In this episode of Econ 102, we're republishing a conversation between Noah Smith and Derek Thompson recorded live on Substack in June. They explore Derek’s shift from The Atlantic to Substack and unpack the “abundance agenda” — a vision for revitalizing American politics through better housing, energy, and innovation policy. Their wide-ranging conversation touches on economic reform, trendspotting, and the evolving media landscape.

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Shopify

Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠⁠⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠⁠⁠.

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The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

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SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

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FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@DKThomp

@eriktorenberg

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Derek Thompson Substack: https://www.derekthompson.org/

Abundance: https://www.amazon.com/Abundance-Progress-Takes-Ezra-Klein/dp/1668023482

Paul Krugman: https://paulkrugman.substack.com/

Matt Yglesias: https://www.slowboring.com/

Kyla Scanlan: https://kyla.substack.com/

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, we're republishing a conversation from last month between Noah Smith and Substack CEO Chris Best, originally streamed on Substack Live. They discuss the future of media in an AI-driven world, including Noah's vision for AI-powered newsletters, the rise of independent voices, and the evolving roles of platforms like TikTok and Twitter. The conversation also explores Substack's potential as a breaking news hub, the broader impact of AI on content creation, shifting U.S.-China relations, and the role of industrial policy in shaping global dynamics.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Shopify

Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠⁠.

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

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SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

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FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@cjgbest

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

The Age of Twitter is finally ending. Can Substack take its place?: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/the-age-of-twitter-is-finally-ending

Eugene Wei's Status as a Service:
https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2019/2/19/status-as-a-service

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss China’s economic strategies, technological advancements, and geopolitical challenges, contrasting them with U.S. policy. They discuss topics from the Hong Kong protests to battery manufacturing and emphasize the need for American industrial policy, education reform, and strategic investment to stay competitive.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Shopify

Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system Shoppay and exclusive AI apps. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at ⁠https://shopify.com/momentofzen⁠.

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Is the U.S. in a "high-level equilibrium trap"?: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/is-the-us-in-a-high-level-equilibrium

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore persistent economic myths and recent developments—from cost disease in services like healthcare and education to stagnating manufacturing productivity, rising higher education costs, drug pricing policies, and student loan debates—while also reflecting on broader intellectual shifts driven by culture wars and foreign aid discussions.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, we're republishing a conversation Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias hosted live on Substack this past Monday. They revisit a wide-ranging conversation on the transformative role of electric motors, batteries, and industrial policy in a politically polarized era, touching on the history of energy, global economic competition, AI regulation, the Inflation Reduction Act, Democratic strategy, and the need to redefine America’s identity amid demographic shifts.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠⁠

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@mattyglesias

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Slow Boring: https://www.slowboring.com/podcast

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg examine global conflicts—especially India-Pakistan tensions—the U.S. military and industrial strategy amid rising threats from China, and the implications of AI and electrification, emphasizing the need for smarter immigration and industrial policies to maintain America's technological and geopolitical edge.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠⁠

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg debunk myths about the American middle class and globalization, analyze historical data on wage stagnation and trade, assess China’s technological rise, and discuss U.S. economic resilience and policy responses to protectionism.

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SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠⁠

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠⁠https://adquick.com/⁠⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Globalization did not hollow out the American middle class: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/globalization-did-not-hollow-out

Noahpinion: ⁠⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

Debunking the Middle Class Hollowing Myth: Noah challenges the common narrative that trade and globalization hollowed out America's middle class.

Manufacturing and Economic Shifts: Noah explains that while manufacturing employment did decline significantly (about 3 million jobs in the 2000s), this didn't correspond with overall middle class decline.

The China Shock Reality: The "5% truth" in the middle class hollowing narrative relates to what economists call the "China Shock" - a period in the 2000s when Chinese imports surged rapidly.

America's Globalization Status: Contrary to popular belief, America has never been highly globalized compared to other countries. Import penetration (imports relative to GDP) is much lower than in countries like China, France or Germany.

Energy Crisis Impact: Noah suggests the oil shocks of 1973 and 1979 had a more significant impact on American manufacturing than trade policies.

Sino-Futurism and China's Future: They discuss "Sino-futurism" - the idea that China represents the technological future. Noah argues this perspective is overblown, noting issues with China's rapid infrastructure development (like the durability of construction), urban planning problems, and the cyclical nature of technological leadership.

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore how nostalgia influences politics and economic policy in the US and China, comparing their consumer cultures, industrial strategies, and the complex effects of tariffs on domestic economies and global relations.

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith

Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg⁠

Apple: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165⁠

–

SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: ⁠https://netsuite.com/102⁠

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit ⁠https://adquick.com/⁠ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

If you think Americans are mad now, just wait a few months: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/if-you-think-americans-are-mad-now

Noahpinion: ⁠https://www.noahpinion.blog/⁠ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

Nostalgia in Politics: They discussed the role of nostalgia in politics, both in the US and China.

Cultural Evolution: US and China: Noah argues China and America are more culturally similar than America and Germany due to both having replaced ancestral cultures with mass consumerism.

Tariffs and Economic Impact: The conversation analyzes Trump's tariff policies and their economic consequences.

US-China-Europe Relations: Europe may increasingly partner with China economically as US relations deteriorate.

Economic Consequences of Trade Policy: Noah argues tariffs don't reindustrialize a country but actually deindustrialize it.

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore topics ranging from the futuristic themes of Black Mirror and the societal impact of technology to a critical analysis of Trump’s de-industrializing tariff policies versus Biden’s growth-focused subsidies, while also examining libertarianism’s influence on American politics and the cultural shifts it may entail.

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith

Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

–

SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Worst-case scenarios and endgames for the Trump economy: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/worst-case-scenarios-and-endgames

In which I review almost every episode of Black Mirror: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/in-which-i-review-almost-every-episode

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ 

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TAKEAWAYS:

This week, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the Trump administration’s trade policies, their impact on U.S. manufacturing and investment, discussing strategies to counter China’s influence through multi-country trade blocs and industrial policy, and examining currency dynamics, economic default risks, and the complexities of global trade.

RECOMMENDED PODCAST:  Tools and Weapons with Brad Smith

Join Microsoft Vice Chair Brad Smith as he explores tech's impact on society with Bill Gates and Satya Nadella sharing untold stories and insights on Microsoft's AI-fueled future.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4bYASdhkHwovdSmU4YAjYg

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tools-and-weapons-with-brad-smith/id1632459165

–

SPONSORS:

NetSuite

More than 41,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud financial system bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE proven platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine learning: https://netsuite.com/102

AdQuick

The easiest way to book out-of-home ads (like billboards, vehicle wraps, and airport displays) the same way you would order an Uber. Ready to get your brand the attention it deserves? Visit https://adquick.com/ today to start reaching your customers in the real world.

–

SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: [email protected]

–

FOLLOW ON X:

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

–

RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ 

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TAKEAWAYS: