- I think if we can reimagine what matters to us and pursue that, then perhaps there's a chance that we can stop this truly self-destructive pursuit of infinite more, and in material terms, become happy with enough, without giving up the idea of personal growth and evolution, because I do think that is core to what it is to be human and even just alive. Life is about growth. The history of life on earth is one of ever more complexity and richness. And I think it would be like, I just don't agree with the argument that we have to stop growing. I think that's totally impossible and depressing. And I think that's often how economic arguments about degrowth versus growth get framed and understood is, well, we just have to sacrifice, and the good times are over, and now it's just less of everything for everybody. And I guess it's kind of depressing, but that's just reality. I don't think it needs to be depressing. In fact, I think it has to not be depressing for it to work. I think it has to be exciting. And the way that I can get excited about it is to think, wow, well, let's just tell better stories and let's focus on. Let's have some fun. Like, we can. Let's enjoy our lives and find ways to enjoy them that can be grown. And to me, art is just the best, most wonderful, inexhaustible resource in all of its forms.
Hi listeners,
This is the 3rd last episode of this 5th season of the conscient podcast. I have produced 54 regular episodes since February of this year plus 6 bonus episodes so that’s a lot of content to digest and I invite you to take your time.
It’s been a lot of fun and I thank all of my guests and their collaborators for their generosity. I’m going to take a break after the last episode, e208 with my daughter Clara Schryer. I’m going to take some time to breathe a bit and prepare for season 6 which will start in 2025 on the theme of ‘arts and culture in times of crisis and collapse’.
So, back to episode e206. Meet Arno Kopecky who is, I think, an upbeat realist. Like I did with e196 alice irene whittaker (part 2) - homing, a book review I will read the introduction to the episode at the top of my conversation, with Arno present, but before we jump in to our conversation, I wanted to share a quote from that episode to give you a preview of what’s coming:
- If we look into the past, when I think of what art has done to deal with political problems, for example, or social problems, I think of civil rights and I think of people like Nina Simone, I think of Billie Holiday, I think of Toni Morrison and people and all the so many people like them who produced just incredible music and works of art that absolutely had a message but also sort of transcended that message or found a way. It's so hard to put into words for me how they did what they did. But I feel like there is a whole rich body of work that emanated and proceeded from the atrocity that was slavery and racism and a clear social justice tragedy. But you didn't hear the word social justice in any of Mina Simone's songs or Toni Morrison's books. You know, you heard stories, you heard an outpouring, you felt an emotion, and that moved and transported people, and that operates on such a deep societal level. I feel like it's almost, you know, I think art has a way of seeding social awareness and imagination, and that is almost a precursor or a prerequisite for social change. That then also requires political movements and politicians and civil society and all kinds of the realm of reason and logic and journalism and fact and argument.
So, with no further ado, here is my conversation with Arno, recorded on the morning of September 11, 2024 in Vancouver.
Arno Kopecky’s 2014 book The Oil Man and the Sea: Navigating the Northern Gateway won the 2014 Edna Staebler Award.
Arno is a journalist and writer who lives just down the street from me here in east Vancouver so I invited him to talk, and to do a soundwalk with me about his most recent book, The Environmentalist’s Dilemma: Promise and Peril in an Age of Climate Crisis, published by ECW press.
I was also curious about Arno’s thoughts on art, the ecological crisis and the multiple dilemmas that we face as we work our way through the trappings and self destructive tendencies of modernity, while trying to retain, in a sustainable way, some of its benefits.
There are many great stories and tales in the book, such as the dilemma faced by people on a boat about to fall over Niagara Falls : should they ignore it, should they change directions or simply accept their fate and have a drink?
I recommend the book, in particular the audiobook version narrated by Marvin Kaye, who really brings this set of essays to life.
The Environmentalist’s Dilemma confirms that our planet is dying due to gross misbehaviour, however, Arno also observes that humanity, ironically, is doing better than ever. What's that about?
I enjoyed the book because it provided me with insights into a daily dilemma : how to live well and comfortably in this world while denouncing and rethinking it fundamentally.
I remember listening to the book while biking to Victoria BC and having to stop to catch my breath at a passage in chapter 6 called ‘let’s get drunk and celebrate the future’, where Kopecky suggests that we get drunk and give up, to which I screamed out loud : yes, yes,! I’m in! It was a cathartic moment for me because I sometimes feel like giving up hope and just getting drunk or high or…
It’s actually quite sane to say these things out loud. It allowed a reader like me to break through emotional barriers and find ways to get on with the work of reimagining life on earth, one step at a time.
I was happy to see that the book has been well received as witnessed by some of the positive reviews I read. For example, the Literary Review of Canada wrote that :
- In the author’s hands, the book’s titular dilemma emerges in all its richness, ambiguity, and tension as a foundational opportunity and challenge for contemporary environmentalism.
Well said. I agree. Kopecky questions some of our most ingrained assumptions and biases with journalistic rigour and may I say humour.
The Ormsby Review observed that :
- The value of The Environmentalist’s Dilemma is this hope, that though we are in some ways stuck within a system that limits our options, we can make little acts of rebellion against the system. Our little actions may add to the little actions of millions of others, and may one day change the world.
Now I have to admit that I’ve always believed that the accumulated impact of millions and even billions of small scale local actions can change the world. For example, in the final chapter 13 ‘Every Little Thing’, Kopecky writes about Czech writer and politician Vaclav Havel and how his words and grit helped to ignite a seemingly impossible revolution in Eastern Europe in the 1980s.
Can we do this again at a global scale?
How can we laugh at our predicament and still do the hard work ahead of us?
Fortunately, Arno is sitting right in front of me here in east Vancouver, on this morning of September 11th, 2024 and has kindly agreed to talk with me about all of this.
Arno’s recommendations were:
- Res Rules by Chief Clarence Louie
- Tarun Nayar (modern biology)
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Episode Chapters (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Introduction
Claude welcomes journalist and author Arno Kopecky, setting the stage for a discussion on his latest book, ‘The Environmentalist Dilemma.’ The conversation hints at the complex relationship between modernity and sustainability.
The Environmentalist Dilemma
Kopecky explores the paradox of living well in a world facing environmental destruction, sharing personal reflections on the emotional struggles tied to ecological awareness. The chapter emphasizes the challenges of reconciling modern comforts with environmental concerns.
Hope, Small Actions, and Personal Background
Kopecky discusses the importance of hope through small, individual actions and shares his journey from a middle-class upbringing to becoming an environmental journalist. He highlights pivotal moments that shaped his awareness of environmental issues.
The Housing Crisis and Urban Development
The conversation shifts to the housing crisis in Vancouver, where Kopecky supports urban densification as a potential solution. He acknowledges the complexities of balancing development with environmental concerns.
The Paradox of Progress and Environmental Crisis
Kopecky delves into the paradox of modern life, discussing how improvements in quality of life coincide with unprecedented environmental threats. He articulates the conflict between enjoying modern benefits and confronting ecological degradation.
Reimagining Growth, Happiness, and Art
Kopecky challenges societal obsessions with growth, proposing a new understanding of happiness that values creativity and art. He explores the role of art in fostering resilience and community in times of crisis.
Art and Social Change
Kopecky discusses the historical role of art in addressing social injustices, citing influential figures like Nina Simone and Toni Morrison. He argues that while art can seed social awareness, it must be complemented by political movements for real change.
The Power of Individual Action and Navigating Modern Freedom
Kopecky reflects on the impact of individual actions through the story of Vaclav Havel’s shopkeeper, illustrating the potential for broader societal change. He also discusses the paradox of modern freedom and the need for a collective shift towards sustainability.
Personal Transformation and Literature in Crisis
Kopecky shares a personal narrative about his father’s transformation into an environmental activist, highlighting the potential for change at any stage of life. He also references literature’s response to the ecological crisis, calling for more storytelling on these pressing issues.
Imagining a Sustainable Future and Recommendations
Kopecky concludes with a hopeful vision for a future prioritizing relationships and community over consumption. He shares recommendations for further exploration, encouraging listeners to engage with diverse narratives that challenge conventional perspectives.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
Thanks for your presence. Season 5 of this podcast is now completed. I'll be back with season 6 on art and culture in times of crisis, collapse and renewal (to be confirmed) sometime in 2025.
Background on the conscient podcast
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). It’s my way to give back and be present.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and it's francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' which are 'short, practical essays for those in need of a calm presence’. To subscribe (free of charge) see https://acalmpresence.substack.com. You'll also find a podcast version of each a calm presence posting on Substack or one your favorite podcast player.
Also, please note that a complete transcript of most conscient podcast and balado conscient episodes from season 1 to 5 is available on the web version of this site: https://conscient-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on conscient podcast or my social media: Facebook, X, Instagram or Linkedin.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on November 18, 2024
