We hold their debt, they hold ours. Yet both countries are openly preparing for all out high intensity war. Flashpoints in the South China Sea. Nationalism here and in China. But as US Foreign Policy historian Lawrence Wittner explains, though there is mutual suspicion, both countries leaders see cooperation as possible. On such things as Covid 19, human rights, and climate change. Each country has human rights transgressions and public opinion in both countries does matter. The challenge is to tamp down nationalism in both countries.