My guest this week is Dr. Anthony Pinn. Dr. Pinn is the Agnes Cullen Arnold Professor of Humanities, the Professor of Religious Studies. the Founding Director of the Center for Engaged Research and Collaborative Learning Rice University, and the Director of Research of the Institute for Humanist Studies. Dr. Pinn has written a number of books on the intersection of humanism and race. In this episode, we discuss his book, When Colorblindness Isn’t the Answer. I learned quite a lot from Dr. Pinn. Both about humanism and the experience of black humanists. Ultimately I was challenged to change my behavior, to “do my homework,” and to understand that it will take dismantling of white supremacy in humanist communities in order to gain the great benefits that diversity brings. "We can do better." This sort of fundamental change this movement towards diversity and equity means giving up comfort. You cannot request comfort and say you are interested in change Throughout his book(s) and in the interview Dr. Pinn calls on our humanist values to be less ignorant, to include black and other historically disparaged voices, and to develop our own vocabulary and ways of experiencing awe without calling on theistic traditions. Links Website https://www.anthonypinn.com/ Twitter https://twitter.com/anthony_pinn Books https://www.anthonypinn.com/books When Colorblindness Isn’t The Answer https://www.amazon.com/When-Colorblindness-Isnt-Answer-Challenge-ebook/dp/B06XXM1MWR/ Interact Critique of Apologetics https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/critique-of-apologetics/Deconversion https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/deconversion/Secular Grace https://gracefulatheist.wordpress.com/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Makaih_Beats  Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/