Driven by Data: The Podcast

Welcome to another episode of the Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, where hosts Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom unpack Tuesday's episode, share what's been on their minds, and explore the realities of leadership, culture, and capability across the data and AI landscape.

This week, Catherine and Kyle reflect on the conversation with David Krauza, VP of Enterprise Data Strategy, Products & Governance at Comcast, diving deeper into the "arts and crafts" trap that derails data programmes, the discipline of building stakeholder trust before you need it, and what it really takes to drive the bus rather than ride it.

They cover:

• Why David's mandated business school module ended up shaping his outlook on data leadership, and the recurring pattern of guests whose commercial thinking was forged outside a purely technical background
• The "arts and crafts project" analogy David's boss used to describe technically impressive work that never moves the needle, and why naming the difference between process-enjoyment and outcome-focus matters as much in data as it does in any creative pursuit
• Why so much of the data and AI ecosystem gravitates toward exciting new models, tools, and techniques without tying the work back to specific goals, decisions, and KPIs
• David's framing that you have to help people before you need their help, and why the leaders who consistently land the biggest roles are the ones already putting into their networks and communities long before they need anything back
• Catherine's take on why this same principle defines external brand building, and why leaders who wait until they're job hunting to invest in relationships are always playing catch-up against those who started years earlier
• Kyle's view that building relationships with future stakeholders is not a side project for a data leader, it is the job, every bit as much as overseeing platform delivery, governance, and architecture
• Why David reframed the trust gap many data leaders face as a sequencing problem rather than a communication problem, and what that distinction means for how and when leaders should be reaching out
• The "bus riders and bus drivers" analogy at the heart of the episode title, and why organisations hire a data leader precisely because they don't already know the answer, making it the leader's job to shape direction rather than simply execute instructions
• Why being a strong, detailed communicator changes the entire dynamic of a hiring conversation, and how that same skill plays out with stakeholders once someone is in the role
• Catherine's practical tip for building interview and communication confidence using AI tools like ChatGPT or Claude as a low-stakes practice partner, and why consistent repetition beats waiting for natural talent to show up

Kyle's thought of the week: prompted by a message from a CDO at a crossroads in their career, Kyle reflects on why the CDO role isn't disappearing or resurging industry-wide so much as it's becoming entirely dependent on whether a business's leadership views data as a commercial value-creation function or a technology delivery capability. Where it's the latter, that responsibility increasingly sits with the CIO, and Kyle notes the early signs of broader transformation-style mandates emerging that fold CDO, CIO, and Chief AI Officer responsibilities into a single board-level role.

This episode explores what it actually takes to drive value rather than just deliver outputs, the discipline of investing in relationships long before you need them, and why naming the gap between busywork and real impact is often the first step to closing it.

In Episode 11 of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom was joined by David Krauza, VP of Enterprise Data Strategy, Products & Governance at Comcast, where they discuss why strategic clarity and proactive stakeholder engagement are the keys to unlocking genuine business value from data and AI, which includes;

• Why the root cause of failed AI and data programmes is almost never the technology and almost always the absence of a clear business outcome.
• How to tell the difference between an organisation that has genuine strategic clarity and one that just has a compelling PowerPoint.
• Why a strategy without explicit trade-offs, knowing what you are not going to do, is no strategy at all.
• How "arts and crafts" projects quietly drain data programmes of focus, credibility, and commercial impact.
• Why retrofitting goals around work already underway creates a circular dependency that pulls organisations further from real value.
• Why the "bus riders and bus drivers" framework reframes what it means to be an effective data leader.
• Why waiting for perfect conditions before driving impact is one of the most common and costly habits of data leaders.
• How proactively building relationships with CFOs, COOs, and business unit heads before you need them is what separates influence from scrambling.
• Why the trust deficit most data leaders face is a sequencing problem, not a communication problem.
• How starting within your own team or with a single friendly stakeholder is the most practical way to begin building the bus driver muscle.
• Why most CDO mandates are structurally designed to deliver outputs rather than value and how that shapes the type of leader organisations end up hiring.
• How to navigate a broken mandate in practice and why challenging it in the interview room is riskier than it sounds.
• Why the incentive structures within data leadership roles have historically rewarded technical delivery over commercial impact.
• Why the data industry's technical origins created an archetype that is now working against the commercial value organisations actually need.
• How company size and culture determine whether data is treated as a strategic asset or an internal IT service and why that changes everything.
• Why organisations that started their data journey for the wrong reasons often find the perception too deeply embedded to shift from within.

Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.

Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today's data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity.

If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.

At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don't just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They're bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.

From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it's not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.

They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.

Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com.

Welcome to another episode of the Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, where hosts Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom unpack Tuesday's episode, share what's been on their minds, and explore the realities of leadership, culture, and capability across the data and AI landscape.

This week, Catherine and Kyle reflect on the conversation with Sarah Emerson, Group Director of Insight & Business Partnering at Howden, diving deeper into the growing importance of commercial thinking, business partnering, and the role relationships play in driving value from data.

They cover:

• Why Sarah's background in finance and corporate strategy offers a unique perspective on data leadership, and how commercial acumen can become a powerful differentiator for leaders looking to influence organisational outcomes
• The challenge of connecting data strategy to business strategy, why many organisations struggle to articulate strategic priorities clearly, and the practical ways data leaders can uncover them regardless
• Why curiosity about business value shouldn't be reserved for senior leaders, and how analysts at every level can develop a stronger understanding of commercial impact
• The growing importance of business partnering as a dedicated capability, and how organisations can bridge the gap between technical teams and business stakeholders more effectively
• The realities of operating model design, why federated approaches continue to gain traction, and the trade-offs organisations must consider when balancing proximity to the business with cost and complexity
• Sarah's view that self-service analytics has largely failed to deliver on its original promise, and what that means for the future of data enablement and adoption
• Why understanding how business leaders are measured, incentivised, and rewarded can dramatically improve stakeholder engagement and increase adoption of data-led initiatives
• The challenges of discussing performance, incentives, and accountability within organisations, and why trust and relationship-building remain critical leadership skills
• The evolving role of the Chief Data Officer, the increasing consolidation of data responsibilities back into CIO organisations, and what this shift could mean for the future of data leadership
• How AI has accelerated organisational debates around ownership, accountability, and transformation, with many businesses still determining where responsibility ultimately sits
• The emergence of broader transformation and innovation leadership roles that combine data, technology, AI, digital, and business transformation under a single mandate

Kyle's thought of the week: as more organisations place data leadership responsibilities back under the CIO, many of the lessons learned throughout the evolution of the CDO role risk being forgotten. The challenge now is ensuring that value creation, business engagement, and commercial impact remain at the centre of the agenda, regardless of where accountability sits.

This episode explores the realities of commercial leadership in data, the importance of business partnering, and why understanding people, incentives, and organisational dynamics is often just as important as understanding data itself.

In Episode 10 of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom was joined by Sarah Emerson, Group Director of Insight & Business Partnering at Howden, where they discuss why commercial thinking and business partnering are the keys to uncovering business strategy and making data genuinely matter, which includes;

• Why having a non-technical background can give you a competitive edge as a data leader.
• How to infer business strategy when corporate goals are unclear or poorly defined.
• Why Sarah believes commercial KPIs should always take priority over internal data metrics.
• How finding out what a stakeholder is bonused on is the fastest route to their engagement.
• Why federated operating models consistently deliver more commercial value — and why they're expensive.
• Why self-serve analytics will never truly scale, particularly in relationship-driven industries like insurance.
• How conversational AI is poised to succeed where a decade of self-serve dashboards has failed.
• Why inconsistent data definitions across divisions remain the biggest hidden barrier to AI adoption.
• The importance of executive sponsorship in driving data culture — and what to do when you don't have it.
• How financially incentivising sales teams based on data adoption could become the industry's next big shift.
• Why embedded business partners bridge the gap between analytical output and real commercial impact.
• How to uncover business strategy when no one will give you the time or the meeting.
• Why defaulting to technical language is one of the fastest ways a data leader can lose the room.
• Why the business, not just the data team, needs to take accountability for driving data product adoption.
• How embedding analysts within business teams is what drives genuine commercial impact.

Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.

Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today's data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity.

If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.

At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don't just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They're bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.

From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it's not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.

They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.

Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com.

Welcome to another episode of the Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, where hosts Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom unpack Tuesday's episode, share what's been on their minds, and explore the realities of leadership, culture, and capability across the data and AI landscape.

This week, Catherine and Kyle reflect on the conversation with Keith Moody, diving deeper into the realities of value creation, stakeholder management, and why the biggest barriers to success in data leadership are often human rather than technical.

They cover:

• Why Keith's candid perspective stood out, and how some of the most honest conversations happen when leaders are able to speak without the constraints of corporate messaging and organisational politics
• The critical relationship between the CDO and CFO, why finance leaders remain the ultimate validators of value, and how a single nod of approval can determine whether an initiative succeeds or stalls
• Why proving value still remains the defining challenge for data leaders, despite years of discussion around ROI, business outcomes, and commercial impact
• The importance of stakeholder management, trust-building, and relationship development, and why no data leader succeeds without bringing others along on the journey
• How AI can be used as a practical leadership tool, from role-playing difficult stakeholder conversations to helping leaders navigate conflict, influence, and executive communication more effectively
• The emerging ways data and AI leaders are using AI personally, including as a career coach, meeting assistant, productivity partner, and accessibility tool
• Why change management isn't a phase of transformation programmes but the job itself, and how successful leaders recognise that adoption is an ongoing responsibility rather than a project milestone
• The reality that humans remain the most complex variable in any data strategy, and why technical excellence alone will never guarantee success
• How previous experiences, organisational history, and leadership baggage influence every new data leader entering a role, whether they're inheriting success, failure, or scepticism
• Why data leadership increasingly resembles sales, and how influencing decisions often requires changing perceptions, behaviours, and long-held beliefs rather than deploying new technology
• The growing importance of real-world communities, events, and human connection as AI-generated content becomes more prevalent and increasingly difficult to distinguish from human-created work
• Why curiosity and imagination may become the defining skills that separate high-performing leaders in an era where access to technology becomes increasingly democratised

Kyle's thought of the week: whilst many organisations claim they lack a clearly defined business strategy, the reality is that strategic priorities almost always exist somewhere. The responsibility for data leaders is to uncover them, build relationships with the people who own them, and connect their work to those outcomes rather than waiting for perfect documentation to appear.

Catherine's thought of the week: we often have more control than we think. Whether it's improving stakeholder relationships, influencing difficult conversations, or navigating organisational complexity, the leaders who make progress are typically those willing to take ownership, seek support, and proactively shape their environment rather than waiting for conditions to improve.

This episode is a practical discussion on the realities of leading change, proving value, and navigating organisational complexity, whilst exploring how human behaviour, relationships, and influence continue to matter just as much as technology in determining success.

In Episode 9 of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom was joined by Keith Moody, a renowned Data & AI Executive, where they discuss the relationship between the mandate of the CDAO and the results that data and analytics teams continue to deliver, which includes;

• How the absence of a clear value delivery mandate is the root cause of data being treated as a cost centre rather than a business asset.
• Why most CDO mandates are designed based on what organisations think the job is, not what it actually needs to be to generate commercial impact.
• How Keith built four analytics organisations across two companies and delivered over $500 million in incremental annual value.
• Why the data function's reporting line is rarely neutral, and how a once-thriving value-delivery team was reduced to an order-taking service desk.
• How convincing leadership that "no analytics could happen until data was perfect" brought an entire organisation to a standstill.
• Why CDOs who push for commercial accountability in interview processes face a catch-22.
• Why most interview processes focus on capability over delivery expectations leaving the value mandate undefined from day one.
• Why you should actively push for commercial targets.
• Why and how to routinely reframe the mandate once inside an organisation.
• Why the CFO should be the ultimate validator of any value numbers attributed to analytics.
• How reporting directly to the CEO removes prioritisation deadlock entirely.
• Why governance committees are a poor substitute for having a single accountable decision-maker at the top.
• How change management done at the end of a project is the single biggest reason analytics initiatives fail.
• Why blanket data literacy programmes are largely an admission of failure.
• How automating decision-making away from VPs was successfully sold internally.
• Why the AI investment cycle is repeating the exact same hype and collapse pattern seen with data science.
• How FOMO, shareholder pressure, and competitive optics drive organisations to invest in AI capabilities they haven't defined a use case for.
• How the first practical step for any CDO stuck in cost-centre mode is to audit their existing portfolio and how to do so.

Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.

Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today's data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity.

If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.

At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don't just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They're bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.

From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it's not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.

They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.

Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com.

Welcome to another episode of the Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, where host Catherine Dowden-King and, this time, special guest Nirali Patel, unpack Tuesday's episode, share what's been on their minds, and explore the realities of leadership, culture, and capability across the data and AI landscape.

This week, Catherine and Nirali reflect on the conversation with JoAnn Stonier, Lara Izlan and Abbi Agana, diving deeper into what it actually takes to step into a NED role, where your mindset needs to go, and how your patience may be your best asset.

This is a special episode of the Driven by Data Podcast, where we publish our recent NED webinar!

Featuring JoAnn Stonier, Ex-CDO Mastercard, Lara Izlan, Director of Data, ITV and Abbi Agana, CEO, Leathermarket JMB

• Our speakers shared career trajectories into NED roles, emphasising diverse backgrounds (data, media, housing, finance, privacy) and recurring themes: continuous change, giving back, mentorship, and strategic coaching mindset.
• How to break into NED roles: build a board CV, clarify your 'why' and value proposition, leverage networks, observe boards, speak to chairs and current board members, and use targeted communities and programs.
• Differences between nonprofit and for-profit board experience: governance skills transfer but scale and profile matter; large/high-profile nonprofits can be gateways to commercial boards while small trustee roles mainly develop governance experience.
• What boards look for: subject-matter expertise gets you noticed, but financial literacy, generalist judgement, governance and fiduciary responsibility are baseline requirements; c-suite title is not strictly necessary.
• Practical expectations of NED work: time commitment varies (frequently ~20–25 hours/month for active boards), includes prep, board meetings, committee work, possible ad-hoc meetings and retreats, and requires doubling stated prep time as a rule of thumb.
• Common pitfalls and mindset shifts: NEDs must adopt 'noses in, hands out' approach, avoid being a hands-on operator, focus on strategic advisory and support rather than doing the work for exec teams.

Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.

Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today's data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity.

If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.

At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don't just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They're bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.

From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it's not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.

They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.

Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com.

Welcome to another episode of the Data Debrief, the companion show to Driven by Data: The Podcast, where hosts Catherine Dowden-King and Kyle Winterbottom unpack Tuesday's episode, share what's been on their minds, and explore the realities of leadership, culture, and capability across the data and AI landscape.

This week, Catherine and Kyle reflect on the conversation with Edward Chenard, diving deeper into what it actually takes to step outside your lane as a data leader, make yourself redundancy-proof, and shift the conversation from technical delivery to commercial impact.

They cover:

• Why Edward's unattached, portfolio career status meant the episode landed differently, and why the growing constraints around PR and corporate communications are making truly candid guest conversations increasingly rare on podcasts
• How the fractional and advisory model is reshaping what value creation looks like in data leadership, and why organisations often get more commercial clarity from a contracted external than a full-time hire
• Why delivering exactly what the job spec asks of you is, in reality, a risky career strategy for any enterprise data leader or CDO
• The mindset behind becoming redundancy-proof, and why Edward's firsthand experience of layoffs shaped his willingness to step outside his mandate rather than stay safely within it
• The "ask forgiveness rather than permission" approach to data leadership, and why professional arrogance, done with nuance, is often what separates those who reshape mandates from those who get trapped by them
• Why "talk numbers, not tech" should be on a post-it note in every data leader's office, and how reading the room determines whether your message lands or loses the room entirely
• The importance of knowing when to geek out with peers at industry events versus when to translate everything into conversion rates, revenue targets, and business outcomes at the board level
• How skill and will both play a role in whether data leaders break out of their comfort zones — and why going back to what feels familiar is the enemy of executive credibility
• Why sitting at "the children's table" is a mindset problem as much as a structural one, and what it actually takes to earn a seat in the room where the real decisions are made
• The growing challenge of getting guests to speak candidly on record as geopolitics and economic uncertainty push businesses toward risk aversion and comms-approved messaging

Kyle's thought of the week: why perfect conditions don't exist — and why waiting for the mandate to fix itself, the business to catch up, or the industry to finally get it right is a strategy that history has already proven doesn't work. The leaders who succeed are the ones who go and create the conditions themselves.

Catherine's thought of the week: what happened when Orbition ran a NED webinar that LinkedIn declared a dead format — 67 senior leaders from across the UK, US, and Europe later, and the lesson is clear: don't let someone else's data point on what doesn't work override what your own experience and evidence tells you is worth trying.

This episode is a practical, honest unpacking of what it means to go beyond the mandate, not by working harder or taking on more, but by having different conversations, building broader context, and being willing to step into rooms that weren't originally part of the brief.

In Episode 7, of Season 7 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom was joined by Edward Chenard, Fractional Chief Data and Analytics Officer, where they discuss how data leaders can break free from the cost centre trap and drive measurable, quantifiable business value, having personally delivered over $2.5 billion in revenue across Fortune 500s and start-ups alike, which includes;

• How a career in product management at GE laid the foundation for an outcome-first approach to data leadership.
• Why not having a seat at the table is not an excuse and why the biggest commercial wins came from several levels below the C-suite.
• How to read the type of organisation you are in and choose your influence strategy accordingly.
• Why the shift from AI-as-tool to AI-as-strategy matters for how data leaders position themselves now.
• Why data teams are correctly perceived as overheads.
• Building a personalisation platform at Best Buy that generated over $1 billion in revenue.
• Why identifying the metrics the C-suite actually obsess over is the only way to get and keep their attention.
• Why delivering what the job description says is the riskiest career move a data leader can make.
• How a predictive shipping tool built in four months turned a century-old logistics company into a recognised innovator.
• Why agreeing attribution with business stakeholders before the work starts is the only way to get the credit you deserve.
• Why the individual contributor mindset of doing what you are told actively works against data leaders when they step into leadership roles.
• Why data leaders need to think like intrapreneurs, owning a P&L and speaking the language of finance, VCs, and private equity rather than just tech.
• Why a background in international business and theology turned out to be better preparation for data leadership than a technical degree.
• Why philosophy and physics majors often outperform computer science graduates in data roles because thinking through problems without solid facts is the real differentiator.
• Why IT cultures that lead with process are structurally incapable of delivering transformation.
• Why training your team on AI regardless of what the C-suite thinks is a leadership obligation, not insubordination.
• How Edwards frameworks for moving data teams from dashboard builders to decision-makers are publicly available.
• Why it is human as the loop, not human in the loop, and why AI will quickly expose those who have been faking it.

Thanks to our sponsor, Data & AI Literacy Academy.

Data & AI Literacy Academy is leading the way in transforming enterprise workforces with data literacy across the organisation, through a combination of change management and education. In today's data-centric world, being data literate is no longer a luxury, it's a necessity.

If you want successful data product adoption, and to keep driving innovation within your business, you need to start with data & AI literacy first.

At Data & AI Literacy Academy, they don't just teach data skills. They empower individuals and teams to think critically, analyse effectively, and make decisions confidently based on data. They're bridging the gap between business and data teams, so they can all work towards aligned outcomes.

From those taking their first steps in data & AI literacy to seasoned experts looking to fine-tune their skills, our data experts provide tailored classes for every stage. But it's not just learning tracks that they offer. They embed a deep data culture shift through a transformative change management programme.

They take a people-first approach, working closely with your executive team to win the hearts and minds. We know this will drive the company-wide impact that data teams want to achieve.

Get in touch and find out how you can unlock the full potential of data in your organisation. Learn more at www.dl-academy.com.