Luke Litle talks with Dr. Ursula Wilder about the importance of understanding the psychology of foreign leaders and of ourselves, the psychology of historical figures, and the psychology of deterrence. Dr. Wilder takes us down her career path and offers invaluable advice to students and young professionals in the national security space. We explore the frontiers of the study of psychology as applied to intelligence work, such as the fields of cyber psychology and artificial intelligence. Dr. Wilder is a clinical psychologist at the Central Intelligence Agency, where she has served for 27 years. She’s done operational work with the CIA’s counter-terrorism center, analyzed the psychology of extremists in the DNI’s counter-terrorism center, and has spent considerable time assessing the psychology of world leaders for CIA.