What if addiction isn’t the problem — but the solution to deep emotional pain? In this powerful conversation, renowned physician and trauma expert Dr Gabor Maté joins Dr Brian Pennie to explore the true roots of addiction, healing, and human connection. When Brian shares his lived experience with heroin addiction, Gabor challenges conventional thinking. He explains why addiction is not a disease or personal failure, but an attempt to meet unmet needs like safety, warmth, love, and belonging. Gabor also shares why recovery is less about fixing what’s “broken” and more about reclaiming your authentic self—the part of you that was never truly lost. He also outlines the essential role of compassion in healing, describing four active levels of compassion that can transform how we support loved ones struggling with addiction.

Together, they unpack:

• The difference between being recovered and in recovery
• How childhood trauma is created by being alone with pain
• Why compassion — not force or control — is the key to healing
• How loved ones can help without enabling or co-dependency
• The four levels of compassion that allow real change to happen
• Recovery means reclaiming your true self
• Trying to force change creates resistance

If you’re interested in trauma, mental health, personal growth, or supporting someone through addiction, this short but profound interview will reshape how you understand healing—and what real change actually looks like.

Connect with Brian

⬛ Get FREE access to Brian’s online courses

⬛ Buy Brian’s memoir, Bonus Time

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Sponsors: ⁠The Kyne Foundation

Imagine having a sponsor whose only interest is creating positive ripple effects of change around the world. I first met Jacqueline and David Kyne from the Kyne Foundation when they introduced me to Dr Gabor Mate in 2024, an incredible “pinch myself” moment in my own life. With a focus on nurturing youth wellbeing and empowering education, The Kyne Foundation's belief is simple: kindness is powerful, practical, and worth paying forward. Over the next few episodes, we’ll be sharing weekly challenges inspired by their work and ethos: small actions create big ripples. Our simple ask? Be kind to yourself, to others, and to your community. Because kindness is contagious.

Chapters (Timestamps)

00:00 – Recovered vs “In Recovery.” What does it actually mean to recover — and were you ever truly lost?

01:25 – “You Were Never Broken.” Why your true self was never damaged, only obscured

02:30 – What Heroin Really Gave Me. Warmth, safety, peace — and why that matters

03:45 – Addiction Is a Solution, Not the Problem. Gabor Maté reframes addiction completely

05:10 – Childhood Trauma & Being Alone With Fear. Why trauma isn’t what happened — it’s facing it alone

06:40 – Family Trauma & Addiction Across Generations. Why singling out the “addict” misses the real issue

07:50 – The Inner Shift That Changes Everything. Awakening, acceptance, and finding peace inside

09:10 – Can You Help Someone With Addiction? Why you can’t force change — and what actually helps

10:10 – The Four Levels of Compassion. From caring to seeing the person beyond their behaviour

11:30 – The Three Choices Loved Ones Have. Two sane options — and one that creates resistance

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