In this episode, we move away from the traditional interview format and into something more organic — a dialogue between peers, where my classmate Billy Perkins, aka B Ray and I have fun exploring the deeper layers of transformation, consciousness, and becoming.

Together, we discuss liminal spaces, the discomfort of change, and why so many people avoid the darker or uncertain valleys of life. We explore how those in-between spaces, though uncomfortable, are often the very places that initiate growth, self-awareness, and transformation.

This conversation touches on themes from our graduate program in Consciousness and Transformative Studies, weaving together personal insight, big-picture thinking, and reflections on what it means to face ourselves honestly instead of constantly trying to escape discomfort.

If you’ve ever found yourself standing between an old version of yourself and something not yet fully formed, this episode is for you.

Please like and share! I would love to hear your insights.

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