Ben squeezes into the VHS vault that is the Found Footage Festival (FFF) headquarters in NY with Joe Pickett—half of the FFF comedy duo who quit his job to follow a dirty country singer for four years, turned stolen instructional videos into a 20-year comedy empire, and once declared a half-naked woman painting ceramic clowns "the greatest moment in VHS history." Joe walks us through his filmmaking suicide pact with Nick Prueher, explains why Larry Pierce's "I Like to (BEEP)" changed everything, and reveals the dark truth about JINGLE BABIES. From sleeping on floors for a full year to getting sued in federal court for morning show pranks, Joe's path from documentary filmmaker to comedy archeologist proves you need to be willing to sleep on couches in order to finish what you start. We're surrounded by 14,638 tapes (no doubles), a giant Bart Simpson mask, and a signed GROWING PAINS poster that survived the New York subway. Plus: his new doc is so illegal you have to sign an NDA just to watch it.

Discussion links: VHS PARTY LIVE! (2026) | DIRTY COUNTRY (2007) | CHOP & STEELE (2022) | AMERICAN MOVIE (1999

) | SHERMAN'S MARCH (1985) | WINNEBAGO MAN (2009)

Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to Found Footage Festival HQ 02:42 The origin story: Larry Pierce and dirty country music 07:41 Quitting jobs and the suicide pact 11:17 Following weirdos for four and a half years 15:28 How Found Footage Festival started as fundraising 19:56 South by Southwest premiere and audience award 24:19 Greatest hits from the VHS vault 29:13 What makes bad things good 34:24 Lightning round: American Movie as gateway drug 40:00 Advice for aspiring filmmakers: sleep on couches 45:00 Video Filmed for Life—the illegal documentary

What does impact look like? That's what we're asking this week's guest, Courtney Cook—a veteran impact producer who's helped hundreds of doc-makers answer that question in her 7-years at POV. A high school teacher-turned-PhD-turned-doc-producer and soon-to-be professor of documentary film at Texas State, Courtney has strong opinions about perspective, ethics, and how having a "bad attitude" is the only way to make it in this field.

Courtney happily draws inspiration from Black Feminist Thought, HANDS ON A HARDBODY, and the stop-motion masters, the Brothers Quay—explaining just what it means to be "theoretically promiscuous." Transitioning out of her role at POV and preparing to re-enter academia, we catch Courtney shortly before the Augmented Reality project LAYERS OF PLACE: AUSTIN that she produced with the MIT Open Documentary Lab makes its debut at SXSW this Spring. Courtney breaks down the difference between making art and making a career, why you should know how you want to "haunt" your audience, and what it actually takes to build a life as a documentary storyteller when you're not "kind-of rich." This wide-ranging walk cuts through the noise and confusion of the current doc landscape and lands at a simple conclusion, that the real silver lining in this industry is us. "We're the silver lining."

Plus: the gospel of asking better questions, how EYES ON THE PRIZE changed her entire life, why librarians rule, and a peek inside a little free art gallery in the Mueller neighborhood of East Austin. This one's about community, hustle, and learning to "hold on gently."

Discussion Links: EYES ON THE PRIZE (1987-1990) | HANDS ON A HARD BODY (1997) | LAYERS OF PLACE: AUSTIN (2026)

Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction 02:00 Outlook on Texas Filmmaking and Doc Distribution 05:00 Mueller Lake Park and POV Impact Work 07:00 Education, Ethics, and Power in Documentary 10:00 From PhD to POV: Courtney's Path 15:00 Building Careers vs. Building Projects 19:00 Producer Pay and Labor Practices 23:00 The Three-Month Trial Period 26:00 Feisty Conversations and Better Questions 29:00 Grant Applications and Process 33:00 Theoretically Promiscuous 34:00 Silver Linings: We Have Each Other 37:00 MIT Augmented Reality Project 39:00 It's All Who You Know (Two Steps Away) 43:00 Believing in People Until You Learn Otherwise 45:00 Gateway Drug: Eyes on the Prize 48:00 Advice for Emerging Filmmakers 52:00 Little Free Art Gallery Discovery 53:00 DIY Impact and Educational Distribution 55:00 What's Next for Courtney

This week, Ben is on a solo mission to a freezing New York City, where legendary filmmaker Alan Berliner guides him through his studio that's equal parts fine art gallery and documentary laboratory. We're talking about a 108 drawer sound sculpture that Alan plays like an instrument, flood-destroyed film reels turned gorgeous works of art, and the kind of collections that make you wonder where archiving ends and genius begins. Alan waxes poetic on the fine art vs. filmmaker debate, breaks down why every film portrait is really about the person behind the camera, and encourages thinking like a filmmaker even when you're not on set. We get into his philosophy on acting at the speed of thought, editing without treatments, trusting your gut and letting the material tell you what it wants. Then there's his new film, BENITA, a deeply personal work born from decades of friendship and unimaginable loss — Alan's tribute to a woman whose story yearned to be told, even after she was gone. He opens up about what it means to honor someone through film, and why he believes the documentary world is about to shrink fast. This one's about honoring both your mentors — in the case of Ben learning from Alan — and your mentee's — in the case of Alan coming to know Benita. Buckle up for a beautiful, wild walk through Alan Berliner's studio and his filmmaking career.

DISCUSSION LINKS:

INTIMATE STRANGER (1991) | NOBODY'S BUSINESS (1996) | THE SWEETEST SOUND (2001) | WIDE AWAKE (2006) | FIRST COUSIN ONCE REMOVED (2012) | BENITA (2024) | THE FAMILY ALBUM (1986)

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Welcome to Doc Walks: Ben Solo in NYC 00:49 Meeting Alan Berliner at His Studio 02:42 Audio File: The 108 Drawer Sound Sculpture 07:00 The Object Cabinets: Bells, Keys, and Lock Drawers 11:17 Composing with Drawers: Live Demonstration 14:00 "Slow Dissolve" and Think Like a Filmmaker 19:56 Fine Art vs. Documentary: Does the Distinction Matter? 23:00 Parts and Labor: The 534-Frame Machine Sculpture 30:00 Translucent: Film Reels as Light Sculptures 34:24 The Title Card Lens Installation 40:00 The Martin Luther King Jr. Citizenship Award 45:00 Oklahoma, Graduate School, and Unlikely Origins 50:00 From Grandfather to Father to Self: The Portrait Films 56:00 Never Writing a Treatment: The Intuitive Process 1:03:00 Acting at the Speed of Thought 1:07:00 BENITA: A Collaboration with the Departed 1:16:00 The Documentary Landscape in Crisis 1:22:00 Windows and Mirrors: The Purpose of Portraiture 1:26:00 Advice for Filmmakers: Fascination and Need 1:31:00 Closing and Next Episode Preview

Come along as Ben flies solo—no Keith, just the UT campus and two documentary titans who've been making films together longer than most marriages last: the indomitable Louis Alvarez and Andrew Kolker have a working partnership runnin' north of fifty years. They made AMERICAN TONGUES (1988) back when folks across the US said they just spoke like everyone else. They made PEOPLE LIKE US (1999) while Americans were spurring their nose at class conversations. And they're still at it—currently chasing down an obscure architect and sharing a film about a storied Texas State Senator. We get into the unglamorous truth of comedic docs (funders hate them), the secret to not killing your creative partner (separate wives, separate boroughs), and why the best stories are in places nobody's looking. They started as VISTA volunteers in New Orleans with no one to tell them where to point the camera. Now they're late-career and busy doing whatever the hell they want. Plus: we decipher a bunch of boats strung together, we bask in neo-classical architecture, all while Louis just wants a dirty chai.

DISCUSSION LINKS:

AMERICAN TONGUES (1988) | YEAH YOU RITE! (1985) | PEOPLE LIKE US (1999) | CONFLUENCE (2024) | WINNEBAGO MAN (2010)

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Keith sits this one out 00:49 Meeting Louis and Andy on the UT campus 02:42 The Rodney Ellis short and pulling political levers 04:13 Fifty years of partnership—step one: separate wives 07:41 Cass Gilbert: The everywhere architect you've never heard of 11:17 VISTA volunteers in 1970s New Orleans 15:28 Filming the intangible—accents, class, motherhood 17:48 Why funders hate funny 19:56 The three Cs killing documentary: celebrity, crime, cults 22:08 Steel canoes and the sculpture guessing game 25:32 Making CONFLUENCE during COVID 29:13 AI horror movies and the death of 90-minute docs 34:24 Advice: Go where nobody else is 37:00 Co-directing—the case for and against 43:00 Turtle pond, dirty chai, wrap it up

Consider this your midnight toast to new beginnings—we're popping the cork on our Sundance episode just in time for the calendar reset. As 2024 turns to 2025, we're grateful for the documentary community that keeps showing up, keeps creating, and keeps walking these festival streets in search of collaborators, inspiration, and maybe a free hot cocoa. So grab a glass of whatever you're having, bundle up (it's 31 degrees in spirit), and ring in the New Year with Ben and Keith's man-on-the-street adventure through Park City…

We're walkin' and talkin' through the heart of Sundance, crashing the festival without a film and somehow finding exactly what we came for. From chance encounters with Iranian filmmakers debuting their first feature to freestyle raps from parking lot attendants, this episode captures the serendipity of showing up. We debate whether you need to be a "hopeless optimist" or a "pragmatic realist" to survive indie filmmaking (spoiler: legendary producer Sue Kim has strong opinions). Along the way we spot tuxedo pigeons, dodge UPS trucks, and nearly intercept Conan O'Brien. Plus: the house analogy for selling your film that actually makes sense.

Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to Doc Walks: Sundance Day 00:49 First Impressions: 31 Degrees and Feeling Like Imposters 02:42 Why Sundance Matters (Even Without a Film) 04:13 The House Analogy: Films, Sales Agents, and Finding Your Plot of Land 07:41 Man on the Street: Volunteers, Skiers, and the Latino Flu Panel 11:17 Meeting Frank Mosley: In-Person Connection in a Virtual World 15:28 Iranian Filmmakers Debut: Cutting Through Rocks 17:48 The Adobe House and Free Hot Cocoa 19:56 Chosen Glory: Parking Lot Freestyle and Good Vibes 22:08 Speed and First: Hope for the Future Generation 25:32 Producer Sue Kim: The Case Against Hopeless Optimism 29:13 Hopeful vs. Hopeless: Finding Your Festival Philosophy 34:24 Wrapping Up Day One and Looking Ahead

Discussion Links: CUTTING THROUGH ROCKS (2025) | OVEX (2025) | WINNEBAGO MAN (2009) | TOWER (2016)

Consider this a favorite re-wrapped Christmas gift just for you—Matt Wolf's PEE-WEE AS HIMSELF documentary is streaming now on HBO, reminding us all that the best presents are the ones that make us feel like kids again. This holiday season we're celebrating filmmakers who find magic in obsession and who build their own creative communities one passion project at a time. So pour yourself some eggnog, settle in by the fireplace, and unwrap our conversation with Matt—a filmmaker who turned his love of underground artists into a career that spans from cello-playing disco composers to the most beloved man-child in American comedy…

It's a walk and talk through Matt Wolf's Lower East Side neighborhood as Ben unspools the making of WILD COMBINATION and Matt's path as a gay teen activist to documentary filmmaker. Matt opens up about why he never puts his own money into projects (and how he's managed to pull that off), the importance of finishing what you start, and finding archives you didn't know existed. We dig into his new soap opera doc filming behind the scenes at THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL, and Matt shares his philosophy on building a body of work that surprises even himself. Plus: the secret to finding your creative community in a Melrose Place-style Manhattan courtyard.

Timestamps:

00:00 Walking to Meet Matt Wolf in New York

01:26 Matt's Melrose Place: Building Community in Manhattan

02:33 First Connections: Wild Combination and Arthur Russell

05:11 From Gay Teen Activist to Documentary Filmmaker

08:21 The Documentary That Was Made About Matt (And Why He Hated It)

09:45 Paper Tiger Television and the Experimental Film World

11:46 How Wild Combination Became a Feature (Accidentally)

13:11 Finding Your Niche and Telling Stories That Connect

16:29 The Search for Stories: Archives and Access

20:56 Never Put Your Own Money In: Matt's Golden Rule

23:41 Taking a Break (And Why It Never Really Works)

25:32 The New Project: Behind the Scenes of Soap Operas

28:16 The State of Documentary: Shrinking Budgets and Staying True

31:27 Building a Body of Work That Surprises You

33:19 What Keeps Matt Going: The Love of the Work

35:37 Advice for Filmmakers: Finish What You Start

37:01 Wrapping Up the Walk

Discussion Links:

WILD COMBINATION: A PORTRAIT OF ARTHUR RUSSELL (2008) | PEE-WEE HERMAN AS HIMSELF (2025) | WELCOME TO THE DOLLHOUSE (1995) | SPACESHIP EARTH (2020) | THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS (1973-present) | THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL (1987-present)

As we close-out of our first year of doc'in & walkin' it's time to take stock in what this podcast is all about. We're excited to welcome self-proclaimed number one fan and Australian-born doc-maker, Sally O'Grady for a year-end, Year in Review episode. This nature-walk snakes through the wilderness behind Sally's North Austin home as Ben intros us to a game of "High, Low, Buffalo, Mitzvah" (a Steinbauer family dinner game) and a chance to reflect on the ups, downs, weird little moments and the true mitzvahs of our first 33 episodes. We'll catch up with some favorite Doc Walks bits, dig into what's working, get schooled on our Bechdel Test failures (eight women out of 33 guests—Sally came with receipts), and navigate the eternal tension between preparation and off-the-cuff authenticity. And Sally shares her 10-year journey making THE TROUBLE I SEE, a film about incarcerated fathers and their daughters, premiering at AFS Cinema on January 14th (tix on sale now!)

Along the way: a surprise encounter with an 86-year-old Vietnamese general-turned-crossing guard, a sit-down at Sally's Pond™, and a chance to commune with a magnificent blue heron who refuses to fly. Through the highs, the lows, the birds and the buffaloes, every step we've taken together in 2025 has been a mitzvah… happy holidays to you, and thanks for walking this road with us!

THE TROUBLE I SEE (2025) | WINNEBAGO MAN (2010) | TOWER (2016) | HIGH HOPES (2024) | PEEWEE PLAYS HIMSELF (2025)

00:00 Introduction and Sally O'Grady arrives 01:05 Sally as "number one fan" and Doc Walks origin story 02:00 Discovering Copperfield Nature Trail in northeast Austin 03:00 Sally's journey from Sydney to New York to Austin 05:00 Year one reflections and holiday episode setup 06:30 Do Ben-and-Keith-only episodes work? Sally weighs in 08:30 "Gardener Not a Carpenter" and useful documentary wisdom 10:00 Ben's vulnerability about prep vs. free-jazz conversations 11:00 Keith on wanting episodes to feel more like real conversations 13:00 The magnificent blue-painted live oak 14:30 High-Low-Buffalo-Mitzvah game explained 16:00 Sally's HIGH: Diane Quon's sensitive interview and Megan Gilbride's "make fucking cinema" 18:00 The title debate: why "Make Fucking Cinema" got vetoed 20:30 Keith's HIGH: Matt Wolf episode and overcoming fears about solo Ben episodes 23:30 Ben's HIGH: Celebrating Maureen Gosling and Les Blank's legacy 26:00 Sally's LOW: The Bechdel Test reality check (8 women out of 33 guests) 28:30 Ben and Keith respond to diversity critique 31:00 Ben's LOW: The off-camera conflict moment with Keith 34:30 Keith's LOW: Wanting guests to recognize them as fellow filmmakers 38:30 Buffalo: Matt Wolf's vanity and Ben's "tugboat" gaffe 40:00 Keith's Buffalo: Birds and describing the world 42:00 Ben's Buffalo: Embracing new formats amid industry change 43:30 Meeting Sally's neighbor Bowie, the 86-year-old Vietnamese general 46:30 Keith's mitzvah and development deal announcement 47:00 The blue heron finally appears 50:00 Sally's film THE TROUBLE I SEE and 10-year journey 54:00 Working with editor Sandra Guardado 57:30 Sally's next project: MA'AM and scammers targeting women therapists 1:01:00 Closing reflections and 2026 preview

What is it with all the doc-filmmakers turning to podcasting?!? No, not us… we're talkin' about David Modigliani—a playwright turned poet turned documentary filmmaker turned podcaster (and Stanley Tucci voice director). This is a fun walk with an old friend at a park rumored to be populated by peacocks!

The director of 2008's CRAWFORD (about a small town invaded by George W. Bush) and 2019's RUNNING WITH BETO (a quixotic look at Beto O'Rouke's life on the campaign trail), David is back in Austin for 36-hours to emcee the Home Slice Pizza Carnival and crash his old improv troupe, so naturally we dragged him through rocky trails and past $10 million homes to talk about his winding path from the Michener Center Grad program to doc-making, to his latest creation: PACK ONE BAG, an investigative podcast about his grandparents' escape from fascist Italy that premiered at Tribeca in 2024.

David speaks from personal experience (and with his hands) about why improv is basically documentary directing, how hybridized narrative podcasting allowed him to write dialogue for Stanley Tucci as his great-grandfather—and what it means to metabolize democracy's fragility in this troubled time. Plus: bubbling ponds of coy fish, finding a peacock carved in stone, and David voices his Italian grandparents' (as he does in his podcast) with glee.

This episode is sponsored by our friends at The Long Time—a 5-acre event-space and playground for your imagination. It's also the home field of The Texas Playboys (the sandlot baseball team that both Ben and David play for) and an ideal location for film productions!

For more information go to thelongtime.com and follow along on IG @thelongtimetexas.

DISCUSSION LINKS:

CRAWFORD (2008) | DONT LOOK BACK (1967) | RUNNING WITH BETO (2019) | PACK ONE BAG (2024) | BOYHOOD (2014) | MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG (2024) | BLUE MOON (2025) | HIT MAN (2023)

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction and Setup at Mayfield Park 02:00 Shoutouts: Chris Floyd, Pizza Champion & Austin Sayers' Steve Fromholz Doc 04:00 Finding Our Footing on Rocky Trails 07:00 The Santa Fe Grandparent Babysitting Setup 10:00 From Playwriting to Documentary: The Michener Center Years 13:00 Crawford Origins: Mini DV and Cindy Sheehan 17:00 Improv as Documentary Directing 21:00 The Yes-And of Verite Filmmaking 24:00 Houses Documentary Filmmakers Will Never Live In 26:00 The Grip's Advice: Get Feedback While You Can 30:00 Branded Content as Film School 34:00 Wounded Warrior Project and MSNBC 37:00 Pack One Bag: Fleeing Fascist Italy 42:00 Why Audio? Creative Nonfiction and Invented Archival 46:00 Writing Dialogue for Stanley Tucci 50:00 Playwriting Meets Podcasting 54:00 The HBO Bus Billboard Moment 58:00 Audio's Frictionless Distribution 01:03:00 What's Next: Italian Version and Screen Adaptation 01:05:00 Lightning Round: Don't Look Back, Linklater Dreams, Fatherhood 01:10:00 Metabolizing the Political Moment 01:12:00 David Does His Grandparents' Voices

Keith's out this week, so Ben is strutting Travis Heights solo with his good pal Scott(y) Ballew. Scott's a lesson in cutting-against the grain and getting more for it. You might know him from his work as the former Head of Content at Yeti, making 100+ branded docs with one rule: no product placement. Scott's path is pure chaos theory - starting with a UT football national championship ring, spending time as an insurance salesman, working the ol' LA PA grind to end up changing how brands tell stories (all while writing and recording his own songs), Scott's tried it all. We dig into the decade-long golden era at Yeti where he worked with 20 filmmakers at once (including Ben on the TOOTSIE film), and how he learned directing on the job from his inspirations. Scott breaks down Terry Allen's "follow the muse" philosophy (including how it sent him on his own musical journey), the surreal Telluride premiere of ALL THAT IS SACRED (his Jimmy Buffett/Tom McGuane film that premiered the day Buffett died), and why he'd rather make films with friends than chase a Townes Van Zandt-type of obsession (learning in part by documenting Townes' son, J.T.).

Plus: exploring classic Texas cinema with Jeff Nichols, why loving your subjects beats gotcha filmmaking, and the eternal truth that podcasts are the new mayonnaise.

This episode is sponsored by our friends at The Long Time—a 5-acre event-space and playground for your imagination. It's also the home field of The Texas Playboys (the sandlot baseball team that both Ben and Scott play for).

For more information go to thelongtime.com and follow along on IG @thelongtimetexas

Discussion Links: WINNEBAGO MAN (2009) | GREENBERG (2010) | DIG! (2004) | BE HERE TO LOVE ME (2004) | THE DEVIL AND DANIEL JOHNSTON (2005) | NO DIRECTION HOME (2005) | MUD (2012) | ALL THAT IS SACRED (2023) | THE LONG TIME (2018) | TOOTSIE (2016) | ANCHOR POINT (2016) | EVERYTHING FOR ALL REASONS (2019)

Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Travis Heights Walk 02:00 Defining Yourself as a Creative 05:00 UT Football and National Championship 09:00 LA Dreams: Music Manager to PA 13:00 Podcasts Are the New Mayonnaise 15:00 Starting at Yeti 18:00 Why Branded Docs Work 24:00 Learning to Direct in the Edit Room 31:00 The Golden Era and Going Public 35:00 Writing Songs Out of Necessity 40:00 Tom McGuane, Jimmy Buffett, and Key West 47:00 Loving Your Subjects 53:00 Telluride and Jimmy Buffett's Death 57:00 Moving to Tecovas 01:00:00 Working with Jeff Nichols 01:02:00 Lightning Round: NO DIRECTION HOME (at home) 01:06:00 Dynamic Life vs One-Track Obsession 01:12:00 Closing Thoughts

Consider this your second helping of the holiday—Charlie Shackleton's THE ZODIAC KILLER PROJECT is now playing in theaters, which means audiences can now experience one of the most twisted, brightest docs of the year. This thanksgiving we're grateful for filmmakers who take big swings and for audiences who show up to support adventurous storytelling. So grab another slice of pie, settle in, and revisit our SXSW conversation with Charlie—a filmmaker who turned rejection into art and morphed failure into near-genius…

Walk and talk with ZODIAC KILLER PROJECT director Charlie Shackleton as he recounts the challenges (& opportunities) of bringing a film to new life after losing access to the subject. We'll explore Charlie's love-hate relationship with true crime and the way his film twists up familiar tropes. Never one to accept creative defeat, Charlie extolls the virtues of having a close collaboration with your entertainment lawyer and takes us back to the inspiration of Nick Broomfield as a basis for overcoming rejection on screen. We share a lot of laughs and together decide to start a cult! Join us… for this episode of Doc Walks.

00:00 Welcome to Doc Walks: South by Southwest Day

00:49 Meeting Charlie Shackleton: A Unique Filmmaker

02:42 The Zodiac Killer Project: A Film About Failure

04:13 Overcoming Obstacles: The Making of Zodiac Killer Project

07:41 Archival Films and Legal Battles

11:17 Influences and Inspirations: The Filmmakers Who Shaped Charlie

15:28 Pitching and Funding: The Journey to Create Zodiac Killer Project

17:48 A Twist on True Crime: Charlie's Unique Approach

19:56 Starting a New Cult: A Filmmaker's Perspective

20:23 Intentional Critique in Documentary Filmmaking

22:08 Navigating Personal Involvement in Documentaries

25:32 The Reality of Developing Multiple Projects

29:13 Advice for Aspiring Filmmakers

34:24 Concluding Thoughts and Future Episodes