Documentary First: Conversations on Documentary Filmmaking

In this episode, the team reflects on a groundbreaking year in documentary filmmaking. From innovative theatrical release strategies to building community through outreach and merchandise, they share the key moments that defined their success. 

Highlights include the D-Day commemoration, expanding audience engagement through social media, and signing a new distribution deal to bring their film into schools. Through teamwork, persistence, and creative problem-solving, the team achieved new milestones while staying true to their storytelling mission.

Takeaways

• 2024 was an incredible year for the team.

• Balancing compelling stories with smart business strategies is essential.

• Knowing your audience drives both engagement and monetization.

• Social media experiments revealed what resonates most.

• Strategic outreach made theatrical releases possible.

• Merchandise and events connect audiences to the film’s message.

• Collaboration and self-education helped overcome challenges.

• Community-building efforts created lasting impact.

Timecodes

00:00 Introduction 02:19 Reflecting on a Successful Year 11:13 Innovative Strategies for Theatrical Release 20:13 Outreach and Engagement Strategies 24:49 D-Day Commemoration and Veteran Experiences 29:07 Building Community Through Content 33:18 Merchandising and Event Engagement 36:54 Reflections on a Year of Achievements

Sponsor: http://ArtillerySports.com Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your order today!

In this episode of Documentary First, hosts Christian and Jake Taylor focus on the journey of "The Girl Who Wore Freedom" so far. They explore the challenges of independent filmmaking, the importance of event screenings, and the value of building relationships with audiences.

Logistics of pricing for screenings, the role of merchandising, and the long-term commitment required to see a documentary through is also discussed.

Takeaways

• Event screenings are crucial for audience engagement and fundraising.

• Building relationships with viewers enhances the documentary experience.

• Merchandising can significantly improve audience interaction.

• Independent filmmakers face unique financial challenges.

• Pricing for screenings should reflect the audience's ability to pay.

• Creating a unique experience at screenings is essential.

• Patience is key in the documentary filmmaking process.

• Understanding your audience is vital for success.

• Every event is an opportunity to share stories and build connections.

Timecodes

00:00 Introduction to Documentary First 02:53 The Journey of 'The Girl Who Wore Freedom' 11:08 Challenges and Strategies in Documentary Filmmaking 18:14 The Importance of Screenings and Audience Engagement 25:22 Merchandising as a New Revenue Stream 30:47 Expanding the Documentary Brand 31:12 Archival Footage and Storytelling 32:36 The Battlefield Cross: A Symbol of Sacrifice 35:27 Creating Meaningful Merchandise 39:15 Understanding Audience Preferences 41:04 Investing in Documentary Filmmaking 43:55 The Importance of Event Work 49:55 Finding Your Audience 52:13 Patience in Building a Brand 53:25 DocuView Déjà Vu

DocuView Déjà Vu

JAKE: Documentary: Secrets & Spies: A Nuclear Game, 2024, Watch on HBO MAX, 4 Episode Series, IMDB Link: Secrets & Spies: A Nuclear Game (TV Series 2024– ) ⭐ 7.3 | Documentary

Narrative: The Iron Claw, 2023, 132 mins, Watch on MAX or Prime, IMDB Link: The Iron Claw (2023) ⭐ 7.6 | Biography, Drama, Sport

Christian: Documentary: Mr McMahon, 2024, 6 Episode Series on Netflix, IMDB Link: Mr. McMahon (TV Series 2024) ⭐ 7.7 | Documentary, Biography, Crime

Narrative: A Family Affair, 2024, 111 mins, Watch on Netflix, IMDB Link: A Family Affair (2024) ⭐ 5.3 | Comedy, Drama, Romance

Sponsor: http://ArtillerySports.com Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your order today!

In this captivating episode of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor sits down with filmmakers Sarah Burns and David McMahon to discuss their forthcoming documentary on the legendary Leonardo da Vinci. Together, they explore the creative process behind bringing Leonardo’s life and genius to the screen, the challenges of capturing his story, and the innovative techniques they used to breathe life into his work.

From the importance of curiosity and expert insights to the immersive experience of researching in Italy, Sarah and David share a fascinating look at what it takes to honor Leonardo’s legacy. They also dive into the role of voice, music, and visuals in creating an engaging documentary and share exclusive details about accessing and interpreting da Vinci’s masterpieces.

Takeaways

• Curiosity as a Driving Force: Leonardo’s endless curiosity inspired both the filmmakers and their storytelling approach.

• Unique Challenges: Limited visual material called for creative methods to portray Leonardo’s genius.

• Innovative Techniques: The filmmakers used unique storytelling techniques to convey Leonardo's many talents.

• Expert Perspectives: A diverse cast of experts enriches the film’s exploration of Leonardo’s impact.

• Immersive Research: Living in Italy allowed the filmmakers to deeply connect with Leonardo’s world.

• Voice & Music: Carefully chosen voiceovers and a powerful score bring emotional depth to Leonardo’s story.

• Access to Originals: Viewing Leonardo’s original works was pivotal to the film’s authenticity.

• Inspiration for Viewers: The documentary celebrates Leonardo’s legacy, inspiring audiences to appreciate his contributions to art and science.

DocuView Déjà Vu

SARAH: When we Were Kings, 1996, 88mins, Watch on MAX, IMDB Link: When We Were Kings (1996) ⭐ 7.9 | Documentary, Sport

DAVID: How to Survive a Plague, 2012, 110 mins, Watch on AMC+ Channels (Prime), IMDB Link: How to Survive a Plague (2012) ⭐ 7.6 | Documentary, History, News

Timecodes:

00:00 Introduction to the Filmmakers 07:39 Exploring Leonardo da Vinci's Mind 17:01 Challenges and Innovations in Filmmaking 26:55 The Role of Experts and Perspectives 37:24 Living in Italy: Immersion in Leonardo's World 46:06 The Power of Voice and Music in Storytelling 52:52 Accessing Leonardo's Works and Legacy 56:14 DocuView Déjà Vu

In this insightful episode, host Christian Taylor sits down with French filmmaker Matt Beurois, director of Fancy Like Walker Hayes, to explore the heartwarming story of country music sensation Walker Hayes and his family. Beurois shares his journey into documentary filmmaking and provides a behind-the-scenes look at capturing the Hayes family’s rise to fame.

From the importance of storytelling and the challenges of balancing creativity with business, to the dynamics of trust, family, and fame, this conversation dives deep into the art and heart of filmmaking. Matt discusses the importance of timing in the music and film industry, lessons learned in navigating contracts and distribution, and the unique support system that has guided Walker and his family. Join us for an inspiring look at the power of family, resilience, and passion in pursuing creative dreams.

Links: Trailer for Walker Hayes documentary: https://vimeo.com/996694150/364f20c291?share=copy

Matt’s DocuView Déjà Vu:

Still: A Michael J Fox Movie, 2023, 95 mins, Watch on Apple TV+, IMDB Link: Still: A Michael J. Fox Movie (2023) – IMDb

Timecodes:

00:00 Introduction to Documentary Filmmaking 02:53 Matt Beurois: A French Filmmaker’s Journey 06:03 The Importance of Education and Self-Learning in Filmmaking 09:02 Navigating the Film Industry: Business and Creativity 12:09 The Unique Story of ‘Fancy Like’ and Walker Hayes 17:59 Behind the Scenes: Creating the Documentary 24:01 The Hayes Family: Love, Struggle, and Success 29:30 Crafting the Narrative: The Editing Process 34:05 Family Dynamics on Tour: Balancing Fame and Family 37:27 The Business of Music: Understanding the Industry 46:41 Challenges in Filmmaking: Contracts and Legalities 52:37 DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendations 54:18 What’s coming next for Matt

In this episode, host Christian Taylor sits down with Emmy-nominated editor and producer Evan Wise, ACE, to delve into his career journey and unique approach to documentary filmmaking. Evan shares his path from a rebellious skate punk in New Jersey to becoming a highly respected editor, working on acclaimed series like HBO’s The Circus and Q: Into the Storm. The conversation turns to his latest project, Chimp Crazy, a four-part HBO series that explores the complex world of primates.

Evan offers a behind-the-scenes look at Chimp Crazy, discussing the creative and technical challenges of editing a real-time documentary. He emphasizes the importance of finding a compelling story arc, balancing multiple perspectives, and allowing the audience to interpret the narrative independently. He also shares his unique workflow, which involves producing, writing, and editing simultaneously—an approach that fosters flexibility and creativity.

Throughout the episode, Evan provides valuable insights and practical advice for aspiring editors. He highlights essential skills like negotiation, teamwork, and self-advocacy, offering listeners an inside view of the collaborative and often intense world of documentary editing.

DocuView Dèjà Vu

• Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills, 1996, 150 mins, Watch on Amazon / Prime, IMDB Link: Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (1996) ⭐ 8.2 | Documentary, Crime

• Diamond Hands: Legends of WallStreetBets, 2022, 89 mins, Watch on Peacock, IMDB Link: Diamond Hands: The Legend of WallStreetBets (2022) ⭐ 4.7 | Documentary

Takeaways

• Hard work and enthusiasm are key for advancing in documentary filmmaking.

• Building relationships with experienced editors and filmmakers is invaluable for growth.

• Film school offers resources but isn’t necessary for success in the industry.

• Starting in entry-level roles, like logger or assistant editor, can lead to an editing career.

• High-profile projects and recognition, like Emmy nominations, can open new doors.

• Creating a series involves tailoring the format, episode length, and story to the footage available.

• Presenting multiple perspectives lets the audience form their own opinions.

• Filming, writing, and editing at the same time allows for creative, flexible storytelling.

• Creative problem-solving makes scenes more engaging and visually dynamic.

• Negotiation skills and self-advocacy are crucial for an editor's success.

• Building positive relationships and being kind to others is essential in the editing world.

Timecodes:

00:00 Introduction and Housekeeping 03:21 Evan Wise's Journey in Documentary Filmmaking 07:52 The Importance of Hard Work and Building Relationships 14:30 The Role of Loggers and Assistant Editors 18:14 Turning Points in Evan Wise's Career 21:40 Creating 'Chimp Crazy' 25:16 Discovering the Story 28:26 Filming, Writing, and Editing Simultaneously 31:35 Revealing Unseen Processes 37:32 Editors as Writers 40:05 The Importance of Being Nice 45:50 DocuView Dèjà Vu

In this episode, Christian interviews her eldest son, the one with whom her entire film adventure began. In 2011 he joined the military and that life decision had big implications for the whole family. They discuss his military journey and their shared experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic.

They discuss themes of trust, perseverance, and the importance of community. Christian’s son shares his passion for the military and his desire to serve as a warfighter. They also touch on the challenges and rewards of running a business together.

Overall, the conversation highlights the lessons learned and the growth that comes from facing difficult circumstances. Support us on Patreon and get Documentary First exclusive content like this episode for $5+ a month. Patreon.com/DocumentaryFirst

Takeaways

• Trust in God's provision and have faith in His plan, even in difficult times.

• Challenges and setbacks can lead to unexpected opportunities and growth.

• Building a strong community and culture is essential for personal and professional development.

• Having a mentor or someone with experience can provide valuable guidance and support.

• Passion and dedication are key to pursuing a fulfilling career or vocation.

In this insightful episode of the Documentary First Podcast, Christian Taylor, David Paterson, and Todd Anderson delve into the data and hard-earned lessons from the theatrical release of The Girl Who Wore Freedom.

They explore the surprising factors that influenced ticket sales, including screening schedules, ticket pricing, and the often overlooked role of theater advertising—or lack thereof. The team shares their experiences with the logistical hurdles of distributing physical drives and the critical importance of targeted outreach to specific audiences.

Reflecting on their journey, the hosts candidly discuss the missteps and lessons learned, underscoring the necessity of strategic planning, research, and building strong partnerships in independent film distribution. This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the complex world of documentary filmmaking and theatrical releases.

No DocuView Dèjà Vu this episode

In this episode of Documentary First, Christian Taylor is joined by Joe Amodei and Tim Maggiani from Virgil Films Entertainment to dive into the evolving world of film distribution and the diminishing role of film festivals in securing deals.

The discussion sheds light on how the dominance of streaming platforms and studios has shifted the landscape, making it increasingly difficult for independent filmmakers to gain visibility through traditional film festivals.

The conversation explores the significance of IMDb in shaping a film’s release strategy and public perception. Christian and Tim emphasize the importance of meticulously managing your IMDb page, from the release date to cast listings, to enhance your film’s appeal. They also highlight the critical role of eye-catching key art in capturing attention.

The hosts delve into how streaming platforms utilize algorithms to curate content tailored to user preferences, changing the way audiences discover films. They also discuss the growing prominence of ad-supported video on demand (AVOD) services like Tubi and Pluto TV, which provide filmmakers with new avenues to reach diverse audiences.

Joe Amodei reflects on his personal connection with Morgan Spurlock, sharing how the success of Spurlock’s documentary Super Size Me profoundly impacted Virgil Films and the documentary industry. He pays tribute to their enduring friendship, underscoring the value of supporting one another in both personal and professional endeavors.

DocuView Dèjà Vu

IMDB LINK: Morgan Spurlock | Producer, Writer, Director

Super Size Me, 2004, 100mins, Watch on Peacock, Pluto, Prime, Roku, Tubi and Plex, IMDB LINK: Super Size Me (2004) ⭐ 7.2 | Documentary

You know our good friend, Joe Amodei (Supersize Me) from past episodes. Now meet his protégé, Tim Maggiani, who is a great explainer of the modern film distribution process. Joe, a seasoned pro in VHS and DVD sales, admits the need for his distribution company to stay nimble and adaptable to new technology and platforms.

Enter Tim. He understands the streaming world yet adheres to the age-old method of cultivating relationships between filmmakers and distributors—a key ingredient to success. By listening to this podcast, one will gain understanding about: what it is like to attend a Hollywood pitch meeting, how a movie is delivered, and why it is important to find a champion for your film. Stay tuned to Documentary First to hear Part 2 later this month!

Links:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/

DocuView Dèjà Vu

Tim Maggiani: "Just. One. Mile.", 2023, 1hr 36min, Watch on Tubi and Prime, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt28619147/

Joe Amodei: “7 Yards: The Chris Norton Story”, 2021, 93 mins, Watch on Tubi and Prime, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12439210/

What happens when two parents who have never made a film decide the world needs to see what changed their child's life?

Whitney and Brandon Cawood took synthetic food dyes out of their child's diet and watched the change with their own eyes. Whitney says it was so dramatic she would have struggled to believe it if another parent had told her the same story. She wanted to understand the science, so she asked the researchers herself, and Brandon, a commercial photographer and videographer, agreed to film it. The result is To Dye For: The Documentary, made by a husband-and-wife crew of two.

In Episode 232, Christian Taylor sits down with Whitney and Brandon Cawood, the first-time filmmakers behind To Dye For. Whitney is a former teacher and digital marketer who set up every interview and asked the questions on camera. Brandon is a former touring musician who was working as a third-shift security guard, doing photography on the side, when Whitney met him; his movie-poster-style photo series of first responders, Not All Wear Capes, went viral. He shot, edited and animated the film and composed its score.

They talk about choosing to put their own family on screen, borrowing a vlog style from the YouTube channel Yes Theory to make heavy science easy to watch, and casting friends and family for the reenactments. They explain how a dye-free Facebook group Whitney started grew to about 570,000 members in two years, and how its audience, almost all women aged 24 to 44, showed them exactly who the film was for. They also talk about faith, the strain of a two-person production on a young family, and why test screenings changed the film. Christian, who admits she came in skeptical, tells them, "I think this is an incredibly important film."

WATCH THE FILM

To Dye For: The Documentary is available to rent on Kinema: https://kinema.com/films/to-dye-for-the-documentary-ks9yoj

In this episode, you'll learn:

• How one family's experience with synthetic dyes became a documentary
• How a married couple split the work on a two-person crew
• How a viral photo series turned Brandon into a working photographer
• Why the Cawoods decided to put their own family in the film
• How a vlog style can make a science documentary easy to watch
• How Brandon made the animation and the score himself on a tight budget
• How a Facebook group of about 570,000 members became the film's audience
• How the Cawoods paid for the film with savings, crowdfunding and a grant
• Why test screenings made To Dye For a better film
• How Kinema and Splice help independent filmmakers

CHAPTERS

0:00 When Food Dye Changed Their Child's Life

5:48 Who Does What on a Two-Person Crew

11:17 From Security Guard to Photographer

16:45 Should You Be in Your Own Documentary?

22:36 A Vlog Style Inspired by Yes Theory

27:43 Reenactments, Animation and Music

31:14 Faith and Psalm 107

37:40 Building an Audience Before Release

43:20 Budget, Grants and Test Screenings

50:21 Kinema, Splice and Distribution Plans

55:30 Not So Pretty and Other Picks

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

What is To Dye For: The Documentary about?

To Dye For: The Documentary follows Whitney and Brandon Cawood after they removed synthetic food dyes from their child's diet and saw a dramatic change. The film mixes the family's own story, told in a vlog style, with interviews with dye researchers and with other families, and uses reenactments to bring those families' stories to the screen.

Who made To Dye For?

To Dye For was made by Whitney and Brandon Cawood, a married couple making their first documentary. Whitney set up the interviews, asked the questions and led the marketing. Brandon, a commercial photographer and videographer, shot, edited and animated the film and composed its score, building the music from loops in Splice.

How do you make a documentary with a two-person crew and a small budget?

The Cawoods did nearly every job themselves, including animation, music and casting. They say they put in about $20,000 of their own money, ran two crowdfunding campaigns and received a small local grant. They say the film would have cost about $250,000 on paper if they had paid for all the work they did themselves.

How can a documentary build an audience before it is released?

Whitney Cawood started a Facebook group about living dye-free that grew to about 570,000 members in two years, and offered free resources in exchange for email sign-ups, building a list of about 150,000. The group's data showed the audience was almost all women aged 24 to 44, which shaped how the Cawoods planned to market and screen the film.

DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

Whitney's pick:

• Not So Pretty (2022), a docuseries about the beauty products women use every day: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13142526/

Brandon's picks:

• Backstreet Boys: Show 'Em What You're Made Of (2015): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2712154/
• OUTATIME: Saving the DeLorean Time Machine (2016): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4525694/

Christian's picks:

• Brandy Hellville & the Cult of Fast Fashion (2024): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31189910/
• The Movies That Made Us (2019 to 2021): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10681222/

SPONSORED BY ARTILLERY SPORTS

This episode is brought to you by Artillery Sports, which makes durable sports equipment and uses a portion of its profits to help care for the nation's veterans. Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your first order. https://artillerysports.com

LISTEN AND FOLLOW

Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a7fd3

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

SUPPORT THE SHOW

Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

ABOUT THE GUESTS

Whitney Cawood

Co-director, To Dye For: The Documentary

Whitney Cawood has a degree in education and taught school before leaving teaching to start a family. She has run an e-commerce business with Brandon and worked as a freelance digital marketer.

Brandon Cawood

Co-director, To Dye For: The Documentary

Brandon Cawood is a commercial photographer and videographer who toured in a band in his 20s. His photo series Not All Wear Capes, movie-poster-style portraits of first responders, went viral and launched his photography business.

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Yes Theory on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@YesTheory
• How Two First-Time Filmmakers Built an Audience (Kinema interview with the Cawoods, May 2025): https://kinemahq.substack.com/p/how-two-first-time-filmmakers-built
• Kinema, the virtual screening platform the Cawoods discuss: https://kinema.com
• Splice, the music loop library Brandon used for the score: https://splice.com
• Psalm 107, the psalm Christian reads from