How complex does animal communication get? How much information is encoded in dog barks, the clicks of sperm whales, or the chirps of small birds? In this conversation I speak with Irene Pepperberg, who is an expert on animal communication and cognition, best known for her work with African grey parrots. We discuss the remarkable abilities of her birds, from large vocabularies and complex verbal understanding, to counting and puzzle solving, to even competing with young children on certain cognitive tests. We also touch on deeper questions about how animals might see the world, the link between intelligence and personhood, the morals and ethics of doing science with highly intelligent animals, as well as the morals and ethics that animals themselves might have.

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►For more information about Irene's work, or if you would like to support her research: https://alexfoundation.org/

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