Dreams with Deadlines

In this episode of Dreams With Deadlines, host Jenny Herald dives into the dynamic world of marketing with Renata Lerch. 

Renata shares her career journey, highlighting the evolution of marketing's role beyond departmental boundaries and the integration of operational strategies in creating a seamless brand experience. From her extensive global experience to her deep dive into different methodologies, Renata explores how these frameworks have shaped her approach to marketing.

Key Things Discussed:

• The integration of operational strategies in marketing, aligning it with broader organizational goals.
• The power of blending frameworks to foster adaptation and team buy-in.
• Practical insights into applying methodologies in marketing for improved collaboration, prioritization, and iterative success.

Show Notes

• [00:00:38] The Evolution of Marketing and Agile Methods. Renata discusses her career journey, integrating operations into marketing for a cohesive brand experience. She mentions Lean, Six Sigma, Scrum, and Agile methodologies' impact, emphasizing the need for framework-agnostic approaches with systems and design thinking.
• [00:04:21] Applying Scrum in a Marketing Environment: Team Composition and Roles. The discussion highlights roles in Scrum translated to marketing teams. The product owner's role as a liaison is crucial, and the scrum master role's absence in small marketing teams is discussed.
• [00:09:03] Applying Empiricism and Lean Thinking in Marketing: Mindset and Frameworks. Renata stresses mindset shifts, invoking consumer perspectives, fostering collaboration, and using frameworks for decision-making and campaign building. Transparency, data democratization, and benefit mapping are highlighted.
• [00:14:14] Scrum Ceremonies in Marketing: Sprint Planning and Retrospectives. The importance of sprint planning, flexible sprint duration, and the significance of retrospectives in recognizing wins and enhancing team dynamics is discussed.
• [00:18:50] Sprint Reviews and Retrospectives: Combining or Delineating? Renata talks about the choice between separate or combined sprint reviews and retrospectives, based on agile marketing leaders' preferences and organization size.
• [00:20:02] Aligning Backlog, Product Goals, and Sprint Goals in Marketing. Prioritization, deadlines, and the interconnectedness of marketing with other departments shape the marketing backlog. The synchronization of marketing goals with company deliverables is highlighted.
• [00:28:16] Balancing Iteration and Quality: Definition of Done in Marketing. Renata talks about the challenge of balancing iteration and quality in marketing's definition of done, emphasizing compliance with brand standards, quality, and voice and tone.
• [00:30:17] Blending Frameworks and Fostering Adaptation in Agile Marketing. Renata discusses blending Scrum and Kanban, adapting to the team's comfort level, and gaining buy-in through iterative, open-minded, and data-driven approaches.
• [00:33:49] Embracing Scrumban for Visualizing Work and Managing Overload. Renata shares her Scrumban implementation experience, emphasizing the value of visualizing work and understanding team culture.
• [00:36:09] Overcoming Misconceptions and Embracing Flexibility in Scrumban. The challenge of people confusing Scrum's prescription with Scrumban's flexibility is discussed, focusing on understanding best practices that work for the team.
• [00:44:43] Quick-Fire Questions for Renata:
  • Dream with a deadline: Renata's dream is to have a team that is highly focused and synchronized, both within the marketing team and across the organization, understanding priorities and interdependencies, and being aware of the company's direction.
  • Advice for embarking on an agile transformation journey in marketing: Start small and iterate. Begin with one team or implement tools like Jira or Trello to initiate the agile process, and then gradually expand and refine the approach.
  • Biggest fail in working with agile methods: Renata shared an experience where the CEO of an organization disrupted agile processes, causing confusion and undermining progress. The key learning was that while bottom-up initiatives can work, without top-level support, it becomes challenging to sustain agile practices effectively.
  • Books that shaped Renata's thinking: Renata highlighted the significance of the book "Systems Thinking" as a paradigm-shifting resource. She also mentioned that books on meditation offer valuable perspectives on agile methodologies. Specifically, she found Donella Meadows' book to be incredible.

Relevant links:

• Jeff Sutherland, Inventor and Co-Creator of Scrum
• Donella Meadows, lead author of the books The Limits to Growth and Thinking In Systems: A Primer
• Thinking in Systems, by Donella Meadows

About the Guest:
Renata Lerch is a visionary leader and Agile marketing expert with a passion for exploring the possibilities of Design Thinking and Artificial Intelligence Applications in Marketing. Renata is a published author, renowned speaker, and trilingual executive, skilled in motivating teams and transforming marketing strategies.

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In this episode of Dreams With Deadlines, host Jenny Herald interviews strategy execution expert Brett Knowles to explore the intersection of technology, strategy, and execution. Throughout the conversation, Brett shares insights and practical advice on leveraging AI and large language models like ChatGPT to enhance strategy execution.

Key Things Discussed:

• The limitations of traditional approaches and the need for agility in strategy execution.
• The role of AI in creating an execution ripple and assessing departmental capabilities.
• Building a lightweight nexus and keeping OKR systems simple for effectiveness.
• The evolving role of senior leadership and the importance of asking the right questions.

Show Notes

• [00:00:18] Understanding the Distinction: AI and GPT Explained. Jenny and Brett explore the difference between AI and GPT, highlighting GPT's capacity to learn and respond to conditions.
• [00:02:21] Harnessing GPT's Potential in Strategy Development and Execution: Jenny and Brett discuss the benefits of incorporating GPT into strategy development, testing its recommendations, and achieving a balance between familiar and innovative ideas.
• [00:06:37] Unlocking the Versatility of GPT in Business Applications: Jenny and Brett explore the various business applications of GPT, including automation, decision-making, recommendation generation, option generation, and strategy evaluation.
• [00:11:54] Accelerating Strategy Development and Execution with AI: Jenny and Brett highlight how GPT can simplify and enhance the strategy development process, providing examples of idea generation, insights gathering, and automated slide deck creation.
• [00:17:11] Navigating Limitations and Challenges of GPT in Strategy Development: Jenny and Brett discuss the misconceptions, data input importance, and recognizing GPT's potential to surpass human decision-making quality.
• [00:23:35] Calibrating Parameters for Enhanced Strategy Execution with GPT: Jenny and Brett explore the significance of parameter calibration in optimizing GPT's performance and overcoming status quo bias.
• [00:30:40] The Execution Ripple and Building the Nexus for Strategy Execution: Brett delves deeper into the concept of the execution ripple, mapping connections, and enhancing GPT's insights and recommendations.
• [00:35:12] The Execution Donut and Building a Consistent Model: Jenny and Brett explore the interconnectedness of elements in the execution donut and the importance of a reliable and repeatable decision-making model.
• [00:38:38] The Evolving Role of Senior Leadership in Strategy Execution: Jenny and Brett discuss the agility needed in strategy execution, asking better questions, and embracing AI-powered strategies for a competitive edge.
• [00:44:43] Quick-Fire Questions for Brett:
  • What’s your Dream With a Deadline: Brett's dream is to share his knowledge with as many people as possible on an ongoing basis. He is passionate about making information available to the community, but there is no specific deadline for this dream.
  • Using Large Language Models (ChatGPT) for OKRs: Brett emphasizes the importance of ownership when considering the use of these technologies for OKRs. If using the tools adds complexity or creates barriers to acceptance, it may not be recommended. However, he believes that organizations will eventually need to move in this direction to succeed with OKRs.
  • Advice for Starting with OKRs: The key advice is to keep it simple. Many OKR systems fail because they become too complex, with too many objectives and key results. It is important to ensure that every individual benefits from using OKRs and that it is not just a reporting system for the leadership team.
  • Excitement about Advancements in Technology for Strategy Execution: Brett is excited about how these advancements allow us to challenge outdated paradigms in strategy development and execution. He believes that traditional approaches, rooted in decades-old knowledge, need to be replaced or reimagined. The new possibilities open up avenues for innovative solutions.
  • Book(s) that Shaped Thinking: Brett recommends anything written by Edward de Bono, who focused on helping the brain become more creative. De Bono's frameworks provide ways to enhance creativity without relying on external substances. Brett also highlights that while there are many business books available nowadays, they often present methodologies as isolated silos. Recognizing the interconnectedness of concepts and joining existing ideas is crucial for creating value.

Relevant links:

• “Can Machines Think?” Alan Turing's decades-old question
• The Turing Test
• Kasparov vs. Deep Blue 
• The Rumsfeld Papers: Known and Unknown
• The Rumsfeld Matrix
• Peter Drucker, the Father of Management Thinking
• Dr. Edward de Bono, the originator of the term Lateral Thinking

About the Guest:
Brett Knowles is the Founder at Performance Measurement & Management. He is a renowned thought leader with a track record of spearheading strategic execution and driving remarkable performance improvement through rapid OKR implementation. Featured in Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Fortune for his expertise in the Balanced Scorecard.

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Join host Jenny Herald and special guest Andrea Belk Olson in this newest episode of Dreams With Deadlines as they dive into the world of OKRs and the challenges organizations face in driving change and building buy-in. 

From understanding varied nomenclature to crafting achievable aspirations, they explore the importance of aligning organizational goals with the current state and involving people in the change process.

Key Things Discussed:

• The concept of customer-centricity
• The Three Ws ideation process for empathetic thinking
• Integrating change in traditional manufacturing
• The six key components of building change buy-in, and finding the balance between committed and aspirational goals with OKRs.

Show Notes

• [00:00:26] Introduction to OKRs and Varied Nomenclature: Andrea Belk Olson discusses her experience with OKRs and the diverse terminology used to describe them.
• [00:01:17] Starting with a Current State Assessment for Differentiation: Jenny and Andrea discuss the importance of conducting a current state assessment to help companies identify their core strengths, revenue streams, talent, and assets.
• [00:02:27] Crafting Achievable Aspirations and the Role of People in Change: Jenny and Andrea explore the importance of setting realistic and achievable aspirational goals for organizations, using the example of a client wanting to become the "Tesla of the industry." 
  • They discuss the need to align aspirations with the organization's current state, identifying unique differentiators, and finding a target market that values those differentiators.
  • Additionally, they emphasize the critical role of people in driving change, highlighting the importance of buy-in, individual growth opportunities, and addressing employees' concerns about skill sets, timeline, and personal advantages.
• [00:13:38] Achieving Customer Centricity and Shifting Organizational Mindset: Andrea shares a client example where they successfully addressed the challenges of aligning aspirations with their current state, focusing on customer-centricity and mindset shifts for growth
• [00:17:32] Three Ws Ideation Process for Customer-Centric Thinking: Andrea introduces the Three Ws Ideation Process from her book "What to Ask" as a framework for organizations to think more empathetically and better understand customer needs. The process involves examining the "why" by considering the customer's context, determining the "what" based on that context, and formulating a hypothesis for the "wow" solution.
• [00:19:40] Applying the Three Ws and Piloting for Customer-Centric Solutions: Jenny and Andrea discuss how to apply the Three Ws process to improve community events and increase participation.
• [00:22:21] Integrating Change and Efficiency in Traditional Manufacturing: Overcoming resistance to change in manufacturing organizations through Kaizen and manageable changes.
• [00:27:53] The Six Key Components of Building Change Buy-In: Legitimacy, ownership, attainability, authenticity, impartiality, and relevance as essential components for buy-in.
• [00:34:12] Balancing Committed and Aspirational Goals with OKRs: Jenny and Andrea discuss the balance between committed goals and aspirational goals when using OKRs.
  • They emphasize the importance of relevance, acknowledging the day-to-day operational needs alongside the aspirational goals.
  • They highlight the need to tie objectives to known challenges and issues, involve employees in shaping the objectives, and ensure that everyone can influence the outcomes.
  • They also discuss the significance of breaking down the goals into manageable steps and painting a picture of the results to generate buy-in and momentum.
  • The approach of microdosing the OKRs is recommended to create quick wins and maintain momentum throughout the journey.
  • The focus is on measuring progress, identifying priorities, and fostering meaningful forward momentum towards the larger aspirational goal.
• [00:41:03] Recognizing and Rewarding Successes in Organizational Culture: Jenny and Andrea discuss the importance of examining organizational culture and reinforcing behaviors that celebrate successes.
• [00:45:54] Quick-Fire Questions for Andrea:
  • What’s your Dream With a Deadline: Andrea's dream with a deadline is to write her fourth book within her lifetime.
  • What is Andrea’s prevailing insight of the moment? Organizations can be hypersensitive to change, perceiving it as a personal attack on their capabilities.
  • What is emerging from this discussion is the idea of what? What is emerging is the idea of a confident organization that acknowledges flaws but believes in their ability to improve.
• Where do you think the future is headed in terms of the OKR space? The future of OKRs lies in overcoming terminology hurdles and creating environments where employees can achieve success and meet customer needs.

Relevant links:

• “What To Ask: How to Learn What Customers Need But Don't Tell You,” by Andrea Belk Olson
• “Getting Employee Buy-In for Organizational Change,” by Andrea Belk Olson

About Our Guest:
Andrea Belk Olson is a behavioral scientist and customer-centricity expert. She is the Founder & CEO of Pragmadik, helping companies differentiate and build customer-centric cultures. Andrea is a renowned speaker, published author and a TEDx presenter. She is also a contributing writer for HBR, Entrepreneur, Rotman, Chief Executive, and more.

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Host Jenny Herald dives deep into the journey of Ben Lamorte, the renowned OKRs expert and founder of okrs.com, in this captivating episode of Dreams With Deadlines. 

Discover Ben's transformation from a network engineer to an OKR visionary as he shares his profound insights on deploying successful OKRs, overcoming challenges, and his bold coaching framework.

Key Things Discussed:

• Unveiling the 10 universal deployment parameters for successful OKRs implementation.
• Exploring the distinction between milestone and metric key results and when to use each.
• Understanding the roles of OKRs project leads and the importance of executive sponsorship.
• Unpacking the real-world examples where OKRs drive outcomes over outputs.
• Gaining valuable perspectives on the application of OKRs in cross-functional and rapid growth areas.

Show Notes

• [00:00:19] Introduction and Ben Lamorte's Enthusiasm for OKRs
• [00:00:48] OKRs as a Critical Thinking Framework: Ben describes OKRs as a critical thinking framework, emphasizing the importance of ongoing discipline and asking three key questions:
  • Where do we want to focus for near-term progress?
  • How do we know we've achieved the objective?
  • What is the intended outcome of the task? These questions help define objectives and key results, align efforts, and prioritize measurable impact.
• [00:04:38] The Importance of Embedding Alignment in OKRs: Ben discusses the trend of embedding alignment throughout the entire OKRs program, emphasizing its importance as a critical success factor. He highlights the shift away from cascading OKRs directly and notes that more organizations are now implementing OKRs correctly from the start, leading to positive developments in the OKRs landscape.
• [00:08:37] Mantras for Successful OKRs Implementation: Ben shares five key mantras for successful OKRs implementation:
  • "less is more" to focus on a small set of OKRs,
  • "crawl, walk, run" to scale gradually after achieving success,
  • "OKRs are not everything" as they represent the most important areas for progress,
  • "the only way to learn OKRs is to do OKRs" by practical implementation,
  • and "outcomes, not output" to measure intended results.
  • The discussion also hints at the emerging trend of embedding alignment into every aspect of the OKRs program.
• [00:13:05] Embedding Alignment in OKRs for Organizational Cohesion: Ben highlights the importance of alignment in OKRs, emphasizing the need for clear answers to key questions and achieving both top-down and horizontal alignment. He explains that alignment should be established at each stage of the OKRs program to ensure organizational cohesion and addresses the ongoing nature of aligning throughout the OKRs journey.
• [00:17:00] The Importance of Universal Deployment Parameters in OKRs: Ben highlights the importance of universal deployment parameters as foundational prerequisites for successful OKRs implementation. These parameters, including setting the OKR level and defining the OKR cycle duration, play a crucial role in ensuring effective OKRs training and implementation.
• [00:22:55] 10 Universal Deployment Parameters for Effective OKRs Implementation: Ben identifies 10 essential parameters to define before implementing OKRs. These parameters are crucial for successful OKR implementation and training workshops.
  • These parameters include levels, number of OKRs, scoring methods, cycle duration, milestone vs metric key results, OKR publishing and storage, performance review integration, KPI vs key result differentiation, alignment, and bottom-up involvement.
• [00:28:53] Roles in Defining Deployment Parameters: Defining the 10 universal deployment parameters for OKRs involves OKRs project leads from various functional teams and the executive sponsor, allowing for training based on these parameters and the flexibility to make adjustments in subsequent cycles.
• [00:31:32] The Distinction and Appropriate Use of Milestone Key Results: Milestone key results represent significant achievements or outcomes that indicate progress towards a future metric key result, such as obtaining permits to begin construction or listing an app on the Apple Store, and can be valuable in certain situations to track progress and set the stage for future success.
• [00:36:56] Distinguishing Between Output and Outcome Key Results: Jenny and Ben discuss the distinction between output and outcome key results, emphasizing the importance of outcome-oriented milestones that represent true outcomes and setting higher requirements for target and stretch key results. The challenge of committing to government approval is also highlighted.
• [00:39:45] Quick-Fire Questions for Ben:
  • Where does Ben want to see OKRs.com by the end of the year? Ben wants to have a clearer definition of the impact of OKRs through an OKRs maturity model and quantifiable data on the success of OKRs.
  • Where are OKRs most important within organizations? OKRs are particularly valuable in cross-functional initiatives and rapid growth areas like the environmental movement.
  • Where does Ben think OKRs are headed? Ben believes that OKRs will continue to grow, and their application will expand beyond formalized goal-setting, becoming more of a mindset and a way of asking outcome-focused questions across the organization.

Relevant links:

• Measure What Matters," by John Doerr.
• "The OKRs Field Book: A Step-by-Step Guide for Objectives and Key Results Coaches," by Ben Lamorte.

About Our Guest:

Ben Lamorte, founder of OKRs.com, is an internationally recognized OKRs coach. He has consulted with organizations around the world, including eBay, Zalando, and Booking.com. He's authored two books — Objectives and Key Results: Driving Focus, Alignment, and Engagement with OKRs (co-authored with Paul Niven) and The OKRs Field Book.

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In this special episode of "Dreams with Deadlines," host Jenny Herald engages in a thought-provoking conversation with AI expert Gary Bhattacharjee. They explore the rise of generative AI and the evolving relationship between humans and machines. 

Key Things Discussed:

• The potential applications of generative AI.
• The challenges of machine ambiguity and ethics.
• The significance of educators in the wisdom economy.
• The importance of trust in building strong alliances between humans and machines.

Show Notes

• [00:00:51] The Significance of Touchless Business in Today's World. Embrace the significance of touchless business in today's world, where Gary explores the accelerated need for digitization and virtual interactions, highlighting the challenges faced by organizations that haven't embraced these changes.
• [00:02:24] The Tremendous Growth Potential of the Data and AI Market. Dive into the tremendous growth potential of the data and AI market, as Gary shares staggering growth projections and emphasizes the interconnectedness between data, AI, and the cloud market.
• [00:03:33] From Automation to Alliance: The Evolution of AI in Decision-Making. Discover the fascinating evolution of AI in decision-making, as Gary delves into the concept of autonomy, the potential for human-machine alliances, and the psychological dynamics involved in trusting machines.
• [00:19:29] The Power of Generative AI and Amplifying Innovation. Generative AI and Amplifying Innovation with Gary Bhattacharjee: Unleash the power of generative AI as Gary explores ChatGPT, the democratization of AI, and the transformative potential of amplifying innovation through collaboration between the creative and technical realms.
• [00:29:12] Tricky Aspects and Pitfalls of Generative AI. In this part of the podcast episode, the conversation shifts towards discussing thNavigate the challenges and pitfalls of generative AI, as Gary discusses machine ambiguity, customization, ethical considerations, and the importance of responsible AI deployment.
• [00:37:09] The Wisdom Economy and the Importance of Educators. Embrace the rise of the wisdom economy and recognize the pivotal role of educators in shaping a responsible AI-driven future, where Gary emphasizes the need to teach machines foundational knowledge and align them with human values.
• [00:41:31] Quick-Fire Questions for Gary:
  • Dream with a Deadline: Gary's dream with a deadline is to have machines and technology that can perform his job tasks. He envisions a world where machine partner with humans in equal footing and not be just an order-taker. He believes that machines should amplify human potential, accelerate the speed of thought and challenge the civilization to be better
  • enabling a Jetsons-like lifestyle where machines take care of daily activities, such as cooking and transportation.
  • Excitement about Bleeding-Edge Technology: Gary is most excited about the scale and acceleration of innovation that generative AI and machine-to-machine conversations bring. He also mentions the hardware advancements in GPUs and quantum computing, which have the potential to revolutionize neural networks and solve complex problems in real-time.
  • Most Exciting AI Application: Gary mentions that he comes across exciting AI applications daily. He highlights the potential of AI twins, where every job could be replaced by an AI counterpart. This thought experiment challenges professionals to envision how their own roles could be performed by AI.
  • Recommended Reads: Gary suggests exploring science fiction novels for imaginative narratives that can inspire real-world applications. Additionally, he recommends books on organizational psychology and ambidexterity to understand the dynamics of human-machine interaction. He mentions "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "Innovator's Dilemma," and "Catch-22" as some of his current readings.
  • Shaping Thought: Gary mentions that there is no single book that has shaped his thinking. Instead, he believes that different books have influenced him at different stages of life. He emphasizes the profoundness of philosophical ideas found in various works and their applicability to different contexts.

Relevant links:

• Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
• Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen
• Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
• Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics + the Zeroth Law by Isaac Asimov

About the Guest:
Gary Bhattacharjee is the head of AI at Infosys, with extensive experience in product development, corporate banking, financial consulting, and wealth management. He co-founded a fintech startup and holds a patent on Management of Data via Cooperative Method and System, a wiki-based data management system.

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In this episode of Dreams With Deadlines, host Jenny Herald sits down with Natalija Hellesoe, an Organizational development Coach and OKR expert. Natalija shares her insights and experiences in implementing OKRs, emphasizing the importance of leadership engagement, setting realistic commitments, and making time a priority. 

Key Things Discussed:

• The concept of "eat the frog" days and how they can help teams overcome time constraints. 
• The need for education, continuous improvement, and conscious implementations when adopting OKRs. 
• She offers guidance on developing a well-designed OKR system that aligns with the organization's goals and addresses the complexity of the business ecosystem. 
• The importance of avoiding mainstream implementations and fostering a community that promotes diversity of thought and continuous learning.

Show Notes

• [00:00:37] Motivations and Challenges in Implementing OKRs for Business Success: Jenny Herald and Natalija Hellesoe discuss the common motivations and challenges faced by businesses when implementing OKRs.
• [00:01:37] Exploring the Pros and Cons of Implementing OKRs for Organizational Success: Jenny and Natalija discuss both the advantages and disadvantages of using OKRs as a methodology for goal-setting and organizational alignment.
• [00:04:13] Navigating Realism in Company Goal Setting for Effective OKRs: Natalija emphasizes the importance of strategic focus and considering other requirements and stakeholders when setting realistic OKRs.
• [00:06:51] Navigating Difficult Conversations for Successful OKR Implementation: Natalija discusses the need for difficult conversations in setting priorities and making commitments for successful OKR implementation.
• [00:07:47] The Importance of Realistic Assessments for Successful OKR Implementation: Natalija highlights the significance of conducting realistic assessments before implementing OKRs.
• [00:09:44] Balancing Customer Expectations and Delivering Effective Methodologies: Natalija emphasizes understanding customers' actual needs and meeting expectations while providing what they truly need.
• [00:10:41] Navigating the Role of Senior Leadership in Successful OKR Implementation: Natalija discusses the challenges and importance of senior leadership involvement in OKR implementation.
• [00:13:30] The Crucial Role of Senior Leaders in OKR Implementation and Success: Natalija emphasizes the importance of senior leadership's commitment and understanding of OKRs for successful adoption.
• [00:16:14] Making Time Commitment the First OKR: Natalija explores the concept of making time commitment the first OKR and provides examples of addressing time-related issues.
• [00:21:20] Fostering Engagement: Natalija discusses the benefits of "eat the frog" days and the challenge of engagement when introducing new initiatives.
• [00:23:25] Bridging the Gap: Strategies for Engaging Skeptics and Fostering OKR Adoption. Natalija discusses strategies for bridging the gap between OKR believers and skeptics.
• [00:27:29] Striking the Right Balance: Implementation for Successful OKR Adoption. Natalija emphasizes the importance of finding the right balance in OKR adoption and avoiding micromanagement.
• [00:29:46] Guidelines for Developing a Well-Designed OKR System. Natalija highlights the importance of understanding the problem, prioritizing focus, and educating oneself about different variations.
• [00:33:52] The Future of OKRs: Moving Towards Conscious Implementations. Jenny and Natalija discuss the future of OKRs. Natalija urges conscious implementations of OKRs and avoiding the mainstream trap.
• [00:35:25] Enhancing the OKR Method: Embracing Complexity and Engaging in Conversation. Natalija emphasizes embracing complexity and engaging in conversations to improve the OKR method.
• [00:37:47] Quick-Fire Questions for Natalija:
  • What’s your Dream With a Deadline: Natalija's dream is to go on an expedition through Greenland before turning 40.
  • What drew Natalija to the OKR method: Natalija's interest in connections and seeing the bigger picture naturally drew her to frameworks and methods that help people understand how things belong together, and OKRs fulfill these aspects for her.
  • Advice for those starting out with OKRs: Natalija advises not to believe everything written about OKRs, but instead to keep digging and talking to people to enrich their understanding and benefit from diverse opinions and perspectives.
  • Where Natalija hopes to be this time next year: Natalija hopes to be in a remote location, reflecting on the past 12 months of working with great customers and finding more organizations that have embraced change in how they work together, driven by enthusiasm to make a difference.
  • Book that shaped Natalija's thinking: The book "Speaking and Being" by Kübra Gümüşay, which explores how language shapes our thinking and determines our politics, shaped Natalija's thinking and emphasized the importance of language, also relevant in the context of OKRs.

Relevant links:

• “Speaking and Being” by Kübra Gümüsay
• “Measure What Matters: How Google, Bono, and the Gates Foundation Rock the World with OKRs” by John Doerr
• “OKRs AT THE CENTER,” by Natalija Hellesoe and Sonja Mewes

About Our Guest:
Natalija Hellesoe is a trainer, coach, and chance taker, supporting companies in increasing focus, autonomy, and value creation. She works with organizations at various stages of their OKR journey. Her diverse experiences and global perspective drive her to redefine possibilities.

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If you want to know what kind of team culture really exists at a company, look very carefully at how product roadmaps are developed and executed. That, says Jenny Herald’s guest on this episode of Dreams With Deadlines, is where you can see the “messy, bloody war” that may or may not be going on behind the scenes.

Agile consultant Maarten Dalmijn, author of a forthcoming book about using sprint goals to deliver better products more efficiently, shares fascinating insights on project management and how to optimize it.

Key things discussed

• Why agile software development isn’t about delivering more stuff more quickly.
• How three common gaps in understanding, effort and results hobble projects.
• What the Cynefin Framework is and how to leverage its domains in managing complexity – along with chaos.
• Why less up-front planning and more adjustment along the way enables nimble project management and a quicker path to desired outcomes.
• Ways to identify and mediate opposing goals that can mire projects in constraint and micromanagement.
• The interplay between product goals, Scrums and OKRs.

Show Notes

• [00:03:27] Diving into the “why” behind Maarten’s decision to write his soon-to-be-published book – or any book – at this point in time.
• [00:04:30] What Scrum can look like (flexible and supportive of change) versus what people think it should be.
• [00:06:48] Why being agile is about more than just shipping more stuff faster. About Maarten’s effort to define what makes a successful Scrum, the outputs that drive desired business and customer outcomes and obstacles commonly encountered.
• [00:08:57] "Driving Value with Sprint Goals: Humble Plans, Exceptional Results," which is forthcoming in May, is comprised of four parts.
• [00:09:32] Maarten shares in the book a personal story about a childhood exercise on a Dutch island that parallels the journey of discovery that is software development.
• [00:13:26] A closer look at the three gaps, a model originated by leadership strategist Stephen Bungay, including:
  • The Knowledge Gap: What we know is less than we’d like to know.
  • The Alignment Gap: What we’re likely to do versus what we actually do.
  • The Effects Gap: The difference between desired results and actual outcomes.
• [00:15:51] How to avoid getting lost in “the fog of beforehand,” which can result in overcompensation and analysis paralysis that constrains or slow decision-making.
• [00:18:28] Humble Planning: It’s not about planning less. It’s about reducing upfront planning in order to leave room for critical adjustments later in the project life cycle.
• [00:20:17] About Dave Snowden’s Cynefin Framework, designed to help manage complexity (and chaos) in times of crisis – a sort of field guide for decision-makers.
• [00:21:19] Delineating the domains encompassed by the Cynefin model and how they apply in a software development context:
  • Confusion
  • Clear
  • Complicated
  • Complex
  • Chaotic
• [00:23:40] Understanding self-imposed friction and how rigid plans can lead to massive breakdowns in desired business outcomes.
• [00:27:16] How opposing goals fracture teams and slow – if not defeat – mutually desirable results while team alignment (internally and with partners) supports success.
• [00:30:21] Navigating “Roadmap Hell” and how a traditional project management mindset yield binary, inflexible processes that create conflict and self-defeat.
• [00:32:45] Want to see how agile a company culture really is? Look at their mindset around road mapping – that’s where business and IT really come together and reveal the turf wars and rigidity!
• [00:34:06] Teasing out Part II – the “beating heart” – of Maarten’s book: Sprint Goals:
  • They depend on a clear understanding of intent, what the team is trying to achieve and why it matters.
  • It’s key to integrate foundational sprint goals into every Scrum.
  • OKRs have a role to play in helping to prevent or break the feature factory loop.
• [00:36:32] Understanding the interplay between product goals, Scrums and OKRs; how they fit together in multi-faceted ways with multiple protocols.
• [00:38:42] About applying North Star Metrics – when and how they work and the constellation of factors that can influence measures and strategic adjustments.
• [00:41:42] What happens when companies don’t use sprint goals?
  • It disempowers teams.
  • It restricts information, understanding and decision-making ability.
  • It reduces flexibility.
  • It leads to technical debt and prioritizing speed over quality.
• [00:44:42] Quick-Fire Questions for Maarten:
  • What is Your Dream with a Deadline? Finishing up his book secure in the knowledge that he has delivered what he intended – and then some!
  • How do you define a good sprint goal? It includes everything in the acronym FOCUS: Fun, Outcome-oriented, Collaborative, Ultimate and Singular.
  • What’s the takeaway he most wants for those who read his book? More joy, a sense of empowerment, flexibility, freedom, less effort that yields more results!

Relevant links:

• "Driving Value with Sprint Goals: Humble Plans, Exceptional Results," by Maarten Dalmijn and Friso Dalmijn.
• More about leadership Strategist Stephen Bungay’s The Three Gaps.
• More about Dave Snowden and the Cynefin Framework.

About Our Guest:

Maarten Dalmijn worked with award-winning start-ups, scale-ups and corporations in various roles before taking the leap as an independent Product Management, Agile and Scrum consultant. By blending the world of Product Management and Agile, Maarten helps teams beat the Feature Factory and uncover better ways of delivering value together.

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Host Jenny Herald’s guest on this episode of Dreams With Deadlines has traveled a fascinating road – one that culminated in the founding The Chief Excellence Officer™️ Academy. Mukom Tamon’s unique platform advocates for frontlines managers by providing them key change management tools and the resources to ensure excellence. He shares his perspectives on the interplay between various methodologies, highlights the power and nuance behind OKRs and deconstructs his hybrid coaching framework – a blend of strategies to turn vision into execution.

Key Things Discussed:

• Mukom’s evolution in understanding how business systems build both efficiency and effectiveness – and books that opened his eyes along the way.
• The interplay between 4DX, OKRs and their impacts on workplace cultures.
• How his SIPPR Canvas enables Mukom’s clients to adopt OKRs seamlessly based on clarity around how teams create, deliver, capture, and measure value.
• Initiating week-by-week forecasts that assess and ultimately activate resources, skills, budget, and tools to reach desired OKR outcomes.
• The difference between exploiting and exploring and how systems thinking can create an essential bridge between the two.

Show Notes

• [00:00:49] OKR Origin Story: Personal Efficiency. How Mukom went from being an individual network engineer to developing credibility and excellence through efficiencies.
• [00:03:02] OKR Origin Story Pt II: Team Efficiency. Coming to understand that management success depends on processes that manage other people’s outcomes.
• [00:05:10] OKR Origin Story Pt III: Building Effectiveness. Establishing a framework to move from strategy to execution with the help of an epiphany after reading "The Four Disciplines of Execution," by Chris McChesney, Sean Covey, Jim Huling. It was Mukom’s bridge to OKRs!
• [00:07:30] From 4DX to OKRs: In response to teams who felt overworked and underappreciated, Mukom led his team co-create a "No Asshole, No Bullshit" OKR to support a healthier, stonger team.
• [00:11:31] The Role of Trust: How psychological safety and its impacts can be measured through behavioral indicators.
• [00:14:40] Elevators of Excellence: Why processes are to teams what habits are to individuals and how they can be leveraged to build trust and improve weaknesses.
• [00:16:44] About OKRs with a Strategy: Why workplace cultures are integral to sustained, successful outcomes.
• [00:18:44] Exploit Versus Explore: Balancing the elements of 4DX and OKRs in the context of immediate needs and long-term workplace cultural development.
• [00:22:50] About Mukom’s SIPPR Canvas: Why silos don’t have to be a given and can be broken down with basic tools of communication and transparency.
• [00:26:30] Expanding an Application: How Mukom’s SIPPR Canvas adapts the Business Model Canvas to encompass team context, purpose and value propositions.
• [00:30:24] OKR Advantage: How having a clearly defined SIPPR canvas sets companies up to implement and adopt OKRs more quickly based on clarity around how teams create, deliver, capture, and measure value.
• [00:32:00] Real-Time Example: Mukom demonstrates his SIPPR canvas by applying inputs and outputs to the Dreams With Deadlines podcast’s goals and operations:  
  • Processes and projects.
  • Short-, medium, and long-term benefits.
  • Sources.
  • Customer success management.
  • Results metrics (such as leads, production, efficiency).
  • Measurable, quantifiable OKRs based on data.
• [00:38:03] Using the SIPPR canvas framework both to exploit current capabilities and explore (and develop prototypes for) future outcomes.
• [00:39:22] About Mukom’s OKR Activation Canvas: How to define narrow objectives (important!) and deploy a quality matrix to measure key results.
• [00:41:40] Cultivating PET: Why it’s critical that managers be judicious and create systems that support Passion, Engagement, Time (and trust) among teams.
• [00:44:25] Key Indicators: About putting in place week-by-week check-ins to forecast (and ultimately activate) resources, skills, budget and tools to reach desired outcomes.
• [00:47:15] An Agile Element: How Mukom’s framework injects systems thinking, enabling fluid processes that adapt to cultural challenges and predict OKR success.
• [00:48:44] Freedom Through Accountability: How Mukom rolled out OKRs to capture, measure and deliver value in the context of a huge telecommunications concern.
• [00:50:48] Strength Out of Failure: Why Mukom is always proud to share his documented failures – the foundation on which he builds demonstrable, repeatable processes, and success!
• [00:53:13] Going Wide: How Mukom documents clear, quantifiable results to bring leadership along when it comes time to expand OKR mandates across the organization.
• [00:55:33] Finding the Nuance: Why it’s so important to align OKR goals with internal systems and cultures, distinguishing between leadership strategy and team execution. 
• [00:59:00] OKRs Are Not Strategy: 
  • Strategy defines where to play and how to win.
  • OKRs clarify the recipe and build the culture to get you there.
• [01:01:47] Quick-Fire Questions for Mukom:
  • What’s your Dream With a Deadline: To enable 10,000 frontline managers to achieve excellence in the next five years, using tools like his OKR Deployment Accelerator.
  • What has been your most significant strategy failure to date? Failing to prioritize OKRs, believing they were applicable to everyone, everywhere all the time.
• Where do you think OKRs are headed? A period of backlash to their popularity and failures in the way they are executed that only gets better with time and education about best practices.

Relevant links:

• "The Four Disciplines of Execution," by Chris McChesney, Jim Huling, Sean Covey
• Measure What Matters," by John Doerr
• Learn what Peter Drucker actually said about "culture eating strategy for breakfast."
• "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change," by Stephen R. Covey
• About "The 13 Behaviors of Trust."
• "High Output Management ," by Andrew Grove
• Understanding Mukom’s SIPPR Canvas
• James Clear’s observation that "You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems."
• About

When it comes to OKRs, nothing predicts success like patience and flexibility. And on this episode of Dreams With Deadlines we find out why from Elie Casamitjana, Co-Founder and CEO of Impactivs and the visionary behind OKRmentors.

A globally recognized expert in all things OKR, he joins Host Jenny Herald to explore the kinds of workplace cultures best suited to implementing this change management framework, especially during challenging economic times. He’s sharing thoughts on fostering engagement and lessons learned about the best predictors for – and deterrents to – successful adoption.

Key Things Discussed:

• The difference between vertical and horizontal approaches when it comes to effective implementation of OKRs across varying geographies and cultures.
• What Elie considers some of the basic prerequisites for companies that want to ensure sustainable change management.
• How rigid, top-down workplace cultures generate resistance to the OKR methodology – while agility and communication are precursors of success.
• Why OKR frameworks can be applied with great results in times of crisis – if leadership understands how to be nimble and bring the whole team along.

Show Notes

• [00:00:30] Origin Story: How Elie first incorporated OKRs to inspire and empower distributed teams all working together to build, launch and manage tech products.
• [00:02:40] What Drives Elie: Why a desire to effect change and equip teams to fulfill their social and environmental missions has been foundational to starting up both Impactivs consulting and OKRmentors’ certified trainings and master classes.
• [00:04:15] Emerging Network: A closer look at the OKR Forum International and other ways in which evangelists are pooling their expertise to train and connect practitioners.
• [00:06:00] The story behind Elie’s book: "La méthode OKR : Objectives & Key Results - le guide pratique (Le management en pratique)," a practical guide to managing OKRs.
• [00:07:40] Vertical v. Horizontal: Why cultural and geographical nuances require understanding and programming that accommodates varying workplace styles. 
• [00:09:30] Prerequisites that set the stage for OKR adoption success:
  • An agile approach that integrates fluid, bottom-up planning and adaptation
  • A clearly defined champion (or team) consistently leading the charge and keeping things on track
  • Upfront understanding that iterations are unavoidable and to be expected
  • Thoughtful, deliberate strategies around team engagement and buy-in
• [00:12:05] Elie’s Take on Common Misconceptions about the OKR Methodology:
  • We’ve already defined our goals. (The process in fact goes far beyond goal-setting or objectives to integrate practically and operationally.)
  • We’re already using more than enough KPIs to measure results. (All indicators are not created the same nor do they all incorporate necessary priorities.)
  • OKRs are set and forget – a glorified “to do” list. (This completely misses the importance of active discussion and the iterative process necessary for success.)
• [00:15:45] Culture & Need: OKR adoption works less well for organizations that are:
  • Managed primarily top-down
  • Committed to rigid long-term planning
  • Resistant to transparency and communication
  • Reluctant to empower teams and give them autonomy
  • Already running smoothly and not interested in implementing transformation
• [00:18:33] Recession Preparedness: How OKRs can be kept relevant and deployed as effective tools for clear, agile decision-making and realignment in fluid crisis situations.
• [00:22:35] Why Recovery (and Staying Nimble) Matters: OKRs are a means, not an end, when it comes to adjusting focus, reinventing value props and maintaining relationships.
• [00:25:43] Elie Shares a Successful OKR Case Study:
  • Significant ROI achieved by helping to define strategic goals and operational variables (like packaging and pricing) at Wecandoo, a French platform supporting a global marketplace for craftspeople and artisans to share their expertise.
• [00:29:36] There Will Be Challenges: How (especially legacy companies) often struggle with change management and why communication problems demand … more communication to clarify, engage, excite, promote empathy and foster long-term buy-in across teams and departments.
• [00:32:48] What Sustained Change Management Absolutely Requires: 
  • An investment of time.
  • Leadership and effective sponsorship.
  • Robust, repetitive, ongoing communication.
  • Patience with the process!
• [00:39:57] Quick-Fire Questions for Elie:
  • What’s your Dream With a Deadline? Inspiring mission-driven leaders committed to making a better, healthier world the mainstream standard.
  • Why are you so passionate about OKRs? They provide a simple framework to take missions from vision into action and reality.
  • What was your greatest strategic execution fail and what did you learn? Change works best when people feel like they are part of the decision-making process – a lesson learned by having unsuccessfully tried the top-down approach!
  • What do you think is the future for OKRs? The more they are integrated across industries and leadership styles, the more the framework will become a seamless part of the organic fabric of workplace cultures.
  • What advice would you have given to your earlier self about the OKR practice? Surround yourself with good support and expertise!
  • What is a book that has largely shaped how you think? It’s a mix of books, podcasts and other media highlighting the stories of entrepreneurs and leaders who have demonstrated resilience and the ability to make change happen! 
  • What’s your current favorite podcast? Guy Raz's "How I Built This."

Relevant links:

• "La méthode OKR : Objectives & Key Results - le guide pratique (Le management en pratique)," by Elie Casamitjana.
• "Powerful: Building a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility," by Patty McCord, who was Chief Talent Officer at Netflix.

About Our Guest:

Elie Casamitjana is a founder, CEO, and OKR Enabler at OKRmentors. He's an expert in OKRs, Strategy, Product Management, and more. Elie is also an author and speaker on entrepreneurship initiatives for sustainable development goals.

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Host Jenny Herald’s guest on this episode of Dreams With Deadlines describes himself as the Chief Cheerleading Officer and OKR Shepherd for his successful digital marketing, interactive and creative agency.

As founder of both Green Parrot and Develtio, a spin-off software company that transforms traditional services into digital products, Szymon Paroszkiewicz has woven OKR initiatives into his company’s culture – with great results! He’s sharing insights about what it looks like to implement new systems and processes within a services-oriented workplace culture.

Key things discussed

• How to juggle objectives in a fluid, client-centric environment.
• Why prioritizing KPI results is less important than staying nimble and true to your company’s big-picture OKR goals.
• What it takes to overcome internal resistance and secure buy-in at every level of the enterprise.
• The importance of making room for failure along the way, iterating OKRs that work for your specific corporate culture and needs.
• Where you’re likely to see OKR value-add – saving time, optimizing resources, fostering communication, and boosting revenue.

Show Notes

• [00:02:30] Origin Story: How Szymon became an OKR convert and ultimately an evangelist at his ad agency and spin-off software company.
• [00:04:10] Going Large: How Szymon initially went with a wholesale, up-and-down the enterprise approach to introducing OKRs – with mixed (if promising) results.
• [00:05:15] A Bespoke Strategy: Why internal OKR goal-setting and incremental adjustments are easier for teams to implement than going strictly by the book.
• [00:08:36] Juggling Key Results: Because the digital marketing world is so dynamic, it’s critical to keep priorities and adaptations fluid, based on shifting metrics and solutions.
• [00:11:48] Customer Satisfaction: What it looks like to map OKRs as client-centered service providers, including: 
  • Staying focused on OKRs as an internal measure of progress and results.
  • Using KPIs, like sales revenue, unique users, or amount of features delivered on time as the measures for project success. 
• [00:14:25] Team Sport: Why it was important to adapt OKR strategies that worked at the board and managerial level in ways that served the development and success of individual contributors by keeping the process team-oriented.
• [00:16:00] Chasing Success: How Szymon positions KPIs like revenue relative to influencing OKRs as a byproduct rather than a hyper-focus dominating overall OKRs. 
• [00:18:35] Thumbs Up: Even though the process can be time-consuming and requires resources, Szymon believes OKRs offer consulting businesses tremendous upsides.
• [00:20:35] Overcoming Resistance: How modeling commitment and flexibility through various iterations in OKR implementation eventually secures buy-in across teams.
• [00:22:49] Long-Term Champions: A look at the shift in dynamics as early adopters sometimes lose interest and early resisters come to enthusiastically embrace the metrics, enhanced communication and other benefits iterative OKRs confer. 
• [00:25:15] Quality Control and What It Looks Like to Measure for Success:
  • Celebrating wins (something Szymon wants to do more frequently)
  • Reevaluating metrics based on how easily they were met
  • Analyzing objectives that failed for clarity and, where necessary, restating
  • Building on what’s working and optimizing through iteration
  • Hosting company-wide post mortems to provide transparency on OKR progress
• [00:27:30] Before & After OKRs – and Their Net Business Impacts:
  • Overall savings through reduction in wasted time, resources and energy
  • Fewer, but more focused and effective initiatives at all levels of the company
  • A clear roadmap that provides employees – especially newer hires – access to the objectives and processes that support corporate success
  • Communication and transparency to support the execution of goals
• [00:30:38] Celebrating Success: About how OKRs have supported the recent integration of a new CRM system – and scores of other value-adds up and down the organization.
• [00:32:47] Quick-Fire Questions for Szymon:
  • What’s Your Dream With a Deadline? To create systems that support a holistic life personally and on a professional level to create platforms to help manage the accelerating impacts of AI on the digital marketing and ad space.
  • What’s Next for Your OKR Program? Not overthinking or unnecessarily tinkering with initiatives that are in place and working; perhaps adding monitoring tools.
  • Advice For Someone Just Starting Out? Making mistakes with OKRs is part of the process and a good thing. So don’t stress or over-worry the process!
  • A Book that Has Shaped the Way You Think?
    • "Measure What Matters," by John Doerr.
    • "The 4-Hour Workweek," by Timothy Ferriss.
  • Can You Share Some of the Mistakes You’ve Made? 
    • Getting a slow start on building proprietary software products and platforms. (But the ball is rolling now …)
    • Being a marketing company that was not doing a good job marketing itself! (But new promotional strategies have now been rolled out …)

Relevant links:

• "Measure What Matters," by John Doerr
• "The 4-Hour Workweek," by Timothy Ferriss

About Our Guest:

Szymon Paroszkiewicz is the Founder & Innovation Director at Green Parrot Digital Marketing, an interactive creative agency that develops and deploys digital marketing strategies. He is also CEO at Develtio, a spin-off software company based in Poland that transforms traditional services into digital products and solutions.

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