Disruptive Conversations

In this podcast episode, I talk with Sharon Avery the CEO of Toronto Foundation. Sharon is excited about being at the heart of philanthropy. In the show we talk about how she got into philanthropy. She tells the story of headed off to university thinking she would get into media. Instead, she became a fundraiser. She shares a powerful work experience, related to a past crush and how that experience changed her perspective on what she wanted to do with the rest of her life. We joke about how following love sometimes has profound impacts on our career trajectories.

When we began to talk about having Disruptive Conversations, we discuss the challenge of getting your colleagues to work differently. Many of us have the experience of going to training or a workshop that inspires us to try new things at work. For most of us implementing these new ideas in our workplace can be a struggle. Throughout the show we talk about how her career has been peppered with challenging established norms to produce tangible outcomes.

At Toronto Foundation, her new challenge is thinking about how she can bring innovative thinking to the organization. In this episode, she shares how she has learned to that by simplifying the message, focusing on learning and limiting choices she was able to get more engagement. From the interview, you can tell that Sharon is bold with her ideas, intentional and collaborative in the way she works. In being disruptive, she likes to bring people along with her on the journey. Before bringing ideas to life, she engages in a lot of inquiry before she dives into her initiatives. For her, it is important to take the time to find ready partners.

Although she is new to her position, Sharon has an opportunity to disrupt affluence and unearth philanthropic dollars in new ways. It will be exciting to see Sharon develop in her role and I look forward to seeing how Toronto Foundations develops in the next few years.



Links in the podcast:

Toronto Foundation website: https://torontofoundation.ca/

Toronto Foundation on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TorontoFdn

Follow Sharon Avery on Twitter: https://twitter.com/s2avery

This episode explores how the leader of America’s deadliest neo-Nazi gang, Christian Picciolini, became the co-founder of a nonprofit, Life After Hate. His nonprofit is dedicated to peace, inclusion, and racial diversity. In this show, we talk about how in owning a record store that sold not only white power music but music that was popular with groups he was taught to hate, he unintentionally befriended people who were supposed to be his enemy. Christian is a testament to people's capacity for deep change.

After the interview with Christian, three things stood out for me. Christian explains that we are all born with compassion and somewhere along our journey some of us lose that. The second thing that stood out for me, Christian described his favourite quote as being “find a way or make one”. The third came when I asked him what was his guiding compass and he responded, treat others better than we want to be treated. These moments in the show are a testament to people’s capacity to change. When the former leader of a neo-Nazi group speaks with great optimism and hope or uses words like empathy and compassion, it demonstrates just how much people can change.

Christian has written a book, Romantic Violence: Memoirs of an American Skinhead and has cofounded a nonprofit called Life After Hate. The nonprofit is wholly run by former extremists who work with members of white power extremist groups to help them transition away from these hate groups. Their approach is to two-pronged. First, they are all former members of these extremist groups. Second, they take an approach of listening first. They do not to try to talk about ideology. The thinking behind their approach is that most people join these groups because they are insecure, lonely or marginalised I some way. They address those needs first, and in addressing those primary needs, they can then begin to address different ideologies.

Later in the show, Christian tells a powerful story of how he introduces a man who hates Muslims to an Imam. In their first meeting they have a three-hour conversation and have continued to meet up regularly. Christian has disruptive conversations every day and the story of how this former leader of a neo-Nazi group became an advocate for peace and diversity is a powerful testament to people’s capacity for change.

In the same way that some people might dismantle a washing machine, Jeff dismantles social systems. He describes himself has having a pathology for dismantling social systems. Jeff argues that social norms, the unwritten rules of how people behave, are at the root of addressing complex challenges. We have a rich discussion about how we change social systems by using a scales metaphor. For Jeff and his colleagues, social norms are the key to addressing complex problems. 

For Jeff and his colleagues, the key to the scale is social norms. They break the scale down into six notes:

Actors - people related to the problem. People who have a first or second-degree relationship to the problem.
History - all the stories people tell about the problem
Limits - formal rules related to a problem.
Future - our presumptions about how the problem will unfold.
Configuration - how the elements of the problem are arranged
Parthood - every problem is part of larger more complex problems.

Jeff and his colleagues argue that through these six notes, you can play any song in norms. In their approach, they identify and infuse deviance into systems rather than trying to reduce problems into identifiable projects. Jeff and is team are trying to disrupt how we address a complex problem.

He and his team, really struggle with getting people away from inspiration and into the zone of problem-solving. For them, we have an inspiration crisis. They hold the view that most people are stopping short, at Design Thinking and inspiration. He acknowledges that people are doing the best they can with the tools they have been given. He and his team are working to change the story or tell a better story.

Jeff has found that often in his work, he is often pushing people to think well beyond where they think they can. He argues that the best thinking happens when you move four dials.

Passion - turn it down to low.
Focus - turn it low and look for patterns versus details.
Presumption - turn it down. Presumption refers to all the assumptions you bring into the work.
Agency - you need to believe that you are the only person in the world that can solve this problem.
Links relative to the podcast: 

The Greenhouse Model: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0692888055

SDG's in ranked order: http://ghouse.org/2016/06/15/social-stability-model/

Every person takes the limits of their own field of vision for the limits of the world - Arthur Schopenhauer

In his TEDTalk titled, I am the son of a terrorist, here’s how I chose peace, Zak Ebrahim outlines his experience growing up with a father who taught him to hate.  His book, The Terrorist's Son: A Story of Choice takes a deeper dive into his story of becoming a peace activist. In this Disruptive Conversation, Zak and I explore several powerful lessons he has learned along his journey. He places considerable currency on the need for perseverance. In this conversation, he argues that it is an important part of the journey in learning to have a conversation with people who do not share your perspective.

In our conversation, he talks about how few of us think about the many ways that extremism affects the families of the extremist. Much emphasis is placed on the family of victims but rarely do we thinking about the children of terrorist and how they are affected when their parents are arrested. For Zak, he found growing up with a father who espoused views of hate to be confusing. He was taught to think that people who did not share these extremist views were evil. In the show, we have a very interesting conversation about the similarities between alt-right movements and extremist Islamic movements.

Zak hopes that his work can one influence how we think about American foreign policy and continues to work as a peace activist.

Links referenced in the podcast:

Follow Zak’s work on his website: http://www.zakebrahim.com/

Zak’s book, , The Terrorist's Son: A Story of Choice https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/1476784809/?tag=teco05-20

Zak’s TEDTalk: The Terrorist's Son: A Story of Choice: https://www.ted.com/talks/zak_ebrahim_i_am_the_son_of_a_terrorist_here_s_how_i_chose_peace

Nimah Muwakil-Zakuri’s TEDxTalk

http://tedxportofspain.com/portfolio/nimah-muwakil-zakuri/

Jonathan Levy describes himself as the Zero Waste Guy. In this episode, we explore his perspectives on how he helps organizations reduce their waste. When he first started consulting he called his business Disruptive Consulting and quickly learned that few people want work with a disruptor. In his work, Jonathan is trying to make businesses as green as they allow him to. He has learned that organizations are not always ready to go commit to zero waste, but he has adopted the approach that it is better to make the best decisions he can given the constraints within the context he is working. For him, getting organizations closer to zero-waste is the goal, but if he doesn't achieve that, he is still diverting considerable waste from the landfill.

Jonathan is not an advocate for repeal and replace approaches to change. He argues that we cannot expect people to make radical modify their behaviour. For him, small changes can have massive impacts and he gives some very practical examples in the show. In his work, he takes an incremental approach to creating change and in the show we discuss the merits of a small change approach versus a go big or go home perspective. We also discuss the what he described as waiting for other people to be the change they want to see in the world. For him, we need to take a multi-prong approach in how we make change part of the mainstream. This muti-prong approach awakens various parts of the system. In this rich episode, we dive into a number of practical insights that Jonathan shares.

Learn more about Jonathan and his work here: https://zerowasteguy.com/

You can find him on Instagram also: https://www.instagram.com/zerowasteguy/

You can also find him on Twitter: @zerowasteguy1

In this episode of Disruptive Conversations, I talk to Zaid Hassan, the author of the book, "The Social Labs Revolution: A new approach to solving our most complex challenges" (Berret-Koehler, 2014). In this episode, we explore the notion that our dominant approach to problem-solving, aka strategic planning, does not work. In much of the conversation, we describe complex problem-solving as a practice. One that demands a different lens than that of the dominant culture we call strategic planning.

We explore how many of us are learning our way into working with complexity. In that learning, it is important to acknowledge that the field is young, and most of us are still learning about how to address complex challenges. At the heart of our conversation, was a discussion about developing a new practice of strategy and strategic problem-solving. Although we talk about many things, we explore the notion of learning to fail forward, and better.

At some point in this conversation, we both acknowledge, that in trying to address this dominant culture, we are sometimes in a position where we have to have very difficult conversations with people who are very invested and passionate about their work, but chances are they will not see the outcome they are hoping to generate. At the end of our conversation, I was left with the question, how might we embrace an experimental approach to problem-solving when the dominant discourse or culture centers around a planned strategic approach to problem-solving?

If our systems are not fit for purpose, then it would seem obvious that we need to change them. We live in a project world where things are tactical, and it is assumed that these problems are linear. If so, then how might we genuinely embrace a complexity approach? I guess for now our thesis is that we need to cook or dance our way into it, but to understand what I mean you will need to listen to the episode. One clue might be Zaid’s favourite quote at the time of this recording:

"If progress, planning & reason have led to the failed systems that litter our landscapes, might speculation & dreaming be our only way forward?"- Victor Papanek

This episode, features SiG Director, Cheryl Rose. Cheryl is a Senior Fellow with The J.W. McConnell Family Foundation and has spent many years working to support social change agents through education and training that helps them to have more impact. Cheryl shares a wealth of knowledge in how we can think about changing systems and sectors.

Having been a mentor and coach to many disruptors, she reminds us to hold a systems lens or a complexity lens when thinking about generating change. For her, generating change is about accepting the honest complexity of our world. What are the implications of confronting honest complexity? With this question, she reminds us that change takes a long time and takes significant investments of resources. In the conversation, she stresses that resources are not just related to money, but are also connected to the social capital we invest in the problems we seek to solve. She warns us to stay away from shiny attractive ideas and to think about how these interventions can impact the system you seek to change.

For her, real systems entrepreneurs, in her experience, practice humility as a genuine asset in the work that they do. She asks listeners to think about who is the best person to implement an idea? So you have come up with an idea, take some time to consider, are you the person who has the skills and is well positioned to bring this idea into the world. Cheryl shares a number of insights that should make us pause, and think. What are the implications of confronting honest complexity? Hope you enjoy this episode.

Hope you enjoy this episode.

This disruptive conversations episode highlights how even with the best of intentions, we can sometimes betray ourselves and our loved ones when are not able to step into authenticity and vulnerability. This episode gets very personal, honest and intimate about disruption, death and cancer. In this episode, I talk with Brielle Morgan who is a daring and innovative journalist. Brielle and I share some very intimate moments in this episode. Through their startup media agency, Brielle and her colleagues are trying to rebuild public trust with journalist and news outlets. hoping to show was an approach to within the context of

This episode gets very personal, honest, and intimate about disruption, death and cancer. In this show, we have an unexpected conversation about how our personal experiences affect our professional choices. A surprising theme that came out of the interview was the importance of how in trying to protect our loved ones we can actually cause more hurt. Brielle and I share some very intimate past experiences that have shaped our thinking. Through their startup media agency, Brielle and her colleagues are trying to rebuild public trust with journalist and news outlets. hoping to show was an approach to within the context of

As journalists, Brielle and her colleagues are trying to rebuild public trust through their startup media agency, Discourse Media. They are working to share stories that reflect solutions to some of the most complex challenges in the world.

Links in the show:

Curious City: http://curiouscity.wbez.org/

The listening project/Listening post: http://wwno.org/programs/listening-post

This podcast was recorded over Skype. Both speakers were in different locations.

In this episode, I interview John Ruffolo Chief Executive Officer, OMERS Ventures. We explore how many of the entrepreneurs they invest in have a passion for solving a problem. He tells the story of Shopify. One of Canada's great entrepreneurial stories. John and his team look for founders who care deeply about the problem to be solved. He explains that there is a confusion between invention and innovation. For John, he doesn't see a lot of new invention, but rather interesting applications of technology in particular industries. When entrepreneurs are able to combine implementation and the idea, they can generate innovation.

John describes his work as providing the fuel for the rocket, while entrepreneurs work to build their ventures. In this interview, we share many insights from John and his years of experience advising some of the world's most innovative companies. John and his team are on the search for the most disruptive companies.

This podcast was recorded over Skype. Both speakers were in different locations.

Greg Tehvan is trying to reimage his hometown of Fargo, North Dakota. He describes Fargo as the last place someone visits when they try to visit every state in the United States. It is referred to as flyover country. For him, Fargo is a victim of Geographical bias or Geographical bullying. For example, if people say they are going to New York most of us might think they are going there to do business. If you are going to Los Angeles we might think you are joining the entertainment industry. If you are going to Silicon Vallery we might think you are joining a network of software engineers, but what if you are going to Fargo North Dakota?

Greg is working to flip this stereotype on its head. He and his team are working to create a place where people want to live. In this podcast, we hear from someone who loves his community and is using the power of ideas to celebrate and build the future of Fargo. Greg is a great mix of thoughtful, daring and disruptive. In this podcast, he talks about self-care and drones. Greg is wired awake by the question, what is Fargo's moonshot? What can Fargo be world class at? Greg is a big dreamer and is not afraid to make big dreams a reality.

LINKS IN THE PODCAST:

To find Greg you can visit his website: http://gregfromfargo.com/projects/

To learn more about his Emerging Fargo group: https://www.emergingprairie.com/

This podcast was recorded via Skype both speakers were in different locations.

Music provided by Clint Harewood you contact him on these websites:
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