Guest: Celeste Dixon Hosts: Ben Long, Kristin Keith, Liz Rasmussen Join us this season as we examine how and why the National Park Service preserves both cultural and natural resources and how the stories within are discovered, preserved, and told. Enjoy this episode as we talk with Celeste Dixon about her experiences as a Park Ranger at Fort Larned National historic site as well as other National Park Service Sites.

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Celeste Dixon: And they said "Okay, here's your job. You have to learn everything you can about this battle and then tell people about it." And I said-- I didn't say this, but I thought to myself: And you're going to pay me? I think the little things that more people are going to see on a daily basis are probably uh the things that I'm most proud of. Just sharing those stories with people who'd never heard them before, to me that was the best part of the job.

Phil Grossardt: You're listening to Footsteps: The Fort Larned Podcast, the official podcast of Fort Larned National Historic Site. Join us this season as we examine how and why the National Park Service preserves both cultural and natural resources and how the stories within are discovered, preserved, and told. Enjoy this episode as we talk with Celeste Dixon about her experiences as a Park Ranger at Fort Larned National historic site as well as other National Park Service Sites.

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Ben Long: Well welcome Celeste. Welcome on the podcast.

Celeste: Thanks for having me.

Ben: Thanks for being here. As we get started why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your history and-- I guess your military history, and then National Park history, and any other history you'd like to share.

Celeste: Well, I'm a Navy veteran, I have four years active duty, 18 years in the reserves. I actually retired from the reserves and when I was in the Navy I was-- I actually ended up on both coasts, Norfolk and San Diego. Which, you know, they always say there's a difference between the East Coast and the West Coast Navy. And then I got out and went to the University of Texas in Austin, the original UT and got a degree in history. And then I thought what am I going to do with a degree in history besides teach kids, which I don't like? So, I actually ran into-- so when my brother got married in Phoenix, he had run across an old high school friend of his working at Zion National Park. And Audie had actually gone to school to be an accountant, and he hated it, and he ended up getting a job with the Park Service. And so, after the wed-- a couple of months after the wedding I thought how did Audie do that? And so, I wrote him a letter, I got his address wrote him a letter and said, "How did you get in the Park Service?" And at that time back in the Dark Ages you-- if you wanted to apply for a summer seasonal job, you had to get this appli-- you had to write to someplace in Washington and they sent you this application which was a fill in the bubble thing where you would rate yourself on different skills. And then you can only pick two parks. Like you know you would pick-- look at the parks and say okay I'm going to-- you can send my application to this one and this one. And Audie gave me some tips. For one he says, rate yourself high he says you know if you've ever been in a canoe give yourself you know three or four for, you know, operating a boat. He also said, you know, the parks that got fewer applications would usually have an asterisk by them so it's probably better to, you know, pick one of those. So, I that's how I ended up picking Chickamauga and Chattanooga National Military Park because it had an asterisk by it, and I was interested in the Civil War. So, by the time I talked to Audie it was too late to apply for a summer season. Also, the applications had to be in by January 15th. So, you know, you had to really be planning ahead. But if you wanted a winter seasonal job you had to apply to each region. And you would get in touch with the regional office, and they would send you the same type of application, but you would send it to the region, and you would pick two parks within the region. And I did try for some winter seasonal jobs at that time, but I didn't get anything. But anyway, I did in the summer of 1995 get my first seasonal job at Chickamauga and Chattanooga National Military Park. And I showed up there in June and they said, "Okay here's your job: you have to learn everything you can about this battle and then tell people about it." And I said-- I didn't say this, but I thought to myself: "And you're going to pay me to do this?"

Kristin Keith: So, you thought it was a dream job?

Celeste: It was definitely a dream job. Once you get permanent, it's not so much fun anymore. It's still fun but, you know, it's not when you're-- I was just talking to Ben about this this morning. When you're a seasonal you do all the fun stuff. You talk to the visitors, you do the programs, you do the tours. And the poor permanent Rangers are the ones doing all the paperwork and filling out the forms or you know submitting grant requests and things like that the boring stuff. And so yeah, it was a dream job to me. And I found out later-- I mean the main interpretive program that they had then, they're not doing it anymore, but they did these car caravan tours. Where you would-- people would sign up they usually did one at 10:00 and then at 2:00 and people would sign up and then the Ranger who was doing the tour would come and collect everyone and take a park car and do a little introduction at the Visitor Center and then drive around with these all these cars following you and stop at different places in the battlefield and talk about it. And I have to say that is the most fun I've ever had on a job either before or since. It was just a blast. I found out though-- and so I just started preparing for one right away. And nobody really told me, this but they don't always expect the seasonals to be able to do-- it's a complicated battle, and they don't really expect the seasonals to do it their first time. And I didn't-- nobody told me that and I just thought that I want to get out there and start doing that because that's the fun job. And so, I started-- my first summer I started giving those tours and that was like I said that was best fun I ever had on a job.

Kristin: Did you visit a lot of parks as a child? Did your parents take you to National Parks?

Celeste: Yes, as a matter of fact when I was-- my parents had a 35mm camera and I was looking through some of the footage and there was-- I remember when we lived in Tennessee my mom, and my brother, and maybe another sister, we went up to Chattanooga. And there's actually film of us walking around Point Park which is in the Chattanooga District of Chickamauga and Chattanooga National Military Park. I was probably five or six at the time. But yes, we used to go camping in National Parks, we used to go to not necessarily National Park-- historic sites-- I mean we did a lot of stuff like that when I was a kid. But I don't recall that ever influencing my decision to be a Park Ranger. It's just-- it was definitely a lot of fun. It probably influenced my love of history.

Kristin: Sure

Celeste: But I never really thought about being a Park Ranger.

Ben: So how long then were you working at Chattanooga Chickamauga?

Celeste: That would be Chickamauga and Chattanooga.

Ben: Chickamauga Chattanooga

Celeste: And I was there for five summer seasons. And in between seasons I went back to Austin. Well, the first winter after I was done, I didn't get a winter seasonal job, but I did apply for after the '96 season and I didn't hear back until the Truman home called me in February of '97. So, starting in in '97 I was basically working year-round but I was a seasonal, so I did two winter seasons at Harry S Truman National Historic Site in Independence. And then after-- in '98 I guess it was, yeah, '98 I got a winter seasonal job at Martin Luther King Jr National Historic Site in Atlanta. So, I was working year-round but obviously I was bebopping between different places.

Kristin: What are some of the differences between all of those parks and sites as far as programs and visitor...?

Celeste: Well, they were all pretty busy parks. Unfortunately compared to this place. And I say that unfortunately because there should be more people coming through the doors here and they're not. I mean Chickamauga had probably-- averaged 700 people a day in the summertime. So, you're not really spending-- it depends on most of the time you were just handing people brochures. But people would ask questions and you could talk to them and have conversations, but there were a lot of people coming in and out. And same for Martin Luther King it was very busy in the summertime. Now for the Truman home and really for MLK in the winter it wasn't necessarily that busy. But the main-- for both of those places, the main interpretive program was touring the houses. They were house tours. So, Harry Truman's house on Delaware, I think it was Delaware Street can't even remember now, and MLK's childhood home on Auburn Avenue in Atlanta. And, you know, you-- obviously not as fun as driving around a battlefield, but still very interesting. And I have to say when I went-- so after two summers at Chickamauga-- and I got the job at Martin Lu-- I mean at Harry Truman, I thought "Okay well it is a job, but I mean how exciting can a president be after-- especially one from Missouri especially after you know talking about all the drama on a Civil War battlefield?" Let me tell you, Harry Truman is a very interesting man, very interesting. I really enjoyed learning a lot about him. I've enjoyed learning about all the places where I've been.

Ben: So then, after working at those three sites was that when you got into your permanent career?

Celeste: Well, my permanent job I got at Martin Luther King. And I was there-- so that was April of 2000. And so, I was permanent a little over a year and I had applied almost a year after they hired me for this intake training program, and I got into it. And it was this pro-- they don't do it anymore, but it was this program where they would get people from different career fields, there would be a class, it was a two-year training program, and you would be sent to this host park. So, each career field-- each person had some-- a budget for training so you could find training in your career field and go to training but there were also during the course of this two years seven group activities where we all got together as a class in different places and had different um training related to just working for the park service. And I of course was in the Interpretive Field. There was seven of us in that class, we were the largest group, the next largest was law enforcement at four and then there was a smattering of concessions, maintenance, admin, historians, that kind of thing. And they sent me to Richmond National Battlefield Park. So, I apparently was stuck in the Civil War, and I was there for two years but I traveled around a lot. That was actually a very busy time in my life because I traveled, I was traveling for the Park Service, I was traveling for the Navy, I was-- seemed like about once a month I was going somewhere, I was never home, so. But Richmond was interesting, you know, totally different cast of characters Eastern Theater versus Western Theater. Robert E. Lee, Ulysses Grant, although Grant does show up at Chattanooga so, you know, got a little bit of an introduction to him, but I definitely tell you that's where I found out Grant's probably one of the most underrated Civil War generals in this country. So, after Richmond, after two years at Richmond, they had to place me in another park, and I didn't really want to go to another Civil War park but in the Northeast Region there were two openings. One was at Appomattox, and one was at Fredericksburg. And I found out later that the regional director pretty much told the superintendents at each park "One of you has to take her and we don't care which one it is." So, I ended up at Appomattox Courthouse National Historical Park and continued my relationship with Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant. And I saw-- so I ended up here because I thought I'm so tired of the Civil War I mean I really like it, but you know, I don't-- I didn't want that to be my career. So, I saw this opening, didn't know anything about Fort Larned other than this gal that I worked with at the Truman home was from Burdett.

Kristin: Oh really?

Celeste: Yes, so she had worked here as a seasonal. Valerie... can't remember her last name. Anyway, that's the only thing I knew about this place. And here I am.

Ben: Here you are. And how long have you been here now?

Celeste: 14-- 16-- I came in 2008 and it's now 202-- I came in February of 2008 and it's now 2024, so. What is that? Somebody do the math, cuz I can't.

Ben: There's a reason I'm a history major not a math major.

Celeste: Me too!

Ben: Yeah, so the initial draw to Fort Larned then was because it was outside of the Civil War realm?

Celeste: Yeah, I mean you know obviously the time frame covers the Civil War, but I definitely knew I was not in the South anymore when the very first-- and out of the Civil War really because that's not a focus at this park -- when the first Rendezvous-- yeah, the first Rendezvous which was 2008 focused on the Santa Fe Trail and the Mexican-American War. And if you work at a Civil War park, anytime the Mexican War comes up it's always about which Civil War officers got their feet wet in combat during the Mexican War and nobody mentioned that here. So, I thought well that's good I'm not in the Civil War anymore.

Ben: Yeah.

Celeste: It's a totally different outlook. There's obviously-- I mean even just generally speaking geographically in this country there's no focus on the Civil War here in Kansas. It's not, it's just not an issue.

Kristin: What are some of your favorite experiences you've had here? It could be a program, a visitor, a story you've told.

Celeste: I don't know. I've really enjoyed doing living history. I won't do it as a hobby. But since they're paying me.

Kristin: Sure.

Celeste: I enjoy doing that. I've enjoyed learning more about the Plains Indians. It's obviously-- one thing that I would say the difference between Fort Larned and the other parks where I work-- all the other parks that I worked at dealt with either big onetime events or some very important well-known figure. Which also corresponded with well-known events. This place-- Fort Larned is about individual people for the most part. I mean there's a few famous names that come in and out of here, but for the most part you're talking about ordinary Americans doing ordinary things but it's part of-- it's an important part of the history. I mean that's really what history is. We only hear about the big names, but it's people doing stuff every day, moving along, getting the job done that really constitutes history in my opinion. So even though those big names are very fascinating, and we know more about them, they're just a few people. And here I was learning about all these different-- like I wrote a series of articles for the Post Commanders for The Outpost, and I found out that the very last commander here at Fort Larned-- Post Commander here at Fort Larned was responsible for sadly a very sad history in the Philippine War. There was-- he was responsible for some sort of retaliation for an uprising during the Philippine, I don't know what you call it, I forget what it's called. It's not a-- I mean the Filipinos would probably call it a revolution, but I don't think that's what we called it at the time. But he was responsible for-- but then I don't think that he himself thought that he was, you know, he was just like these guys they're not doing what we want them to do, and they got to be punished. But it's interesting, you know, when you see those connections.

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Phil Grossardt: As always with a new year comes new events at Fort Larned National Historic Site. Join us this year as we maintain our classic annual events and spice it up with some new ones this year's events include Camp 11: an event focused on reenactors and living historians where the public is more than welcome to come watch these reenactors immerse themselves into the daily life of a frontier post. Dates: April the 11th and 12th, 2025. Mess and Muster: a collaborative effort with the Fort Larned Old Guard. Join us this year as we examine defending the fort as well as the Santa Fe Trail. The evening talk will feature military firearms used at Fort Larned with original examples. Go to triple "w", "f" "t" old guard dot com, that's www.ftlarnedoldguard.com for more details. Date: April 26th, 2025. Memorial Day Weekend: A Fort Larned classic in one of our biggest living history events of the year. Come enjoy the sights, sounds, and smells of a frontier post. Touch history for yourself this this Memorial Day Weekend, May 24th through the 26th, 2025. Independence Day: How did soldiers 157 years ago celebrate the anniversary of our nation's independence? Come see for yourself July 4th through July 6th at Fort Larned. Labor Day Weekend: A perfect way to unofficially close out the summer in style. Join us as we bring the fort to life and experience for yourself this piece of history. Dates: August 30th through September 1st, 2025. Candlelight Tour: A local favorite and the only event to require reservations, although the event is free. Enjoy the post lit up by candlelight in this unique view of Fort Larned. Date October the 11th, 2025. Reservations open September 20th at 8:30 a.m. Central Time. Christmas Past: A perfect way to enjoy the holiday season with the whole family. Enjoy seeing the fort spruced up for the holiday season and experience some of the ways the soldiers and enjoyed the holiday. The date: December 13th, 2025. [Break] All too soon we're a part of history, help preserve our past today. The Fort Larned Old Guard is a nonprofit organization designed to benefit programs and operations at Fort Larned National Historic Site. Over the years, The Fort Larned Old Guard has bought artifacts with direct provenance to Fort Larned, commission paintings dealing with Fort Larned's story, and much more. If you enjoy what we do at Fort Larned, please consider donating to The Fort Larned Old Guard or becoming a member. Visit triple "w", "f" "t" old guard dot com, that's www.ftlarnedoldguard.com for more details on donating and membership.

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Kristin: Have there been any other connections to Fort Larned with your other parks that you've been at?

Celeste: Well, Custer was at Richmond, he was at Appomattox, he was here, can't get away from the guy. Grant. Grant is President, well he was he was the general-in-chief for part of the history here and then he was President. Sherman, Sheridan, you know there's a lot of-- there were a lot of people associated with the Civil War who continued in the Army and obviously came out in this direction. Grierson who was commander of the 10th Cavalry, the Buffalo Soldiers. He actually was in Grant's Army of I think it was the Mississippi at the time. The one that he was in command of when he captured Vicksburg and Gerson actually did a big behind enemy lines Cavalry raid in Mississippi to detract from or to distract from the fact that Grant was crossing the Mississippi River South of Vicksburg to attack Vicksburg from the East instead of the West. So, he also didn't like horses.

Kristin: Okay.

Ben: That's interesting.

Celeste: He got kicked in the face by one. If you look at his pictures, he's always facing one way or the other. I forget which-- I forget which side he keeps from the camera but that's the side that got kicked by a horse when he was younger.

Ben: Huh, I never knew that.

Celeste: So even though he apparently made a very good Cavalry commander, he wasn't fond of horses.

Ben: I wouldn't be there if that happened to me. Now, sadly soon here you're going to be retiring and hanging up the ranger hat for good. What are some of the things that you're going to miss most about interpreting history?

Celeste: Talking to people. Even though I might have told stories or the same piece of information on a regular basis the people-- most of the time the people that were hearing it had never heard it before, so it always seemed fresh to me. And sharing-- just sharing those stories with people who'd never heard them before to me that was the best part of the job. I mean the programs and the tours and the things like that are fun, but when you have a conversation with someone who's never thought about a piece of history in a certain way and has an "aha" moment about something that they had never thought about, to me that's the best part of the job.

Kristin: Did that work both ways? I mean did you ever visit with someone, and you learned something from them?

Celeste: Yes, and I've changed my perspective from some visitors and sometimes it's a perspective that I thought I was never going to change and then all of a sudden someone just presents it in a certain way and I'm like, you know, yeah maybe that is the case. So yes, I learned from them just as much as some people learned from me, so.

Kristin: What's your favorite special event that goes on at Fort Larned?

Celeste: Candlelight.

Kristin: Okay.

Celeste: Has to be Candlelight.

Ben: I think that's just about everybody's favorite, it's such a unique event.

Celeste: Although sadly, most of the time I was never in scenes, I was always running the desk. But it's still-- it's just an interesting program. Now they did something-- I tell you one funny story that related to a similar type of program was at Richmond. So at-- Richmond Battlefield has basically pieces small pieces of about five different battles that are associated with the 1862 and 1864 campaign to capture Richmond. And one of them is a section of the Cold Harbor Battlefield. So in-- for the anniversary of the battle which was fought I think June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, they do these what they call Torchlight Tours. And they do essentially the same thing but it's outside, they have different scenes. Now there, the tour guides actually set up the scene before they get there, but they will have-- like the year that I was there they had they had some soldiers you know digging trenches and there was a couple of guys, one is a Lee impersonator and the other is a Grant impersonator that were there. And so the second year I was there I was going to be a tour guide, or you know, for the Torchlight tour and so we were walking through during the day, we were walking through the scenes so we could understand what we were doing, and we got to this certain point and I guess Grant was supposed to be at this scene and just when we get there this silver truck, SUV pulls up, Grant gets out, and Lee is driving.

Ben: That had to have been a funny sight.

Celeste: It was. It was also raining and-- or drizzling and all of that wool smelled like wet dogs.

Kristin: What are you most proud of over your years in the Park Service? Like of your contribution, or a project you've worked on?

Celeste: Well, you know when I was at Chickamauga the permanent Ranger and I started it might have been the second summer, we-- there's a book, it's called the Civil War Day by Day and we started to make-- I started it and she continued it, we started these little displays that we put in the visitor center and we took each year we took something out of that book for each year and made these little, you know, 8.5 by 11-- you know we had to work ahead, but it took us a year but we got a year's worth of this on this day in the Civil War. I felt like that was a nice little project. I don't know if there's anything I'm-- I don't know, I've done a lot of stuff. So, I can't really think of any one thing but that was fun. I'm glad that I finally got all of the displays for the buildings here, the little things that go on the plexiglass, finished. The ones for Officers' Row were done years ago and then the ones for the rest of the buildings, they were actually done years ago too and then they sat on the-- in my on my hard drive for years as well. But, you know, I mean to me it's those little pieces of information that more people are going to see every day rather than one big program that only a few people are going to see. I mean the reason they don't do those car caravan tours anymore at Chickamauga I found out-- I mean I don't know what they do, but if you think about an average of 700 visitors a day and the most you might get for a car caravan tour was, you know, 20 or 30 people, you're talking 60 people out of 700 are getting an in-depth tour of the battlefield. They had these tape tours that you can rent from the bookstores, so people did that too, but, you know, in terms of the time that the Rangers put into those programs and the number of people they were reaching, I guess eventually they decided to do away with it. But-- and those are still good, but I think the little things that more people are going to see on a daily basis are probably the things that I'm most proud of.

Ben: That's cool.

Celeste: It's not glamorous, but--

Kristin: Yeah.

Ben: No, but it's important.

Celeste: But it's important, that's right.

Ben: Yeah. So, one of my favorite things working with a Park Service and working at different sites is finding out why they're National Park Service sites. I was curious what in your opinion is the reason that Fort Larned is a National Park Service site?

Celeste: Well, I mean it had to do with a lot of local people who said, "This is an important place". They knew the history, they knew-- like I said nothing big, major happened here. I mean, even if you think of Hancock's War, or the village site that still most people wouldn't consider that a huge event, although it did have a lot of historical significance. I just think it was the ordinary people around here who said this has a national story and we need to save it.

Ben: Yeah, and save the stories of the ordinary people that lived and worked here.

Celeste: Exactly.

Kristin: How did the preservation of Fort Larned compare to the other places you've worked at?

Celeste: Well, Chickamauga was actually preserved by the veterans themselves. It was actually the very first National Military Park. And eventually those military-- those National Military Parks made it into the Park Service. MLK, I think was, I actually can't remember how-- I know Jimmy Carter signed the legislation, but I don't remember who was the impetus behind it-- impetus behind it. Richmond was actually a bunch of peo-- Douglas South Hall Freeman who was a famous Lee biographer back in the 1920s got a group of Richmond citizens together and they preserved those little sections of the battlefield that eventually went from private hands to state to the National Park Service. And Harry Truman, well he just-- they donated their house to the Park Service. They said we think we were important, and we want you to have it.

Kristin: I would like to add that as a volunteer I have learned so much from you. You've been a tremendous resource, and you will be greatly missed when you retire.

Celeste: Well thanks! You can always call me.

Kristin: I will! And I hope you might consider volunteering.

Celeste: I might. Only with you.

Kristin: Okay.

Ben: Yeah, well thank you for coming on and sharing your story and--

Celeste: Yeah.

Ben: And telling us a little bit about your experiences and preserving history.

Celeste: Well thanks for having me.

Phil Grossardt: As always, Fort Larned National Historic Site is open 7 days a week from 8:30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. and is just 6 miles west of Larned, so stop by for a visit! If you're interested in learning how you can help Fort Larned National Historic Site give us a call at 620-285-6911 or email us at [email protected] and ask us about volunteer opportunities. Now back to the rest of the episode!

Ben: Welcome to the discussion portion of the episode where we break down the interview and how it applies to Fort Larned. I'm Ranger Ben one of the Park Rangers here at Fort Larned National Historic Site, I do a lot of work with our social media, obviously with the podcast as well, and enjoy living history a lot. I'm also joined by Kristin Keith.

Kristin: Thanks, Ben, for asking me to join you this this year. I've been volunteering out here at Fort Larned I think for around 10 years now. I enjoy doing living history working with school groups that come through with some education programs and tours. I'm involved in Fort Larned Old Guard, I'm currently serving as chair and I'm also part of the Santa Fe Trail Association, our local chapter Wet/Dry Route Chapter and the Larned Historical Society.

Ben: Also joining me is Liz Rasmussen.

Liz Rasmussen: Thanks, Ben, for having me. I have been volunteering at the Fort for about a year and a half. I really enjoy living history and learning more about the history of Fort Larned which is so local here in Kansas it's kind of cool to have something local that has such a big impact on how Larned was established and how the fort was established.

Ben: Well, I really enjoyed that interview. It was really fun even though I've worked with Celeste for the last 5 years, it was really fun to get-- to learn more about her past in the Park Service. One of the big highlights for me in the episode was how she was talking about her shift from the big names of the Civil War and even though your everyday, your privates, sergeants, even captains and low-level officers were part of that, it really is those big names: Lee, Grant, Sherman, those guys that that sort of come to the service and those dates. But then coming here-- and there's-- yeah there's some big names that come through here and some big dates, but for the most part it's just everyday life and everyday people making it happen.

Kristin: Yes, and if you as a listener stick around through all of the episodes, you will notice that that's a theme throughout this podcast is the history of the lives of everyday people not just names we immediately recognize. But what life was like for ordinary people at the time.

Ben: Names you won't find in history books.

Kristin: Right. So, what really stuck out to me talking with Celeste was her passion for history and for the Park Service. And I feel like she is going to be an inspiration to people because she really explains to you the process she went through of becoming a Park Ranger and so I hope that will be inspirational to some listener out there to think, "Wow, you know, this is a career path that I hadn't thought of but it's something that I might want to pursue".

Liz: My big takeaway from Celeste is she talked about the difference between seasonal and permanent jobs. She talked about how much more fun it seemed that seasonal-- her seasonal jobs had because she had all this information that she just got to tell all the tours and the permanent positions, you don't do a lot of that you're trying to you know-- you're doing a lot in the background, but you still do some of it. And part of preserving a National Historic Site is also the knowledge you have explaining everything especially to children or adults who want to learn more.

Ben: And even though doing the paperwork and things like that might-- it's not as glamorous but it's just as important as those people doing the tours and leading people around, so.

Kristin: Which again, if you have a passion for your job you deal with the day-to-day tasks that you have and look forward to the interaction with the public. And she talked some about dealing with or working with kids and I think it is so important when kids come here to Fort Larned that we Inspire them and give them as much knowledge as we can so that they take that home with them and share that with their parents and are excited about bringing family members back here to Fort Larned. So, I think that's a-- you know a huge part of being a Park Ranger too.

Ben: Absolutely. And I always like to say that this is the best classroom you could have. I mean, you can read about what frontier soldiers did all day long, but you can actually-- since you can actually come here and try out the bunk beds and you can see the blacksmith at work and everything like that, it just solidifies it for every one of all ages really.

Kristin: Absolutely.

Liz: As a student, actually, I didn't really like history that much unless it was local and even then, it was kind of boring. When I started coming out here to volunteer it made it-- it just kind of set the stage. You read all about this and now you're actually seeing it and seeing how it actually was-- it's a lot different than sitting in the classroom and reading about it.

Ben: It is. Yeah, and it's really just the stories of everyday people like we were talking about. And like the unintentional theme that came out this season was just the stories of people that keep the wheels moving. People that might not end up in the history books but they're important, nonetheless. And so that's-- I mean as far as taking the interview and bringing it back to the themes of Fort Larned, it was obviously really easy since Celeste has worked here for last number of years in her career. But yeah, that's the big thing of just throughout history-- and that's something to keep in mind as we explore different parts of history different-- even different battles and other historic sites too is, there might be big names but it's really the everyday people, the privates in the army or just everyday civilians that are keeping the wheels moving.

Kristin: I also enjoyed listening to Celeste's history that she began her career in the military in the Navy and then she ended her career at a military, historic site and she spent a lot of her Park Service at different military sites. So, I think she had a theme going through her career so was kind of interesting listening to all those connections that she could make. She also mentioned a couple of events during her interview. For people who aren't familiar with Fort Larned's schedule Celeste mentioned an event called Rendezvous. So, I just wanted to clarify what that is. Rendezvous happens every other year and it's a collaborated event between the Santa Fe Trail Association, the Santa Fe Trail Center Museum here in Larned, and Fort Larned. It's an academic symposium where lots of speakers are brought in to speak about a certain theme. So, it's a really neat event for you to come to and just really study in depth a theme that they might have. Also, she mentioned Candlelight. Which happens here at Fort Larned the second Saturday of October every year. It's in the evening, and it's done by lamp light or candlelight and again you go building to building and there's a certain theme that is portrayed by a large group of living history volunteers. So that's a fun event for people to attend. Then Celeste also mentioned writing some articles for The Outpost and The Outpost is a...

Ben: Newsletter.

Kristin: Newsletter, thank you. That Fort Larned Old Guard puts out that she's been helping write for. Also, Ranger Ben has done that. So, I just wanted to clarify what those events and publications were.

Ben: Yeah, thank you for that. Candlelight Tour is definitely a local favorite and for a lot of the volunteers that help out with it it's also a favorite event too, because you do-- you get to see a different side of the fort with it being dark and there's a different type of interpretation. It's not people walking in and "Oh no, I have to answer questions about A through Z", it's "I have what I need to say and then the group moves on". So, it's a fun introduction for a lot of people to the living history world too.

Kristin: Yes, it's definitely event where you feel like you've gone back in time.

Ben: Yeah.

Kristin: Definitely.

Ben: It's always fun. Well, we want to thank you for listening and we hope you enjoyed the interview and we hope you join us next month and the rest of the season. Until next time, have a good one.

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Phil Grossardt: We thank you for listening to this episode of Footsteps: The Fort Larned Podcast. Join us next month as we talk with Judy Readding, a Larned native and someone who grew up on the Fort Larned Ranch before the National Park Service bought this historic gem. If you enjoy listening, please give us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, share footsteps with your friends and family, and be sure to subscribe to keep up with the latest episodes. Make sure you also check us out on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and as always enjoy the valuable resources contained on our website www.nps.gov/fols. Thank you for listening and until next time, this is Footsteps: The Fort Larned Podcast!

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