive into how to raise kids with a faith that won’t require a total overhaul by the time they hit 20.

No easy answers, just honest conversation, plenty of sarcasm, and probably an unnecessary amount of side tangents.

Oh, and did we mention? The Lone Canary (aka Jesse’s band) is releasing a new album, and they need your help! Check out their Kickstarter here and help them release their new album!

So pour a drink, take a deep breath, and join us as we deconstruct deconstruction.

EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

Glendronach Revival 15 Year
Highland, Scotland
Sherry Cask Single Malt Scotch Whisky | 46% ABV

Support the show

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Genesis 1-11: The greatest hits of Sunday school, or something much deeper? In this episode of the Christian AF Podcast, Jesse, Jen, and Evan dive into the origins of everything—creation, Adam & Eve, Noah’s Ark, and the Tower of Babel—except we’re not here for the flannelgraph version.

Is Genesis meant to be taken literally, or is there something bigger going on? Why do so many people make this the hill they’re willing to die on? And most importantly, how do we talk about this with kids without setting them up for a faith crisis at 20?

We also question how Christians engage with culture, why we still think Noah’s Ark was a cute children’s story despite being about mass destruction, and whether Jesus and the disciples were just hanging out naked all the time (it’s a fair question, okay?).

So grab a drink, get comfortable, and let’s rethink the Bible stories we thought we knew.

NOTEABLE LINKS:

MARK'S GOSPLE w Max McLean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVFQfPTJPq8

EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

Glendronach 15 Year Scotch
Highland, Scotland
Sherry Cask Matured Single Malt | 46% ABV

Old Rip Van Winkle 10 Year Bourbon
Frankfort, KY
Straight Bourbon Whiskey | 53.5% ABV

$550 of Discounted Wine from Woodman’s
Location: Jesse’s House
Consumption Rate: Questionable

Support the show

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