This podcast episode from "The Game of Zen" features hosts Scott Berman and Sensei Paul discussing the interrelatedness of professional, personal, and spiritual growth. They explore life teachings from the Buddha and Zen mindfulness practices to enhance "wholehearted work, life, and play." A core theme is the evolution of an individual's moral sense, moving from confusion and loyalty through fairness and justice, eventually reaching higher levels of benevolence and goodness. Drawing on a Daoist quote, they also examine how the "Dao"—being organically integrated with the world's wisdom—can be lost through attachment to external conditions and attempts to control the future, emphasizing the importance of a "mind of not knowing" and embracing life's challenges wholeheartedly rather than avoiding them.

Conversation Timeline

• [02:45] Scott introduces the main topic of the episode, a quote from Paul's newsletter titled, "The End of Folly, Beyond Performative Loyalty, Goodness, and Wisdom." He reads a quote about the evolution of individual moral senses, from confusion to goodness.
• [04:00] Paul expands on the concept of consciousness evolution, explaining the different levels from folly (confusion) to benevolence (well-meaning) and goodness (well-doing).
• [07:15] Scott asks how aging and natural maturity combine with intentional practice to accelerate personal growth. Paul responds by explaining that this progression involves opening oneself up to more responsibility and capacity.
• [11:00] The discussion shifts to the application of these principles in different aspects of life, including career. Paul introduces the levels of "job," "career," and "vocation."
• [13:00] Scott shares a personal story about his daughter's recent promotion, using it as an example of reaching a new "level" of growth.
• [14:40] Scott reads another quote from the newsletter, this one from Laozi about the Dao. The quote outlines a degradation from Dao (wisdom) to goodness, kindness, justice, and ultimately, folly.
• [16:40] Paul provides a deeper explanation of the Daoist quote, noting that it works backward from the highest state of being organically integrated with the universe's unfolding wisdom.
• [19:00] Scott asks how one loses and regains the Dao. Paul explains that it is lost by attaching to stimulation, trying to control the world, or being self-centered. He also introduces the concept of "life living life as life."
• [22:00] The hosts discuss the mind of "not knowing" and how a sense of certainty can be the "beginning of folly." Scott uses the example of his knowledge of the Sixers basketball team, admitting he still can't predict the outcome.
• [26:30] They talk about how a higher level of internal defense helps handle external strangeness. Paul introduces the Zen perspective on overcoming challenges by "going into them," using the quote, "When hot be hot, when cold be cold."
• [30:00] Scott shares his personal practices for overcoming obstacles, including seeking good doctors, maintaining healthy habits, being vulnerable, and being honest with friends and family.
• [34:00] The conversation turns to the comparison between the Buddha's eight-fold path and reaching the Dao. Paul explains the parallel relationship, stating that Zen is considered a combination of Daoism and Buddhism.
• [36:00] The hosts wrap up the episode. Paul teases the new title of his newsletter, "The Zen Shift," and encourages listeners to check it out.
• [37:00] The episode concludes with a final message to the listeners, encouraging them to subscribe and continue their journey of mindful living.

Game of Zen links:

Sam Sokyo is an artist, meditation teacher, recovery coach, and Zen pilgrim on wandering retreat in the North American West -- https://cloudsandwater.substack.com/

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Zen@Work: https://www.zenatwork.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

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