• If we start to pay attention to what we pay attention to then we start to naturally slow down. We disconnect from the urgency, the crisis, and we start to realize that care, and I don't just mean care for one another, although that's a piece of it, but care also for our surroundings, care for our time, care for those nearest to us. That is where it begins. That is valuable work that is not recognized. I think that is what we can do on a day-to-day basis. That over a long term becomes artistic practice and becomes culture.

My conversation withknowledge producer, artist, facilitator and director of the Artists’ Literacies Institute, Andrew Freiband. Our conversation was recorded, via Zoom, on April 18, 2025. My previous conversation with Andrew was on conscient podcast e13 in 2020 called weaving art into action, when we both participants in the Creative Climate Leadership course USA. Five years later, I was happy to discover that Andrew, informed by the work of British artists and writer  Alana Jelinek, continues to weave art into action, notably with through his Systems Thinking for Socially Engaged Artists project, a seminar and dialogic discussion activity that introduces artists to basic concepts of systems science so we fleshed this out and Andrew and also talked about how the arts can be more useful to the near term and long-term future of our species. 

Show notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AI

Action points

• Recognize the value of artists’ unique knowledge and perspectives beyond just their art.
• Understand artists as systems thinkers who can connect various systems, including economic and power systems.
• Challenge the notion that art should not be useful and embrace its potential for practical application.
• Pay attention to what you pay attention to, cultivating care for surroundings, time, and relationships.
• Consider the long-term cultural impact of artistic practices, which can outlast political and social structures.

Story Preview

Imagine a world grappling with mass grief during a pandemic, where traditional rituals are impossible. Discover how artists stepped up to create new ways to mourn and connect, revealing the profound value of art beyond aesthetics.

Chapter Summary

00:00 The Power of Attention
01:01 Revisiting Conversations
02:50 Art in Crisis: The COVID-19 Response
05:15 Creating the Artist’s Grief Deck
07:16 Rethinking the Role of Artists
10:07 Navigating Systems and Agency
12:21 The Intersection of Art and Activism
13:50 The Slow Work of Culture

Featured Quotes

• If we start to pay attention to what we pay attention to, we start to naturally slow down.
• Artists are valuable not for the art, but valuable for what they know and how they know it.
• Artists attention is enormously valuable…maybe the key currency of being an artist that we pay attention.

Behind the Story

During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, disaster relief agencies faced a challenge they weren’t equipped for: mass grief in isolation. Recognizing artists’ historical role in creating rituals, they sought help in developing new tools for mourning. This led to the creation of the Artist’s Grief Deck, a project highlighting the practical and connective power of art.

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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). 

It’s my way to give back.

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish free ‘a calm presence' Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.

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I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on July 8, 2025