In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by Sebastian Hidalgo, co-founder of DURINDAL and creator of the SWAT method - a sales framework influenced by hostage negotiation principles.

Fred admits he's often sceptical when crisis negotiation gets blended with commercial sales, so this becomes a lively, grounded conversation: what genuinely transfers, what doesn't, and how to use "hostage" techniques ethically to improve trust, discovery, and positioning.

What you'll hear in this episode

• Sebastian's unusual origin story: becoming a certified hostage negotiator at 18
• The persistence it took to get accepted into training as a civilian and young applicant
• How later PSYOPs (psychological operations) training triggered an "aha" moment: he'd been applying negotiation principles in business without realising it
• Why Sebastian believes there's a gap between negotiation books (e.g. Never Split the Difference) and practical sales structure
• Fred's perspective: crisis negotiation ≠ commercial negotiation - and why that matters

The SWAT Method in a nutshell

Sebastian explains SWAT as a four-stage sales method designed to:

1. Earn trust faster
2. Create positioning in real time - not just against competitors, but against the buyer's past failed attempts with similar solutions

The four stages are:

• Influence
• Diagnosis
• Failure Mapping
• Value Alignment (what most people would call "the close", though Sebastian avoids that framing)

Influence + Diagnosis + Failure Mapping sit mainly in what traditional sales calls "discovery", but with more emphasis on trust, relevance, and reducing friction.

Where the "hostage" skills show up (without the Hollywood nonsense)

Sebastian's view: you don't need dramatic tactics - you need fundamentals executed well.

Key transferable skills include:

• Listening (with intent - often reinforced by taking notes)
• Active listening + mirroring (what intelligence work calls elicitation: helping people talk themselves deeper into the real issue)
• Staying calm under pressure
• Reading the person in front of you (tone, pacing, reactions) rather than hiding behind slides

He also highlights the need for flexible creativity - adapting your knowledge to the buyer's reality in the moment.

Key takeaway

The value isn't "hostage negotiation theatre."

It's using proven human skills - listening, trust-building, uncovering blockers early, and positioning through relevance to make sales feel less "gross" and more like service.

Connect with Sebastian

· LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sebastian-dp-hidalgo

• Email: [email protected]
• Website: https://www.durindal.com

Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-IP6Z7zU9Rg

Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers

Useful resources

• Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/