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Today’s show:

Jason breaks down the real math behind raising a seed round. Here’s the funnel: contact 150 firms, get 50 first meetings, convert 2o into second meetings, and close 2 term sheets.

PLUS Jason responds to viewer questions about why hardware is no longer a dirty word for investors, how to differentiate your startup from frontier-model companies like OpenAI, even when they’re in your niche. Plus a pitch for “Founder Community College,” and anecdotes from Lon’s European odyssey.

Thanks for the Questions:

Richard Corral: CEO of Quanto: https://quanto.co/

ØnProtons on X: https://x.com/0nProtons

SergeDawg on X: https://x.com/sergedawg

Mahika Golani

Peridot: https://www.tryperidot.com/

Shawn Sully on X: https://x.com/aroogle

Programs and Accelerators Mentioned:

Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

Techstars: https://www.techstars.com/

Antler: https://www.antler.co/

PearX: https://pear.vc/pearx/

Sequoia ARC: https://www.sequoiacap.com/arc/

Kauffman Fellows: https://www.kauffmanfellows.org/

Companies and Startups Referenced:

Whoop: https://www.whoop.com/

Knightscope: https://knightscope.com/

Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/

Cafe X: https://www.cafexapp.com/

Media Referenced:

New Yorker Sam Altman profile: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/sam-altman-may-control-our-future-can-he-be-trusted

Off-Duty Recommendations

Terra Kaffe Demi compact automatic espresso machine: https://www.terrakaffe.com/products/tk-demi

Osteria Pastella (Florence, Italy): https://www.osteriapastella.it/

Timestamps:

0:00 Inside the TWiST private group chat

3:25 How to react when an investor says your "too early."

6:50 The ultimate seed round funnel

8:48 Jason's new Associate in Training program

10:09 Grasshopper Bank - Time is money. Don't waste either. Go to https://grasshopper.bank/twist and get an exclusive $500 cash bonus just for opening an account.

18:28 How have the metrics for early-stage companies changed?

20:20 LinkedIn Jobs - Hire right, the first time. Post your first job and get $100 off towards your job post at https://LinkedIn.com/twist

22:34 TWiST Bounties update

23:43 Competing against frontier labs

30:03 What signals real investor-founder alignment?

30:14 Northwest Registered Agent - Get more when you start your business with Northwest. In 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a real business identity — Learn more at https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twist

36:07 A crash course in Bay Area startup culture

40:15 Automatons-as-a-Service (AaaS)

42:29 Who in Silicon Valley does Jason really not like?

49:59 Museum Etiquette with Lon Harris

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:

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Today’s show:

The "Ryanair of drone delivery" just raised $50 million and plans to bring its technology from Europe to the United States. Manna founder Bobby Healy explains to TWiST how his Dublin-based company completed 300,000 deliveries while some rivals are still publishing blog posts, and why low-cost airline economics will decide who wins the autonomous skies.

Sticking to the drone theme, TWiST welcomed Theseus co-founder Ian Laffey, who called in from Kyiv to tell us about his company’s drone guidance system. It runs off a simple camera and Google Maps. The technology could rewrite the modern, GPS-jammed battlefield, and bring more firepower to smaller nations fending off larger foes.

Guest Links:

Manna https://www.manna.aero

Bobby Healy https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhealy/

Manna funding announcement https://www.manna.aero/blog/series-b

Theseus https://www.theseus.us/

Ian Laffey https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilaffey2/

Most recent Theseus funding announcement https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/17/defense-tech-theseus-landed-y-combinator-the-us-special-forces-and-4-3m-from-a-tweet/

The tweet that kickstarted Theseus: https://x.com/ilaffey2/status/1759353732075294766

Timestamps:

0:00 Bobby Healy of Manna joins TWiST

1:41 How a Manna base works: drones migrate around the city like Waymos

7:18 Battle-hardened in Irish weather: 97% uptime in wind and rain

8:52 Margin-positive economics & the path to $0.20 per delivery

9:25 Northwest Registered Agent: Get more when you start your business with Northwest. In 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a real business identity — Learn more at https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twist

12:32 $50M Series B vs competitors raising $600–800M

19:51 Deel - Founders scale faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit https://deel.com/twist to learn more.

22:53 The peer-to-peer drone future and hyper-local commerce

25:46 Growing from 170 to 570 people and moving manufacturing to Oklahoma

28:43 Ian Laffey of Theseus joins TWIST

29:57 Render: Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all-in-one cloud platform, Render. Go to https://render.com/twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get $500-$100,000 in free credits, depending on your stage and backers.

30:58 Inside Ukraine's drone industry: front-line iteration and free-market speed

33:55 How GPS gets jammed across the spectrum

35:10 Theseus's approach: cameras + satellite maps + ML

37:04 The product: Raspberry Pi, SD card, camera — pretending to be GPS

49:02 Ukraine: 6–8M drones a year. The US: 300K over two years.

51:17 Are US drone primes actually reconstituting the supply chain?

58:22 Y Combinator as a defense tech accelerator

59:40 "Pick an issue and start working as hard as you can towards it"

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X: https://twitter.com/Jason

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

Follow TWiST:

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:

Every.io https://every.io

Shopify https://shopify.com/twist

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Plaud https://Plaud.ai/twist

Today’s show:

Startups like Divergent Technologies are producing components and aircraft for the military through new systems that are better, faster, and cheaper than conventional methods. CEO and co-founder Lukas Czinger stops by TWiST to share the company’s vertically integrated, AI-driven manufacturing platform and how he transitioned from hypercar parts to working directly with the Pentagon on autonomous aircraft.

Plus, 50 million Americans are on antidepressants, and it’s not necessarily the right treatment for all of them. Outro Health co-founders Brandon Goode and Dr. Mark Horowitz share their hyperbolic tapering method, which helps patients get off drugs like Zoloft and Prozac without suffering through traumatic and potentially dangerous side effects.

Guests

Lukas Czinger: https://x.com/lukasczinger

Divergent Technologies: https://www.divergent3d.com

Czinger Vehicles: https://www.czinger.com/

Brandon Goode: https://www.linkedin.com/in/goodebrandon/

Dr. Mark Horowitz: https://x.com/markhoro

Outro Health: https://outro.com

Timestamps:

0:00 Divergent shifted from hypercar development to 3D printing all kinds of components

1:33 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

4:10 How 3D printing has exponentially improved

8:18 Making military components faster, better, and cheaper

9:58 Every.io - For all of your incorporation, banking, payroll, benefits, accounting, taxes or other back-office administration needs, visit https://every.io

11:00 How Divergent caught the Pentagon's attention

19:51 Shopify - Turn those What Ifs into sales with the ecommerce platform powering millions of businesses. Sign up for your $1-per-month trial today at https://shopify.com/twist

25:29 Why Outro Health helps patients taper off SSRIs

30:06 Render - Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all-in-one cloud platform, Render. Go to https://render.com/twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get $500-$100,000 in free credits, depending on your stage and backers.

36:37 Is depression caused by a "chemical imbalance"?

46:37 Understanding the hyperbolic tapering method

58:32 How Outro makes money

1:10:01 Leaked Meta layoff audio

1:13:41 Cloudflare CEO drops "measurer" roles

1:18:16 CrowdHealth - CrowdHealth lets you ditch the bureaucracy with a peer-to-peer funding platform for your healthcare. Get started for $99 per month for your first three months by using the code TWIST at https://JoinCrowdHealth.com/twist.

1:19:17 Why Trump canceled his AI executive order

1:28:08 Polymarket sharps on Russia vs. Ukraine, SpaceX ticker symbol

1:33:34 Luel vs. Kled update: Is this nepotism at work?

1:37:02 Chris Nolan doesn't have a smartphone

1:43:04 Jason's favorite new espresso machine

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:

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Northwest Registered Agent - https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twistPlaud - https://Plaud.ai/twist 

Why raise $200 million if you are already profitable? That’s the question Jason and Alex put to Mercury’s founder and CEO, Immad Akhund, after the entrepreneur raised another massive round for his upstart, technology-friendly bank. TWiST then welcomed Kled founder Avi Patel to discuss the startup he considers a clear ripoff of his own company. Jason gavels in verdicts on all parties involved, including Y Combinator and venture capital firm General Catalyst. The show closes with a news lightning round, including OpenAI’s decision to offer $2 million in token credits to hundreds of startups.

Guest Links:

Mercury https://mercury.com

Mercury funding announcement https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260520511817/en/Mercury-Raises-$200-Million-Series-D-at-$5.2B-Valuation

Immad Akhund on X https://x.com/immad

Kled https://www.kled.ai/

Avi Patel on X https://x.com/avipat_/

Avi’s complaint https://x.com/avipat_/status/2055384102409253056

General Catalyst https://www.generalcatalyst.com/

Y Combinator https://www.ycombinator.com/

Delve https://techcrunch.com/2026/04/23/another-customer-of-troubled-startup-delve-suffered-a-big-security-incident/

Discussion links:

Anthropic’s attack on secondary trading https://techcrunch.com/2026/05/12/anthropic-warns-investors-against-secondary-platforms-offering-access-to-its-shares/

Vanta https://www.vanta.com/twist

Timestamps:

0:00 Welcome to This Week in Startups!

2:14 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

3:27 Immad Akhund (Mercury) joins to discuss $200M raise

6:33 Mercury's origin story and path to $650M run rate

9:53 Northwest Registered Agent - Get more when you start your business with Northwest. In 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a real business identity — Learn more at https://northwestregisteredagent.com/twist

14:23 Stablecoins: where they work, why Mercury won't launch its own

20:13 LinkedIn - Thanks to our partners at LinkedIn! Post your job for free at https://linkedIn.com/twist then promote it to get access to LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant.

22:38 AI agents, and the future of money movement

27:30 Why Mercury raised less this round

30:11 Grasshopper Bank - Time is money. Don't waste either. Go to https://grasshopper.bank/twist and get an exclusive $500 cash bonus just for opening an account.

42:48 Avi Patel (Kled) joins to discuss copycat startups

57:06 Jason's verdict on YC's hacker culture & "appearance of impropriety"

1:17:39 Sam Altman's $2M-in-tokens-for-equity offer to YC founders

1:24:32 NYC hotel housekeepers cross $100K in time under new union contract

1:30:14 Minimum wage, immigration & the case for raising it slowly

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

Follow TWiST:

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:

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Today’s show:

AI is the villain of the 2026 commencement cycle, with business luminaries — including Eric Schmidt — booed for discussing or praising the technology. As students graduate into a job market forcibly reshaped by AI, increasingly negative public polling on the potential impacts of artificial intelligence on society is clearly not missing the mark.

Jason and Alex then discussed The Information’s reporting that Anthropic and OpenAI earn nearly 90% of all startup AI revenue, a Stanford student’s viral essay regarding their time at the university in a post-ChatGPT world, Flock Safety’s impressive (and worrying) web of cameras, and the upcoming Mark II AI bookmark. The episode closes with questions from our live audience!

TWIST Links:

Bounty website https://www.thisweekinstartups.com/bounty

Sidebar bounty challenge https://www.notion.so/launch1/5K-Bounty-Create-Sidebar-App-for-Podcasts-34150ff313d280adbd8ed6204676513c

Annotated.com bounty challenge https://annotated.lovable.app/

Timestamps:

0:00 TWiST All-Stars summer lineup announcement

2:43 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

5:08 Eric Schmidt booed at University of Arizona commencement

8:57 Why Gen Z feels "double-crossed" by AI leaders

10:10 Deel - Founders scale faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit https://deel.com/twist to learn more.

15:22 Is this AI's Vietnam moment? The anti-war parallel

18:04 Theo Baker's NYT essay on Stanford's AI cheating culture

19:24 Sentry - New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST

22:30 Why Jason says everyone should start a company

28:59 Anthropic + OpenAI capture 89% of AI startup revenue

30:17 Vanta: Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://www.vanta.com/twist

31:57 Are token sales a duopoly? Negative gross margins debate

35:17 Risk of building app-layer startups on top of foundation models

38:22 Inside Tracker bounty update: AI sidebar + Annotated.com

41:18 Mark II: the $159 AI bookmark Alex wants

49:31 Flock Safety solves Austin shooting via Manor PD

53:39 DeFlock map and the geography of surveillance in Texas

1:03:42 Noti Gang: AI for filing patents

1:05:45 Noti Gang: Running AI models locally on Mac Studios

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LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

Follow TWiST:

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:

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Self-driving just stopped being a science problem and became an engineering challenge instead. That's the through-line of today’s double-header with the CEOs of two of the most important AV companies in the world — Wayve's Alex Kendall and Waabi's Raquel Urtasun. Between them: ~$2B raised in the last six months, Uber as a partner, Nissan and Volvo as OEMs, and a shared bet that end-to-end AI plus world models beats Waymo's city-by-city map-and-pray approach.

If you want to understand the state of the self-driving industry beyond recent Waymo announcements, this is the episode for you.

Guest Links:

Wayve: wayve.ai/

Waabi: http://waabi.ai/

Alex Kendall https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgkendall/

Raquel Uratsun: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-urtasun-298400139/

Company Links:

Wayve’s GAIA-2 world model: https://wayve.ai/thinking/gaia-2/

Wayve’s 500 city roadshow: https://wayve.ai/thinking/ai-500-roadshow-500-cities/

Wavye’s most recent funding round: https://wayve.ai/press/series-d/

Waybe + Uber: https://wayve.ai/press/wayve-nissan-uber-robotaxi-collaboration/

Waabi closed-loop simulator: https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-world

Waabi + Volvo: https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-and-volvo-autonomous-solutions-partner-to-jointly-develop-and-deploy-autonomous-transportation-solutions

Waabi + Uber: https://www.uberfreight.com/en-US/blog/uber-freight-and-waabi-introduce-industry-first-autonomous-truck-deployment-solution

Timestamps:

0:00 Alex Kendall (Wayve) joins the show

1:19 The contrarian bet on end-to-end AI and world models in 2017

3:05 What is a world model? GAIA-2 and GAIA-3 explained

7:34 Sensor agnosticism: camera, radar, LiDAR and minimum bar for safety

9:56 $1.5B raised — have we cracked self-driving?

10:09 Render: Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all-in-one cloud platform, Render. Go to https://render.com/twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get $500-$100,000 in free credits, depending on your stage and backers.

20:38 Squarespace: Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST

25:03 How consumers will actually pay: bundle, subscription, or free trial

30:15 IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order.

35:59 Raquel Urtasun (Waabi) joins the show

36:25 World models as controllable simulators for physical AI

43:34 One AI brain across trucks, robotaxis, and beyond

47:35 What changed in AI to make 2026 the deployment year

52:28 Why Waabi raised $1B when they're capital-efficient

58:52 Where Waabi is today: Volvo VNL Autonomous, Dallas-Houston, Uber Freight

1:00:50 Per-mile pricing and the Driver-as-a-Service model

1:07:20 Has Uber tried to buy Waabi? "Not for sale"

Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com

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Follow Lon:

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Follow Jason:

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

Follow TWiST:

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This Week In Startups is made possible by:Pilot -⁠ https://Pilot.com/TWIST⁠Grasshopper Bank -⁠ https://Grasshopper.bank/TWIST⁠Quo -⁠ https://Quo.com/TWiST⁠Plaud - ⁠https://Plaud.ai/twist⁠Anthropic just declared every unauthorized secondary sale of its stock "void" — naming Hiive, Forge, Sydecar, Upmarket, and others in a public hit list. Jason and Alex sit down with Jenny Fielding (Everywhere Ventures), Dave McClure (Practical VC), and Sam Lessin (Slow Ventures) to unpack what the AI lab’s move to limit secondary trades means for SPV operators, brokers, and the founders trying to keep control of their cap tables. Plus: a real story of a founder who returned a $15M Series A six months after closing because Claude was going to eat his startup, SaaS moats, and just what does it mean to be rich?Timestamps:0:00 Guest introductions0:48 Anthropic voids unauthorized SPV trades8:41 Accredited investor reform & the SEC sophisticated investor test8:58 Quo (formerly OpenPhone) - Quo gives you a clean, modern way to handle every customer call, text, and thread all in one place. Try it free at https://quo.com/TWiST11:43 Naval's USVC closed-end fund as a workaround16:41 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!17:48 Pro-rata rights battles: when Series A investors push seed investors out19:36 Grasshopper Bank: Time is money. Don't waste either. Go to https://grasshopper.bank/twist and get an exclusive $500 cash bonus just for opening an account.29:13 Pilot: Focus on your product, let Pilot handle your bookkeeping. Pilot provides the most reliable accounting, CFO, and tax services for startups and small businesses. Head to https://pilot.com/twist and get $1,200 off your first year.30:23 Storing wealth in stories vs. cash flows34:19 Cerebras and Fervo Energy IPOs — meaningful liquidity?37:54 Will SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI IPOs redistribute capital or compound it?45:58 The $15M Series A founder who returned the money because of Claude50:01 Should founders pivot or return capital when the world changes?56:43 OpenAI's $6.6B tender and Shruti Gandhi's viral SF cost-of-living tweet1:00:25 Intercom rebrands to Fin: the AI-first late-stage pivotSubscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter:⁠ https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com⁠Check out the TWIST500:⁠ https://www.twist500.com⁠Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple:⁠ https://rb.gy/v19fcp⁠Follow Lon:X:⁠ https://x.com/lons⁠Follow Alex:X:⁠ https://x.com/alex⁠LinkedIn:⁠ ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm⁠Follow Jason:X:⁠ https://twitter.com/Jason⁠LinkedIn:⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis⁠Check out all our partner offers:⁠ https://partners.launch.co/⁠Great TWIST interviews:⁠ Will Guidara,⁠⁠ Eoghan McCabe⁠,⁠ Steve Huffman⁠,⁠ Brian Chesky⁠,⁠ Bob Moesta,⁠⁠ Aaron Levie⁠,⁠ Sophia Amoruso⁠,⁠ Reid Hoffman⁠,⁠ Frank Slootman⁠,⁠ Billy McFarland⁠Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters:⁠ https://substack.com/@calacanis⁠Follow TWiST:Twitter:⁠ https://twitter.com/TWiStartups⁠YouTube:⁠ https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin⁠Instagram:⁠ https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups⁠TikTok:⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups⁠Substack:⁠ https://twistartups.substack.com⁠

The future of AI isn't a smarter chatbot. It's a model that watches your screen, listens to the room, and acts on what it sees. We dug into Thinking Machines' new interaction model, what it means for compute, and the layoff wave that's already here.This week's roundtable: Anastasios Angelopoulos (CEO of Arena, formerly LMArena), Nick Harris (CEO of Lightmatter, photonic computing chips), and Philip Johnston (CEO of StarCloud, building megawatt data centers in space).

Thank you to our exclusive sponsor:

PayPal Open, One Platform for All Business: http://paypalopen.com/

Timestamps:

0:00 Cold open

1:21 Welcome to Episode 13

2:51 Is China closing the AI gap? Arena's data

5:16 Lightmatter and the photonic interconnect bottleneck

9:42 StarCloud 2, Nvidia Space Ruben 1, and orbital data centers

17:24 Thinking Machines' interaction model: what's actually new

28:22 Whisper Flow and the 3-pedal desk setup

33:48 Real-time desktop and camera awareness as the real unlock

40:25 Why this 100x's compute demand

42:43 The polarization of compute and $10M personal data centers

49:25 The layoff wave: Cloudflare, PayPal, Coinbase, Upwork

54:48 The 10x gap between AI-first and non-AI-first employees

59:52 Unlimited agency and the abundance future

1:00:46 Anthropic's Project Luna runs a retail store

1:03:45 Decoupling labor from value creation

1:05:03 P(doom) round

🔗 Guests:

Anastasios Angelopoulos, Arena: https://arena.ai | @ML_Angelopolous

Nick Harris, Lightmatter: https://lightmatter.co

Philip Johnston, StarCloud: https://starcloud.com | @philipjohnston

🔗 Referenced in this episode:

Thinking Machines, Introducing Interaction Models: https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/interaction-models/

LMArena leaderboard: https://lmarena.ai

Lightmatter: https://lightmatter.co

Starcloud: https://www.starcloud.com

TechCrunch, Cloudflare says AI made 1,100 jobs obsolete: https://techcrunch.com/2026/05/08/cloudflare-says-ai-made-1100-jobs-obsolete-even-as-revenue-hit-a-record-high/

Fast Company, Tech layoffs this week due to AI (Cloudflare, PayPal, Coinbase, Upwork): https://www.fastcompany.com/91538995/tech-layoffs-due-to-ai-this-week-cloudflare-paypal-coinbase-upwork

Bloomberg, South Korea floats citizen dividend from AI profits: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2026-05-12/korea-s-massive-ai-boom-triggers-call-for-tech-tax-roiling-market

PYMNTS, Inside a retail store run entirely by AI (Andon Labs / Luna): https://www.pymnts.com/artificial-intelligence-2/2026/inside-a-retail-store-run-entirely-by-ai/

Wispr Flow (voice-to-text tool Jason uses): https://wisprflow.ai

Fermi Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

🔗 Subscribe and follow:

Newsletter and all platforms: https://thisweekinai.ai

#ThisWeekInAI #AI #ThinkingMachines #Lightmatter #StarCloud #Arena #Anthropic #ProjectLuna #AIcompute #AIlayoffs #Superintelligence

Today’s show:

Cerebras just jacked its IPO range to $150–$160 a share, OpenAI bought a consulting firm to seed its $4 billion private-equity joint venture, and a startup in Oakland is electrolyzing magnesium out of seawater for one-third the going price. Alex Wilhelm and Jason Calacanis go deep with AI21 co-CEO Ori Goshen on why model orchestration, not bigger LLMs, will decide who wins enterprise AI.

The crew also covered the decline of OpenClaw, TikTok's new £3.99 ad-free tier, more entries in the live-show sidebar bounty, and had time for a little Off Duty before signing off.

Guest Links:

Ori Goshen on LinkedIn

AI21

Alex Grant on LinkedIn

Magrathea Metals

Timestamps:

0:00 Ori Goshen, CEO of AI21 joins the show

1:20 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

5:14 Why enterprises care about token cost optimization

6:01 Jamba as open-weight; Maestro as proprietary orchestration

10:08 LinkedIn Jobs - Hire right, the first time. Post your first job and get $100 off towards your job post at https://LinkedIn.com/twist

12:56 AI21 customer roster: FNAC, US tech giants, Israeli companies

19:01 Alex Grant, CEO of Magrathea Metals joins to discuss pulling magnesium from seawater

20:03 Live video of the Oakland pilot electrolyzer

20:10 Deel - Founders scale faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit https://deel.com/twist to learn more.

22:01 Magnesium as a "gateway metal" for aluminum, defense, aerospace

23:20 TETRA joint venture & the Evergreen Project in Arkansas

23:38 Series A close, JV economics: $3,000/ton vs. $7,000/ton market

29:10 Sidebar bounty update: Glass Sidebar (Oliver Choy) demo

30:47 Netsuite - Get the free business guide Demystifying AI at https://netsuite.com/twist

31:47 Sidebar bounty update: Sidecast (Patrick Hughes) demo

36:09 Reducing scope to "real-time fact checker only" for final round

37:24 Ro.co: Ro's insurance checker will let you know if your coverage includes GLP-1s for FREE. Go to https://Ro.co/Twist for your free insurance check.

39:07 Cerebras IPO: $115–$125 → $150–$160 per share

44:19 Will OpenAI's compute commitments to Cerebras actually get funded?

49:19 Fervo Energy IPO — venture-backed geothermal company going public

49:40 OpenAI Deployment Company + Tomoro acquisition explained

53:51 Anthropic's parallel $1.5B PE joint venture with Blackstone & Goldman

56:05 Why Jason thinks these PE spinouts are convoluted financial engineering

56:40 OpenClaw's decline + competition from Cowork, Perplexity, Grok

1:04:22 TikTok's £3.99 ad-free subscription launches in the UK

1:09:09 Knicks sweep 76ers — Jason's playoff predictions

1:11:24 Off-duty: "There Is No Antimemetics Division" by qntm

1:13:25 Off-duty: Fall of Civilizations podcast by Paul Cooper

1:16:37 States' rights, federalism, housing supply & closing thoughts

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Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

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Banks don’t want to hand over their data to AI labs. So David Moscatelli built a $250,000 box that runs AI on-prem. He already has 1,600 pre-orders. On today’s episode of TWiST, Jason and Alex sit down with the Go Abacus founder and Yanez's Jose Caldera to unpack how regulated industries are getting AI without the cloud, why Bittensor subnet 54 is incentivizing miners to attack identity systems, and why Cloudflare just laid off 20% of its workforce in the same week it raised guidance. The show closes with Jason explaining what it means to build an AI-first startup, and how workers can derisk their future employment!

Guest Links:

Go Abacus

Go1 direct link

David Moscatelli on LinkedIn

Yanez

Bittensor Subnet 54 on TAOstats

Jose Caldera on LinkedIn

LAUNCH Links:

Founder University

Founder University Japan application portal

News Links:

Cloudflare lays off 20% of its staff

Coinbase cuts 14% of its staff

Block post on how it is rebuilding its company

Block’s earnings, including its raised guidance

Anthropic’s massive upcoming funding round

WHOOP’s new on-demand clinicians

Stripe Atlas’s growth

Timestamps:

0:00 Introduction: Jason in Brooklyn, Knicks playoffs

2:30 Go Abacus joins: AI infrastructure for regulated industries

3:25 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!

4:00 The Go1: 2,000-user on-prem AI appliance

7:04 Pricing the Go1: How far does $250,000 go?

7:24 1,600 orders and the hardware delivery challenge

10:14 Sentry - New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST

20:23 Every.io - For all of your incorporation, banking, payroll, benefits, accounting, taxes or other back-office administration needs, visit https://every.io

27:22 Chicago tech scene and in-office culture

30:09 IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order.

35:11 Yanez joins: How to prove personhood and uniqueness

38:32 How biometric capture and bio-keys work

40:05 Agent delegation: proving humans authorized AI agents

44:19 Bittensor Subnet 54 and incentivizing adversarial miners

47:11 Founder University Japan Cohort 2 applications open

49:15 Tech layoffs: Cloudflare cuts 20%, Coinbase cuts 14%, Block raises guidance

1:02:14 Anthropic's $50B round at $900B pre-money

1:04:22 WHOOP adds on-demand clinicians

1:06:42 Federalism, state-level regulation, and AI policy

Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com

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LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/

Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

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