Insurance. It’s something we all pay for and hope we never need. But behind the scenes, it’s a world of evolving risks, high-stakes litigation, and technology that’s changing faster than the laws that govern it.

In this episode of the Emerging Litigation Podcast, I interview Jeremy Moseley, partner at Spencer Fane in Denver, Colorado. Jeremy defends mass and class actions involving insurance regulations, healthcare, consumer products, and more. He’s seen firsthand how automation, AI, and climate change are presenting new risks — and he’s here to share what’s coming next.

We talk about how technology that makes claims handling faster and easier is now fueling lawsuits. How customized policies, while great for consumers, can leave dangerous gaps. And how juries today are awarding damages that would’ve seemed outrageous just a few years ago.

Jeremy explains “social inflation” and the rise of thermonuclear verdicts—why $20 million doesn’t sound like much anymore, and how insurers can push back with reality-based defense strategies. He also dives into climate change, shifting storm patterns, and how unprepared infrastructure are creating new underwriting challenges.

And yes, we talk about Dr. Evil, and Ecclesiastes, and my horse Jefferson from a dude ranch vacation in Colorado.

This episode is a warning, a guide, and a conversation about the future of insurance litigation. Jeremy’s insights are sharp, timely, and grounded in real-world experience. If you work in insurance, law, or just want to understand how emerging risks are reshaping the world around us, this one’s for you.

Thanks to Jeremy Moseley for joining us.

Tom Hagy
Host, The Emerging Litigation Podcast

💬 Have thoughts or want to contribute to future episodes? Email: [email protected]

What are the implications of recent court decisions for artificial intelligence systems trained on copyrighted materials?

In this episode I get to speak with two repeat veteran guests of the podcast about two important cases dealing with fair use analysis in the context of large language model training. 

Here are a couple of highlights: 

• Courts found AI training to be "transformative use" because the process changes the works significantly through tokenization and processing.
• Judges distinguished between legally obtained training data (dismissed claims) and pirated training data (allowed claims to proceed).
• Both judges signaled that if plaintiffs had focused on AI outputs reproducing substantial portions of their works, outcomes might have been different.
• The transformative nature of AI training was deemed significant enough to qualify as fair use even for commercial enterprises
• One judge noted that if copyrighted works are essential for training models worth "billions, if not trillions," developers must find ways to compensate copyright holders.

About Our Guests

Ryan Phelan and Tiffany Gehrke are recognized thought leaders in emerging technology law and artificial intelligence. Both are partners at Marshall, Gerstein & Borun LLP and returning guests on the Emerging Litigation Podcast.

Ryan has written extensively on digital innovation, including intellectual property issues related to cutting-edge AI systems. He is the moderator of PatentNext, a blog focused on patent and IP law for next-generation technologies. We based our discussion on his excellent article about copyright law meeting AI, titled U.S. District Court Issues First Decisions on AI Model Development and Copyright Fair Use. Ryan holds a J.D. from Northwestern Pritzker School of Law and an MBA from Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management.

Tiffany is known for her expertise in intellectual property and technology policy, and for advocating balanced, ethical approaches to AI regulation. She chairs Marshall Gerstein’s Trademarks and Copyrights Practice. Before entering law, she worked as a software engineer. Tiffany earned her J.D. from Loyola University Chicago School of Law.

Together, they bring deep practical insight and academic rigor to the evolving legal landscape surrounding artificial intelligence. 

I appreciate them returning to the podcast and sharing what they know!

Tom Hagy
Host
Emerging Litigation Pocast

You say you want a deposition?

Plaintiff attorneys often request and are sometimes successful in deposing corporate CEOs and other chief executives. But there are many times when defense attorneys want to spare the C-suite from what can be high-risk and time-consuming exercises for someone whose knowledge or expertise may have little or nothing to do with the facts and issues in a case. 

In this episode, I talk with Rachel M. Lary, a litigator with a nationwide practice at Lightfoot, Franklin & White, about the Apex Doctrine—a legal principle that protects high-ranking executives from being deposed unless certain conditions are met. Rachel explains how courts weigh an executive’s actual knowledge of a case, the availability of less intrusive discovery, and how judges have ruled on the doctrine around the country. (Her firm's technologist, Sam McAllister, created an interactive map showing state-by-state treatment of the Apex Doctrine. We interviewed Sam in 2023.)

Listen in and you will see why Fortune 500 companies rely on Rachel to represent them as national litigation counsel. I appreciate her sharing her insights on the podcast. I also appreciate that Rachel agreed to give a video tour of her remarkably neat office, which is what she thought I requested. I have a degree in communication, and maybe I should brush up. Rachel is both knowledgeable and a good sport. 

As always, if you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
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If you have comments or want to get involved in one of our projects, drop me a note at [email protected]. 

How do you know if your witness is credible? Is your evidence compelling—or confusing? And will a jury really care about those bright orange socks?

In this episode of the Emerging Litigation Podcast, trial attorney and focus group consultant Elizabeth Larrick joins me to explain how remote focus groups are changing the way lawyers prepare for trial. Elizabeth shares what she’s learned from conducting over 1,000 Zoom focus groups—insights on testing case narratives, assessing witness credibility, refining trial strategy, and even improving jury selection.

You’ll hear how quick, targeted virtual sessions help identify blind spots, shape more persuasive stories, and prevent courtroom surprises—while also giving lawyers valuable practice engaging with real people before trial.

Plus: What happens when jurors prefer the disheveled guy over the polished one? Why you should probably rethink those flashy shoes? And why, sometimes, less (facial expression) is more.

Thanks to Elizabeth for sharing her expertise—and her sharp eye for socks.

If you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
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As political forces target Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion programs, companies reassessing their DEI strategies must tread carefully—because, while the landscape has shifted, employment discrimination law has not.

Joining me on the Emerging Litigation Podcast is employment law attorney Patice L. Holland, a Principal at WoodsRogers in Roanoke, Va. Patice shares with me what companies need to know as they reassess their DEI initiatives in light of President Trump's recent executive orders and increasing public and political pressure. 

Patice explains that while the administration has moved to eliminate disparate impact liability and deprioritize federal enforcement, core legal protections under Title VII and state laws remain fully intact. Employers—especially federal contractors—face complex new certification requirements and exposure to potential False Claims Act liability, while private businesses must weigh operational risk, employee morale, and public perception in their decisions. 

We also examine the ripple effects across corporate America—from Costco and Apple, which continue to be invested in DEI, to Target and Amazon, which scaled back initiatives and faced backlash. Patice suggests practical considerations for navigating any changes, emphasizing clear communication, leadership buy-in, and careful risk assessment. 

Listen in as she explains the real impact and power of the executive orders, how obligations differ for government contractors and private companies, the legal and strategic risks of altering DEI policies, and the real-world business consequences of staying the course—or stepping back.

💬 Have thoughts or want to contribute to future episodes? Email: [email protected]

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
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Southern California’s wildfire season has turned into a year-round crisis, and with it comes a surge in litigation. On this episode of the Emerging Litigation Podcast, we explore the aftermath of the devastating January 2025 wildfires, including the high-profile Eaton and Palisades fires, and the complex legal battles now unfolding.

My guest, Ed Diab, is a founding partner of Diab Chambers LLP, a boutique law firm with a sharp focus on wildfire litigation. Ed and his team have worked alongside national firm Baron & Budd to represent over 100 public entities in wildfire cases dating back to 2015. His deep experience in this area, combined with an insider’s perspective on utility liability, makes him uniquely qualified to discuss the challenges and strategies involved in these high-stakes cases.

As of early 2025, more than 100 cases have been filed against utilities like Southern California Edison, with public entities, individuals, and insurance carriers seeking damages for widespread destruction. In this conversation, Ed breaks down the causes of these fires, the legal strategies in play, and the uphill battle plaintiffs face when going up against major power utilities.

Ed walks us through California’s unique inverse condemnation doctrine, negligence claims, and how utility companies defend themselves—challenging liability, infrastructure management, and fire prevention efforts. We also discuss the challenges of evidence preservation, particularly when transmission towers remain critical to the state’s power grid.

From the legal wrangling over the Eaton Fire to the complexities of the Palisades rekindle, Ed shares the latest developments and what litigators should expect moving forward. His insight into the coordination between local and national firms and how they’ve successfully pursued wildfire claims makes this a must-listen episode for anyone following disaster-related litigation.

🎧 Tune in for insights on:
✅ Common causes of wildfire litigation and liability determination
✅ How plaintiffs build cases against utilities through expert investigations
✅ Strategic use of inverse condemnation and negligence claims
✅ Key defenses raised by utilities and how plaintiffs respond
✅ The current status of major wildfire cases and emerging litigation trends

If you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
Home Page
LinkedIn

Whopping jury verdicts from 2024 illustrate why trial teams sometimes include appellate counsel, because including them -- even as you prepare to defend a high stakes case at trial -- can improve your chances on appeal should a jury hand you a half-billion-dollar verdict.

But what functions do appellate attorneys perform at trial? Are they listening for errors or proactively guiding trial counsel? Do they ever address the court or sit quietly at the defense table or maybe in the back row?

To answer these questions and more is Jeffrey P. Doss, a partner in the White-Collar Criminal Defense & Corporate Investigations practice group at Lightfoot, Franklin & White LLC, a civil defense litigation firm. Jeff has served as appellate counsel for an automobile manufacturer for 10 years. In this role, he has supported trial teams pre-trial, at trial, and post-verdict through appeal. Jeff has developed and implemented strategies to address a range of legal issues, from jury selection errors to expert exclusions, evidentiary objections, and post-verdict challenges to punitive damages awards.

Thanks to Jeff for taking the time to share his insights on this, and for entertaining my curiosity about the efficacy of beards in the practice of law.

If you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
Home Page
LinkedIn

The horrific wildfires unleashing carnage in Southern California underscore the need for reliable insurance protection both for businesses and homeowners.

As of Jan. 16, 2025, these wildfires have scorched more than 60 square miles, claimed at least 25 lives, and left 26 people missing. With more than 12,000 structures destroyed and tens of thousands displaced, the economic impact is estimated between $135 billion and $150 billion.  

On a new episode of the Emerging Litigation Podcast, we discuss the types of damages and losses typically covered under homeowner and commercial property insurance policies, policy limitations, navigating the claims process, and business interruption coverage. We also discuss a Jan. 10, 2025, ruling out of the Northern District of California in Bottega v. National Surety which held in a business interruption case that whether smoke damage caused the suspension of operations at the policyholders’ businesses is a genuine issue of fact.

My guests are all from the long-time insurance recovery law firm of Anderson Kill. Dennis Artese is a shareholder in the New York office and is chair of the firm’s Climate Change and Disaster Recovery practice group. Marshall Gilinsky is a shareholder the firm’s Boston office and practices in the firm’s Insurance Recovery and Commercial Litigation groups, as well as its Restaurant, Retail & Hospitality Group. Joshua Gold is a shareholder in the New York office. He chairs the Cyber Insurance Recovery Group and co-chairs the Marine Cargo Insurance Group. He also handles directors and officers insurance and business income/property insurance matters.

If you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
Home Page
LinkedIn

NFTs – or non-fungible tokens – have taken the digital world by storm – or perhaps just a downloadable picture of a storm – promising to revolutionize not only the way we perceive, protect, purchase, and own digital assets, but how we might even buy a house or other assets in the real world. 

These unique digital certificates, recorded on a blockchain, exploded onto the scene in post-pandemic 2021 with record-breaking sales and widespread media coverage. One of the most amazing examples is "The Merge" by the anonymous artist Pak, which sold for a staggering $91.8 million. 

The Bored Ape Yacht Club is another fascinating story. This collection of 10,000 unique, cartoonish apes, each with its own distinct features, became incredibly popular in 2021. Owning a Bored Ape would become a status symbol in the NFT community.

However, the meteoric rise of NFTs was followed by a significant downturn, leading many to question the future of NFTs. While the initial hype and astronomical prices may have subsided, the underlying technology and potential of NFTs remain promising.

For insights into this evolving landscape, listen to my conversation with Cameron Pick of Marshall Gerstein. An experienced expert in intellectual property law with a focus on emerging technologies, Cameron advises clients on a range of legal issues related to NFTs, blockchain, and cryptocurrency. He holds a J.D. from Duke University School of Law and a B.S. with honors in electrical engineering from the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.

This podcast is the audio companion to the Journal on Emerging Issues in Litigation. The Journal is a collaborative project between HB Litigation Conferences and the Fastcase legal research family, which includes Full Court Press, Law Street Media, and Docket Alarm. The podcast itself is a joint effort between HB and our friends at Law Street Media. If you have comments or wish to participate in one our projects please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
Home Page
LinkedIn

As if the rocketing evolution of technology isn't presenting enough challenges to inventors under patent law, the Supreme Court has done its part, too.

I just finished reading Graham Moore's novel "The Last Days of Night," where titans of the late 1800s and early 1990s Thomas Edison, George Westinghouse, and Nikola Tesla "clashed with sparks flying over AC and DC electrical power systems," a corny description suggested by my AI editor.

Having read the book, it was fun to speak with modern day attorney Ryan N. Phelan of modern day Marshall Gerstein. Listen as this seasoned patent attorney walks me through: 

• The intricate landscape of patent eligibility in the United States. 
• Twin patent law decisions from the Supreme Court -- Mayo and Alice (the name of a singer-songwriter group if I ever heard one, or a sandwich shop).
• The proposed Patent Eligibility Restoration Act and how -- if passed -- it could unlock new opportunities for innovation amid the challenges posed by judicial exceptions. 

*******

This podcast is the audio companion to the Journal of Emerging Issues in Litigation. The Journal is a collaborative project between HB Litigation, a brand of Critical Legal Content (a custom legal content service for law firms and service providers) and the vLex Fastcase legal research family, which includes Full Court Press, Law Street Media, and Docket Alarm.

If you have comments, ideas, or wish to participate, please drop me a note at [email protected].

Tom Hagy
Litigation Enthusiast and
Host of the Emerging Litigation Podcast
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