Phil n Sarah take the podcast to UVU where they find a nice view and a table to do their thing at. Sarah interviews Phil about the necessity of thinking inside the box in order to learn a discipline and then coming out of the box.  She also asks him about his college days and adds some of her thoughts about how college started out as a revolutionary space and eventually became standardized. Sarah shares her anger about what Phil calls a breast milking station. Apparently one can't breast feed out in the open in those parts.