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In a break from the (overtly) political, Derek and Danny are joined by The Ringer’s Alan Siegel to talk about his new book Stupid TV: Be More Funny, a cultural history of The Simpsons and how it changed American comedy. They discuss how a bunch of Harvard Lampoon alumni turned the show into art, the role of Fox and Rupert Murdoch in promoting a show that mocked them both, how Bart Simpson once terrified America’s parents (and George H.W. Bush), the show’s postmodern worldview, and the moment The Simpsons went from anti-establishment to establishment.

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