"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

This week, we’re featuring discussions with Dario Amodei, Balaji Srinivasan, Marc Andreessen, Michael Levin, and Samo Burja on AGI scaling laws, AI safety, and AI development, exploring themes such as the evolution of AI, economic implications, and philosophical aspects of intelligence. 

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📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️The Cognitive Revolution Podcast

The Cognitive Revolution is a podcast about AI where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock over the next decades. 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk?si=7357ec31ac424043  

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431  

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SPONSORS:

🎙️Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

In this episode of Upstream, Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss how Trump's victory signals a new alliance between right-wing politics and tech industry leaders like Elon Musk while exploring the challenges and opportunities of reforming government institutions through technological innovation. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/e4d3405e-6c8a-42ce-93f1-72caf85da775

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📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️ ‪LivePlayerswithSamoBurja‬ 

Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=707931ed48da4437 

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SPONSORS:

🎙️Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/

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X / TWITTER:

@samoburja

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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In this episode, Erik and Yarvin discuss media, power, and what Elon should do with Twitter. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/b9c0012c-979b-441e-9fb3-6394bef6a7ad

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📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️Moment of Zen

Every week, Erik Torenberg, Dan Romero, Antonio Garcia Martinez and frequent special guests discuss what's happening in technology, business, politics, and beyond.

Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15KYOzvDzAQvqX0z0SpHEJ 

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/moment-of-zen/id1661672738

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SPONSORS:

🎙️Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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LINKS:

Curtis Yarvin's Writing: https://graymirror.substack.com/ 

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X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@curtis_yarvin (Curtis)

@TurpentineMedia

In this episode, Erik sits down with Agnes Callard, a philosopher and essayist who specializes in ancient philosophy, ethics, and Socratic communication. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/cee0a35b-4a10-4c3a-a988-7d9b3d7b7db4 

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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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SPONSORS:

🎙️Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators

Explore the art of high-stakes negotiations through fascinating stories and practical insights from world-renowned dealmakers and diplomats in Dealcraft: Insights from Great Negotiators, hosted by Harvard Business School professor Jim Sebenius.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1NdYGg0SgCwgBNMk7EHnB6  

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dealcraft-insights-from-great-negotiators/id1723095052  

📝 Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

🛍️ Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

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X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg

@AgnesCallard

@turpentinemedia

Richard Hanania joins Erik Torenberg to discuss his upcoming book on elite human capital, the future of American politics, and his evolving views on culture war issues. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/af273f63-9f1b-49e1-8fed-28296237498b 

—

📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️Moment of Zen

Every week, Erik Torenberg, Dan Romero, Antonio Garcia Martinez and frequent special guests discuss what's happening in technology, business, politics, and beyond.

Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15KYOzvDzAQvqX0z0SpHEJ 

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/moment-of-zen/id1661672738

—

SPONSORS:

📝 Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

🛍️ Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

Richard’s newsletter: https://www.richardhanania.com/ 

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X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg

@RichardHanania

@turpentinemedia

Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg tackle the shift in economic research from empirical studies to "big think" theories, critically examine Acemoglu's work on institutions and AI's impact on jobs, and debate the future of economics as a science. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/d1548747-43db-4b71-b0a8-af285d3deafd 

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📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

🎙️ECON 102 W/ NOAH SMITH

Keeping econ entertaining - Noahpinion author Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg break down business news and politics every week.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1696419056 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6q7Gn5lP8TTtBPuV1NJSGs 

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SPONSORS:

🎙️Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators

Explore the art of high-stakes negotiations through fascinating stories and practical insights from world-renowned dealmakers and diplomats in Dealcraft: Insights from Great Negotiators, hosted by Harvard Business School professor Jim Sebenius.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1NdYGg0SgCwgBNMk7EHnB6  

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dealcraft-insights-from-great-negotiators/id1723095052  

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ 

Why Nations Fail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail 

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X / TWITTER:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja explore the global demographic crisis, examining plummeting fertility rates worldwide and their potentially catastrophic implications for humanity's future. For full show notes, visit: https://highlightai.com/share/0d2557ac-2da6-4087-b6b4-b55f326b47fd 

—

📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️ ‪@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja‬ 

Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=707931ed48da4437 

—

SPONSORS:

🎙️ Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators

is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

Subscribe on all platofrms: https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/

Who is Portugal For? by Vasco Queirós: https://www.palladiummag.com/2024/02/23/who-is-portugal-for/

The Long Now Foundation: https://longnow.org/ 

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X / TWITTER:

@eriktorenberg

@samoburja

@turpentinemedia

In this episode, Dr. Michael Levin, Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, joins Nathan Labenz of The Cognitive Revolution Podcast to discuss embodied minds, his research into limb regeneration and collective intelligence, cognitive light cones, and much more. Dr. Levin and the Levin Lab work at the intersection of biology, artificial life, bioengineering, synthetic morphology, and cognitive science.

Nathan just recorded a second episode with Michael Levin and Leo Pio Lopez here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0PsvToTZVtZkdTemV6ntUk?si=85e4614f079a4fcd 

—

📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 

—

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 

🎙️The Cognitive Revolution Podcast

The Cognitive Revolution is a podcast about AI where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock over the next decades. 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk?si=7357ec31ac424043  

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431  

—

SPONSORS:

🎙️ Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators

is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

Subscribe on all platofrms: https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine

📝 Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

The Levin Lab and Dr. Michael Levin’s research: https://drmichaellevin.org/resources/ 

Dr Michael Levin’s blog: https://thoughtforms.life/about/ 

Tufts University Faculty Profile: https://as.tufts.edu/biology/people/faculty/michael-levin 

Michael Levin @ Wyss Institute: https://wyss.harvard.edu/team/associate-faculty/michael-levin-ph-d/ 

Dr. Levin’s Research on Limb Regeneration: https://news.uchicago.edu/how-bioelectricity-could-regrow-limbs-and-organs 

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X / TWITTER:

@labenz (Nathan)

@drmichaellevin (Michael)

@CogRev_Podcast

@TurpentineMedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(04:50) Xenobots, anthrobots and the other creatures created by Mike Levin

(08:50) Bioelectric memory rewriting

(14:09) Sponsors: Dealcraft | Notion

(16:17) The difficulty of conducting simulations, which involve running forward passes to predict and alter electrical patterns

(20:38) The concept of backpropagation and mode switching in AI models

(23:12) Why humans do not regenerate their limbs

(37:10) Sponsor: Squad

(38:19) Learning from small and biological systems onto the concept of possible emergence

(45:01) The criticality of multiple scale questions and would a single scale?

(55:40) The concept of the cognitive light cone

(59:34) Advice on habits of mind and suggestions for inspiration on the AI side

(1:13:19) Mike's suggested directions for the AI developers

(1:23:41) Wrap

Bryan Johnson joins Antonio Garcia Martinez and Erik Torenberg to discuss the deeper spiritual beliefs behind the "Don't Die" movement in the face of AI and the inadequacy of human clock speed. They cover religions as death cults, long-termism vs engineering your own longevity, and Bryan's recent interview on Tucker Carlson.

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🔥 Apply to join over 400 founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/

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SPONSORS:

🎙️ Dealcraft | Insights from Great Negotiators

is the brand new weekly podcast that features interviews with world’s greatest dealmakers and diplomats, including Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, and music industry super-lawyer John Branca, on their most challenging negotiations. Each episode, host Jim Sebenius (Harvard Business School professor and renowned negotiation expert) relates fascinating deal stories and distills useful insights for listeners to apply in their toughest deals and disputes.

Subscribe on all platofrms: https://link.chtbl.com/3CG3TbHY?sid=Turpentine

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

LINKS:

Bryan Johnson on Tucker Carlson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr4E0jEjQMM&t=0s

Bryan Johnson's Blueprint/ Don't Die: https://protocol.bryanjohnson.com/DONT-DIE-by-Zero  

(Book recommendation) The Postmortal by Drew Magary: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10673576-the-postmortal 

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X / TWITTER:

@bryan_johnson (Bryan)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@agm.eth (Antonio)

@moz_podcast (Moment of Zen)

@TurpentineMedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:44) Bryan Johnson's long-term perspective

(02:07) The intersection of technology and longevity

(06:31) The concept of the network state

(07:59) Sponsors: Dealcraft | Notion

(14:38) AI as the steward of knowledge

(18:18) Philosophical implications of AI and longevity

(35:14) The future of AI and human culture

(35:49) Rabbinic rulings and AI

(36:10) Sponsor: Squad

(37:18) Debating the impact of AI on society

(38:40) The speed of change and societal adaptation

(40:28) Existential risks and AI

(43:23) Human resilience in crisis

(44:43) The philosophy of 'Don't Die'

(55:21) The role of birth rates in society

(57:31) Wrap

This week on Upstream, we’re releasing a conversation between Patrick McKenzie and Byrne Hobart where they navigate the compelling terrains of in-app purchases and restaurant economics. They dive into the monetization strategies of video games and the influence of food delivery platforms like DoorDash on pricing and menu designs and explore the bridge between finance, technology, and human behavior through airport currency exchange models and the emerging role of AI in economic data processing.

—

🔥 Apply to join over 400 founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/

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SPONSORS:

📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod 

💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

—

RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:

🎙️Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie

Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH 

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812

🎙️The Riff with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg

Investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6rANlV54GCARLgMOtpkzKt?si=fa34868d46b94584 

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-riff-with-byrne-hobart-and-erik-torenberg/id1716646486 

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LINKS:

Bits About Money: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/ 

The Diff: https://thediff.co/ 

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X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/byrnehobart 

https://twitter.com/patio11 

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod 

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia 

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:05) The economics of in-app purchases

(04:45) Understanding consumer behavior in gaming

(07:52) The role of high spenders in the gaming industry

(20:48) Bespoke software and high-end customization

(24:14) Sponsors: Notion | Squad

(28:04) The evolution of restaurant websites

(35:27) The future of delivery apps and restaurant economics

(43:39) The economics of portion sizes

(45:24) Restaurant groups and concepts

(48:44) The role of certainty in dining

(49:09) Business meals and social signals

(51:18) The evolution of fast food

(55:03) The tech cafeteria phenomenon

(01:02:43) The power of written records

(01:06:31) Exploring ai and memory

(01:13:58) The future of search and ai

(01:25:10) Wrap