This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Liron Shapira to discuss the case against further AI development, why Effective Altruism doesn’t deserve its reputation, and what is misunderstood about nuclear weapons. Upstream is sponsored by Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHistEvery week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more. Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm

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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj

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We’re hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik’s personal team on other projects he’s incubating. He’s hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: https://eriktorenberg.com.

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LINKS

Pause AI: https://pauseai.info/

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X / TWITTER:

@liron (Liron)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro and Liron's Background

(01:08) Liron's Thoughts on the e/acc Perspective

(03:59) Why Liron Doesn't Want AI to Take Over the World

(06:02) AI and the Future of Humanity

(10:40) AI is An Existential Threat to Humanity

(14:58) On Robin Hanson's Grabby Aliens Theory

(17:22) Sponsor - Brave

(18:20) AI as an Existential Threat: A Debate

(23:01) AI and the Potential for Global Coordination

(27:03) Liron's Reaction on Vitalik Buterin's Perspective on AI and the Future

(31:16) Power Balance in Warfare: Defense vs Offense

(32:20) Nuclear Proliferation in Modern Society

(38:19) Why There's a Need for a Pause in AI Development

(43:57) Is There Evidence of AI Being Bad?

(44:57) Liron On George Hotz's Perspective

(49:17) Timeframe Between Extinction

(50:53) Humans Are Like Housecats Or White Blood Cells

(53:11) The Doomer Argument

(01:00:00) The Role of Effective Altruism in Society

(01:03:12) Wrap

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This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]