• Radical engagement with the system doesn't mean participating in that system, distractedly resigned, knowing it all hierarchically at arm's length, with arms crossed, superficially, impatiently. Saying take it or leave means taking part in it alertly, with hope and curiosity, horizontally, leaning forward, hands on, digging deep, persisting, and above all, reciprocally and relationally. So that's the core idea of radical engagement and Claude, that's how I experience your way of being in the world.

My conversation with writer, facilitator and consultant and many other hats Adam Kahane, which took place on April 8, 2025, on the very day of the launch of his latest book and Everyday Habits for Transforming Systems, the Catalytic Power of Radical Engagement. Adam talks about seven habits that enable ordinary citizens to become extraordinary agents of transformation. We talked about the process of co creating the book with over 300 individuals, including myself, and how these habits can apply to the arts.

Show notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AI

Action points

• Understand the concept of radical engagement and its role in societal change.
• Identify the seven everyday habits for transforming systems: acting responsibly, relating in three dimensions, looking for what’s unseen, working with cracks, experimenting a way forward, collaborating with unlike others, and persevering and resting.
• Recognize that systems are human-made and can be rebuilt through collective action.
• Explore how artists and individuals can apply these habits in their daily lives to contribute to meaningful change.
• Consider the importance of “acting responsibly” as a foundational habit for engaging with complex systems.

Story Preview

Imagine a world where everyday actions can ripple through complex systems, sparking real change. Adam Kahane shares the journey behind his book, revealing how a frustrating interview led to a deep exploration of how ordinary people can transform the world around them.

Chapter Summary

00:00 Radical Engagement: A New Perspective
01:00 The Birth of a Book
03:30 Understanding Systems Change
06:00 The Collective Nature of Transformation
09:00 The Seven Habits of Transformation
12:00 Art and Systems Change

Featured Quotes

• It’s now completely obvious that these systems were largely built by humans and can be rebuilt by humans… This idea that things are just the way they are and they’ll always be the way they are to me is now obviously not true.
• We might think of systems as these solid, immovable things that you can only change them by using a sledgehammer or dynamite, but that’s not true.
• This idea that things are just the way they are and they’ll always be the way they are to me is now obviously not true. They can be transformed. They are being transformed.
• There’s a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in.” - Leonard Cohen (referenced by Adam Kahane)

Behind the Story

Adam Kahane’s book, ‘Everyday Habits for Transforming Systems,’ emerged from a desire to understand how individuals can contribute to large-scale change. Inspired by a challenging interview and co-created with a community of over 300 people, the book outlines seven practical habits for engaging with complex systems in a meaningful way. The process involved deep exploration, iteration, and a commitment to uncovering the essence of effective systems change.

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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). 

It’s my way to give back.

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish free ‘a calm presence' Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.

Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on July 8, 2025