Dogs Beyond the Lab

Getting dogs out is only the beginning. What happens next—and are we giving them what they actually need?

Veterinarian and animal advocate Dr. Crystal Heath joins John Ramer, Lori Cohen, and Chelsey Marino for a candid conversation about the Ridglan beagles, the divisions within animal advocacy, and the responsibility that comes with rescue.

Drawing on her experience examining dogs released from Ridglan, Dr. Heath describes animals so shut down they barely responded to human contact. Chelsey shares what she’s seeing as dogs adjust to life in homes, and together they explore why decompression, predictability, and experienced support matter—even when our instinct is to shower a newly rescued dog with affection.

The conversation also confronts difficult questions about protest tactics, competing accounts of what secured the dogs’ release, and whether a movement can hold its own leaders accountable. Dr. Heath challenges the idea that working with people inside research facilities means compromising your commitment to animals, and shares her vision for more humane veterinary training and the next generation of advocates.

An honest, sometimes uncomfortable discussion about looking beyond the headlines and keeping the dogs’ long-term wellbeing at the heart of the work.

Dr. Heath is on Instagram and worth a follow

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Cherisse Friesen Epp recounts how a planned short-term foster named Odie became a beloved member of her family. Odie arrived in Manitoba in September 2023 profoundly fearful, avoiding people and struggling to settle. Cherisse describes his early challenges, including serious conflicts with resident dog Daisy, and the added strain of supporting her partner, James, as he navigated PTSD after a traumatic vehicle accident. With patience, professional guidance, and veterinary support, Odie gradually made progress.

Cherisse also credits scent-based enrichment with helping Odie emerge from his shell. The conversation explores how dogs and people with trauma can support one another, and how setbacks coexist with meaningful gains. Cherisse encourages prospective adopters and fosters to use rescue organizations’ resources instead of facing difficult behaviors alone. For her, the joy of watching Odie play, explore, and simply be a dog makes the ongoing work worthwhile and rewarding.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

John, Lori and Chelsey are joined by Brandon Wilder, to discuss animal research and the lives of the animals involved.

We ask Brandon the difficult questions: When is animal research justified? Who decides whether an experiment is necessary? And how do we account for an animal’s well-being during research and long after it ends? Brandon shares what drives his work, where he believes research practices need to improve, and why he hopes emerging methods could help reduce the use of animals.

We also talk about the realities of caring for animals after research, the bond Brandon shares with his rescued dog Toki, and what becomes possible when scientists and animal advocates are willing to listen to one another. Join us for a conversation grounded in compassion for both animals and people.

Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Joe Bailey didn't plan on becoming an advocate for former research dogs — he just wanted a beagle. On this episode of Dogs Beyond The Lab, hosts Chelsey Marino (Keeper and Kin), Lori Cohen (The Beagle Alliance), and John Ramer (Kindness Ranch Animal Sanctuary) hear how a two-week notice from the Beagle Freedom Project brought Presley, a six-and-a-half-year-old beagle straight off an Oklahoma breeding farm, into Joe's Los Angeles home. Joe taught him stairs, leashes and how to eat slowly, and learned his triggers — metal on metal, the need to back up against something to relieve himself. Presley was diagnosed with B-cell lymphoma in March 2024 and died that November, after twenty weeks of treatment at Penn Vet and Mount Laurel Animal Hospital. Joe calls him "the boy who brought me home."

Then came Carol — possibly Presley's biological relative, and a year into freedom before adoption. Confident where Presley was timid, vocal where he was silent, she's what Joe calls his redemption arc.

Did you know that there is an instagram page starring Presley?

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

John Ramer, Chelsey Marino, and Lori Cohen talk with Alice and Dima about Kane, a senior lemon beagle rescued from Kindness Ranch Animal Sanctuary.

Alice grew up with beagles and had always wanted to adopt a former research dog, while Dima had never lived with a pet before Kane came along. After meeting through a senior adoption promotion, Kane joined their family — and quickly made it clear that he had a lot to learn. From peeing on the desk during his adoption meeting to experiencing the world like a puppy, Kane's journey into home life has been full of unexpected challenges, breakthroughs, and plenty of laughs.

Alice and Dima share an honest look at adopting a former research beagle, including potty training, anxiety, socialization, trauma recovery, and the small milestones that can mean everything. Over time, Kane's personality began to emerge, revealing a quirky, affectionate dog with his own routines and a growing sense of confidence.

Things We Talked About:

• What to expect when adopting a former research dog
• The challenges of potty training and socializing a senior research beagle
• How to help an anxious rescue beagle adjust to home life
• Understanding trauma and nervous-system recovery in rescued research animals
• The small breakthroughs that mark progress
• Common beagle myths — and what life with Kane has taught Alice and Dima
• Why they’re considering adopting a second former research beagle

If you're researching how to adopt a former research beagle, wondering what to expect when adopting a research dog, or looking for ways to help an anxious rescue beagle settle into home life, Kane's story offers a heartfelt, practical, and often funny look at the journey.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Rob Wadd joins Dogs Beyond the Lab to share the profound journey of Gabe, a former research beagle whose life was transformed by love, patience, and community. Rob recounts how he and his wife Sharon moved from life with Badger—their confident, well-adjusted beagle—to adopting Gabe, a deeply traumatized ex-lab dog terrified of ordinary things like doorways, wind, darkness, and TV. With Badger as a mentor and Sharon as his anchor, Gabe slowly learned safety, routine, and trust, from four-hour backyard sit-ins to finally mastering the dog door and cuddling on the couch—after years of keeping his distance from Rob.

When Badger passed, Kindness Ranch connected them with Kai, the tiger-striped beagle they’d originally hoped to adopt, completing a poignant full-circle story. Rob reflects on what it really takes to adopt a former research dog, when he’d advise someone not to, and how Gabe’s resilience has humbled and changed him, turning him into a thoughtful advocate for both dogs and the humans who care for them.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hosts John Ramer, Lori Cohen, and Chelsey Marino call up their good friend, journalist and author Melanie Kaplan to discuss her book Lab Dog, which chronicles her journey with Hammy, a former research beagle. Kaplan explains how adopting Hammy led her to investigate the vast and largely hidden industry of breeding dogs for laboratory research—a scale that stunned her as she uncovered industrial facilities housing tens of thousands of animals. The conversation moves from Hammy's behavior and the emotional challenges of adopting a lab beagle to the systemic issues within animal research, including inconsistent enforcement of welfare laws and the slow adoption of non-animal testing methods.

They discuss:

- The industrial scale of beagle breeding facilities and how three major operations dwindled to one during Kaplan's reporting

- Balancing the heartbreak of animal research with readability and emotional engagement in the book

- Why legislation and enforcement are the most effective pathways to change in the research industry

- How non-animal methods are advancing rapidly but face barriers to widespread adoption

- The personal experience of losing Hammy and continuing to share his story through book tours and public speaking

This episode explores the intersection of personal grief, investigative journalism, and advocacy—offering insight for anyone seeking to understand the realities of animal research and the dogs who emerge from it.

Links to Melanie:

LinkedIn

Melanie's Website

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Luke Toennies tells the story of adopting Snoop, a former research beagle. Luke initially reached out to the Beagle Alliance after losing his dog Leo.

After a six-month to a year wait, he adopted Snoop, who was initially traumatized but quickly bonded with Luke. Snoop's unique bark and playful nature, despite his past, have made him a social media star. Luke emphasizes the importance of patience and training, noting Snoop's progress and his role as an advocate for former research dogs. The conversation highlights the collaborative efforts of organizations like the Beagle Alliance, Kindness Ranch, and Keeper and Kin in supporting former research dogs and their adopters.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

David and Ginny share their adoption and rehabilitation of Celie, a severely fearful former research beagle from Kindness Ranch. They describe choosing Celie, her initial terror at the ranch and home, and the slow work to build trust through routine, “place” training, and positive games like “boop” and ball play. Bowman, their calm older beagle, served as a critical mentor, helping Celie gain confidence.

They spoke of a traumatizing week when Celie escaped; the community’s search efforts and the emotional toll on the family, and Celie’s eventual safe recovery. Over three years, small victories—first down stretches, requesting interaction, tolerating handling, reliable potty routines—became milestones. Hosts and guests discuss practical advice for prospective adopters: patience, celebrating incremental progress, and preparing for setbacks during transitions. John explains Kindness Ranch’s broader role and industry trends shifting from dogs to pigs in research. We talked community support, compassionate consumer choices, and advocacy, highlighting how rescuing a single traumatized dog can transform both canine and human lives.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week's episode features photographer/activist Robert Sturman, and of course, his good pal Otis - a former research hound. Robert shares how early exposure to the realities of animal testing shaped his compassion, eventually leading him to adopt Otis after seeing him through Beagle Freedom Project. While Otis is still triggered by loud noises like trains and fireworks, Rob explains all the ways he and Otis help each other every day.

We explore parallels between Robert’s long-standing work documenting human suffering (including yoga programs in prisons and the military) and his emerging activism for animals. As a living face of animal testing, Otis and Robert work together to raise awareness about cruelty-free products, and the need to shut down breeding facilities such as Marshall Bio Resources. The conversation closes with reflections on empathy, forgiveness, each person’s “link in the chain,” and the transformative lessons these dogs offer humans.

The hosts of the show are:

John Ramer is the Executive Director of Kindness Ranch

Lori Cohen is the Founder and Executive Director of The Beagle Alliance

Chelsey Marino is the founder of Keeper and Kin. The Leading Experts in Former Research Beagle Rehabilitation

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.